Bills 13, Eagles 31 postgame thread

[Rocket94]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

Myself personally, Its a new day at New Era field and with it comes perhaps a better perspective on the loss Sunday against the Eagles. 

 

Its obvious looking back now that the weather played an important role making it impossibe to use the loss as a gauge on how good or bad of a football team Buffalo really is at this point in the season IMO. I'm not trying to make excuses and I realize both teams played in the same bad conditions. I just think Buffalo is built different then Philly making it a bad matchup in windy, slippery weather and it showed. Despite the score its not like Buffalo was blown out, at least not in my opinion. The Eagles are a playoff contender and it would not surprise me to see them go deep into the playoffs. 

 

The Buffalo Bills are still learning how to win and far from playing their best game.

 

Yes, I'm a big homer which always plays a part my opinion...

The Bills were outplayed and outclassed by a still potent Eagles team. The Eagles exposed the Bills flaws, and so did Miami.

[Figster]

8 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

The Bills were outplayed and outclassed by a still potent Eagles team. The Eagles exposed the Bills flaws, and so did Miami.

True Rocket94, exactly what other teams game plan for every week. 

 

I still think Buffalo is a better team then what showed up on Sunday against the Eagles. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Figster

[Rocket94]

Just now, Figster said:

True Rocket94, exactly what other teams game plan for every week. 

 

I still think Buffalo is a better team then what showed on Sunday against the Eagles. 

The Bills are getting better. I love the Bills. There is just an obvious need for more talent...that DL especially.

[Figster]

Just now, Rocket94 said:

The Bills are getting better. I love the Bills. There is just an obvious need for more talent...that DL especially.

I have to agree with you.

 

One more good draft...

[Rocket94]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Go after the middle of the defense.

The Bills need to work on it soon! Like real soon! There is nothing to deny or rationalize away.

[row_33]

25 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

The Bills were outplayed and outclassed by a still potent Eagles team. The Eagles exposed the Bills flaws, and so did Miami.

 

at best they are heading for a loss on WC weekend

 

a good future ahead though

 

 

[PolishPrince]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

And the production is about the same with a little more passing yards but a lot more turnovers.

 

We drafted Allen to be the QB to take our offense to the next step, not the be what we already have been.

We aren't any better now than we were in 2017 with Taylor and Dennison.  

Taylor was also throwing a prime McCoy, Watkins, Woods... Goodwin who has had success in 49ers. 

[Rocket94]

Just now, row_33 said:

 

at best they are heading for a loss on WC weekend

 

a good future ahead though

 

 

Yes...probably. These last two games made me take a harder look.

[row_33]

Just now, Rocket94 said:

Yes...probably. These last two games made me take a harder look.

 

a playoff game seems likely now,

 

i'm always super cautious and have a pile of tomatoes to throw....

 

if i rip into them at 6-10, i will not do so at 5-2,

 

should be 6-2 this time next week.

 

 

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Main takeaway for me from this game....

 

Our offense is in serious trouble

[row_33]

Just now, Canadian Bills Fan said:

Main takeaway for me from this game....

 

Our offense is in serious trouble

 

gonna be hard not to end up with 10 wins, aside from cratering injuries

 

they can do this with a lot of major obvious holes this season

 

maybe get to the AFC title game as well...

 

 

[Rocket94]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

a playoff game seems likely now,

 

i'm always super cautious and have a pile of tomatoes to throw....

 

if i rip into them at 6-10, i will not do so at 5-2,

 

should be 6-2 this time next week.

 

 

They should rebound. Man, they better!

3 minutes ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

Main takeaway for me from this game....

 

Our offense is in serious trouble

The DL as well.

[Bob in STL]

9 hours ago, arcane said:

Tyrod: 22-20

Allen: 10-8

 

 

So you want to go back to Tyrod?   Tyrod was a 4 year vet and he had a more to work with. 

 

Allen was a rookie that started in week #2 of his career, with the worst OL in the league and no weapons, and he finished 5-6.  He is  5--2 this year.   He already has more 4th Quarter comebacks this year than Tyrod has in his career. 

 

 

[Rocket94]

30 minutes ago, Figster said:

I have to agree with you.

 

One more good draft...

I love the Bills and I don't even like talking this way. McDermott is doing a great job with what he has.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Dude makes passes on the regular tyrod wouldn't even TRY.

Is that the bar we’re setting? He sometimes completes passes our last bad QB wouldn’t even attempt? 

[row_33]

8 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

I love the Bills and I don't even like talking this way. McDermott is doing a great job with what he has.

 

i love them too,

 

but they make it a severe burden 75% of the seasons....

 

[Bangarang]

11 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

So you want to go back to Tyrod?   Tyrod was a 4 year vet and he had a more to work with. 

 

Allen was a rookie that started in week #2 of his career, with the worst OL in the league and no weapons, and he finished 5-6.  He is  5--2 this year.   He already has more 4th Quarter comebacks this year than Tyrod has in his career. 

 

 

Here we go again with the 4th quarter comeback stuff. It’s literally all people have to cling to. 
 

Tyrod had a horrible defense supporting him. Allen has a significant advantage over him in that regard.

 

Our team averages 17ppg in Allen’s 4th quarter comeback games (including the ones from last year). So basically, our defense plays great keeping us in the game and our offense finally wakes up. Putting the amount of 4th quarter comebacks on display is wonderful until you actually look behind the curtain and see that our offense is still a problem even in those games. 

[Bob in STL]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Here we go again with the 4th quarter comeback stuff. It’s literally all people have to cling to. 
 

Tyrod had a horrible defense supporting him. Allen has a significant advantage over him in that regard.

 

Our team averages 17ppg in Allen’s 4th quarter comeback games (including the ones from last year). So basically, our defense plays great keeping us in the game and our offense finally wakes up. Putting the amount of 4th quarter comebacks on display is wonderful until you actually look behind the curtain and see that our offense is still a problem even in those games. 

 

 

Preferring Tyrod over Allen, or any of the top 5 QBs in that draft class, says a lot about your argument, and none of it is good. 

 

[Dan]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Why does Daboll deserve all the blame and not the QB executing it?  Allen has been holding the ball too long, very inaccurate of passes over 19 yards (we drafted him for his big arm) and has been careless with the football.  Allen has his moments but doesn't string these together enough which is why we aren't scoring.  Yeah we got a great redzone offense but we just never get there enough and we don't make big plays in the passing game to score outside of the 20.  

 

The production output is about the same.  

 

I think Daboll has adjusted.  Our offense changed to go short more often as opposed to last year.  Allen has been good from 1-19 yards.  But now anything above that, he's been terrible.  There was a stat in another thread were Gore has faced the 2nd most 8 man boxes.  Defensive Coordinators still don't respect our passing game, they're selling out for the run.

Defenses have figured out the 2019 Bills Offense.... Its all short throws and runs.  So they're, more and more, stacking the LOS and daring Allen to beat them deep.  And he's not been capable of that. Perhaps more concerning is that we're hardly even trying to throw deep.  Its really only a couple times each game.  Is that on Allen or Daboll that they're not throwing deep?  It's certainly on Allen that he's not getting the ball there.  But, like all things you need more attempts to get into the rhythm.   Either way the Bills need to stretch the field more or this season is going to get ugly.

 

 

 

[Beast]

What is Allen's rush per attempt this year as compared to last? It certainly seems as if the opposition is taking his running ability away a lot more this year than last and making him play QB.

[Bangarang]

19 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

 

 

Preferring Tyrod over Allen, or any of the top 5 QBs in that draft class, says a lot about your argument, and none of it is good. 

 

I never said such a thing

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

And the production is about the same with a little more passing yards but a lot more turnovers.

 

We drafted Allen to be the QB to take our offense to the next step, not the be what we already have been.

We aren't any better now than we were in 2017 with Taylor and Dennison.  

 

You might want to take a look at 3rd down completion/1st down percentage.  I can't dig up the stats right now but that's really where you should see a clear difference in Allen's favor.

[Franco_92]

44 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

So you want to go back to Tyrod?   Tyrod was a 4 year vet and he had a more to work with. 

 

Allen was a rookie that started in week #2 of his career, with the worst OL in the league and no weapons, and he finished 5-6.  He is  5--2 this year.   He already has more 4th Quarter comebacks this year than Tyrod has in his career. 

 

 

I don't want to go back to Tyrod at all, and like Allen. I just answered the question

 

Tyrod was 5-2 at one point in his last year here too

Edited October 28, 2019 by arcane

[Rocket94]

43 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

i love them too,

 

but they make it a severe burden 75% of the seasons....

 

Yes...very trying at times. I guess we don't realize how much they mean to us...Monday mornings can be rough after games like this.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Rocket94

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

You might want to take a look at 3rd down completion/1st down percentage.  I can't dig up the stats right now but that's really where you should see a clear difference in Allen's favor.

Are you referring to our 3rd down conversion percentage? If so, you’d be very wrong.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bangarang

[BillsVet]

19 minutes ago, Dan said:

Defenses have figured out the 2019 Bills Offense.... Its all short throws and runs.  So they're, more and more, stacking the LOS and daring Allen to beat them deep.  And he's not been capable of that. Perhaps more concerning is that we're hardly even trying to throw deep.  Its really only a couple times each game.  Is that on Allen or Daboll that they're not throwing deep?  It's certainly on Allen that he's not getting the ball there.  But, like all things you need more attempts to get into the rhythm.   Either way the Bills need to stretch the field more or this season is going to get ugly.

 

It's reminiscent of 2011.  The Bills were 5-2 after beating Washington in Toronto and then played NYJ at home.  That year, Chan had succeeded throwing short to mask Fitz's weak arm and it largely worked...until Rex and the Jets showed up.  Rex had the defense interrupt those routes and Fitz had to throw intermediate and long passes which he lacked the arm strength and accuracy to complete. 

 

There are plenty of folks saying this is only one game, as if no one saw the successful gameplan Philadelphia employed yesterday.  As for 2011, the Bills offense was never the same as the first half of the season and they skidded to a 6-10 finish.  

 

McD and his staff had better acclimate quick to counter what we saw yesterday and versus Miami.  Because even the lesser teams are going to run hard up the middle until it doesn't work anymore.

[row_33]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's reminiscent of 2011.  The Bills were 5-2 after beating Washington in Toronto and then played NYJ at home.  That year, Chan had succeeded throwing short to mask Fitz's weak arm and it largely worked...until Rex and the Jets showed up.  Rex had the defense interrupt those routes and Fitz had to throw intermediate and long passes which he lacked the arm strength and accuracy to complete. 

 

There are plenty of folks saying this is only one game, as if no one saw the successful gameplan Philadelphia employed yesterday.  As for 2011, the Bills offense was never the same as the first half of the season and they skidded to a 6-10 finish.  

 

McD and his staff had better acclimate quick to counter what we saw yesterday and versus Miami.  Because even the lesser teams are going to run hard up the middle until it doesn't work anymore.

 

That Skins team was the least prepared to take the field in my 5 decades of watching the NFL, that was so pitiful.  But the show must go on.

 

Can't outrightly bash a 5-2 team bobsledding towards 6-2....

[BigPappy]

2 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

gotta stop Allan running for his life after half a second dropping back....

 

 

Agreed. He needs to get better at pocket presents. He had a quite a few plays were he had a while to throw and just to off when there had been a receiver coming open. That said, i'm not sure that his running is the biggest issue at this point though. Feliciano is killing the offenses progress. He constantly is getting flagged for false starts, unnecessary roughness, holding...etc. He kills drives before they even start. Next, they need to stop starting Gore. He is old as F*** and should not be a full time RB. We definitely need another big receiver as well. The D will be fine. They just got gassed at the end of the game from playing to much.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

21 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

Agreed. He needs to get better at pocket presents. He had a quite a few plays were he had a while to throw and just to off when there had been a receiver coming open. That said, i'm not sure that his running is the biggest issue at this point though. Feliciano is killing the offenses progress. He constantly is getting flagged for false starts, unnecessary roughness, holding...etc. He kills drives before they even start. Next, they need to stop starting Gore. He is old as F*** and should not be a full time RB. We definitely need another big receiver as well. The D will be fine. They just got gassed at the end of the game from playing to much.

 

Lets not throw out blanket statements.  If you look at some highlights Josh DOES have pocket presence.  He will step up into the pocket and he can escape from the pocket.

 

Edit - Name 1 QB that has not been sacked from his blind side / Edit 

 

 

Again I must remind people that Jim Schwartz is NOT some hack.   

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Dan]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

It's reminiscent of 2011.  The Bills were 5-2 after beating Washington in Toronto and then played NYJ at home.  That year, Chan had succeeded throwing short to mask Fitz's weak arm and it largely worked...until Rex and the Jets showed up.  Rex had the defense interrupt those routes and Fitz had to throw intermediate and long passes which he lacked the arm strength and accuracy to complete. 

 

There are plenty of folks saying this is only one game, as if no one saw the successful gameplan Philadelphia employed yesterday.  As for 2011, the Bills offense was never the same as the first half of the season and they skidded to a 6-10 finish.  

 

McD and his staff had better acclimate quick to counter what we saw yesterday and versus Miami.  Because even the lesser teams are going to run hard up the middle until it doesn't work anymore.

I agree... I'm not ready to push the panic button.  But, the last 2 weeks are the beginning of a trend.  And the coaching staff is showing little ability to adapt or correct the problems on this team.  

 

There are are some glaring deficiencies in players.   But there's also glaring deficiencies in the coaching and game planning.  The fate of this season comes down to whether they can patch those holes sooner rather than later. 

[dakrider]

2 hours ago, Dan said:

Defenses have figured out the 2019 Bills Offense.... Its all short throws and runs.  So they're, more and more, stacking the LOS and daring Allen to beat them deep.  And he's not been capable of that. Perhaps more concerning is that we're hardly even trying to throw deep.  Its really only a couple times each game.  Is that on Allen or Daboll that they're not throwing deep?  It's certainly on Allen that he's not getting the ball there.  But, like all things you need more attempts to get into the rhythm.   Either way the Bills need to stretch the field more or this season is going to get ugly.

 

 

 

I think Allen can hit the 20-30 yard passes as well as anyone.  He hasn't done well with the receiver running down the field in stride but hasn't had many of those plays either. However he can throw a 30 yard laser to a guy anywhere on the field.  But the Bills aren't calling those plays very often and instead are simply going for the short pass.  Even on plays the receiver going downfield is mostly to try and clear it underneath.   But overall I agree with the premise the Bills offense is fairly predictable and their intentionally not trying to stretch the field.  Bills and Allen are going to have to take more risks on offense and with that is going to include some mistakes as well.  I sort of think the Bills coaching staff is intentionally holding Allen back to be more controlled, and then they'll greadually release him to make more plays downfield but in a more controlled manner than last year. 

[Coach Tuesday]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Are you referring to our 3rd down conversion percentage? If so, you’d be very wrong.

 

 

 

Really?  I remember Tyrod's being almost historically bad.  Anyone have access to the data?

[Bangarang]

51 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Really?  I remember Tyrod's being almost historically bad.  Anyone have access to the data?

Allen

2019: 34% - 23rd

2018: 31% - 30th (He did not play the entire year obviously)

 

Tyrod

2017: 41% - 9th

2016: 40% - 13th

2015: 37% - 19th

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2016-02-08

 

 

Again, this is 3rd down conversion percentage as an offense. If that’s what you meant. 
 

[Boatdrinks]

4 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

What is Allen's rush per attempt this year as compared to last? It certainly seems as if the opposition is taking his running ability away a lot more this year than last and making him play QB.

I think it’s a concerted effort by the team to have him play more from the pocket, more than anything defenses are doing. Don’t you think defenses were trying to make a rookie “ play QB” last season ? A QB that plays the style that Allen played last year is likely to have a shorter NFL career. They want him throwing from the pocket, not taking off on long runs. 

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Really?  I remember Tyrod's being almost historically bad.  Anyone have access to the data?

 

If you're looking for QB performance on 3rd down specifically...

 

Allen

2019: 30/50, 383 yards, 60% completion, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 94 QB rating. 10 rushes for 46 yards and 0 TDs

2018: 40/93, 508 yards, 46% completion, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 49 QB rating. 25 rushes for 122 yards and 0 TDs

 

Tyrod

2017: 87/131, 907 yards, 66% completion, 6 TDs, 3 INTs, 92 QB rating. 34 rushes for 214 yards and 1 rushing TD.

2016: 66/118, 828 yards, 58% completion, 6 TDs, 2 INTs, 87 QB rating. 23 rushes for 134 yards and 2 rushing TDs.

2015: 61/85, 820 yards, 71% completion,  4 TDs, 1 INT, 117 QB rating. 21 rushes for 137 yards and 1 rushing TD.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

 

If you're looking for QB performance on 3rd down specifically...

 

Allen

2019: 30/50, 383 yards, 60% completion, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 94 QB rating. 10 rushes for 46 yards and 0 TDs

2018: 40/93, 508 yards, 46% completion, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 49 QB rating. 25 rushes for 122 yards and 0 TDs

 

Tyrod

2017: 87/131, 907 yards, 66% completion, 6 TDs, 3 INTs, 92 QB rating. 34 rushes for 214 yards and 1 rushing TD.

2016: 66/118, 828 yards, 58% completion, 6 TDs, 2 INTs, 87 QB rating. 23 rushes for 134 yards and 2 rushing TDs.

2015: 61/85, 820 yards, 71% completion,  4 TDs, 1 INT, 117 QB rating. 21 rushes for 137 yards and 1 rushing TD.

 

Huh.  For some reason I have it in my head that on third and long specifically, Tyrod's #s were almost historically bad, and Allen's are significantly better.  I'll do my best to dig up the stats.

[Beast]

27 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I think it’s a concerted effort by the team to have him play more from the pocket, more than anything defenses are doing. Don’t you think defenses were trying to make a rookie “ play QB” last season ? A QB that plays the style that Allen played last year is likely to have a shorter NFL career. They want him throwing from the pocket, not taking off on long runs. 

 

Yeah, in fact I do believe that DC's are forcing Allen into being a thrower and trying to take his running game away. I believe it is more than obvious to most that the results show just that.

[KollegeStudnet]

Every team has a back to reality game. The Eagles were the hungrier team. They were embarrassed from the Dallas game. Hope this team feels the same and beats the Skins.  

[Boatdrinks]

7 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

Yeah, in fact I do believe that DC's are forcing Allen into being a thrower and trying to take his running game away. I believe it is more than obvious to most that the results show just that.

So you ( and thereby you believe the Bills ) want Allen running all over the place like last season ? Just that defenses are taking away what the Bills are trying to do with Allen ? That’s a very interesting take, I will give you that. I recall that the consensus was that kind of quarterbacking won’t work in the NFL and the QB doing so will probably have their career shortened due to injury. I’d bet most NFL observers would suggest the Bills want Allen to be a pocket QB, and the results show just that.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Boatdrinks

[Beast]

9 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

So you ( and thereby you believe the Bills ) want Allen running all over the place like last season ? Just that defenses are taking away what the Bills are trying to do with Allen ? That’s a very interesting take, I will give you that. I recall that the consensus was that kind of quarterbacking won’t work in the NFL and the QB doing so will probably have their career shortened due to injury. I’d bet most NFL observers would suggest the Bills want Allen to be a pocket QB, and the results show just that.

 

OK, let me explain it sloooooooowwwwwwly.

 

Last year, Allen did a lot of damage to defenses with his running ability.  DC's  seeing that, and not having a reason to fear Allen and his passing game, have taken away his running game away. That leading to low scoring outputs.

 

It's actually pretty simple. Allen has had very few uncontested runs like he had last year. l

Edited October 28, 2019 by Binghamton Beast