CincyBillsFan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, jrober38 said: NFL kickers are collectively 45 of 64 on field goals from 40 to 49 yards this year, or 70%. I assume that the percentages are lower for 49 yard field goals vs 42 yard field goals. With the number of upgrades we made, I don't understand how Allen hasn't been able to improve his passer efficiency. He was at 68 last year in QB Rating, and he's still under 70 right now. I was hoping that number would jump up to around 90, which is still about 20th best in the league. The pass game has miles to go before it's just average by NFL standards. I'm not sure how likely that is to happen based off what we've seen so far. He has improved his completion percentage. And we can't judge the rest until later in the season or better yet until after the season. For crying out loud are you really going to make the final judgement on Allen and the offensive improvements we made right after playing NE? Talk about skewing the numbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, london_bills said: You know what. The deep interceptions and throwing back against the body don't bother me so much. The throwing against the body has worked a few times for big gains. What bothers me is not seeing open receivers (brown and Jones on the 3rd down he missed to beasley). They may have been touchdowns and that's the difference that we expect to see in the future right? Basic intelligence would suggest that New England would think we would go to Beasley on 3rd down. Daboll and Dorsey need to keep drilling it into Allen’s head that he should look at those shorter routes, maybe even make those his first read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 44 minutes ago, jrober38 said: People here usually refuse to look at things objectively. It's all emotional hope that what you see with your own eyes will get better, and it's not as bad as it seems. People are projecting what they want to be reality. Can you keep your horse? to yourself ? You’re the one that’s been consistently wrong on all football takes for years and you’re gonna talk about “people here” We should bring Tyrod back to make you whole again ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 It's not a matter of losing faith just a matter of the performance has not been good enough. Not that he can't grow and learn but he should be better at this point. His performance is worse than EJ was through week 4 of season 2 and EJ was benched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, dayman said: It's not a matter of losing faith just a matter of the performance has not been good enough. Not that he can't grow and learn but he should be better at this point. His performance is worse than EJ was through week 4 of season 2 and EJ was benched. Wrongly. EJ NEVER should have been benched at that stage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Wrongly. EJ NEVER should have been benched at that stage. Would be interested to see a comparison of stats between Allen and Manuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, london_bills said: Would be interested to see a comparison of stats between Allen and Manuel. Oh, it's here. Just look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: Oh, it's here. Just look. In this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, london_bills said: Would be interested to see a comparison of stats between Allen and Manuel. QB A: 248 - 451, 2,977 yards, 6.6 yard per attempt, 13 tds, 18 interceptions, 13 fumbles, 8-7 recordQB B: 256 - 437, 2,810 yards, 6.4 yards per attempt, 16 TDs, 12 interceptions, 7 fumbles, 6-8 recordQB A is Josh Allen to date (through game 4 of season 2). QB B is EJ Manuel through game 4 of his second season. Reminder, EJ Manuel was benched 4 games into his second season. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, london_bills said: You know what. The deep interceptions and throwing back against the body don't bother me so much. The throwing against the body has worked a few times for big gains. What bothers me is not seeing open receivers (brown and Jones on the 3rd down he missed to beasley). They may have been touchdowns and that's the difference that we expect to see in the future right? Basic intelligence would suggest that New England would think we would go to Beasley on 3rd down. I think this is a valid point. I would agree with you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, london_bills said: In this thread? 1 minute ago, london_bills said: In this thread? No, on this board. But be aware the stats ARE incomplete, and don't account for Allen's contributed rush TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, dayman said: QB A: 248 - 451, 2,977 yards, 6.6 yard per attempt, 13 tds, 18 interceptions, 13 fumbles, 8-7 recordQB B: 256 - 437, 2,810 yards, 6.4 yards per attempt, 16 TDs, 12 interceptions, 7 fumbles, 6-8 recordQB A is Josh Allen to date (through game 4 of season 2). QB B is EJ Manuel through game 4 of his second season. Reminder, EJ Manuel was benched 4 games into his second season. Hm. Allen definitely looks the better quarterback to me off paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, london_bills said: You know what. The deep interceptions and throwing back against the body don't bother me so much. The throwing against the body has worked a few times for big gains. What bothers me is not seeing open receivers (brown and Jones on the 3rd down he missed to beasley). They may have been touchdowns and that's the difference that we expect to see in the future right? Basic intelligence would suggest that New England would think we would go to Beasley on 3rd down. yesterday was the first game where he missed some blatantly open guys. even with that he could have had the chance to win it at the end and just ay have done so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, london_bills said: Hm. Allen definitely looks the better quarterback to me off paper The stats are what they are...I think everyone would agree that despite the stats Allen does show more promise with the explosive plays and willingness to go for it and having won us a few games with clutch performance. So that's miles above EJ ... on the same token the stats don't mean nothing and they certainly tell truth on the INTs which are terrible. Edited September 30, 2019 by dayman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 40 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I think this is an excuse because those guys aren't exactly throwing to house hold names. I also don't see them making stupid decisions with the football. Allen puts the ball in harms way too often. Too many fumbles and too many interceptions. The Bills rebuilt the offensive line, rebuild the running back depth chart, rebuilt the receiver depth chart, and the results in the pass game haven't been much better. That's a big concern in my eyes. First of all, they don't have to be household names. They just have to be willing to come back to the ball and contest catches, not just let the defender make the INT. And the reasons these QBs aren't seen as making stupid decisions is because they have receivers that do the above. Brown and Beasley are better WRs, but the rest of the receiving corps are the same from a year ago. The oline is excelling in the running game, but not in pass protection. You are correct in that Allen does put the ball into harm's way too often, but I think part of the reason he does that is he trusts his receivers and his abilities too much. He needs to play smarter. On that point we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: I don't know.... practice? We have a pretty good defense that could recreate that situation pretty easily. Josh has a go-to reaction when pressured: backpedal and run to his right to find a receiver along the sideline. He can't keep being so predictable. So yeah, a little practice working on doing things differently wouldn't hurt. Another benefit of doing it in practice rather than in-game? No film. They can't hit you in practice and game speed and practice speed is vastly different. So I don't think practice effectively recreates game conditions in order to help with his decision making. Also Josh can still as a starter practice under those conditions. The film is already out on him and he isn’t going to show a dramatic improvement in practice due to the conditions not being similar enough to an actual game. If this was footwork or some other aspect of his game that he needs tremendous work on then I would understand the idea that he might be better served to be benched for a game. But I don’t see decision making improving in a significant way without getting live games in. I also don’t buy this idea that Barkley somehow gives the team a better chance to win. Josh has his issues but Barkley is a limited QB in his own right and the team spending snaps on Barkley is kind of wasting starting snaps that could simply go to Josh. I honestly think that Josh gives the team as good if not a better chance to win. Josh adds a dynamic with his legs and his power arm that Barkley simply doesn’t. Yes Allen might make some mistakes that Barkley might not but I would rather see what I have in Josh and take his positives than to just start Barkely for no other reason than to satisfy fans frustrations over one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, jethro_tull said: yesterday was the first game where he missed some blatantly open guys. even with that he could have had the chance to win it at the end and just ay have done so. The first few plays of the pats game bothered me. The wide throw to gore in the flats for example. It showed me that he was tight, totally understandable but I want him to hit that throw. Put New England on the back foot straight away. Jests game he did that straight away and was great. unlucky I thought to not start the season perfect and with a TD. Sometimes he seems like the stage doesn't phase him, sometimes he seems like the stage phases him. Which is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 28 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Wrongly. EJ NEVER should have been benched at that stage. EJ absolutely sucked and it was painfully obvious. He wasn’t going to magically become what people hoped he would be simply because he was given more time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Bangarang said: EJ absolutely sucked and it was painfully obvious. He wasn’t going to magically become what people hoped he would be simply because he was given more time. Maybe not. But the alternative was Kyle "I Give Up" Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: Maybe not. But the alternative was Kyle "I Give Up" Orton. It was easier watching us suck with Orton than EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 33 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Wrongly. EJ NEVER should have been benched at that stage. HAHAHAHA NO OMG NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Bangarang said: It was easier watching us suck with Orton than EJ. Was it though? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Josh came out amped up too much. Kind of like the season opener. When he chilled out he went through his progressions well, went to the open receiver and looked just fine. He needs to see that. Daboll and Dorsey need to help him see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Anyone that has watched Allen and EJ and thinks they are similar players based on stats doesn't know their ass from their elbow. And I both supported EJ to death and hated the Allen pick in the draft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bangarang said: EJ absolutely sucked and it was painfully obvious. He wasn’t going to magically become what people hoped he would be simply because he was given more time. As hard as I am now on Josh this is very true...Josh is in no way sucking as obviously and clearly permanently as EJ did. EJ obviously would never be able to play. Josh just clearly can't play right now...unclear as to the future (although trending poorly). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, The Wiz said: Anyone that has watched Allen and EJ and thinks they are similar players based on stats doesn't know their ass from their elbow. That's tim graham for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Was it though? yes because EJ was that bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 EJ played like he was smoking a cigar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 WTH does EJ Manuel have to do with any of this? I mean really, it's just filler nonsense by writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 No. Just.... no. he threw 3 picks against what is being billed as the best defense since the ‘85 Bears. You know who else looked terrible against them? Ben Freaking Roethlisberger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coffin Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I don't even feel like BB did anything to make Josh Allen look bad, it was Josh Allen making Josh Allen look bad. And that is the concerning part. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, CLTbills said: No. Just.... no. he threw 3 picks against what is being billed as the best defense since the ‘85 Bears. You know who else looked terrible against them? Ben Freaking Roethlisberger. The Pats defense as the greatest defense is just utter and complete garbage. Stop with it. They've played total garbage offenses...including us. Our defense is better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, CLTbills said: No. Just.... no. he threw 3 picks against what is being billed as the best defense since the ‘85 Bears. You know who else looked terrible against them? Ben Freaking Roethlisberger. You are correct - I never compared EJ to Allen and I never thought Barkley should be played over Allen. But to be fair....I don’t think anyone is hailing the NE defense as being THAT good. That’s a bit of an exaggeration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: They can't hit you in practice and game speed and practice speed is vastly different. So I don't think practice effectively recreates game conditions in order to help with his decision making. Also Josh can still as a starter practice under those conditions. The film is already out on him and he isn’t going to show a dramatic improvement in practice due to the conditions not being similar enough to an actual game. If this was footwork or some other aspect of his game that he needs tremendous work on then I would understand the idea that he might be better served to be benched for a game. But I don’t see decision making improving in a significant way without getting live games in. I also don’t buy this idea that Barkley somehow gives the team a better chance to win. Josh has his issues but Barkley is a limited QB in his own right and the team spending snaps on Barkley is kind of wasting starting snaps that could simply go to Josh. I honestly think that Josh gives the team as good if not a better chance to win. Josh adds a dynamic with his legs and his power arm that Barkley simply doesn’t. Yes Allen might make some mistakes that Barkley might not but I would rather see what I have in Josh and take his positives than to just start Barkely for no other reason than to satisfy fans frustrations over one game. You don't need to hit Allen to teach him how to respond to situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I was never sold on Allen (being honest, I wanted Rosen). I really like how he's improved his accuracy on short throws this season (prior to the start of the Patriots game). I don't like how he keeps making the same mistakes over and over. How many times has he gotten sacked (or taken intentional grounding penalty) to knock us out of FG range this season? How many times has he thrown off his back foot? How many "hero ball" plays have blown up in his face? He needs to cut down on the mistakes to earn my faith. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Laughing Coffin said: I don't even feel like BB did anything to make Josh Allen look bad, it was Josh Allen making Josh Allen look bad. And that is the concerning part. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Laughing Coffin said: I don't even feel like BB did anything to make Josh Allen look bad, it was Josh Allen making Josh Allen look bad. And that is the concerning part. No he did. Rather than run his ends of upfield , he kept Allen in the pocket. Same strategy he has done against every mobile QB - including Flutie in 1999. He also used spies and challenged Allen to beat them deep - which he was unable to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, dayman said: The Pats defense as the greatest defense is just utter and complete garbage. Stop with it. They've played total garbage offenses...including us. Our defense is better. Stop making things up Makes you look foolish. Pats defense is elite this season. Deal in facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: I was never sold on Allen (being honest, I wanted Rosen). I really like how he's improved his accuracy on short throws this season (prior to the start of the Patriots game). I don't like how he keeps making the same mistakes over and over. How many times has he gotten sacked (or taken intentional grounding penalty) to knock us out of FG range this season? How many times has he thrown off his back foot? How many "hero ball" plays have blown up in his face? He needs to cut down on the mistakes to earn my faith. Good take. I feel the same way. I’m still keeping an open mind on Allen but I need to see more Just now, Teddy KGB said: Stop making things up Makes you look foolish. Pats defense is elite this season. Deal in facts an elite defense after 4 games....um ok 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts