My one peeve from the Giants game

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The decision to fold and run for the locker room is classic McDermott.

 

It's who he is.  

 

If we are going to beat NE in week 4, he is going to have to grow a pair and play much more aggressively, the way Philadelphia played in their Super Bowl victory in 2018.  

 

Philly took chances and played to win, and were rewarded for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've said this for a couple years now. This is McDermott's biggest flaw.  It sends the wrong message of complacency to your team. If Sean thinks a 14pt lead is more than enough in todays NFL he's delusional. I love his process/culture philosophy.  I love his defense.  I absolutely hate his conservative tendencies on offense.  It will come back to bite him.....

[buffalo2218]

2 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

OK I am gaga we are 2-0 and I look forward to being 3-0 this Sunday.  But I do have one peeve from the Giants game. And it involves a coaching decision, not a player. We have 47 seconds left for Halftime and 2 timeouts. Ball on our 28 yard line. We kneel twice and go into the half. Going 35 yards with two timeouts and 47 seconds is certainly not impossible. With Hauschka's foot - that would be a 55 yarder - very much doable, no?

 

Obviously I am a fan of McBeane - but the Coach gotta at least try something on first down, no? You want to be conservative - ok run on first and second down. Worst case you get nowhere. Even a 50 yard bomb on a 3rd and long with 15 seconds and one timeout left  would have been fine with Allen's arm. If it gets intercepted at the Giants 22 - they aint gonna move 40 yards in 10 seconds against our defense with just one timeout (I think they may have had one - not sure). So what is there to lose?

 

Just to put it in context: Shades of Marrone there.

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/08/nfl-doug-pederson-rips-jaguars-coaches-patriots

 

These are the decisions that help a team win close games.

 

FWIW, Looks like even Marrone is learning and changing now - with that gutsy 2-point attempt at the end of the game against Houston (which was the right call).

 

Bottomline: We dont  need advanced analytics to tell us we gotta try for something there. This was a coaching miss. Hope someone asks him that in an interview. And hope he learns from it.

I could have sworn we had the ball on the 38 yard line. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, Jobot said:

 

I felt the O was getting too loose at this point in the game.  I was good with reeling everyone back in to reset at the half.

Thanks Coach McD, it worked out for you this time...

[billsfan1959]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

This plus the entire 2nd half. We had a lead and played to just hold it. Watch other teams that are used to winning in the NFL and they are not letting up like this. We let the Giants back in the game. It shows a lack of faith in Allen. I would have like to see him sling it and keep the pedal down in the 2nd half. 

Patently untrue.

[MJS]

In that situation I'd do the same thing 10/10 times. Defense just stopped them, you almost gave up points, you are up by multiple scores, getting the ball back after the half. There is literally no reason to go for it. The reward does not outweigh the risk.

 

It was the right move.

[TroutDog]

The coach knows if they’re currently in a peak or valley in the game and he made a decision based on that. It worked and they won. 

 

Should it he be a different scenario, he may conduct himself differently. 

 

McD is a great leader of men and he will definitively err towards conservative decision making. Fault? Who knows. But they won. 

[Scott7975]

Don't agree.  We were in control of that game.  A mistake there could take us out of control of it.  I think it was the right move, but because of the rest of the situation and who we were playing.  Now, if we were playing a team like the Pats that could come back from being down 5 Tds in like 1 quarter, then I would think differently.

[Apocalypse Nuts]

FWIW I recall having an unsettled feeling based on some craziness that proceeded the kneel down.  Absolutely hate to see 2 timeouts wasted and more points before the half, but it was a good call based on what was happening at that moment.  It was pretty good clock management that got them there.  I'm sure they, like we, anticipated something better than the actual 3rd quarter we got from the O. 

 

McD is a little too conservative for me at times as well.  I'll admit it.  But he seems to know what he's doing with this whole coaching thing.  I'll defer to the expert.  It's all about getting the W baby!  At least he didn't lose his challenges if he even made any.  Seriously, his record is just terrible on challenges and I don't necessarily blame him entirely.  Sometimes your luck just sucks.

 

 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Distorted One said:

FWIW I recall having an unsettled feeling based on some craziness that proceeded the kneel down.  Absolutely hate to see 2 timeouts wasted and more points before the half, but it was a good call based on what was happening at that moment.  It was pretty good clock management that got them there.  I'm sure they, like we, anticipated something better than the actual 3rd quarter we got from the O. 

 

McD is a little too conservative for me at times as well.  I'll admit it.  But he seems to know what he's doing with this whole coaching thing.  I'll defer to the expert.  It's all about getting the W baby!  At least he didn't lose his challenges if he even made any.  Seriously, his record is just terrible on challenges and I don't necessarily blame him entirely.  Sometimes your luck just sucks.

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't Allen fumble on that sack but they blew it dead? Then they returned it to basically the location of that fumble. On my phone otherwise I'd check

Edited September 19, 2019 by dneveu

[Apocalypse Nuts]

4 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Didn't Allen fumble on that sack but they blew it dead? Then they returned it to basically the location of that fumble. On my phone otherwise I'd check

 

The drive before the kneels ended in that scrum that Cody Ford got all fired up in (love that kid's attitude regardless of how much work he needs).  There was an intentional ground call against JA but the Gmen declined in lieu of the unnecessary roughness flag on Cody.  That whole series was weird.  Then Eli's pass gets batted by Oliver and Murphy swooped in for the INT.  Yeah that's some craziness.  I remember when I saw them taking a knee thinking "Good call.  Just get the hell out of there and into the locker room with what we have.'  Sometimes you just have to stop the bad mojo and regroup.

[Shaw66]

The offense had just failed in the two minute drill.  The special teams had just failed to contain a punt return.  In other words two thirds of the team was struggling to do things they practice every week. The defense bailed them out. I wouldn't have bet on my offense and special teams in that situation. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Shaw66

[Playoffs?]

I had beef with that as well. Hopefully McD learned from that one.  

 

I truly think our offense/Allen plays better when they’re racing the clock and NEED to score.  I believe we could’ve put up at least 3 points there. 

[Da webster guy]

6 hours ago, eball said:

 

Except we didn't.  10 pass plays to 4 run plays called in the 3rd quarter.  Pre-snap penalties and a huge Knox drop stifled the Bills' offense, not conservative play-calling.

 

Do you guys who love to complain even watch the game?

 

 

Ugh that drop by Knox was the absolute perfect throw by Josh.     Fit it in a tight window in a critical play.   Knox just couldn't hold on to it.

 

Made me wonder a little bit how this guy who only caught 39 passes in college as a walk-on, and now has only 2 catches on 6 targets in the pros is someone we feel has good enough hands to catch Josh Allen fastballs.  I'm not so sure.   We traded back up to get this Chris Hogan type all-around athlete, had a fantastic block on the Motor TD run, but we already have a great blocking TE, we need a Kelce, Ertz, Kiddle, Hockenstein type receiving TE.   We drafted a pair of them this year looking for just that.

 

I hope Knox's ball skills improve.  

[QB Bills]

45 seconds left with two timeouts to get 40ish yards. Regardless of what happened on the previous drive, you have to try to push the ball downfield. It just screams of fear and meekness and the team sees that. I'm sure McDermott is a nice guy and all, but I have zero faith in this guy ever being a sharp, forward looking coach. 

[iinii]

11 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Agreed. Show some confidence in your O to take a shot, and in your D to get a stop if need be. 

Especially in that game

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, freddyjj said:

On the road.  2 TD lead.  Just stopped them in scoring zone with a lucky turnover.

 

I can't argue with sitting on the ball at Bills own 28.   if 15 yards downfield I could see trying a couple throws.  

 

Same. We had already tried one drive inside of two minutes flamed out and ended up giving them the ball back and but for a turnover would have led to them scoring. 

 

You can't just look at situations in isolation. They need the context of the game building in. I might have tried one draw or something like that and see whether you break one for a few yards but I understood the decision to sit on it. 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, eball said:

 

Except we didn't.  10 pass plays to 4 run plays called in the 3rd quarter.  Pre-snap penalties and a huge Knox drop stifled the Bills' offense, not conservative play-calling.

 

Do you guys who love to complain even watch the game?

 

 

And Josh's worst miss of the game on the slant to Zay. If that was on the money (and Zay caught it of course) he was gone for a long one. There was a lot of grass ahead of him. 

 

Both that and the Knox play were really good offensive calls we just didn't execute. We also tried to start three consecutive drives with hard play actions and on the first two had false start penalties. When we didn't on the 3rd one we got a first down and started the final scoring drive. 

 

It was execution in the 3rd Quarter not conservatism. It is like an automatic reaction for fans when the team goes 3 and out a couple of times to scream "this team is too conservative"

[Alphadawg7]

12 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The decision to fold and run for the locker room is classic McDermott.

 

It's who he is.  

 

If we are going to beat NE in week 4, he is going to have to grow a pair and play much more aggressively, the way Philadelphia played in their Super Bowl victory in 2018.  

 

Philly took chances and played to win, and were rewarded for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except that’s not true.  He was aggressive frequently at end of halves last year with Allen under center and on 4th down.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Except that’s not true.  He was aggressive frequently at end of halves last year with Allen under center and on 4th down.

 

He went for it a few times the year before with the non throwing Quarterback at the end of halves too. I mean it rarely worked because, well, you know, Tyrod sucks. 

[Buddo]

I wasn't sure either way at the time. In hindsight, I think it was a solid decision. As Gunner said, it might have been worth a low risk play to see if they could get decent yards towards a FG, but it certainly wasn't worth going full gung-ho.

 

The reason, momentum. We had had it, but the Giants had briefly got it back, with the 3 and out, then the big punt return. The D gets the football back, but as Shaw made the point as well - two parts of the team were suddenly on the back foot, and they would be the parts you would rely on to get anything out of those last plays.

 

Get off the field, with receiving the football to start the second half, and let the Giants go in thinking they have lost momentum by losing the football.

 

Sometimes you just take what the other team gives you - and it applies not just to QBs.

 

Another day, another situation, I might be calling McDermott out in similar circumstances, but I think he made the right call this time around.

[fergie's ire]

I thought they would do the thing where they line up like they are going to take shots down the field, but run a draw.  If the defense sniffs it out and tackles the back for a two yard gain, then fine....take a knew.  However, if the back gets free and rips of a 12 yard run and gets out of bounds, then start trying to get into field goal range.

 

[Magox]

15 hours ago, freddyjj said:

On the road.  2 TD lead.  Just stopped them in scoring zone with a lucky turnover.

 

I can't argue with sitting on the ball at Bills own 28.   if 15 yards downfield I could see trying a couple throws.  

 

This is where context matters.   The Bills are up comfortably, they have the game under control with the defense playing lights out football.  Allen is still a young QB and rather than potentially playing to Josh's inner instincts of attempting to play hero ball with less than 45 seconds on the clock and risking a turnover that could turn the entire dynamics of the game upside down and shift the momentum to the Giants, McD would rather go into halftime with a great lead and the ball to start the QB.

 

At this stage of Allen's development, I'm ok with the decision.

[Orlando Tim]

14 hours ago, Playoffs? said:

I had beef with that as well. Hopefully McD learned from that one.  

 

I truly think our offense/Allen plays better when they’re racing the clock and NEED to score.  I believe we could’ve put up at least 3 points there. 

We won the game by 2 tds- you play different opponents differently but what should he have learned? I agreed with it- on the road a 2 td lead at half is great and the chance of disaster is too high.

[jletha]

15 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Feel like you dont know what come back means.  We really had control of this game throughout.  It was only about half a drive in which I had any worries.  Game was over as soon as Allen hit Brown to go into field goal position.

They got within a touchdown in the 4th quarter. That is exactly what getting back in the game means. If you dont understand that then idk what to tell you. Yes of course the door was closed when we score again but we could have easily put the game out of hand in the first half with another score before halftime.

[Royale with Cheese]

18 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

They struggled to move the ball in their previous possession, things got a bit heated between the two teams, and then they dodged a bullet on the long punt return. I was fine with taking a knee with a two touchdown lead and getting the ball first in the second half.

 

I wonder how many posters calling for them to try to score again before halftime would have been on this forum questioning the decision if it resulted in a turnover and a score going the other way?

 

I agree with this.  I wanted them to kneel it down and regroup at halftime...

[billsfan1959]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Except that’s not true.  He was aggressive frequently at end of halves last year with Allen under center and on 4th down.

Absolutely correct. Just another false narrative...

 

The really good coaches understand when the situation calls for an aggressive call and when it doesn't. This one didn't...

Edited September 20, 2019 by billsfan1959

[IgotBILLStopay]

FWIW, Marrone did go for it just before halftime in yesterday's game against the Titans. Very similar to the Bills' situation, Jags had 45 seconds left and two timeouts. They were also protecting a two touchdown lead. And while the Bills were at the 28 yard line, Jags were only at the 10 yard line. They did get a first down after two plays, took a timeout and tried another play on 1st down from the 23 yard line - then gave up with about 10-15 seconds left. This was with Gardner Minshew at QB.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=401127859

Edited September 20, 2019 by IgotBILLStopay

[BillsShredder83]

19 hours ago, freddyjj said:

On the road.  2 TD lead.  Just stopped them in scoring zone with a lucky turnover.

 

I can't argue with sitting on the ball at Bills own 28.   if 15 yards downfield I could see trying a couple throws.  

And getting the ball back after the half

[ColdFront_USAF]

I had the same complaint, but moreso at the end of the game. The Giants had just scored, our offense had just answered with 7 thanks to a stupid penalty giving us 3 more shots at a touchdown. When we get the ball back , IIRC there is a little over 5 minutes left in the game and we're up two scores. 

 

At this point, I believe they should still be going for 7. Not New England esque deep shots to humiliate your opponent, just move the chains and eat that clock up while giving yourself a chance to expand your lead and ice the game. McD goes into "let my 97 year old running back run the clock out" mode, leading to a quick punt.  Anyone that's been around the game a while knows 2 scores in 5 minutes is not impossible. I don't care how much faith you have in our defense, why give them an opportunity? Even a field goal makes it that much more difficult for them to come back. When you have a hall of fame Superbowl mvp quarterback and probably the best rb on the planet on the other side, I'm not taking chances if I can avoid it. That's the kind of thing that could absolutely bite us in the rear against NE.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, ColdFront_USAF said:

I had the same complaint, but moreso at the end of the game. The Giants had just scored, our offense had just answered with 7 thanks to a stupid penalty giving us 3 more shots at a touchdown. When we get the ball back , IIRC there is a little over 5 minutes left in the game and we're up two scores. 

 

At this point, I believe they should still be going for 7. Not New England esque deep shots to humiliate your opponent, just move the chains and eat that clock up while giving yourself a chance to expand your lead and ice the game. McD goes into "let my 97 year old running back run the clock out" mode, leading to a quick punt.  Anyone that's been around the game a while knows 2 scores in 5 minutes is not impossible. I don't care how much faith you have in our defense, why give them an opportunity? Even a field goal makes it that much more difficult for them to come back. When you have a hall of fame Superbowl mvp quarterback and probably the best rb on the planet on the other side, I'm not taking chances if I can avoid it. That's the kind of thing that could absolutely bite us in the rear against NE.

 

Agree that drive was more annoying but there were extenuating circumstances there too. Having rushed for no gain on 1st down, Ty then got a false start penalty. Then on 2nd and 15 Singletary bounced to the outside and while he was never getting the first he might have made it 3rd and manageable and then his hammy tweaked and he limped out for a 4 yard gain leaving at least another 3 or 4 yards on the field. At 3rd and 11 I thought a run and punt then became the right call. 

[HappyDays]

It's disingenuous to say that McDermott is a conservative coach because of one decision. We threw 18 straight passes to start our first game. I am sure that if we were playing a better team and were tied and didn't get the ball to start the half we would have tried to get 3 points. In this particular game situation it was a good decision. We were one big mistake from losing all the momentum. The risk outweighed the potential reward.

[John from Riverside]

22 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The decision to fold and run for the locker room is classic McDermott.

 

It's who he is.  

 

If we are going to beat NE in week 4, he is going to have to grow a pair and play much more aggressively, the way Philadelphia played in their Super Bowl victory in 2018.  

 

Philly took chances and played to win, and were rewarded for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But we were not playing New ENgland....we were plaing a giants team that was missing several key pieces to its offense.

 

Lets play devils advocate here.....lets say we try to score again we obviousy have to pass or what is the point.....if the ball gets picked and taken for a touchdown?  It changes the momentum of the game and then who knows what happens.

 

New England is a different animal.....if we dont score at LEAST 3 touchdowns in that game we won win.

[reddogblitz]

I wanted us to try to get in FG range and get some points before the half and more on 1st possession of 2nd half.  But I wasn't surprised. I've been watching football a long time and have seen this scenario play out many times.  It's what coaches do for the most part.  Sitting at home on our couch with buds watching the game being aggressive and going for it makes sense.  If your career and dreams depend on decisions like this, you may think about it a little different.

 

Bottom line, we won, so I'm good with all the decisions made in that game.  Just win.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

31 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

I wanted us to try to get in FG range and get some points before the half and more on 1st possession of 2nd half.  But I wasn't surprised. I've been watching football a long time and have seen this scenario play out many times.  It's what coaches do for the most part.  Sitting at home on our couch with buds watching the game being aggressive and going for it makes sense.  If your career and dreams depend on decisions like this, you may think about it a little different.

 

Bottom line, we won, so I'm good with all the decisions made in that game.  Just win.

 

Not to mention the team had a chance to go into the locker room with their Second-year QB having just taken a giant leap forward.  What do you think a pick does to that sense of purpose? It definitely doesn't help. Especially against a Giants team the Bills were clearly handling.  McD made the right choice.  If it was NE? That might be different. But it wasn't NE. 

[badassgixxer05]

I didn't like how conservative we got for the rest of the game, but I guess when your D is playing as good as ours we can afford to do that. To many memories of past games we blew by one score is always in the back of my mind, but when game is over and we got the W, it really didnt matter much I now see.

[dickleyjones]

my take is that they are progressing slowly and carefully with Allen. one thing at a time... that is an effective way to teach and learn. they are focused on the short passing game right now and are seeing vast improvement. i don't think they need more than that, they were winning with the short passes, no need to get aggressive until they feel Allen is ready for that.

 

 

so yes i agree i want them to go for it. but i think the reason they do not is educationally based.

[KD in CA]

On 9/19/2019 at 12:08 PM, ngbills said:

This plus the entire 2nd half. We had a lead and played to just hold it. Watch other teams that are used to winning in the NFL and they are not letting up like this. We let the Giants back in the game. It shows a lack of faith in Allen. I would have like to see him sling it and keep the pedal down in the 2nd half. 

 

Don't really understand this constant refrain I read here.   How exactly were they sitting on a lead all second half?

 

In the 3d quarter they had 3 short drives where they called a total of 8 passes and 3 runs. They just didn't execute.  They hurt themselves with penalties and allowed two drive killing sacks.  Then in the fourth quarter they had a long drive that burned clock and resulted in the put away touchdown.  After that, obviously they ran the ball to kill he clock in the final five minutes.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by KD in CA

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

Don't really understand this constant refrain I read here.   How exactly were they sitting on a lead all second half?

 

In the 3d quarter they had 3 short drives where they called a total of 8 passes and 3 runs. They just didn't execute.  They hurt themselves with penalties and allowed two drive killing sacks.  Then in the fourth quarter they had a long drive that burned clock and resulted in the put away touchdown.  After that, obviously they ran the ball to kill he clock in the final five minutes.

 

 

 

Yeah - i think there was a knox drop on what wouldve been a first down.  Great ball IIRC.  Another drive got messed up with a false start

[Billsfan1972]

They had already scored 21 points & threw for over 200 yards......  McD knows that is when to put on the brakes......  21 points from the offense & moving the ball through the air is just not allowed if a Buffalo Bill.  

 

Now if the D was responsible for 14 of those points that would be a different story.

 

Inexcusable and only to paraphrase Bruce Springsteen "like a dog that has been beat too much, you spend half your life just a covering up" that is a Bills' fan who is scared to let the offense impose it's will and score points & throw the football!!!!!

Edited September 21, 2019 by Billsfan1972