Bills dont draft a WR

[mannc]

9 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Bandit, there are 3 that can come out.....Jeudy (perhaps a top 5 pick), Ruggs (4.25 40 dash time, and actually blocks) and Devonta Smith (a can't miss prospect with great moves, acrobatic, and glue hands).

These kids are all sensational. Btw, they also have a great soph playing next year - Jaylen Waddle.

 

 

Waddle has absolutely ridiculous acceleration.  Would love to have him on the Bills right now.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...read an article where McBeane said the Duke Williams signing reduced the top priority/high draft pick necessity in 2019 Draft....must have pretty high expectations....interesting....

[Bill from NYC]

21 minutes ago, mannc said:

Waddle has absolutely ridiculous acceleration.  Would love to have him on the Bills right now.

I saw a very recent video in which Ruggs and Waddle raced a 40 yard dash. Ruggs won by less than a foot.

[Reed83HOF]

On 4/30/2019 at 10:09 AM, thebandit27 said:

I just wonder how they're going to fit all of Brees, Thomas, Peat, Apple, and Bell, plus their 2019 and 2020 draft picks, under the cap.  As it stands today, they'll probably be about $75M under, but once Brees gets his pound of flesh, that number will be cut by 40%.

At this point in his career - does Brees care about the extra $7-$10 million or another ring?

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

At this point in his career - does Brees care about the extra $7-$10 million or another ring?

 

Considering he lost $9Million in bad investments in jewelry (of all things), he may care more about that $ than we think.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/saints-qb-drew-brees-lost-9-million-to-what-he-calls-a-scam.html

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

At this point in his career - does Brees care about the extra $7-$10 million or another ring?

 

Judging by his last 2 contracts, he cares about the extra $7-$10M

[Reed83HOF]

 

10 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Considering he lost $9Million in bad investments in jewelry (of all things), he may care more about that $ than we think.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/saints-qb-drew-brees-lost-9-million-to-what-he-calls-a-scam.html

I forgot about that  

[Rob's House]

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'm pretty happy about the WR situation. It's not perfect, but it's a vast improvement. We went from a bunch of borderline NFL players to a halfway decent squad, and we might be better than we think.

 

Brown has struggled with injuries, but when healthy he might be the best WR in the AFCE. He's coming off a season where he was healthy for all 16 games & was highly productive until his QB was replaced by LamaRG3 who doesn't know he's allowed to throw to WRs.

 

Robert Foster's the wild card. Was his performance down the stretch an aberation or his coming out party? The answer will go a long way to determining how good this WR group really is.

 

Cole Beasley won't be an all-pro but he's a solid NFL receiver who is very good at the short underneath game.

 

Zay Jones has been a disappointment, but he improved significantly from year 1 to year 2. Does he continue to improve? Hard to say, but I like him as a WR4.

 

And there's plenty of intrigue beyond these guys. It'll be interesting to see if there's a hidden gem in the rest of the pack.

 

Again, the situation isn't ideal, but Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a few seasons. But the arrow's pointing up.

 

 

[ngbills]

1 minute ago, Rob's House said:

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'm pretty happy about the WR situation. It's not perfect, but it's a vast improvement. We went from a bunch of borderline NFL players to a halfway decent squad, and we might be better than we think.

 

Brown has struggled with injuries, but when healthy he might be the best WR in the AFCE. He's coming off a season where he was healthy for all 16 games & was highly productive until his QB was replaced by LamaRG3 who doesn't know he's allowed to throw to WRs.

 

Robert Foster's the wild card. Was his performance down the stretch an aberation or his coming out party? The answer will go a long way to determining how good this WR group really is.

 

Cole Beasley won't be an all-pro but he's a solid NFL receiver who is very good at the short underneath game.

 

Zay Jones has been a disappointment, but he improved significantly from year 1 to year 2. Does he continue to improve? Hard to say, but I like him as a WR4.

 

And there's plenty of intrigue beyond these guys. It'll be interesting to see if there's a hidden gem in the rest of the pack.

 

Again, the situation isn't ideal, but Rome wasn't built in a day. It took a few seasons. But the arrow's pointing up.

 

 

I think people look back and can say this. But next year we could play the same game - all they did was bring in Brown and Beasley who obviously were just #2 and #3 WR's blah blah blah. 

 

Last year we had K Benjamin who prior to knowing he would suck was the highest profile WR of anyone on this year or last years roster. He was supposed to be the legit #1 guy. 

Kerley was a guy that had some big seasons. A Holmes was another guy that people pointed to some prior success in OAK. Zay Jones, McCloud and Foster are still here. 

 

Its easy to look back and say this years talent is clearly superior bc we know that KB bombed. We know that Kerley and Holmes did not pan out. But Brown and Beasley could just as easily turn out the same. They are not no brainers like if we had done the Brown or OBJ trade. But not knowing how this would play out - KB, Jones, Kerley, Holmes, Foster vs. Brown, Beasley, Jones, Foster is not some drastic upgrade. 

[Rob's House]

10 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I think people look back and can say this. But next year we could play the same game - all they did was bring in Brown and Beasley who obviously were just #2 and #3 WR's blah blah blah. 

 

Last year we had K Benjamin who prior to knowing he would suck was the highest profile WR of anyone on this year or last years roster. He was supposed to be the legit #1 guy. 

Kerley was a guy that had some big seasons. A Holmes was another guy that people pointed to some prior success in OAK. Zay Jones, McCloud and Foster are still here. 

 

Its easy to look back and say this years talent is clearly superior bc we know that KB bombed. We know that Kerley and Holmes did not pan out. But Brown and Beasley could just as easily turn out the same. They are not no brainers like if we had done the Brown or OBJ trade. But not knowing how this would play out - KB, Jones, Kerley, Holmes, Foster vs. Brown, Beasley, Jones, Foster is not some drastic upgrade. 

That's fair, and a lot is unknown, but I do think we're better on paper than at this time last year. 

 

KB was a ? as he was a few years removed from his one good season, Foster was a UDFA with no expectations, Zay was coming off a terrible rookie campaign, and Kerley was a JAG.

 

This year Brown's coming off a good season, Foster exceeded all expectations, Zay is still a ? but was much better last year, & Beasley > Kerley. 

 

It's certainly possible that this whole thing could go sideways, but I'm a lot more optimistic than last year.

 

 

[Forward Progress]

Don't forget about Duke Williams.  I know highlight reels don't show the bad plays, but Duke looks like he has developed into an exceptional receiver in the CFL.  Check out these catches - he tracks and high-points the ball better than any Bill's receiver in recent memory.  If we drafted a guy in this draft with these highlights, would you be excited?  I like Duke much, much more than David Sills.

 

Duke Williams Highlights

[dgrochester55]

I honestly thought that adding Beasley and Brown was addressing this position but it seems that a few posting here during draft weekend disagreed.

 

I would have been happy getting a receiver early if the circumstances were right, but getting Oliver and Ford were the better decisions.    There was no sure thing this year anyway, this receiving class reminded me of the 2008 one where none were drafted early.  That classes earlier round picks ended up being Jordy Nelson, DeSean Jackson and a bunch of average players and busts, nothing that was going to singlehandedly be the difference between playoffs and drafting early.

 

I think that Buffalo will get a more established number one if it is a need, but for now, there is enough on the team to give Allen multiple reliable options to throw to.

 

 

[thebandit27]

23 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

I honestly thought that adding Beasley and Brown was addressing this position but it seems that a few posting here during draft weekend disagreed.

 

I would have been happy getting a receiver early if the circumstances were right, but getting Oliver and Ford were the better decisions.    There was no sure thing this year anyway, this receiving class reminded me of the 2008 one where none were drafted early.  That classes earlier round picks ended up being Jordy Nelson, DeSean Jackson and a bunch of average players and busts, nothing that was going to singlehandedly be the difference between playoffs and drafting early.

 

I think that Buffalo will get a more established number one if it is a need, but for now, there is enough on the team to give Allen multiple reliable options to throw to.

 

 

 

It was addressing the position to the degree that there's actual NFL talent on the roster now.  I think many folks were hoping that, somehow, someway, the team would add bona fide top-tier WRs to the roster.  That two of the top 5 WRs in the NFL were traded this offseason is a fact that pours salt in some of the wound, considering that this was a team with 10 draft picks to use as trade ammo and an abundance of cap space to accommodate a new deal for such a WR.

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

It was addressing the position to the degree that there's actual NFL talent on the roster now.  I think many folks were hoping that, somehow, someway, the team would add bona fide top-tier WRs to the roster.  That two of the top 5 WRs in the NFL were traded this offseason is a fact that pours salt in some of the wound, considering that this was a team with 10 draft picks to use as trade ammo and an abundance of cap space to accommodate a new deal for such a WR.

 

Some of this goes back to the McBeane view on what type of team they want to have as far as positional value, both have said they don't need a true WR1. It also has to do with long-term and short term-team building. Seeing that we only have 2 DL under contract for next year and that we had Oliver rated highly, we in essence chose DL over WR. I am assuming that we had next year's draft class factored in to this decision as well. 

 

While I wanted us to get more weapons for Allen, it was slim pickings to a degree. I can see why we didn't want to part with assets for OBJ and honestly, I wanted AB, but after seeing what an ####### he is. I am so glad we pissed on that fool.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Some of this goes back to the McBeane view on what type of team they want to have as far as positional value, both have said they don't need a true WR1. It also has to do with long-term and short term-team building. Seeing that we only have 2 DL under contract for next year and that we had Oliver rated highly, we in essence chose DL over WR. I am assuming that we had next year's draft class factored in to this decision as well. 

 

While I wanted us to get more weapons for Allen, it was slim pickings to a degree. I can see why we didn't want to part with assets for OBJ and honestly, I wanted AB, but after seeing what an ####### he is. I am so glad we pissed on that fool.

 

It makes sense.

 

If you have your trenches and Franchise QB shored up, it's much easier to "find" skill players that will succeed.

 

If you have no Lines and no QB, no one you bring in at skill positions will succeed no matter their talent level.

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It makes sense.

 

If you have your trenches and Franchise QB shored up, it's much easier to "find" skill players that will succeed.

 

If you have no Lines and no QB, no one you bring in at skill positions will succeed no matter their talent level.

Which is refreshing seeing that we haven't focused on the trenches in a long time. @BillfromNYC has to be really happy with that. I'm still surprised how long it took us to draft a DB this year LOL.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Which 1A FA receiver was out there this year who was comparable to Woods? It's arguable that the Bills got the best of the bunch in John Brown, who was on pace for a terrific season until Flacco was benched. https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/3/9/18203492/more-2019-free-agents-wide-receivers

 

 

They did make a move for a couple WR's who have had good seasons.

 

But in 12 cumulative NFL seasons they have combined for just 3 years where they averaged 4 receptions per game.    And only combined for 3 seasons where they exceeded 700 yards.

 

That brought the Bills off life support at the WR position..........but it's a stretch to expect the best from them when the majority of their careers are sub those figures.

 

In perspective Jermaine Kearse put up 65 catches and 800 yards in 2017 for the Jets and most Bills fans don't know who that is...........the numbers are modest enough not to strike fear in any DC's or CB's.

 

And in a few years what will we remember this offseason for?     

 

Quite possibly the Antonio Brown and OBJ trades.     Two of the best WR changed teams.

 

People can try to give credit for "trying" on Antonio Brown but the extent of which remains unknown.    For all we know they were not going to give him the contract Oakland did.   And in the end they did not execute a deal.

Edited May 1, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[thebandit27]

42 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Some of this goes back to the McBeane view on what type of team they want to have as far as positional value, both have said they don't need a true WR1. It also has to do with long-term and short term-team building. Seeing that we only have 2 DL under contract for next year and that we had Oliver rated highly, we in essence chose DL over WR. I am assuming that we had next year's draft class factored in to this decision as well. 

 

While I wanted us to get more weapons for Allen, it was slim pickings to a degree. I can see why we didn't want to part with assets for OBJ and honestly, I wanted AB, but after seeing what an ####### he is. I am so glad we pissed on that fool.

 

We'll see how they feel about positional value come 2020.  I have a feeling that what they're saying now and what they do 11 months from now may not be in concert with each other.

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

We'll see how they feel about positional value come 2020.  I have a feeling that what they're saying now and what they do 11 months from now may not be in concert with each other.

This is a good point. It will be nice to have some more data points to fully see this approach, Beane has had 2 full offseasons now. 

[ngbills]

36 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They did make a move for a couple WR's who have had good seasons.

 

But in 12 cumulative NFL seasons they have combined for just 3 years where they averaged 4 receptions per game.    And only combined for 3 seasons where they exceeded 700 yards.

 

That brought the Bills off life support at the WR position..........but it's a stretch to expect the best from them when the majority of their careers are sub those figures.

 

In perspective Jermaine Kearse put up 65 catches and 800 yards in 2017 for the Jets and most Bills fans don't know who that is...........the numbers are modest enough not to strike fear in any DC's or CB's.

 

And in a few years what will we remember this offseason for?     

 

Quite possibly the Antonio Brown and OBJ trades.     Two of the best WR changed teams.

 

People can try to give credit for "trying" on Antonio Brown but the extent of which remains unknown.    For all we know they were not going to give him the contract Oakland did.   And in the end they did not execute a deal.

This is similar to my point. Since it is the first year with the Bills its easy to have hope and expectations because they are new. 

 

But compare this to last year:

KB was 4+ catch, >700 yd guy

Kerley and Holmes had each shown they could possibly be that guy as they had done it in the past.

 

There are so many NFL WR's that have stat lines like these guys - 60 catches for 700 yds in one year, 35 catches for 450 in the next, etc etc. These tend to be role guys that some years need to play a bigger part then the next. But they are who they are. Not like an A Brown that will put up 1200-1500 year in and year out. Heck, when Stevie J left people said his 3 1000 yd seasons were basically crap bc any guy can do that. But we get two guys that have not sniffed 3 consecutive seasons and we are set at WR?

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

We'll see how they feel about positional value come 2020.  I have a feeling that what they're saying now and what they do 11 months from now may not be in concert with each other.

 

 

Yeah they've already adapted to quicker/faster WR who can separate after initially trying to build a corps of lumbering WR's.

 

I think their plan is malleable........which is a reason for optimism.

[BillsFan17]

I'm more concerned that there was no edge rusher taken until the seventh round.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Forward Progress said:

Don't forget about Duke Williams.  I know highlight reels don't show the bad plays, but Duke looks like he has developed into an exceptional receiver in the CFL.  Check out these catches - he tracks and high-points the ball better than any Bill's receiver in recent memory.  If we drafted a guy in this draft with these highlights, would you be excited?  I like Duke much, much more than David Sills.

 

Duke Williams Highlights

...posted this earlier FWIW.......

 

Posted 4 hours ago

...read an article where McBeane said the Duke Williams signing reduced the top priority/high draft pick necessity in 2019 Draft....must have pretty high expectations....interesting....

 

[dave mcbride]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah they've already adapted to quicker/faster WR who can separate after initially trying to build a corps of lumbering WR's.

 

I think their plan is malleable........which is a reason for optimism.

I was happy they didn't take Metcalf. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but we're talking about who guy who can probably run as fast as Robocop, but changes direction about as slowly as Robocop. I just don't see guys like him as the answer these days. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

5 hours ago, ngbills said:

Where did these guys get drafted:

 

Donnel Pumphrey late 4th

Justin Jackson 7th

Miles Gaskin 7th

Ken Dixon late 4th

Jahwan Edwards UD

Jarvion Franklin UD

 

 

And maybe one of them, if any, had 67 TD’s in 3 seasons.  Again, as I stated above, it is his running style, vision etc that I believe makes him a good pick in round 3, not just the TD’s alone.  Time will tell.

[John from Riverside]

Keep in mind here we took that TE pretty high and he is a duel threat guy.......not a lot of college production because behind highly drafted WR's.

 

That has to figure into the mix here.

 

TJ Yeldon - Pass catching ability

Shady - Pass catching material

Gore - Pass catching ability

Singletary - showed he could catch.

[DrDawkinstein]

For what it's worth...

 

 

[thebandit27]

53 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

For what it's worth...

 

 

 

This is a brutally dishonest statement by Bobby Belt.

 

If you do the math on it, not only is he counting the 2 WRs that were picked last week, he's cutting off his analysis with the last one of the 5 WRs selected in the first round of the 2014 draft--the best WR draft in history.

 

Here are the last 19 receivers picked in the first round:

 

Marquise Brown

N'Keal Harry

DJ Moore

Calvin Ridley

Corey Davis

Mike Williams

John Ross

Corey Coleman

Will Fuller

Josh Doctson

Laquan Treadwell

Amari Cooper

Kevin White

DeVante Parker

Nelson Agholor

Breshad Perriman

Phillip Dorsett

Kelvin Benjamin

 

If Belt wanted to make such a point while still being intellectually honest, he'd have left Brown and Harry off the list, and cut it off at Dorsett.  In that case, he could've said only 1 of the last 16, and the point would've been both relevant and uncontrived.

 

Instead, he drew an arbitrary line.  If he wants to include someone from the 2014 class, how about all of them? I know the answer: because then you get into guys like Cooks, Beckham, Evans, and Watkins, who are actually really good.

 

Okay, I'm calm now that I got that off my chest.

Edited May 2, 2019 by thebandit27

[thebandit27]

19 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

This is a good point. It will be nice to have some more data points to fully see this approach, Beane has had 2 full offseasons now. 

 

I have a feeling that they'll try to go after Tyler Boyd next offseason.

 

He really broke out last year, topping 70 receptions and 1,000 yards with 7 TDs, this despite missing 2 games, playing half a season without AJ Green across from him to draw coverage, and catching passes from Jeff Driskell.  He had a very-solid 70% catch rate and averaged a respectable 9.5 yards per target (good for 23rd in the NFL).

 

Compare his 2018 season with that of a popular offseason target 'round these parts, Tyrell Williams:

 

Boyd: 108 targets, 76 receptions, 1,028 yards, 7 TDs

Williams: 65 targets, 41 receptions, 653 yards, 5 TDs

 

Boyd also ranked 12th in FO's DYAR and 4th in DVOA.

 

Cincinnati is the kind of team you may be able to pick on in free agency next offseason.  I expect that they'll be in a bit of a transition, as I can't see them keeping Dalton and his $17M cap hit when they can cut him with zero dead money, though if he looks good in Zac Taylor's system they could always extend him.  Aside from Boyd and Dalton, their list of upcoming UFAs includes:

 

AJ Green

Tyler Eifert

Clint Boling

Andrew Billings

Nick Vigil

 

Which may not look all that daunting at first glance, but consider that Green is the unquestioned WR1 there, and they can't let both he and Boyd walk out the door.  They have only John Ross with NFL experience under contract behind them, as Cody Core is also a UFA. Eifert, while injured, is the only TE on the roster aside from Uzomah with any experience. Boling played 969 snaps in 2018, and is one of the team's steadiest linemen--both he and Trey Hopkins, their other starting guard, are UFAs next offseason. Vigil and Billings both played over 600 snaps on defense in 2018; both are slated to start again this offseason.

 

With $45M under the cap, something has to give somewhere, so if I'm Buffalo, Boyd and/or Green are guys I'm targeting to make a big offer.

[Wayne Cubed]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

This is a brutally dishonest statement by Bobby Belt.

 

If you do the math on it, not only is he counting the 2 WRs that were picked last week, he's cutting off his analysis with the last one of the 5 WRs selected in the first round of the 2014 draft--the best WR draft in history.

 

Here are the last 19 receivers picked in the first round:

 

Marquise Brown

N'Keal Harry

DJ Moore

Calvin Ridley

Corey Davis

Mike Williams

John Ross

Corey Coleman

Will Fuller

Josh Doctson

Laquan Treadwell

Amari Cooper

Kevin White

DeVante Parker

Nelson Agholor

Breshad Perriman

Phillip Dorsett

Kelvin Benjamin

 

If Belt wanted to make such a point while still being intellectually honest, he'd have left Brown and Harry off the list, and cut it off at Dorsett.  In that case, he could've said only 1 of the last 16, and the point would've been both relevant and uncontrived.

 

Instead, he drew an arbitrary line.  If he wants to include someone from the 2014 class, how about all of them? I know the answer: because then you get into guys like Cooks, Beckham, Evans, and Watkins, who are actually really good.

 

Okay, I'm calm now that I got that off my chest.

 

And of that list there are a good amount of receivers who's stock is trending up. Ridley, Moore, Williams, Davis, Fuller(if he can stay healthy) and Agholor are all trending up. The only real busts on that list are Benjamin, White, Ross and Dorsett. That's about right in line for what you would consider success in the first round for a draft pick.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Wayne Cubed

[thebandit27]

8 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

And of that list there are a good amount of receivers who's stock is trending up. Ridley, Moore, Williams, Coleman, Fuller(if he can stay healthy) and Agholor are all trending up. The only real busts on that list are Benjamin, White, Ross and Dorsett. That's about right in line for what you would consider success in the first round for a draft pick.

 

I have a feeling the pro bowl percentage for 1st round receivers will get a significant uptick once the 2020 class has a chance to make waves.

[Dr. Who]

18 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I was happy they didn't take Metcalf. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but we're talking about who guy who can probably run as fast as Robocop, but changes direction about as slowly as Robocop. I just don't see guys like him as the answer these days. 

I wanted DK, especially once he fell into the second, but that's damn funny. Next yrs draft has lots of wr talent at the top of the draft and quality free agents. No reason the position shouldn't be greatly upgraded soonish. Just need Allen to show growth with remade line, and modestly capable wr corp, TEs with knees that work, etc.

[DrDawkinstein]

31 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

And of that list there are a good amount of receivers who's stock is trending up. Ridley, Moore, Williams, Coleman, Fuller(if he can stay healthy) and Agholor are all trending up. The only real busts on that list are Benjamin, White, Ross and Dorsett. That's about right in line for what you would consider success in the first round for a draft pick.

 

I agree with you and Bandit in general. But one small point, Coleman is definitely not trending up. He's been on the slide since being shipped out of Cleveland and not bothering to even try with the Bills. His only trend up is that the Giants got rid of OBJ, so that bumps him up the depth chart one spot, for now.

[Wayne Cubed]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I agree with you and Bandit in general. But one small point, Coleman is definitely not trending up. He's been on the slide since being shipped out of Cleveland and not bothering to even try with the Bills. His only trend up is that the Giants got rid of OBJ, so that bumps him up the depth chart one spot, for now.

 

Whoops I mean Davis, haha, not sure why I typed Coleman.

[Alphadawg7]

21 hours ago, Forward Progress said:

Don't forget about Duke Williams.  I know highlight reels don't show the bad plays, but Duke looks like he has developed into an exceptional receiver in the CFL.  Check out these catches - he tracks and high-points the ball better than any Bill's receiver in recent memory.  If we drafted a guy in this draft with these highlights, would you be excited?  I like Duke much, much more than David Sills.

 

Duke Williams Highlights

 

Agree, but we did get a rookie with this type of reel, his name is David Sills V and it will be fun to watch these two battle the other WRs in camp and preseason.

[DrDawkinstein]

27 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Whoops I mean Davis, haha, not sure why I typed Coleman.

 

Haha, right on. I wish he had been trending up last September!