John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[ColoradoBills]

46 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

To you it is tiresome. I understand that. To me it isn't. It is fascinating. I am, pardon the pun, a "process" guy. I always have been in every facet of life. That is why McDermott is my kind of coach. To me analysing the strategic choices made and the alternative options and trying to surmise the range of possible outcomes is genuinely more interesting than arguing about who our number 1 receiver is going into training camp. That is the little stuff. I want to worry about the big questions. It is just the way I am wired. 

 

agree

[SoTier]

 

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Why think they will?  Why slant your thinking in that direction?  Allen has some experience now.  O line is retooled.  Defense looks good.  

 

Oh, I don't know ... maybe because the Bills only won 6 games in 2018.  Maybe because McDermott's teams have been blown out by 20+ points 8 times in 32 games (25%).   Maybe because the Bills OL and WR corps weren't NFL caliber units in 2018, and while these units have been upgraded significantly, questions remain how productive the offense will be because nobody knows how well Allen will play in 2019 -- and he definitely needs to improve significantly if the Bills are to have a winning season.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I"m perfectly happy with my level of football knowledge.  My drive to OP is 5 hours and I can't afford, nor do I have to time, to attend 8 games/year.  I don't compare my Mets love to my Bills love; I'm a fan of both teams.  I question your fandom because you refuse to acknowledge anything good about the team.

 

 

Excuses are the death of process.

 

Plenty of Bills fans from your area that would gladly give you free rides to the game since they are going anyway.........you just don't want to ride your bike to their house in the dark.

 

And you could get on a Bills budget.

 

First thing, stop ordering take-out for dinner every night.   There is your season ticket.    And the $10 a day you save on tipping for takeout(why?)............that's your club seat upgrade right there.........you could be sitting next to @teef and getting free dental advice.......which is worth more than the damn seats!   

 

But if you don't have the process in you then keep raking your leaves from one side of the lawn to the other on Sundays and then coming in to complain about the takes of people who actually watched the games. SMH.

 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

Oh, I don't know ... maybe because the Bills only won 6 games in 2018.  Maybe because McDermott's teams have been blown out by 20+ points 8 times in 32 games (25%).   Maybe because the Bills OL and WR corps weren't NFL caliber units in 2018, and while these units have been upgraded significantly, questions remain how productive the offense will be because nobody knows how well Allen will play in 2019 -- and he definitely needs to improve significantly if the Bills are to have a winning season.

 

As I said to another individual today, go ahead and wallow in your misery then.  Everybody ***** about not ever having a franchise like QB since Kelly, and they draft Allen.  Do we know what he'll be yet?  No.  But he has the physical talent.  They upgraded the WR and O line spots, you even say that here.  They added to the DBs, the young MLB has a second season to grow into the position.    

 

They had had some things to address from last year and addressed them.  Not only the above but got rid of ineffective O line and ST coaches, brought in an All Pro return guy, and so on.  There's not one thing they didn't try to address this offseason.  In your world none of that matters I guess.  (Cue the show me the baby line or how how they haven't changed in 50 years -you choose).

[K-9]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have not seen anyone saying they "shouldn't" have traded or cut anyone. I have seen lots of people saying they didn't need to trade or cut certain players - Watkins, Dareus, Glenn whoever. 

We can split hairs all day. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

He's not wallowing in misery.

 

You asked him a question and he answered it.?

Ok.  Whatever.  This is getting tiresome.  You guys go ahead and be skeptical and pessimistic if you want.  For me, as one who has seen a helluva lot worse Bills teams since beginning my fandom in 1960,  I look forward to seeing how some of these young guys do, and unlike some I don't assume the worst case scenario.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

We can split hairs all day. 

 

It isn't splitting hairs though. There is a big difference. One is saying the team was wrong the other is saying there was another way. The two things are most definitely not the same. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Nobody is capable of putting you in your place. The hope is that when confronted with enough rational thought, you can achieve the requisite level of wisdom and do that all by yourself. 

 

Good luck with that. We’ll be watching. 

 

 

First of all let me say I object to your use of the highlighted.    It's virtual paraphrasing of my "only you can make you happy" ...........which is ONLY to be used for eternal apologists.

 

Second.......yes you will be watching Scott because you need a place to channel your Bills issues.    Funny how unrelenting you are with your complaints about the Pegula owned Sabres organization.....but here........well you got excuses.    I guess because of the fact that most Sabres fans are fed up with the losing you can't find enough people to take your frustration on there so you just put it where it actually belongs......on the organization.    Try it here.    Fun fact:  Scott hasn't lost a game for the Bills yet. 

[K-9]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

It isn't splitting hairs though. There is a big difference. One is saying the team was wrong the other is saying there was another way. The two things are most definitely not the same. 

Like I said, we can split hairs all day long. "Shouldn't" is the same f***king thing as saying they were "wrong." You may be one of the saner posters that says there's another way, but the incessant whiners who know it all and complain about every f**king move in the rebuild are convinced they got it wrong. Maybe you're a tweener who questions why they made the decisions they made and more power to you. But the chronic complainers are a different lot. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Didn’t I read that they were lucky to sneak in and they weren’t real contenders? I thought I read that, so they do comment...... ?

Sneaking in is still getting in. Playing in the playoffs when not expected to is still an accomplishment. While some people consider it to be a mirage I know for a fact that it is a reality. For those who don't believe it I suggest that they check the record books. It's in black and white. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Sneaking in is still getting in. Playing in the playoffs when not expected to is still an accomplishment. While some people consider it to be a mirage I know for a fact that it is a reality. For those who don't believe it I suggest that they check the record books. It's in black and white. 

Some don't want facts to obscure their opinions.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Like I said, we can split hairs all day long. "Shouldn't" is the same f***king thing as saying they were "wrong." You may be one of the saner posters that says there's another way, but the incessant whiners who know it all and complain about every f**king move in the rebuild are convinced they got it wrong. Maybe you're a tweener who questions why they made the decisions they made and more power to you. But the chronic complainers are a different lot. 

 

I didn't dispute shouldn't is the same thing. I disputed there were people saying shouldn't and not needn't. Which is a different thing. To me the biggest issue with the debate is that anyone who questions gets classed as a complainer. 

[K-9]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

First of all let me say I object to your use of the highlighted.    It's virtual paraphrasing of my "only you can make you happy" ...........which is ONLY to be used for eternal apologists.

 

Second.......yes you will be watching Scott because you need a place to channel your Bills issues.    Funny how unrelenting you are with your complaints about the Pegula owned Sabres organization.....but here........well you got excuses.    I guess because of the fact that most Sabres fans are fed up with the losing you can't find enough people to take your frustration on there so you just put it where it actually belongs......on the organization.    Try it here.    Fun fact:  Scott hasn't lost a game for the Bills yet. 

My Bills issues. Laughing my F ing ass off as the kids say today. When one has perspective, one doesn't have issues. Get a grip, junior. 

 

You are the biggest tool in this forum, regardless of how many testimonials to your in person tailgate "great guy" personality to the contrary. The fact you conflate complaints about the Sabres head coach with everything Bills, an organization I worked for long ago, is asinine. But in your ever present need to stretch to make a non-jointed point, you insist on treating the two as equal opportunities. I'm curious as to why such a "nice guy" in person has to resort to the kind of childish behavior you indulge in here. I can offer several psychological insights as to perhaps why, but it would fall on deaf ears. Instead, I'll just say you can go F yourself until your dick falls off. You simply aren't worth the effort. 

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't dispute shouldn't is the same thing. I disputed there were people saying shouldn't and not needn't. Which is a different thing. To me the biggest issue with the debate is that anyone who questions gets classed as a complainer. 

Are we really gonna keep splitting hairs? Go ahead, have at it. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

To you it is tiresome. I understand that. To me it isn't. It is fascinating. I am, pardon the pun, a "process" guy. I always have been in every facet of life. That is why McDermott is my kind of coach. To me analysing the strategic choices made and the alternative options and trying to surmise the range of possible outcomes is genuinely more interesting than arguing about who our number 1 receiver is going into training camp. That is the little stuff. I want to worry about the big questions. It is just the way I am wired. 

You are misconstruing what I am saying. I, like you, am fascinated by the process and journey. Watching a team disassembled and then being reconstructed is to an extent more intriguing than the W/Ls. When you take on a major project the journey with all its twists and turns and ups and downs there are so many decisions that come into play. There are different stages in building a roster and different measurements in the equation.

 

I'm not going to get encumbered by a particular decision when so many decisions are made in a short period of time. Sometimes you make the right call and sometimes you don't. How you handle your mistakes is just as important as how you handle your successes.

 

The most important issue for me beyond the qb issue is how the OL comes together and performs. I'm not looking back----I'm looking forward. I'm optimistic.    

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Sneaking in is still getting in. Playing in the playoffs when not expected to is still an accomplishment. While some people consider it to be a mirage I know for a fact that it is a reality. For those who don't believe it I suggest that they check the record books. It's in black and white. 

 

And teams "sneak in" most year. The Miami team that made it the year before we did "snuck in" they were the worst DVOA team to make it at the time (think we pipped them in 2017 but not totally sure). The Giants team that won the first of their two New England Superbowls snuck in... the 7-9 Seahawks snuck in and won a wildcard game. Didn't the Chargers make it one year when a KC Field Goal kicker missed a 15 yard chip shot? I would say every other year at least a team sneaks in. The Bills should apologise to nobody that in 2017 it was them.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't dispute shouldn't is the same thing. I disputed there were people saying shouldn't and not needn't. Which is a different thing. To me the biggest issue with the debate is that anyone who questions gets classed as a complainer. 

 

I think it's more an issue of not questioning, but never doing anything BUT questioning. Even THAT I can live with, but there’s no need to act arrogant, abrasive or dismissive. Ignore all you want, don’t be a jerk.  We’re all Bills fans. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I think it's more an issue of not questioning, but never doing anything BUT questioning. Even THAT I can live with, but there’s no need to act arrogant, abrasive or dismissive. Ignore all you want, don’t be a jerk.  We’re all Bills fans. 

 

Well indeed. Debate and disagreement can and should happen respectfully. 

[3rdand12]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are misconstruing what I am saying. I, like you, am fascinated by the process and journey. Watching a team disassembled and then being reconstructed is to an extent more intriguing than the W/Ls. When you take on a major project the journey with all its twists and turns and ups and downs there are so many decisions that come into play. There are different stages in building a roster and different measurements in the equation.

 

I'm not going to get encumbered by a particular decision when so many decisions are made in a short period of time. Sometimes you make the right call and sometimes you don't. How you handle your mistakes is just as important as how you handle your successes.

 

The most important issue for me beyond the qb issue is how the OL comes together and performs. I'm not looking back----I'm looking forward. I'm optimistic.    

I am down with this post

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well indeed. Debate and disagreement can and should happen respectfully. 

democratic dialogue may have lost it's foundational foot hold more recently.
Good discourse is a wonderful diversion.
overly defending any talking point is bad form.

hence the agree to disagree disclaimer used here.

Go Bills

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

I am down with this post

I am perplexed and befuddled. Is being down with a post better than being up with it? I am so uncool that I will never be cool no matter how I try.  

[3rdand12]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well indeed. Debate and disagreement can and should happen respectfully. 

yes Sir,  it certainly should 

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I am perplexed and befuddled. Is being down with a post better than being up with it? I am so uncool that I will never be cool no matter how I try.  

I had hoped i might catch your good eye with this one.
 

Roughly translated ? I approve of your comments
Hopefully that defuddles your perplexions.

Edited June 16, 2019 by 3rdand12

[Fixxxer]

Imagine this thread had we not broke the playoffs drought......

 

 

All hail Jaur....err..... McDermott!!!

[thebandit27]

Wow, we're way off the beaten path here.

[K-9]

56 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Ok.  Whatever.  This is getting tiresome.  You guys go ahead and be skeptical and pessimistic if you want.  For me, as one who has seen a helluva lot worse Bills teams since beginning my fandom in 1960,  I look forward to seeing how some of these young guys do, and unlike some I don't assume the worst case scenario.

Helluva lot worse indeed! 

 

I’ve said this many times over the years here: from 1960 thru 1984 the Bills had the worst winning percentage of any team in the four major pro sports league in America. Yes, it was frustrating. Yes, we were often envious. But we never wavered, never lost hope, and never lost perspective. 

 

And these ungrateful punks think they know what suffering is? Give me a break. 

[Augie]

The Bills are still in WNY!!!

 

 

Remember when that was the big worry? It doesn’t give them a pass in any way, but I’m just glad we still have a team to talk about. Other than some Bird/Magic and Jordan era Bulls, I’ve watched very little NBA since the Braves left. 

[JohnC]

36 minutes ago, Augie said:

The Bills are still in WNY!!!

 

 

Remember when that was the big worry? It doesn’t give them a pass in any way, but I’m just glad we still have a team to talk about. Other than some Bird/Magic and Jordan era Bulls, I’ve watched very little NBA since the Braves left. 

John Hummer was a stiff. 

Bob McAdoo was a gem. 

Ernie DiGregorio can pass but couldn't play defense. 

Randy Smith is one of the fastest players ever in the league. 

Marvin Barnes was a crazy drug addict that everyone in the league knew about it but us. 

Paul Snyder is a conniving bastard. He starting selling players for cash and pocketed the money. He then left the city holding the bag. Shortly after the Bird/Magic era happened. The Aud was dark.

?

 

[Happy]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

@Happy Gilmore might know somebody? 

 

Yeah, I'll get Bob Barker on it.

[Augie]

27 minutes ago, JohnC said:

John Hummer was a stiff. 

Bob McAdoo was a gem. 

Ernie DiGregorio can pass but couldn't play defense. 

Randy Smith is one of the fastest players ever in the league. 

Marvin Barnes was a crazy drug addict that everyone in the league knew about it but us. 

Paul Snyder is a conniving bastard. He starting selling players for cash and pocketed the money. He then left the city holding the bag. Shortly after the Bird/Magic era happened. The Aud was dark.

?

 

Bob Kauffman lived right behind us and my sister used to babysit for them. I once jumped off the roof of a garage....into a snowdrift....that was covering his VW Bug. Oops!  Jim McMillan was awesome. Gar Heard used to bring rain with his jumper. The players actually tried during the regular season. YAY! 

[K-9]

50 minutes ago, JohnC said:

John Hummer was a stiff. 

Bob McAdoo was a gem. 

Ernie DiGregorio can pass but couldn't play defense. 

Randy Smith is one of the fastest players ever in the league. 

Marvin Barnes was a crazy drug addict that everyone in the league knew about it but us. 

Paul Snyder is a conniving bastard. He starting selling players for cash and pocketed the money. He then left the city holding the bag. Shortly after the Bird/Magic era happened. The Aud was dark.

?

 

I love this post if for no other reason than the sheer nostalgia it conjures.

 

I also loved the Braves as a kid back in the day.

 

But before that, WNY’s claim to basketball fame was Little Three Basketball and the great local college players that made it so great. And living two blocks from the Deleware b-ball courts, I was privileged to witness some of the best pick up games in history. Bob Lanier, Randy Smith, Calvin Murphy and a younger Mel Montgomery were just a few of the stars that played pick up on those hallowed courts. It was our version of Rucker. Quite the thrill for us little kids to watch. 

 

And SCREW Paul Snyder and John Y Brown. We supported the Braves and got screwed. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by K-9

[K-9]

29 minutes ago, Augie said:

Bob Kauffman lived right behind us and my sister used to babysit for them. I once jumped off the roof of a garage....into a snowdrift....that was covering his VW Bug. Oops!  Jim McMillan was awesome. Gar Heard used to bring rain with his jumper. The players actually tried during the regular season. YAY! 

More awesomeness. 

 

The Braves were ascendant and we got screwed as a fans. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Helluva lot worse indeed! 

 

I’ve said this many times over the years here: from 1960 thru 1984 the Bills had the worst winning percentage of any team in the four major pro sports league in America. Yes, it was frustrating. Yes, we were often envious. But we never wavered, never lost hope, and never lost perspective. 

 

And these ungrateful punks think they know what suffering is? Give me a break. 

 

 

Well in fairness,  they did win 2 AFL titles........which was the most they could do at that time..........and were a win away from SB I the following year.........and had a couple contenders under Knox.

 

They weren't out of contention for 19 straight years like the current Bills run of futility.

 

After watching you interact with Gunner(calmly debating you) and myself(sarcastically mocking you) and seeing that your responses in both cases were a very similar level of unflattering petulance.............I think you should research the phrase "once a man, twice a child".  

[Augie]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Well, it is easy to question and be skeptical when the team is more often than not bad year in and year out. 

 

I know, I know. I'm an ungrateful punk and a whiner of a fan.The team is still in Buffalo! and it's not as bad as the 1960-1984 run so how dare I? ?

 

It would be a beautiful world if we ALL could visit the common ground a bit more often. No need for people to live in the extremes. There’s good, and there’s bad. Right now I like the trend. 

[Gugny]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Excuses are the death of process.

 

Plenty of Bills fans from your area that would gladly give you free rides to the game since they are going anyway.........you just don't want to ride your bike to their house in the dark.

 

And you could get on a Bills budget.

 

First thing, stop ordering take-out for dinner every night.   There is your season ticket.    And the $10 a day you save on tipping for takeout(why?)............that's your club seat upgrade right there.........you could be sitting next to @teef and getting free dental advice.......which is worth more than the damn seats!   

 

But if you don't have the process in you then keep raking your leaves from one side of the lawn to the other on Sundays and then coming in to complain about the takes of people who actually watched the games. SMH.

 

 

Ordering takeout every night?  Dude ... you don't even know.  Furthermore, I'm not stupid enough to tip someone for handing me a bag of food that I'm paying for (that's in a different thread).

 

I drive a Nissan Versa Note.  The drive is the least of the cost. 

 

If someone who watches the games live/at the stadium thinks they have a better vantage point than I do watching the games on TV .. said person is a) a moron and b) well ... a moron.  But, of course, I'm not accusing you of being that person, because that wouldn't be nice.  

 

I can get free advice from Teef anytime during our nightly Facetime sessions, so I don't need to drive to OP for that.

 

And if you keep shaking your head like that, you won't be able to watch the 5 second replays on the Jumbotron while I'm on my couch, saving money and watching multiple slow motion replays of what you just missed.

 

Love ya, baby.

[Augie]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Excuses are the death of process.

 

Plenty of Bills fans from your area that would gladly give you free rides to the game since they are going anyway.........you just don't want to ride your bike to their house in the dark.

 

And you could get on a Bills budget.

 

First thing, stop ordering take-out for dinner every night.   There is your season ticket.    And the $10 a day you save on tipping for takeout(why?)............that's your club seat upgrade right there.........you could be sitting next to @teef and getting free dental advice.......which is worth more than the damn seats!   

 

But if you don't have the process in you then keep raking your leaves from one side of the lawn to the other on Sundays and then coming in to complain about the takes of people who actually watched the games. SMH.

 

 

This is exactly the stuff I regret on this board. Despite what you assert in your PM’s, I’m not weak, thin skinned or fragile. If you think I’m intimidated by your brashness, you are wildly confused. I just have a sense of right and wrong. I don’t tolerate poor behavior well. I prefer mature adults.  You come up short far too often. 

 

I don’t mind differing views, in fact I enjoy info and challenging opinions. Unfortunately what you offer is overwhelmingly lost in your trash. 

 

Don’t give me the “Big Boy Tough Guy Internet that’s what we do talk”. Don’t try to act like you are on a higher plane. It’s trashy behavior, and I think you could be so much better.  

 

(Let me guess, now you’ll be kidding.....old) 

[Rico]

Only a master can make people jump this high. 

[Gugny]

11 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is exactly the stuff I regret on this board. Despite what you assert in your PM’s, I’m not weak, thin skinned or fragile. If you think I’m intimidated by your brashness, you are wildly confused. I just have a sense of right and wrong. I don’t tolerate poor behavior well. I prefer mature adults.  You come up short far too often. 

 

I don’t mind differing views, in fact I enjoy info and challenging opinions. Unfortunately what you offer is overwhelmingly lost in your trash. 

 

Don’t give me the “Big Boy Tough Guy Internet that’s what we do talk”. Don’t try to act like you are on a higher plane. It’s trashy behavior, and I think you could be so much better.  

 

(Let me guess, now you’ll be kidding.....old) 

 

He claims to be "untouchable."  Can get away with saying anything he wants.  Says no mods can touch him.  Meh.  We'll see ...

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

He claims to be "untouchable."  Can get away with saying anything he wants.  Says no mods can touch him.  Meh.  We'll see ...

 

I don’t blame mods for a tough job with lots of borderline calls. Ultimately it’s on the poster to see if they can be a decent human being. Some struggle more than others. Football acumen has value, but at what price? A simple rule in life: don’t be a jerk. It sounds simple enough....

[Deranged Rhino]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

This is exactly the stuff I regret on this board. Despite what you assert in your PM’s, I’m not weak, thin skinned or fragile. If you think I’m intimidated by your brashness, you are wildly confused. I just have a sense of right and wrong. I don’t tolerate poor behavior well. I prefer mature adults.  You come up short far too often. 

 

I don’t mind differing views, in fact I enjoy info and challenging opinions. Unfortunately what you offer is overwhelmingly lost in your trash. 

 

Don’t give me the “Big Boy Tough Guy Internet that’s what we do talk”. Don’t try to act like you are on a higher plane. It’s trashy behavior, and I think you could be so much better.  

 

(Let me guess, now you’ll be kidding.....old) 

 

His PM game has always been the worst.  

[eball]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well indeed. Debate and disagreement can and should happen respectfully. 

 

There are certain posters on this forum who have never acknowledged their takes were wrong on any issue.  And I assure you none of them are batting 1.000.

 

The pseudo-anonymity of a forum like this unfortunately brings out the worst in some people.

[Cripple Creek]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ah I was on about the specific point about playoff appearances. Your comment seemed to suggest that a playoff appearance had been spun into a negative. 

I asked him about the playoff appearance and he indeed spun it negative.  This thread is too long, probably back in the 30's, but it's there.

[Magox]

19 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am a big McDermott guy you don't need to preach to me. I am not sure saying the Bills lucked in is a negative though. 

 

I don't know how you define negative but implying that the Bills got into the playoffs by virtue of luck minimizes their 9 victories.  My dad always used to tell me that it's a funny thing that the usually the good are the luckiest ones.   It's an idiom that basically says that often times in order to capitalize on some luck you have to put yourself in a position to be lucky. 

 

 If the Bills had the sort of season that everyone thought they'd have or won one less game, doesn't matter what Cincinnati would have done it wouldn't have mattered to them.  So for all those that characterize or attempt to minimize the Bills finally getting into the playoffs after nearly 2 decades with a seriously depleted team when no one gave them a shot is a tremendous feat that is lost upon the detractors.