John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[K-9]

Just now, Chemical said:

 

He had to admit his mistake. It was one of the most obvious GM failures in recent memory. You don’t get “credit” for admitting you caused an obvious disaster. 

 

As far as Dareus goes. They could’ve had more patience. Same with oreilly and the sabres.  They’re just overreacting to perceived character issues and losing talented players for nothing. His former coach had no problem being reunited with him. 

No, YOU don’t give him credit. Others can and I do. He tried something, it didn’t work. He owned it, moved on, and tried to correct it. You seem to see that as some sort of character flaw. Are you so f**king perfect that you’ve never screwed up, admitted it, and tried to correct it? 

 

Dareus wanted out of Buffalo. Period. End of story. His character issues notwithstanding, and there were several. His chronic tardiness issues, showing up fat and out of shape, being one more infraction away from a suspension, and half assed efforts the first month of the season, were not “perceived.” They were DEMONSTRATED. More than a few times, too. More patience? McDermott gave him 10 months to get on board and turn it around. Other coaches may not have been so patient.

 

As for reuniting with Marrone? Good for them! Feel free to play some Peaches and Herb in their honor. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

He didn't have to admit his mistake.  I agree with K-9; kudos to Beane for owning up to it and making better decisions moving forward.  It's not like every ***** GM since Kelly left hasn't completely ***** up the QB position.  But let's keep busting Beane's balls for a mistake that he made and moved on from.

 

I was a big Dareus fan.  But it was as clear as day that he needed to go.  He didn't want to play for the Bills anymore and he showed it in the end.

 

Trading him was the right thing to do if one takes the time to put the decision into context.

 

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes it was.  Unquestionably.  

 

I haven’t heard any convincing arguments for the trade. “He didn’t want to be here” isn’t good enough considering all the other reasons it was a mistake. 

 

Sonwe we are giving “kudos” and “credit” for mistakes almost immediately? Grow up 

 

 

[Gugny]

Just now, Chemical said:

 

 

I haven’t heard any convincing arguments for the trade. “He didn’t want to be here” isn’t good enough considering all the other reasons it was a mistake. 

 

Sonwe we are giving “kudos” and “credit” for mistakes almost immediately? Grow up 

 

 

 

Trading a player who is miserable to the point they're not playing is a good enough reason.

 

Many GMs in the NFL and other sports do NOT acknowledge mistakes.  In fact, most try to either justify them or place blame elsewhere.

 

So I absolutely give him credit for putting himself out there, taking his lumps and moving in a better direction.

 

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

 

I haven’t heard any convincing arguments for the trade. “He didn’t want to be here” isn’t good enough considering all the other reasons it was a mistake. 

 

Sonwe we are giving “kudos” and “credit” for mistakes almost immediately? Grow up 

 

 

 

You don't want to be convinced.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Trading a player who is miserable to the point they're not playing is a good enough reason.

 

Many GMs in the NFL and other sports do NOT acknowledge mistakes.  In fact, most try to either justify them or place blame elsewhere.

 

So I absolutely give him credit for putting himself out there, taking his lumps and moving in a better direction.

 

 

Ok fine give him credit whatever that means. But will you admit the debit from the mistake is larger than the credit you’re trying so hard to give him?

[Gugny]

Just now, Chemical said:

 

Ok fine give him credit whatever that means. But will you admit the debit from the mistake is larger than the credit you’re trying so hard to give him?

 

I'll do nothing of the sort.  You act like the Bills were ONE RUN STUFFER away from the ***** Super Bowl.  Get your head out of your ass, dude.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

 

I haven’t heard any convincing arguments for the trade. “He didn’t want to be here” isn’t good enough considering all the other reasons it was a mistake. 

 

Sonwe we are giving “kudos” and “credit” for mistakes almost immediately? Grow up 

 

 

Grow up?  Try again junior.  If you look at what McD and Beane want to do in constructing a team it was unquestionably correct.  Again, your highest paid guy can't be your biggest problem child.  And McD tried to get through to him as pointed out above.  He would not get with the program so they traded him.  And he has about ten more combined tackles and 1 more sack than Star last year.  We did not lose much; both guys are looked at more as guys who take on multiple blocks and tie things up for other guys to make plays. 

 

You are stuck in a time warp where Dareus was the guy that had an AllPro year before his big contract.  He wasn't that guy under McD, he isn't that guy now in Jville.

Edited June 18, 2019 by oldmanfan

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

I'll do nothing of the sort.  You act like the Bills were ONE RUN STUFFER away from the ***** Super Bowl.  Get your head out of your ass, dude.

 

Haha ok then you’re obviously delusional. He traded Mccarron and started peterman but the fact that he admitted it was a mistake is a positive overall for you?

[K-9]

Just now, Chemical said:

 

 

I haven’t heard any convincing arguments for the trade. “He didn’t want to be here” isn’t good enough considering all the other reasons it was a mistake. 

 

Sonwe we are giving “kudos” and “credit” for mistakes almost immediately? Grow up 

 

 

What  more convincing do you need? He wanted out and acted like it. That’s all the reason a head coach needs and he was accommodated. 

 

Ah, but it doesn’t jibe with YOUR expertise in running an NFL team and so it was wrong. I understand. People of your particular genius always seem to need more convincing. A pity you have to suffer McBeane and other less visionary football savants like yourself. Must be very frustrating for you. 

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Trading a player who is miserable to the point they're not playing is a good enough reason.

 

Many GMs in the NFL and other sports do NOT acknowledge mistakes.  In fact, most try to either justify them or place blame elsewhere.

 

So I absolutely give him credit for putting himself out there, taking his lumps and moving in a better direction.

 

You’d think more fans would find that refreshing. 

 

Someone should warn the never satisfied masses there will be other mistakes made by this and future regimes. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

What  more convincing do you need? He wanted out and acted like it. That’s all the reason a head coach needs and he was accommodated. 

 

Ah, but it doesn’t jibe with YOUR expertise in running an NFL team and so it was wrong. I understand. People of your particular genius always seem to need more convincing. A pity you have to suffer McBeane and other less visionary football savants like yourself. Must be very frustrating for you. 

 

so by that same logic the oreilly trade was a good one? At least there they got a late 1st rd pick. 

 

Maybe y’all should follow Beane’s example and admit when he makes a mistake. I would give you a large amount of “credit” if you did. 

[Gugny]

Just now, Chemical said:

 

Haha ok then you’re obviously delusional. He traded Mccarron and started peterman but the fact that he admitted it was a mistake is a positive overall for you?

 

Having Peterman and a rookie heading into the regular season without a veteran in the mix was the mistake.

 

Trading McCarron was a no-brainer.

 

If you disagree, then you simply weren't watching the entire pre-season evolve.

 

The positive is that Beane showed that he held himself accountable.  I'm really, really sorry if you're so shallow as to not see that.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Having Peterman and a rookie heading into the regular season without a veteran in the mix was the mistake.

 

Trading McCarron was a no-brainer.

 

If you disagree, then you simply weren't watching the entire pre-season evolve.

 

The positive is that Beane showed that he held himself accountable.  I'm really, really sorry if you're so shallow as to not see that.

 

Shallow? I just want you to be aware that the personal insults are starting to fly from a few ppl and I’m not one of them. Seems to be a trend when someone tries to be the least bit critical of this coach or GM. 

 

I don’t care what he admits to. It was a mistake. It’s a negative stain on his record as a GM. He has made a lot of them in my opinion. Hopefully it works out. We will see. 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

Haha ok then you’re obviously delusional. He traded Mccarron and started peterman but the fact that he admitted it was a mistake is a positive overall for you?

He didn't say that was a mistake.  I believe he said not bringing another veteran in like Anderson was a mistake.  Trading McCarron was understandable; Peterman beat him out in camp.  Plus McCarron fractured his leg, didn't he.  And yes, it is refreshing to see the GM admit a mistake publicly and no, it doesn't excuse it.

 

Playing Peterman as often as they did was wrong.  And I don't think anyone would disagree.

[K-9]

Just now, Chemical said:

 

so by that same logic the oreilly trade was a good one? At least there they got a late 1st rd pick. 

 

Maybe y’all should follow Beane’s example and admit when he makes a mistake. I would give you a large amount of “credit” if you did. 

Not a question of good and bad. 

 

Just necessary, unfortunately. 

 

Some situations become untenable over time. 

 

Maybe “y’all” should acquaint yourself with the volumes of posts where we’ve all said on multiple occasions during the course of the seasons they’ve been here that they made mistakes. 

 

It’s a question of perspective and being grownup about situations we have no control over.

[Gugny]

Just now, Chemical said:

 

Shallow? I just want you to be aware that the personal insults are starting to fly from a few ppl and I’m not one of them. Seems to be a trend when someone tries to be the least bit critical of this coach or GM. 

 

I don’t care what he admits to. It was a mistake. It’s a negative stain on his record as a GM. He has made a lot of them in my opinion. Hopefully it works out. We will see. 

 

I was very critical of the lack of preparedness re: the QB position.  I've been more critical of McDermott's in-game coaching than anything Beane has done wrong (or what I perceive to be wrong).

 

But I also give credit where it's due.  It is rare for a GM of any sport to come out and say, "yeah ... I effed up."  And when he did it, my first thought was, "how refreshing."  It showed that he is accountable.  It showed that he was responsive.

 

Let's both take a moment and make a list of all NFL GMs who never ***** up.  Okay, I'm done.  Here's what I came up with:

 

 

[oldmanfan]

GMs all make mistakes.  HCs all make mistakes.  Rookie QBs make mistakes.  But many fans think they should never make one, and that growth into a position is unacceptable.  That's not the way the world works.  You make mistakes and those with integrity admit them, try to learn from them and work hard to not make another one.

 

Bill Polian I think once said a GM is really successful if 50% of his draft picks wind up making the roster.  

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Just now, K-9 said:

Not a question of good and bad. 

 

Just necessary, unfortunately. 

 

Some situations become untenable over time. 

 

Maybe “y’all” should acquaint yourself with the volumes of posts where we’ve all said on multiple occasions during the course of the seasons they’ve been here that they made mistakes. 

 

It’s a question of perspective and being grownup about situations we have no control over.

 

No it’s not. It’s a debate about whether the GM is doing a good job.  Nothing more nothing less.

 

You’re using that as a cop out. As soon as you get to a dead end in your logic it’s “what does it matter anyway?! Let’s just move on”

And that is childish not grownup. 

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

GMs all make mistakes.  HCs all make mistakes.  Rookie QBs make mistakes.  But many fans think they should never make one, and that growth into a position is unacceptable.  That's not the way the world works.  You make mistakes and those with integrity admit them, try to learn from them and work hard to not make another one.

 

Bill Polian I think once said a GM is really successful if 50% of his draft picks wind up making the roster.  

 

I agree and. No i don’t think they should never make one. I just noticed a trend of poor decisions. Some obvious, some are just my opinion. But the Dareus trade is an obvious one as is the QB situation to start the season. 

 

 

[JohnC]

27 minutes ago, K-9 said:

No, YOU don’t give him credit. Others can and I do. He tried something, it didn’t work. He owned it, moved on, and tried to correct it. You seem to see that as some sort of character flaw. Are you so f**king perfect that you’ve never screwed up, admitted it, and tried to correct it? 

 

Dareus wanted out of Buffalo. Period. End of story. His character issues notwithstanding, and there were several. His chronic tardiness issues, showing up fat and out of shape, being one more infraction away from a suspension, and half assed efforts the first month of the season, were not “perceived.” They were DEMONSTRATED. More than a few times, too. More patience? McDermott gave him 10 months to get on board and turn it around. Other coaches may not have been so patient.

 

As for reuniting with Marrone? Good for them! Feel free to play some Peaches and Herb in their honor.

Soothing, so soothing. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=music+peaches+and+herb&view=detail&mid=2F034BA71585DEC2ECA72F034BA71585DEC2ECA7&FORM=VIRE

[K-9]

Just now, Chemical said:

 

No it’s not. It’s a debate about whether the GM is doing a good job.  Nothing more nothing less.

 

You’re using that as a cop out. As soon as you get to a dead end in your logic it’s “what does it matter anyway?! Let’s just move on”

And that is childish not grownup. 

Who’s at a dead end? The debate about whether the GM is doing a good job is a fluid situation. Imo, it’s a mixed bag at this time. 

 

Having perspective about not getting upset about things of out of your control, is a foundation of grownup thinking, whereas ranting and raving or otherwise getting upset is childish. Pretty simple concept. 

 

Can you refer me to a post of mine where I’ve said “what does it matter?” I’m sure I have at times, but in this discussion I don’t recall. And if I’m gonna be called out for it, I’d appreciate some context before I respond. 

Just now, JohnC said:

Soothing, so soothing. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=music+peaches+and+herb&view=detail&mid=2F034BA71585DEC2ECA72F034BA71585DEC2ECA7&FORM=VIRE

Marrone and Dareus are probably spooning to it as we speak.

[oldmanfan]

17 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

No it’s not. It’s a debate about whether the GM is doing a good job.  Nothing more nothing less.

 

You’re using that as a cop out. As soon as you get to a dead end in your logic it’s “what does it matter anyway?! Let’s just move on”

And that is childish not grownup. 

 

I agree and. No i don’t think they should never make one. I just noticed a trend of poor decisions. Some obvious, some are just my opinion. But the Dareus trade is an obvious one as is the QB situation to start the season. 

 

 

Given the fall off seen in Dareus' play, why do you think it was a bad decision?  Got rid of a guy with issues, cleared cap space.

 

Also, what do you see as good decisions made by the current regime?

[Augie]

If nothing else, this is a terrific demonstration of stamina!       ?

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Ohhh ok.

 

So because they sucked even more in that time span ranting now about a similarly pathetic run isn't allowed. 

 

Thanks for clearing things up. 

What is it about being in the playoffs in their first season that is so difficult for you to grasp?

[K-9]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Ohhh ok.

 

So because they sucked even more in that time span ranting now about a similarly pathetic run isn't allowed. 

 

Thanks for clearing things up. 

Who said it wasn’t allowed? You are free to rant and rave all you want so have at it. Just letting you know it could be much worse. 

 

Now it’s cleared up. 

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

? 

 

Im talking about a 19 year span. They made the playoffs one year which is going on 20 years in which they were bounced from the first round. 

 

For most people who follow the NFL, that's not a very good run.... 

 

You are free to carry on any way you like. That’s totally fine. I am also free to once again state that I think the whole “19 year” thing is lazy and tired. I get that that’s how long your frustration has run. I refuse to blame our current owners for anything that Ralph may or may not have done a decade or two ago. It seems petty and childish to me to count anything that happened before the Pegulas. They messed up with Rex, BADLY. They cut bait.

 

I like our current direction. You don’t have to, but I and many others do. It’s not been perfect (and it never will be), and I have some reservations, but I can’t wait to see this season play out. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Given the fall off seen in Dareus' play, why do you think it was a bad decision?  Got rid of a guy with issues, cleared cap space.

 

Also, what do you see as good decisions made by the current regime?

 

Fall off (you are being too kind), he has been a bust since signing his 2nd contract.  Let's add that his 2 best years and 1 1/2 worse years have been under the same HC.

If Ed Oliver puts up the same stats that Dareus's has for the last 4 years he would deservedly be called a bust.

For those who want to see his horrid play.................

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DareMa00.htm

 

So again, why are people crying for Dareus?

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

 

Marrone and Dareus are probably spooning to it as we speak.

I doubt it's going  happen because Marrone is not the cuddly type of guy. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So basically, box score scouting and raw stats tell the whole story here?  So when late July/early August opens up...I'm assuming Star isn't going to be running with the first team?

 

 

As I've said many times regarding Star.....the eyeball test says he was sluggish, didn't impact OL on contact and was too slow to disengage to be able to make plays..............the woeful numbers only confirm the eyeball test.

 

As for the other question.........when Kelvin Benjamin was running with the first team until the week that he was cut was that proof that they liked or were satisfied with what he was doing on the field?    I don't think so.........I think we all know that the situation was complicated by the fact that they swung a trade to get a player they were familiar with and were paying him $8M.    

[K-9]

Just now, JohnC said:

I doubt it's going  happen because Marrone is not the cuddly type of guy. 

He is if Dareus decided to make him his b**ch.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Fall off (you are being too kind), he has been a bust since signing his 2nd contract.  Let's add that his 2 best years and 1 1/2 worse years have been under the same HC.

If Ed Oliver puts up the same stats that Dareus's has for the last 4 years he would deservedly be called a bust.

For those who want to see his horrid play.................

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DareMa00.htm

 

So again, why are people crying for Dareus?

 

Because they see it as something they feel they can complain about. He had 10 sacks in 2014. He got paid. He has 10.5 ever since. Is that what I read? Hmmmmm

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

He is if Dareus decided to make him his b**ch.

Dareus has lost his aggression since he hustled the Bills for the grand contract. So if Marrone doesn't want to be a b***tch or a butch Dareus doesn't have the muscle to make him into one of his playmates.  

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Dareus has lost his aggression since he hustled the Bills for the grand contract. So if Marrone doesn't want to be a b***tch or a butch Dareus doesn't have the muscle to make him into one of his playmates.  

There is no aggression involved. Marrone and Dareus are so happy to be back in the loving embrace of each other’s arms, they spoon to Peaches and Herb of their own free will. 

[oldmanfan]

58 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

? 

 

Im talking about a 19 year span. They made the playoffs one year which is going on 20 years in which they were bounced from the first round. 

 

For most people who follow the NFL, that's not a very good run.... 

What does the current regime have to do with the previous 17 years?

[K-9]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

You don't want to be convinced.

Intractable is the word that comes to mind.

[3rdand12]

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I doubt it's going  happen because Marrone is not the cuddly type of guy. 

i still imagined a big fat cuddle puddle with Oscar Meyer Bologna sambwiches.Layered with Kraft single american cheese on TV trays nearby

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

What does the current regime have to do with the previous 17 years?

 

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

? 

 

Im talking about a 19 year span. They made the playoffs one year which is going on 20 years in which they were bounced from the first round. 

 

For most people who follow the NFL, that's not a very good run.... 

 

A more curious question ... why is the criticism limited to the post-Kelly years?

 

The Buffalo Bills have sucked in the vast majority of seasons they've been in the NFL.

 

They've had 18 winning seasons.  That's 38%.  And in four of those winning seasons, they didn't make the playoffs.

 

Now I'M MAD!!!!!!

 

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well yes he was brought in to play the 1 tech like Dareus...........which is a position that involves some stacking of blockers but also allows for more freedom to make plays than nose tackle.

 

But let's say Star was just signed to be a LOS bound nose tackle.............well the highest paid one of those is Damon Harrison who signed a 5 year $47M deal with the Giants with $24M guaranteed........... slightly less than Star's ABSURD contract and almost certainly the comp that Star's agent and the Bills used to come up with that number.

 

But Harrison and Lotulelei aren't on the same planet as players............Harrison is good for 75-80 tackles and 10+ backfield plays per year...........Star was only about 1/3 as productive in the previous years in Carolina when he signed that contract.......that's why it was panned by most observers at the time as the worst or one of the worst deals signed.

 

But last year he put up just 17 tackles and 1 TFL.     That's woeful and for Damon Harrison+  money at that spot.  

 

See Harrison Phillips stats and compare.........35 tackles and 6 backfield plays in 8% less snaps than Star.    What's Phillips worth?  $20M per?    That role/position traditionally does not pay well and yet McBeane paid Lotulelei like the best in the league.   

 

Face it......Star was a turd last year..........he hasn't even been good for a while.........basically since after his rookie year when he was a touted first round pick who was supposed to be a dominant player for years to come(sound familiar?).    That hasn't happened but it didn't stop McBeane from doubling down on their cap mess at DT1T.

 

What you "don't seem to understand" is how out of whack that contract is.    It's horrible.

 

Whether you look at numbers or tape Harrison Phillips outplayed Star. 

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I agree, but I also believe McDermott knew he didn't want Dareus before he was even hired.

 

I believe this also. I also understand it. I had no issue with the Dareus trade even though it left us with the worst DT in the whole NFL (and one of the worst I have ever watched) playing significant snaps from thereon in. They couldn't build what they wanted to build while pandering to Dareus. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Because they see it as something they feel they can complain about. He had 10 sacks in 2014. He got paid. He has 10.5 ever since. Is that what I read? Hmmmmm

 

Actually you counted 2 sacks twice (2017).  It's only 8.5 in the last 4 years.

Dareus was forced into a restructured contract where this is his last year on JAX.

He's got a 5.5 million cap hit with a 2.5 million dead cap hit next year when they DO NOT pick up a 22 million club option.

Just more proof as to his current production.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/marcell-dareus-7718/

[Passepartout]

Yeah as 2018 is in the past. 2019 Is now and just really hope that they can put it behind in 2018. Good luck. Just really like the GM and coach despite a lousy 2018.

[K-9]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I believe this also. I also understand it. I had no issue with the Dareus trade even though it left us with the worst DT in the whole NFL (and one of the worst I have ever watched) playing significant snaps from thereon in. They couldn't build what they wanted to build while pandering to Dareus. 

As I suggested to Gugny earlier, if McDermott wanted Dareus gone as early as when he was hired, why did he wait 10 months and suffer Dareus’s antics in the meantime. I’m convinced he thought he’d try turning Dareus around first, given his great talent...when he wanted to display it.

[GunnerBill]

Put it this way.... the regime has already shown more patience with Star than they did with Dareus. That might be because while he is rubbish he is their rubbish. 

Just now, K-9 said:

As I suggested to Gugny earlier, if McDermott wanted Dareus gone as early as when he was hired, why did he wait 10 months and suffer Dareus’s antics in the meantime. I’m convinced he thought he’d try turning Dareus around first, given his great talent...when he wanted to display it.

 

I think they hope they could get through 2017 and then cut bait. They knew their alternative - Adolphus Washington - absolutely sucked and so I think they wanted to get to offseason where they would replace Darues more directly with Star. But I don't think he was ever, at any stage, part of McDermott's long term vision for the Bills.