John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The irony is that from a rebuild perspective this roster, cap structure and organization has dramatically changed in a short period of time. Go back and look at the roster inherited and at the current roster entering into the third year. If you factor in the fact that McDermott took over before he had control of the organizational apparatus then the change within that short time span has been even more dramatic and impressive.

 

Before he took over the Bills hadn't had a franchise qb in a quarter century. The McBeane tandem drafted their franchise qb (hopefully) in their second draft or in reality in their first full control draft. That's nothing to sneer at. While many in the  lamenting chorus are fixated on Peterman, a fifth round draft pick, that same discordant chorus avoids acknowledging the creative maneuvering it took to select Josh Allen.

 

My general point is that in a relatively short time span this organization has made emphatic moves that although in the short term have proven to be painful but also purposeful. No one is requiring anyone to agree with everything that has been done but not being open to the possibility, if not the probability, that this franchise is in a good position to succeed makes little sense to me. 

Good points all.  It is of course unrealistic to think that every move made by new management will be successful.  Some that Beane and McD have made were wrong, and some will continue to be wrong.  And some right, as it is in every organization.  Your point about them changing dramatically in a short time period is interesting.  I have been the new guy coming in, and I have seen the new guy coming in, and there are generally two ways to go about it.  One is to come in and quietly observe for a while, see what's working and what isn't, then gradually effect changes.  The other is to rip the Band-Aid off and get after it.  I think McD was the latter; I think he had done his homework, knew what was going on with this team under Rex, knew the culture had to change, and convinced Terry it needed to get done quickly to move forward. 

[Shaw66]

29 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The irony is that from a rebuild perspective this roster, cap structure and organization has dramatically changed in a short period of time. Go back and look at the roster inherited and at the current roster entering into the third year. If you factor in the fact that McDermott took over before he had control of the organizational apparatus then the change within that short time span has been even more dramatic and impressive.

 

Before he took over the Bills hadn't had a franchise qb in a quarter century. The McBeane tandem drafted their franchise qb (hopefully) in their second draft or in reality in their first full control draft. That's nothing to sneer at. While many in the  lamenting chorus are fixated on Peterman, a fifth round draft pick, that same discordant chorus avoids acknowledging the creative maneuvering it took to select Josh Allen.

 

My general point is that in a relatively short time span this organization has made emphatic moves that although in the short term have proven to be painful but also purposeful. No one is requiring anyone to agree with everything that has been done but not being open to the possibility, if not the probability, that this franchise is in a good position to succeed makes little sense to me. 

This is excellent. With retirements of Eric and Kyle, this is really a brand new team.  That is an accomplishment in and of itself.  

 

Now, for the winning ...

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is excellent. With retirements of Eric and Kyle, this is really a brand new team.  That is an accomplishment in and of itself.  

 

Now, for the winning …

This offseason was dedicated to putting Josh in a position to succeed. Is the OL reconstruction going to be successful? Is the receiving unit going to be upgraded with the offseason additions? As you succinctly stated: Now for the winning. There are two factions on different sides of the fence. You and I are on the side with the green grass while some others are on the side with the barren dirt. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

This offseason was dedicated to putting Josh in a position to succeed. Is the OL reconstruction going to be successful? Is the receiving unit going to be upgraded with the offseason additions? As you succinctly stated: Now for the winning. There are two factions on different sides of the fence. You and I are on the side with the green grass while some others are on the side with the barren dirt. 

I'm sticking with what I wrote a month ago: we are witnessing the beginning of a decade of sustained excellence.  It's coming.  I hope I live to see it. 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Don't bring up your role with the Bills as if it's pertinent to the discussion and then refuse to discuss what your role was or why you were fired.

 

I don't really care about your bad takes regarding the Bills. But this is genuinely awful. Maybe take a break from posting. If it was up to me, after this comment that break would be enforced.

[JohnC]

35 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't really care about your bad takes regarding the Bills. But this is genuinely awful. Maybe take a break from posting. If it was up to me, after this comment that break would be enforced.

Some people recoil at the notion that someone would challenge what they believe to be their unchallengeable positions on an issues. Instead of disagreeing with a point in a discussion it is easier to resort to smearing the individual. That's what happened with the Warrow exchanges and also in this case with K-9. K-9 can defend his positions well enough with anyone. He's not sensitive to his views being challenged or even criticized. He can capably mix it up with anyone. But this repeated descent into sidetracking a discussion by personal slings is the standard behavior of odious scoundrels 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

43 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't really care about your bad takes regarding the Bills. But this is genuinely awful. Maybe take a break from posting. If it was up to me, after this comment that break would be enforced.

  

Un-clutch your pearls or block me.........easy fix.

 

My bad takes on the Bills since this board began are few and far between, unfortunately.

 

Case in point..........the new thread about the 2016 draft...........I am pretty sure @eballand @K-9 were both pretty irked about my takes on Shaq and Ragnuts after that draft...........but that gets conveniently forgotten as they move on to their next outrage.     

 

Your bad takes...........well that's 7K and counting........and you bet I don't care about them.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't really care about your bad takes regarding the Bills. But this is genuinely awful. Maybe take a break from posting. If it was up to me, after this comment that break would be enforced.

...it is his masochistic tendencies norm Happy.....keep you blood pressure in check bro.....he ain't worth it.....

[K-9]

34 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Some people recoil at the notion that someone would challenge what they believe to be their unchallengeable positions on an issues. Instead of disagreeing with a point in a discussion it is easier to resort to smearing the individual. That's what happened with the Warrow exchanges and also in this case with K-9. K-9 can defend his positions well enough with anyone. He's not sensitive to his views being challenged or even criticized. He can capably mix it up with anyone. But this repeated descent into sidetracking a discussion by personal slings is the standard behavior of odious scoundrels 

 

Don’t make me stop this car! 

 

Seriously, I appreciate the sentiment, John.  But I need to worry about my own act being offensive as well at times. Besides, if it were someone I held in high esteem around here doing the smearing, I’d actually be concerned, But I’m not, really. Not when I consider the source(s). 

[K-9]

31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

  

Un-clutch your pearls or block me.........easy fix.

 

My bad takes on the Bills since this board began are few and far between, unfortunately.

 

Case in point..........the new thread about the 2016 draft...........I am pretty sure @eballand @K-9 were both pretty irked about my takes on Shaq and Ragnuts after that draft...........but that gets conveniently forgotten as they move on to their next outrage.     

 

Your bad takes...........well that's 7K and counting........and you bet I don't care about them.

 

 

Regarding Lawson, yeah, I defended the pick because getting him at 19 was good value. And the shoulder issue and subsequent time off was predictable and manageable, so I wasn’t concerned.

 

You can’t be more wrong about my take on Ragland who I always thought was a two down thumper at best who lacked the athleticism required. He’s been pretty much as expected. So you’re one for two in that regard. So, you’ve at least upped your average a tick. Congrats. 

 

The only person I see “outraged” around here is you as you seem unable to stomach the idea that anyone could possibly dare to disagree with your self ascribed genius. But yeah, you’ve got some laser sharp 20/20 hindsight for sure. Well done.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

It’s always the “positive” group that makes it personal first I’ve noticed. Go back and check in this thread and many others. 

 

Edit: I should say usually. Obviously there are exceptions but I’ve noticed a trend. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Chemical

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, eball said:

 

If McBeane's process results in sustained success you can bet the "they shouldn't have torn it down" crowd will be quick with the rationale that the Bills are only good because they "lucked out" with Allen.

 

I'm still wondering why Shady is on this team, given McD's obvious fear and loathing of star players.  Oh, that's right -- they "bought" his buy-in. 

 

I guess they bought Mitch Morse's, John Brown's, Cole Beasley's, and Frank Gore's buy-in also.  

 

 

1. If Allen pans out it won't be luck.   Luck was inheriting a team in a year when Mahomes and Watson were both available at their first pick.   McD punted on those guys.........which as @thebandit27 said could turn out to be the biggest draft blunder in team history.........but they also became the first regime to ever go all-in on a rookie QB in round 1.   If Allen pans out and McBeane end up in oblivion then at least they got a QB.

 

2. If the "McD's obvious fear and loathing of star players" is in reference to one of my takes that is certainly not what I have said.     I mean they were in on Antonio Brown......he's a star.   LeSean McCoy was not a prime age player when they inherited him and he was already double dipping on a contract.   His only leverage was to b*tch about McBeane and knowing that they paid him extra not to.

 

3. Obviously giving Mitch Morse the highest AAV contract for a center in NFL history and also paying those other guys more than anyone else was how they got them excited about the project.     I KNOW you think that they came here just because they liked what McBeane were selling but that really isn't how free agency works.    

17 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Regarding Lawson, yeah, I defended the pick because getting him at 19 was good value. And the shoulder issue and subsequent time off was predictable and manageable, so I wasn’t concerned.

 

 

 

You should take your own advice and not judge a draft until after 3 years rather than blame me for calling Shaq an "uninspired" pick at the time..........and then him being exactly that kinda' player.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Chemical said:

It’s always the “positive” group that makes it personal first I’ve noticed. Go back and check in this thread and many others. 

 

Edit: I should say usually. Obviously there are exceptions but I’ve noticed a trend. 

 

 

Oh it's ALWAYS.

 

Our apologists take skepticism of the team moves personally...........they can't help it because by nature they can't keep it in perspective.

 

On 6/20/2019 at 6:17 PM, GunnerBill said:

Doesn't mean I have to think it damaged the 2019 Bills or beyond. But it basically threw games in 2017 and 2018 and it was entirely predictable to anyone who watched, and I mean really watched, his college tape. 

 

 

 

You see NFL Network's Adam Rank's prediction that the Bills would start out 7-4 this year and lose 4 straight to fall out of the playoffs?

 

We were discussing scenario's that could cost McBeane their jobs earlier in this thread............you think that would put them in jeopardy of firing?

 

 

[K-9]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

You should take your own advice and not judge a draft until after 3 years rather than blame me for calling Shaq an "uninspired" pick at the time..........and then him being exactly that kinda' player.

I fully intend to as it's still the accepted rule. The only thing that's changed over the years are the economics that force more veterans out (as you've said), and the subsequent pressure to get younger, cheaper players in the lineup sooner. 

 

But that has nothing to do with a player's natural development arc. Some can handle playing earlier, others can't. And that will never change. 

 

As for Shaq Lawson, get over yourself. Getting him at 19 was good value. You disagreed. So the F what? Another chapter closed. Move on. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by K-9

[John from Riverside]

14 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

It was only one year....but a historic, league MVP year at the most important position in the game.  It's the offseason and not much going on and it's 4 AM and I am at work doing nothing....so I forgive me if I couldn't resist to troll a little here...

 

Come on.....in the history of the NFL, no one would ever trade a 23 year old league MVP at QB coming off a historic season, for any combo of players ever.  

 

I understand the circumstances of how the Mahomes trade went down....given that Buffalo was NOT taking a QB in the 2017 draft under any circumstances...then trading out was a fine thing to do.  The mistake wasn't with McDermott...and Beane wasn't around....the owners (pegulas) awkward hiring of coach, then having lame duck GM...then later hiring GM after draft...all but assured that there would be no QB taken.  McDermott simply wasn't in a position to make a well informed committment to ANY of them at the time of the 2017 draft.  

 

So again...GIVEN that the Bills were not in the QB market in 2017 due to circumstances created by the team owners...McD did VERY WELL.  But that's like saying the Edmonton Oilers did VERY WELL when they traded Wayne Gretzky.  You can't "win" that trade.  At best, you could say the Oilers didn't completely lose the trade...they did go on to win a cup in 1990 without Gretzky.....it's similar in this case.  Buffalo can not "win" the Mahomes trade...but it is entirely possible that they didn't lose it if Allen works out...the other bits...Tre White and Edmunds look good so far...but no executive ever, would trade Mahomes for Allen, Edmunds and White....you could even throw in the next 10 Bills round 1 picks with those guys and no one makes that trade.  It all hinges of course on Allen...if he becomes a top 10 NFL QB....along with the other guys in the trade...you will have done well and not lost the trade.  

And like clockwork. ............

[eball]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

2. If the "McD's obvious fear and loathing of star players" is in reference to one of my takes that is certainly not what I have said.     I mean they were in on Antonio Brown......he's a star.   LeSean McCoy was not a prime age player when they inherited him and he was already double dipping on a contract.   His only leverage was to b*tch about McBeane and knowing that they paid him extra not to.

 

 

Oh it’s absolutely what you said. I’m not surprised you are backtracking from that historically absurd take. 

[BADOLBILZ]

49 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Oh it’s absolutely what you said. I’m not surprised you are backtracking from that historically absurd take. 

 

 

Nah.........McD likes star players.........are you saying he didn't like Luke Kuechly?   He didn't like Kawann Short?  Thomas Davis?  

 

You really over-did the Boones Farm tonight eebs........what NFL coach "loathes" stars?   

 

What he didn't like was a bunch of prime aged young talent that was approaching free agency decisions when he was trying to buy time for his process...........he wasn't going to earn anyone's trust he was going to get it or tear it down........that(and the Mahomes trade) are the primary reasons why he's struggled while guys like McVay and Anthony Lynn have flourished.

 

LeSean McCoy was a RB entering his year 29 season when McDermott took over.........that's NOT prime aged for any position outside of QB..........but DEFINITELY not RB...........that's the precipice of the generally accepted drop-dead age for superstardom at the RB position(which is exactly what happened with his ypa dropping off an astonishing 1.5 yards from 2016-2017).    Star RB's historically turn to JAG's at 30 and McCoy has been well below league average ypa since he turned 29.

 

 

[Gugny]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Nah.........McD likes star players.........are you saying he didn't like Luke Kuechly?   He didn't like Kawann Short?  Thomas Davis?  

 

You really over-did the Boones Farm tonight eebs........what NFL coach "loathes" stars?   

 

What he didn't like was a bunch of prime aged young talent that was approaching free agency decisions when he was trying to buy time for his process...........he wasn't going to earn anyone's trust he was going to get it or tear it down........that(and the Mahomes trade) are the primary reasons why he's struggled while guys like McVay and Anthony Lynn have flourished.

 

LeSean McCoy was a RB entering his year 29 season when McDermott took over.........that's NOT prime aged for any position outside of QB..........but DEFINITELY not RB...........that's the precipice of the generally accepted drop-dead age for superstardom at the RB position(which is exactly what happened with his ypa dropping off an astonishing 1.5 yards from 2016-2017).    Star RB's historically turn to JAG's at 30 and McCoy has been well below league average ypa since he turned 29.

 

 

 

I'll agree with you with regard to McCoy.  Should have been traded long ago.  But how has Anthony Lynn flourished?

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

  

Un-clutch your pearls or block me.........easy fix.

 

My bad takes on the Bills since this board began are few and far between, unfortunately.

 

Case in point..........the new thread about the 2016 draft...........I am pretty sure @eballand @K-9 were both pretty irked about my takes on Shaq and Ragnuts after that draft...........but that gets conveniently forgotten as they move on to their next outrage.     

 

Your bad takes...........well that's 7K and counting........and you bet I don't care about them.

 

 

This is why you continually get "breaks" from posting forced on you......

 

You know.....you do have some great takes....even I think you have some really great ones.....but the way you talk down to people is just ***** irrating and wear on people

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

You see NFL Network's Adam Rank's prediction that the Bills would start out 7-4 this year and lose 4 straight to fall out of the playoffs?

 

We were discussing scenario's that could cost McBeane their jobs earlier in this thread............you think that would put them in jeopardy of firing?

 

 

 

They would have to lose t straight to be 7-9. That sort of 7-9 might, for sure. Especially if those games are collapses. If they lose 4 games by 3 points or fewer then probably not. But if from 7-4 they took 3 heavy beatings say then yes I could see them in trouble. An 8-8 (even from 7-4) I think they'd probably be okay. 

[eball]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Nah.........McD likes star players.........are you saying he didn't like Luke Kuechly?   He didn't like Kawann Short?  Thomas Davis?  

 

You really over-did the Boones Farm tonight eebs........what NFL coach "loathes" stars?   

 

What he didn't like was a bunch of prime aged young talent that was approaching free agency decisions when he was trying to buy time for his process...........he wasn't going to earn anyone's trust he was going to get it or tear it down........that(and the Mahomes trade) are the primary reasons why he's struggled while guys like McVay and Anthony Lynn have flourished.

 

LeSean McCoy was a RB entering his year 29 season when McDermott took over.........that's NOT prime aged for any position outside of QB..........but DEFINITELY not RB...........that's the precipice of the generally accepted drop-dead age for superstardom at the RB position(which is exactly what happened with his ypa dropping off an astonishing 1.5 yards from 2016-2017).    Star RB's historically turn to JAG's at 30 and McCoy has been well below league average ypa since he turned 29.

 

 

 

Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal.  "McD lacks confidence to deal with prime age stars"..."McD didn't think he could get buy-in from prima donnas"...all ridiculous takes espoused by you in this monstrosity of a thread -- while at the same time treating one of the most fair-minded and objective Bills beat reporters out there like dog crap.

 

You're exactly what you appear to be -- a loudmouth know-it-all who claims superiority on an internet message board and can't have reasonable discussions with anyone who doesn't bow to your "supreme" knowledge and insight.  Which is a joke.

 

I've got nothing against Anthony Lynn but the roster he inherited already had the likes of Rivers, Gordon, Allen, Gates, Henry, Inman, and Benjamin on offense and Bosa, Ingram, and Hayward on defense.  He should have flourished in a division with the crappy Raiders and sinking Broncos.  And we saw what happened last season in the biggest game yet -- Lynn had his lunch handed to him far worse than what Belichick has done to McD.

 

McD's Bills have "struggled" to a 15-17 record (that includes a playoff berth) because of the systematic decisions he and Beane made to rebuild the roster.  They had a plan, they stuck to it, and now is the time to prove it.  That's all any of us "apologists" have been saying while you and your ilk continue to live in the past.

[Captain Murica]

 

After listening to this episode of the Bills Beat. I’m thankful for the McBeane just hope winning follows with how they carry themselves. At least we don’t have a circus that we once did behind the scenes. 

 

I suggest if you have an hour to kill to give it a shot.

[K-9]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I'll agree with you with regard to McCoy.  Should have been traded long ago.  But how has Anthony Lynn flourished?

Not sure to what extent they’ve flourished, but to whatever extent that is, I’ll offer two reasons: superior talent at key positions and 

Philip Rivers. That and Lynn is a good offensive mind in his own right. Lynn inherited a fairly decent situation with the Chargers. Not great, but better than the mess (read QBless) situation McD walked into. 

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Not sure to what extent they’ve flourished, but to whatever extent that is, I’ll offer two reasons: superior talent at key positions and 

Philip Rivers. That and Lynn is a good offensive mind in his own right. Lynn inherited a fairly decent situation with the Chargers. Not great, but better than the mess (read QBless) situation McD walked into. 

 

As we have seen repeatedly, having the QB cures a lot of ills. I’m may not be the ONLY thing, but it sure is a BIG thing! Ask Pete Carroll. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

As we have seen repeatedly, having the QB cures a lot of ills. I’m may not be the ONLY thing, but it sure is a BIG thing! Ask Pete Carroll. 

Not the only thing, but the absolutely, MOST important thing. Let me put it this way:

 

Great QBs get you through times of poor supporting casts a helluva lot better than great supporting casts get you through times of poor QBs. 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They would have to lose t straight to be 7-9. That sort of 7-9 might, for sure. Especially if those games are collapses. If they lose 4 games by 3 points or fewer then probably not. But if from 7-4 they took 3 heavy beatings say then yes I could see them in trouble. An 8-8 (even from 7-4) I think they'd probably be okay. 

 

I think the inference was that the last game was meaningless so getting to 8 wins that way is no better than 7-9.

 

Kinda' like how losing that week 16 game OT game to Miami in 2016 to fall to 7-8 instead of 8-7 was effectively the end of the season.    Carpenter makes that easy game winning FG in OT and they likely finish 9-7 and *maybe* even reach the playoffs instead of Miami.  

 

 Either way the bad taste of games like the home loss to Pittsburgh no doubt had as much of an impact as the record in Rex firing.    I'm not sure that 8-8 versus 7-9 would make any difference if the lasting memories were collapses in a 4 game losing stretch.   That would discourage management and fans alike.

 

But I don't think it would get them fired..........but their seats would be very hot going into 2020..........it would certainly invoke the memories of other counterfeit Bills regimes that blew seasons with second half collapses(Jauron, Gailey, Rex) as well as reminding everyone of the 4-5 finish they posted in 2017 under McD.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I'll agree with you with regard to McCoy.  Should have been traded long ago.  But how has Anthony Lynn flourished?

 

 

21-11 record after taking over a team that was 9-23 the prior two seasons?   That franchise was in utter chaos, no homefield advantage and REAL losing culture(not just a culture of mediocrity like in Buffalo) that was as bad as it gets.

 

McD 15-17 after taking over a team that had been 15-17 under Rex.

 

Now granted..........two of Lynn's wins were embarrassing beat downs of McDermott's ill-prepared teams..........but increasing your franchise's win total by 12 games over your first two seasons as HC is absolutely flourishing.    

 

It's foolish to deny it.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, K-9 said:

Not sure to what extent they’ve flourished, but to whatever extent that is, I’ll offer two reasons: superior talent at key positions and 

Philip Rivers. That and Lynn is a good offensive mind in his own right. Lynn inherited a fairly decent situation with the Chargers. Not great, but better than the mess (read QBless) situation McD walked into. 

 

 

Said it before but I can't even imagine the excuses if a Bills coach had to deal with the adversity of the team moving to a city where nobody wanted them and playing without a homefield advantage for two seasons.    

 

Philip Rivers is a good QB but he had lead 4 and 5 win teams the previous two seasons prior to Lynn.........that organization was a mess.

 

Comes down to this.......switch kickers between the two teams and Lynn certainly has 2-3 more wins and two playoff berths and McDermott has 5-6 less wins.

 

And as for the QB situation McD inherited.........he LITERALLY inherited the chance to select Patrick Mahomes with his first round pick...........the most valued QB and football player in the NFL right now.  

 

I hope McD succeeds for our sake but let's not pretend that it has gone swimmingly to this point............opportunities have been missed............there has been a lot of suspect hirings and game day coaching etc..   Hopefully it's a learning curve for a guy who just wasn't as ready as guys like McVay or Lynn..........but the results so far aren't good.

Edited June 22, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Said it before but I can't even imagine the excuses if a Bills coach had to deal with the adversity of the team moving to a city where nobody wanted them and playing without a homefield advantage for two seasons.    

 

Philip Rivers is a good QB but he had lead 4 and 5 win teams the previous two seasons prior to Lynn.........that organization was a mess.

 

Comes down to this.......switch kickers between the two teams and Lynn certainly has 2-3 more wins and two playoff berths and McDermott has 5-6 less wins.

 

And as for the QB situation McD inherited.........he LITERALLY inherited the chance to select Patrick Mahomes with his first round pick...........the most valued QB and football player in the NFL right now.  

 

I hope McD succeeds for our sake but let's not pretend that it hasn't gone swimmingly to this point............opportunities have been missed............there has been a lot of suspect hirings and game day coaching etc..   Hopefully it's a learning curve for a guy who just wasn't as ready as guys like McVay or Lynn..........but the results so far aren't good.

Playoffs first year.  Amazing how that slips right by you every time.

[eball]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I think the inference was that the last game was meaningless so getting to 8 wins that way is no better than 7-9.

 

Kinda' like how losing that week 16 game OT game to Miami in 2016 to fall to 7-8 instead of 8-7 was effectively the end of the season.    Carpenter makes that easy game winning FG in OT and they likely finish 9-7 and *maybe* even reach the playoffs instead of Miami.  

 

 Either way the bad taste of games like the home loss to Pittsburgh no doubt had as much of an impact as the record in Rex firing.    I'm not sure that 8-8 versus 7-9 would make any difference if the lasting memories were collapses in a 4 game losing stretch.   That would discourage management and fans alike.

 

But I don't think it would get them fired..........but their seats would be very hot going into 2020..........it would certainly invoke the memories of other counterfeit Bills regimes that blew seasons with second half collapses(Jauron, Gailey, Rex) as well as reminding everyone of the 4-5 finish they posted in 2017 under McD.

 

Do you mean the 4-2 finish that got them in the playoffs, when everyone wrote them off after the three losses to NJ, NO, and SD?  Put that together with the 4-3 finish last year and McD's Bills teams are actually doing pretty well in the 2nd half of the season!  I'm sure that's what you meant.

[mannc]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Not sure to what extent they’ve flourished, but to whatever extent that is, I’ll offer two reasons: superior talent at key positions and 

Philip Rivers. That and Lynn is a good offensive mind in his own right. Lynn inherited a fairly decent situation with the Chargers. Not great, but better than the mess (read QBless) situation McD walked into. 

So the guy who took over a team that had just gone 9-23 and was going to be playing its home games in a high school soccer stadium inherited a better situation than the guy who took over essentially a .500 team over the same period (absent the tank job in the EJ Manuel v. Jets game).  Gotcha....The excuses never end 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

21-11 record after taking over a team that was 9-23 the prior two seasons?   That franchise was in utter chaos, no homefield advantage and REAL losing culture(not just a culture of mediocrity like in Buffalo) that was as bad as it gets.

 

McD 15-17 after taking over a team that had been 15-17 under Rex.

 

Now granted..........two of Lynn's wins were embarrassing beat downs of McDermott's ill-prepared teams..........but increasing your franchise's win total by 12 games over your first two seasons as HC is absolutely flourishing.    

 

It's foolish to deny it.

 

It's also foolish to trivialize the fact that Lynn inherited a team with a walk-in Hall of Fame QB with gas in the tank and McDermott inherited Tyrod ***** Taylor.

 

It's actually silly to compare them.  But if you want to do that, in two seasons, each has gone to the playoffs once.  The Bills, led by Tyrod ***** Taylor, lost to the Jags, who had the best defense in the AFC.  The Chargers, led by HOF QB Rivers, won a close game against arguably the worst performing QB in playoff history - then proceeded to get trounced by New England.

 

Lynn has done well in La La Land, but I think, "flourished," is a tad generous.  In 2017, he had the #2 defense in the AFC and the #1 passing offense in the AFC ... and went 9-7, missing the playoffs.  A much better year last year, for sure.  But that's one successful season out of two; same as McDermott, who had far less talent to work with.

 

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, mannc said:

So the guy who took over a team that had just gone 9-23 and was going to be playing its home games in a high school soccer stadium inherited a better situation than the guy who took over essentially a .500 team over the same period (absent the tank job in the EJ Manuel v. Jets game).  Gotcha....The excuses never end 

Who am I making an excuse for? Certainly not McD. My post focused SOLELY on the situation that Lynn went to in SD/LA. McD has nothing to do with that and I’m not interested in any pissing contest others are engaged in around here. 

 

From a talent standpoint, the Chargers were superior at key positions, especially QB (Rivers will be a first ballot HOF inductee). Regardless of records, I think San Diego was a better team than the Bills simply because of Rivers. 

 

Teams lose for lots of reasons, one of them being coaching. And Lynn is a damned good coach with sharp offensive instincts. He might be the biggest reason for their turnaround given the immediate synergy he established with Rivers. He’s got them turned around and on the right track. But I’m not convinced he has that same success in Buffalo without Rivers and the Chargers’ other key superior players. 

 

Lastly, their stadium situation is overblown. Challenging situations often have a way of galvanizing a team and I think the Chargers have used that to their advantage. Others have made a much bigger deal out of it than the Chargers. 

 

But again, none of that has anything to do with McD. 

[eball]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Who am I making an excuse for? Certainly not McD. My post focused SOLELY on the situation that Lynn went to in SD/LA. McD has nothing to do with that and I’m not interested in any pissing contest others are engaged in around here. 

 

From a talent standpoint, the Chargers were superior at key positions, especially QB (Rivers will be a first ballot HOF inductee). Regardless of records, I think San Diego was a better team than the Bills simply because of Rivers. 

 

Teams lose for lots of reasons, one of them being coaching. And Lynn is a damned good coach with sharp offensive instincts. He might be the biggest reason for their turnaround given the immediate synergy he established with Rivers. He’s got them turned around and on the right track. But I’m not convinced he has that same success in Buffalo without Rivers and the Chargers’ other key superior players. 

 

Lastly, their stadium situation is overblown. Challenging situations often have a way of galvanizing a team and I think the Chargers have used that to their advantage. Others have made a much bigger deal out of it than the Chargers. 

 

But again, none of that has anything to do with McD. 

 

All of this may be true, but it's hard to look worse than the Chargers did against the Pats*** in January.  They were woefully unprepared.  In the one shot McD has had at the playoffs his team held a superior opponent (one that should have reached the Super Bowl) to 10 pts at home.

[mannc]

Just now, eball said:

 

All of this may be true, but it's hard to look worse than the Chargers did against the Pats*** in January.  They were woefully unprepared.  In the one shot McD has had at the playoffs his team held a superior opponent (one that should have reached the Super Bowl) to 10 pts at home.

How do you think McD would have fared in Foxborough against Belichick as opposed to in J-ville against Marrone?

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

All of this may be true, but it's hard to look worse than the Chargers did against the Pats*** in January.  They were woefully unprepared.  In the one shot McD has had at the playoffs his team held a superior opponent (one that should have reached the Super Bowl) to 10 pts at home.

I hear that, but Belichick and Co. do that a lot. Plus, he’s intimately familiar with Lynn’s schemes so I can’t fault them for getting blown out like they did. 

 

And I agree that McD has nothing to apologize for in losing to the Jags on the road in the WC game. Nothing at all. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Said it before but I can't even imagine the excuses if a Bills coach had to deal with the adversity of the team moving to a city where nobody wanted them and playing without a homefield advantage for two seasons.    

 

Philip Rivers is a good QB but he had lead 4 and 5 win teams the previous two seasons prior to Lynn.........that organization was a mess.

 

Comes down to this.......switch kickers between the two teams and Lynn certainly has 2-3 more wins and two playoff berths and McDermott has 5-6 less wins.

 

And as for the QB situation McD inherited.........he LITERALLY inherited the chance to select Patrick Mahomes with his first round pick...........the most valued QB and football player in the NFL right now.  

 

I hope McD succeeds for our sake but let's not pretend that it hasn't gone swimmingly to this point............opportunities have been missed............there has been a lot of suspect hirings and game day coaching etc..   Hopefully it's a learning curve for a guy who just wasn't as ready as guys like McVay or Lynn..........but the results so far aren't good.

 

While I agree Lynn has had an instant impact on results - Mike McCoy was costing them minimum 2 wins per season by being absolutely freaking useless. Worryingly he was McDermott's first choice as OC. He is a dreadful, dreadful, dreadful coach. 

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

While I agree Lynn has had an instant impact on results - Mike McCoy was costing them minimum 2 wins per season by being absolutely freaking useless. Worryingly he was McDermott's first choice as OC. He is a dreadful, dreadful, dreadful coach. 

McCoy got good play out of Rivers, especially his first couple years, but he lost that team during his final two years. Still, Rivers was pretty consistent, which he would have been regardless of who his HC is. But I agree, McCoy just isn’t a very good coach, imo. 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Said it before but I can't even imagine the excuses if a Bills coach had to deal with the adversity of the team moving to a city where nobody wanted them and playing without a homefield advantage for two seasons.    

 

Philip Rivers is a good QB but he had lead 4 and 5 win teams the previous two seasons prior to Lynn.........that organization was a mess.

 

Comes down to this.......switch kickers between the two teams and Lynn certainly has 2-3 more wins and two playoff berths and McDermott has 5-6 less wins.

 

And as for the QB situation McD inherited.........he LITERALLY inherited the chance to select Patrick Mahomes with his first round pick...........the most valued QB and football player in the NFL right now.  

 

I hope McD succeeds for our sake but let's not pretend that it hasn't gone swimmingly to this point............opportunities have been missed............there has been a lot of suspect hirings and game day coaching etc..   Hopefully it's a learning curve for a guy who just wasn't as ready as guys like McVay or Lynn..........but the results so far aren't good.

Why is it you think that those of us who don’t complain as much as you do think everything has gone “swimmingly” for McD? I don’t know a single one of his fans that think he hasn’t made mistakes or that opportunities weren’t  missed. 

 

As for the rest of your post, no comment. I’ve grown to expect your myopic views on some things and they are better left alone as there is no debate value to be gained.

Edited June 22, 2019 by K-9

[Happy]

@BADOLBILZ

"And as for the QB situation McD inherited.........he LITERALLY inherited the chance to select Patrick Mahomes with his first round pick...........the most valued QB and football player in the NFL right now."

 

 

Mahomes landed in a much better situation in KC than he would have in Buffalo.  I doubt he would be the same player had he been in Buffalo than in KC.  That said, I'm excited about Josh Allen and think his ceiling is high; it might take another year or two to completely develop his potential.  Not sweating passing on Mahomes.

 

As far as McD is concerned, I'm on the fence and giving him this year before I start thinking about any conclusions on him as a coach.  Personally, I think McD came in a little cocky and wanting full control without a track record to warrant such power.  But the Pegulas gave him that.  As stated by others, McD made some big mistakes in both player and coach selection.  The player mistakes have already been discussed, so nothing to add to that.  Coaching wise, the turnover in staff is telling.  Very few remain from the start of his tenure in 2017.  Could this mean that McD realized his mistakes and is not afraid to make necessary changes?  Maybe...at least I hope this is the case.  IMO, Leslie Frazier is the guy who probably needs a fire lit under him.  We'll see if he is more aggressive in his defensive approach this coming season, especially since McD mentioning that he likes to see QB pressure; which is something that was missing last year.

 

Bottom line, McD needs to be better than .500 this year.  There is no reason why the Bills can't be 9-7 or 10-6 and playing meaningful games in December.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Happy Gilmore