K-9 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...and it's hard to tell exactly what his role is today....wonder if this is still accurate..... Bills promote Overdorf to senior VP in minor restructuring Associated Press Published: Jan. 31, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. Updated: July 26, 2012 at 08:17 p.m. ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Jim Overdorf was promoted to Buffalo Bills senior vice president of football administration, giving him control over contract negotiations and salary cap decisions. The move announced Thursday was part of a minor front office restructuring that follows Russ Brandon's promotion to chief operating officer. Brandon's promotion came after the Bills elected not to fill the general manager's role after Marv Levy stepped down at the end of the season. For Overdorf, the promotion means he formally becomes the team's top executive in day-to-day football matters, answering to Brandon and Bills owner Ralph Wilson. Overdorf is entering his 23rd season with the team and has handled contract talks for most of this decade. He is their cap guru and chief contract negotiator. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Not really. He used examples against the context of what I said. Historically if you are mediocre to below average for 3 straight years as a new regime chances are you aren't going to suddenly emerge in your 4th or anywhere else. That wasn't the case with Carroll or Vermeil. But, they were (fired previously). I’m not a mind reader, but I assume that the guy who submitted their names might have been doing so to say that it’s possible they may have been fired before they had a chance to find success with that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 minute ago, K-9 said: He is their cap guru and chief contract negotiator. ...thanks....so his duties remain principally the same..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Thats great work putting up stuff from 2000 that has nothing to do with this current team. But we say this with EVERY regime. That was the point. I'll reserve ultimate judgement until I see the product they put on the field in this, a PIVOTAL season, whether some want to admit it or not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: But we say this with EVERY regime. That was the point. I'll reserve ultimate judgement until I see the product they put on the field in this, a PIVOTAL season, whether some want to admit it or not. ...hard to quantify "pivotal" with all of the newness from personnel to coaching moves....is the MINIMAL achievement 10-6 with a WC spot or does the "TBD Fire Everyone Gang" blossom?.....what if 9-7 with a near miss on the WC spot, Josh is in the top ten for QB's, as are the offense and defense, but we missed (barely)?....woeful failure?...blew "THE PIVOTAL definition"?......you're an astute football guy.....what are your assessments as far as 2019 outcomes and grades for various realistic scenarios?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...hard to quantify "pivotal" with all of the newness from personnel to coaching moves....is the MINIMAL achievement 10-6 with a WC spot or does the "TBD Fire Everyone Gang" blossom?.....what if 9-7 with a near miss on the WC spot, Josh is in the top ten for QB's, as are the offense and defense, but we missed (barely)?....woeful failure?...blew "THE PIVOTAL definition"?......you're an astute football guy.....what are your assessments as far as 2019 outcomes and grades for various realistic scenarios?.... That's the second time you've referred to me as "astute." Questionable judgement. I would say .500 should be the benchmark. I understand there have been a ton of changes, but that's not a new phenomenon in the NFL. They've turned this roster over quite dramatically(by choice). I'll grant you that. That's why I'd be "OK" with a .500 season. I think it's kind of ridiculous to give them a complete pass simply because of that turnover. They were 6-10 last season and had a chance to use a great deal of the much ballyhooed draft capital to bring in process guys. A 2 game improvement is a reasonable expectation. I hear a lot of talk about bounces of the ball potentially leading to a 5-11ish record, but the overwhelming majority of games are not determined by a bounce of a ball, a poorly timed penalty, etc. The majority of games are won by the more prepared/talented team. I think objective folks will know TRUE progress when they see it, and progress can be measured to a great extent by wins and losses. I'd personally feel satisfied with the direction of the team if they can at least win 8. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: That's the second time you've referred to me as "astute." Questionable judgement. I would say .500 should be the benchmark. I understand there have been a ton of changes, but that's not a new phenomenon in the NFL. They've turned this roster over quite dramatically(by choice). I'll grant you that. That's why I'd be "OK" with a .500 season. I think it's kind of ridiculous to give them a complete pass simply because of that turnover. They were 6-10 last season and had a chance to use a great deal of the much ballyhooed draft capital to bring in process guys. A 2 game improvement is a reasonable expectation. I hear a lot of talk about bounces of the ball potentially leading to a 5-11ish record, but the overwhelming majority of games are not determined by a bounce of a ball, a poorly timed penalty, etc. The majority of games are won by the more prepared/talented team. I think objective folks will know TRUE progress when they see it, and progress can be measured to a great extent by wins and losses. I'd personally feel satisfied with the direction of the team if they can at least win 8. Good stuff. I think .500 as the bench mark, together noticeable sustainable improvement in week areas, particularly Oline and QB. .500 is good enough if there appears to be real progress on the field. 9-7 or better is real progress, almost regardless of whether we think there's been good progress in this area or that. If they can win 9, that's a successful season. And I said a few months ago, and I still believe it's true, that the Bills have a better chance to exceed expectations and get to 10-6 or better, than they are likely to go 6- 10 or worse. I expect several more solid performers, the Milano-types, to emerge this season, enough of them together with Allen that simply won't allow the team to lose a lot. I think those unheralded people will emerge because of their commitment to hard work and the leadership they're going to see from some combination of McCoy, Gore, Beasley, Alexander, Hughes, Star. I think that mix of leadership and eager young talent will be unwilling to settle for losses. Edited June 9, 2019 by Shaw66 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Not really. He used examples against the context of what I said. Historically if you are mediocre to below average for 3 straight years as a new regime chances are you aren't going to suddenly emerge in your 4th or anywhere else. That wasn't the case with Carroll or Vermeil. Did you start your count when in his first year McDermott took a stripped down team into the playoffs for the first time in a generation? If that first year wasn't considered successful then I don't know why the players in the locker room were doing a jig when they qualified. Edited June 9, 2019 by JohnC punctuation 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: That's the second time you've referred to me as "astute." Questionable judgement. I would say .500 should be the benchmark. I understand there have been a ton of changes, but that's not a new phenomenon in the NFL. They've turned this roster over quite dramatically(by choice). I'll grant you that. That's why I'd be "OK" with a .500 season. I think it's kind of ridiculous to give them a complete pass simply because of that turnover. They were 6-10 last season and had a chance to use a great deal of the much ballyhooed draft capital to bring in process guys. A 2 game improvement is a reasonable expectation. I hear a lot of talk about bounces of the ball potentially leading to a 5-11ish record, but the overwhelming majority of games are not determined by a bounce of a ball, a poorly timed penalty, etc. The majority of games are won by the more prepared/talented team. I think objective folks will know TRUE progress when they see it, and progress can be measured to a great extent by wins and losses. I'd personally feel satisfied with the direction of the team if they can at least win 8. see , he is correct. You are astute ! While i expect Bills will get into wildcard at least, and do no consider it a fireable Offense if they miss. I am not sure what could happen that is so dramatic they could come in under .500. Based on current trends : ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said: see , he is correct. You are astute ! While i expect Bills will get into wildcard at least, and do no consider it a fireable Offense if they miss. I am not sure what could happen that is so dramatic they could come in under .500. Based on current trends : ) I’m glad he’s a stute. We need more stutes in this world. I feel the same way about lerts, too. It’s good to be a lert. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Thats great work putting up stuff from 2000 that has nothing to do with this current team. That's my "big picture", dude. 2000 was the last year of the remains of the Glory Years as John Butler, AJ Smith, etc left the Bills for San Diego, and Wade Phillips was sent packing. 2000 was the first year of the Drought. 2000 was the year Bill Belichick became the Patriots HC and drafted Tom Brady in the 6th round of the 2000 draft, a dramatic changing of the guard in the AFCE and NFL from the Bills dominating the AFCE and AFC for most of the decade to the Patriots dominating the AFCE, the AFC, and the NFL for two decades. You cannot claim that the current regime is somehow "different from" previous regimes unless you actually know what those previous regimes did. I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that the record of the current regime hasn't been significantly better than previous ones but facts are pesky things when they contradict the favored story line. 11 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Anything to be negative. No, I answered a poster claiming I didn't "see the big picture". I could say I'm sorry that you don't like that but I'd be lying. I don't care if you like it or not. The Bills history over the last twenty years is NOT POSITIVE in any way, shape or form. Unless or until McDermott proves he's not another poor/mediocre HC, he's no better than his predecessors. I'm not proud. I'll gladly admit that McDermott is a good HC when he proves he's better than his predecessors but I'm not giving him kudos for being no better than Ryan, Marrone or Gailey. It's time for McDermott to prove it. 11 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Just curious. Since last year screamed failure to you what did the prior season w Tyrod Taylor as the starting QB scream to you? Even a blind squirrel gets lucky and finds a nut occasionally. Andy Dalton threw a 49 yard TD pass to Tyler Boyd on 4th and 12 with 44 seconds left in the game, knocking the Ravens out of the playoffs and putting the Bills in ... on tie breakers. 10 hours ago, HappyDays said: Are you aware that every member of the Bills organization from just 5 years ago has been replaced? Literally to a man it is an entirely different organization. The only commonality is the name of the team. This is just lazy analysis. Next time throw in a reference to Russ Brandon for the cherry on top. Ummm... not true. John Overdorf continues to manage the Bills contracts and cap situation so that the Bills continue to be unable to "afford" to re-sign most of the top young veterans they develop. If Josh Allen actually develops into a top NFL QB, Bills fans had best hope that the Bills resident "cap genius" retires before that happens because if the Bills couldn't afford to keep their best young vets when they didn't have a franchise QB, they'll either let Allen walk away or strip the team of talent first. 10 hours ago, oldmanfan said: He doesn't care. Go look back at some posts from him. He thinks Pegula doesn't care about winning and only cares about $$, thinks he's the same as Ralph. Granted we all have have different opinions but opinions should be based in some modicum of fact and logic. He has neither. Russ Brandon was in charge of the team from 2006 through 2017. In those twelve seasons, the team went 75-117 (.392), had 2 winning seasons, and a single one and done playoff "run". Prior to Pegula's buying the team, Brandon's team won only 43 of its 117 games (.368) , had 1 winning season, and no playoff appearances at all. Why did Pegula keep Brandon when he sent almost all of the rest of Wilson's FO hangers-on packing? Why did he promote Brandon to a position in which he ran both the Bills and the Sabres, Pegula's other hapless, non-winning team? Except for Brandon making moves on the wrong female staff member, he'd STILL be in charge of both teams. Maybe that screams Pegula cares about winning to you, but it sure as hell doesn't to me, but I'm sure you'll find some "logical" reason for keeping and promoting Brandon other than his infamous ability to put butts in the seats. 9 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...hard to quantify "pivotal" with all of the newness from personnel to coaching moves....is the MINIMAL achievement 10-6 with a WC spot or does the "TBD Fire Everyone Gang" blossom?.....what if 9-7 with a near miss on the WC spot, Josh is in the top ten for QB's, as are the offense and defense, but we missed (barely)?....woeful failure?...blew "THE PIVOTAL definition"?......you're an astute football guy.....what are your assessments as far as 2019 outcomes and grades for various realistic scenarios?.... Nobody who's been critical of the McDermott/Beane regime has been demanding 10 wins, and most aren't even demanding 9 wins. I certainly haven't. Why is it NOT realistic to expect that with much better talent and a more experienced young QB, a competently coached team can win 2 more games than the previous 6 win season if there are no catastrophic injuries that derail the team? 5 hours ago, JohnC said: Did you start your count when in his first year McDermott took a stripped down team into the playoffs for the first time in a generation? If that first year wasn't considered successful then I don't know why the players in the locker room were doing a jig when they qualified. McDermott was responsible for that "stripped down team" because he wanted to replace players he didn't like with "his guys" ... and yeah, I included 2017. Why not? It's not like a 9-7 season and making a wild card slot on a tie-breaker over another 9-7 team is such a monumental accomplishment that it was all that special -- except to desperate Bills fans. Since the Bills reverted to form, record wise, in 2018, it's on McDermott to prove that 2018 was the exception and 2017 was the norm. Edited June 10, 2019 by SoTier 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, SoTier said: That's my "big picture", dude. 2000 was the last year of the remains of the Glory Years as John Butler, AJ Smith, etc left the Bills for San Diego, and Wade Phillips was sent packing. 2000 was the first year of the Drought. 2000 was the year Bill Belichick became the Patriots HC and drafted Tom Brady in the 6th round of the 2000 draft, a dramatic changing of the guard.... LOL....we are talking about the big picture moves that Beane made and somehow your relating this to what happened 20 years ago??? WTF. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 The logical reason Brandon was put in charge of PSE was because of his ability to put butts in the seats. You answered your own question. Then you belittle making the playoffs and turn that into a negative. Your hatred for the Bills clouds your ability to see anything clearly. And yes I know you don't care what I or others think. Which begs the question: why participate in a board designed for discussion and debate if you wish to do neither? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: LOL....we are talking about the big picture moves that Beane made and somehow your relating this to what happened 20 years ago??? WTF. So, your "big picture" is only 2017 and the first round of the 2018 draft??? FTR, I was specifically addressing the job that McDermott's done/doing as HC, not Beane, who's future as GM will likely be determined by how Allen turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, SoTier said: So, your "big picture" is only 2017 and the first round of the 2018 draft??? FTR, I was specifically addressing the job that McDermott's done/doing as HC, not Beane, who's future as GM will likely be determined by how Allen turns out. I cant believe this has to be explained to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 30 minutes ago, SoTier said: Even a blind squirrel gets lucky and finds a nut occasionally. Andy Dalton threw a 49 yard TD pass to Tyler Boyd on 4th and 12 with 44 seconds left in the game, knocking the Ravens out of the playoffs and putting the Bills in ... on tie breakers. That's all anyone needs to know about you in a nutshell. I'm so sorry for your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: That's all anyone needs to know about you in a nutshell. I'm so sorry for your loss. Any excuse to be negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, SoTier said: So, your "big picture" is only 2017 and the first round of the 2018 draft??? FTR, I was specifically addressing the job that McDermott's done/doing as HC, not Beane, who's future as GM will likely be determined by how Allen turns out. The “big picture” cannot start before the new owners installed the new FO. If Jack Kemp kept running backwards and took a 30 yard sack, that is just as relevant as why the Braves left. It’s Buffalo sports history, but that’s about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, SoTier said: John Overdorf continues to manage the Bills contracts and cap situation so that the Bills continue to be unable to "afford" to re-sign most of the top young veterans they develop. If Josh Allen actually develops into a top NFL QB, Bills fans had best hope that the Bills resident "cap genius" retires before that happens because if the Bills couldn't afford to keep their best young vets when they didn't have a franchise QB, they'll either let Allen walk away or strip the team of talent first Oh please. You're living in 2009. Pay attention to what has happened since the Pegulas took over. The Bills aren't pinching pennies anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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