New England o-line drafting

[maryland-bills-fan]

The Patriots have done well the last decade or so.   I was wondering how the used the draft to get offensive linemen.  First 5 rounds only..

Data from https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

 

year......round-overall pick......position

2018   1-23                OT

 

2017   3-85               OT

            6-211            OT

 

2016   3-78              G

 

2015   4-111            G

            4-131            C

 

2014   4-105          G

              4-140         OT

 

2013       none

 

2012      none

 

2011      1-17      OT

 

2010       4-141     G

 

2008         none

 

2007       5-171      OT

 

Top half of the first round or low 4th round seems to cover it.

 

 

[Bangarang]

Thanks?

[MakeBuffaloGreatAgain]

I always laugh when a Patriot O Lineman goes somewhere else and sucks for some reason... it’s a little different than having to pass block for less than a second and being allowed to hold if you get beat. 

[dubs]

4 minutes ago, MakeBuffaloGreatAgain said:

I always laugh when a Patriot O Lineman goes somewhere else and sucks for some reason... it’s a little different than having to pass block for less than a second and being allowed to hold if you get beat. 

 

And lining up four yards off the LOS

Edited April 7, 2019 by dubs

[TPS]

Interesting little take on their change in focus regarding the need to pressure Brady up the middle.

https://www.patspulpit.com/2017/5/15/15640270/patriots-have-made-a-major-shift-in-offensive-line-draft-strategy

 

[Doc]

Scarnecchia is a wizard.  I can't wait for him to retire, for good.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

Scarnecchia is a wizard.  I can't wait for him to retire, for good.

I see that being a bigger deal than brady retiring.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I see that being a bigger deal than brady retiring.

 

Yup.  The OL is what allows him to do what he does.  And allows them to go cheap on OL players. 

[MJS]

Brady gets rid of the ball so fast. I think their oline matters less than most team's. And if defenders get close to him he just throws the ball at the feet of one of his players and lives to see another down. New England has to be one of the easiest places in the league to play oline because of Brady.

[Victory Formation]

2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Thanks?

Way to kill an interesting thread. Wow, bro. You are so cool. Must be amazing. 

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

Brady gets rid of the ball so fast. I think their oline matters less than most team's. And if defenders get close to him he just throws the ball at the feet of one of his players and lives to see another down. New England has to be one of the easiest places in the league to play oline because of Brady.

There was a reason they begged him to come out of retirement.  He somehow gets the most out of any player he's given to work with and that's a key for that offense and even Brady.

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, Doc said:

Scarnecchia is a wizard.  I can't wait for him to retire, for good.

I know nothing about this guy, but I saw something about him a couple weeks ago, and everyone DOES think he's a wizard.  

 

I keep saying the same things over and over.   I think McD is a closet Belichick disciple.  I think that's one reason he wanted Daboll. 

 

Belichick has a pretty simple formula.  100% commitment to doing your job, learning and getting better.  Continuity.  Be physical.  All in, all the time.  A lot of what McDermott preaches.  

 

And this is why I think a trade out of 9 is likely.  Success in the Belichick system, and I think McBeane believe that success in their system, has to do with brains, commitment and hard work.   Once you get past QB, the notion that a player is a "game changer" really doesn't fly in their system.  They want good athletes with the right attitude.  If a guy is a great athlete, that's nice, but it isn't critical.  

 

Belichick wins by having built a sustainable system and by being good at finding good, hard-hitting athletes who will work for him in the system.  That's exactly what McBeane say about what they're doing, and it's why they keep saying they want to build "the right way."   What they mean by that is that a team built with the right work ethic and solid offensive and defensive systems can win football games year after year by plugging in the right kind of guys.   It's not a star system.  Except at quarterback, and McBeane think they have their QB.   They just have to nurture him like BElichick nurtured Brady, and not let a McCarthy-Rodgers problem develop.  

[Augie]

So.......nobody at #9, that solves that!    ?

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

There was a reason they begged him to come out of retirement.  He somehow gets the most out of any player he's given to work with and that's a key for that offense and even Brady.

 

And forgot to mention that he allows them to go cheap at OL.  But when he's gone, they'll have to spend big bucks like everyone else.

[Bangarang]

22 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Way to kill an interesting thread. Wow, bro. You are so cool. Must be amazing. 

 

Maybe this isn’t as interesting as you think it is? 

 

What conclusion can we draw from the OP’s post? The Patriots are not great at drafting. They don’t have some magic formula that shows which rounds are the best for drafting OL. They simply have the greatest HC and QB.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Bangarang

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, MJS said:

Brady gets rid of the ball so fast. I think their oline matters less than most team's. And if defenders get close to him he just throws the ball at the feet of one of his players and lives to see another down. New England has to be one of the easiest places in the league to play oline because of Brady.

This is true, but it's not about Brady as much as it's about Belichick.   

 

Brady gets rid of the ball fast because Belichick understood faster than everyone else that there simply isn't any way to protect the QB consistently the way teams could do it 20 years ago.   Pass rushers are too good, and schemes are too complicated, to expect your blockers to build a nice, safe pocket, play after play.  Belichick accepted that reality and asked himself how to deal with it.  The way to deal with it is to have an offense where you virtually always can get a receiver open quickly, regardless of what defense you're looking at, and have a QB and receivers who can recognize the situation and react to it.  

 

Brady is about as good at it as you can imagine.  He's smart, quick and accurate.  But it works because Belichick's schemes always have someone open quickly; Brady is just the guy who takes advantage of it.  

 

I think that's one of the reasons we heard McBeane say after last season ended that they have to get Allen to take the easy short throw.   They've learned from Belichick and Brady that you can have something like a 90% completion percentage on those throws - they're short, the receiver typically is wide open, and the pass rush doesn't have time to bother you.  It is, in fact, the modern substitute for the effective running games 60 years ago.  You can complete those passes all day long - that's why you see QBs completing 15 passes in a row sometimes.   And it's particularly effective because once defenses react to try to stop that maddening short stuff, by dropping linebackers wider and shallower, you start finding receivers 15 yards down field over the middle with no defender within five yards, so you throw it to him.  

 

McBeane want to make Allen Brady-effective.   He's smart, he's committed, and seems like he's the kind of guy who work in a system like that.   If he can, the Bills could have the GOAT, because if he can play in his head like Brady, he's bigger, stronger, faster and has a better arm than Brady.  

[mikemac2001]

31 minutes ago, MJS said:

Brady gets rid of the ball so fast. I think their oline matters less than most team's. And if defenders get close to him he just throws the ball at the feet of one of his players or no one and gets away with it 

Fixed it 

[aristocrat]

Keep your qb upright and the run game strong and lookout success. 

[87168]

6 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Maybe this isn’t as interesting as you think it is? 

 

What conclusion can we draw from the OP’s post? The Patriots are not great at drafting. They don’t have some magic formula that shows which rounds are the best for drafting OL. They simply have the greatest HC and QB.

I think their point is, if you found this tread so uninteresting, then fine.. but instead you chose to leave some snide, reductive comment. what warrants the negativity?

[Bangarang]

Just now, 87168 said:

I think their point is, if you found this tread so uninteresting, then fine.. but instead you chose to leave some snide, reductive comment. what warrants the negativity?

 

There was literally no context or discussion provided by the OP. He simply made a thread to tell us which rounds the Pats have drafted OL in. Are we supposed to fill in the blanks here and provide the talking points? 

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Maybe this isn’t as interesting as you think it is? 

 

What conclusion can we draw from the OP’s post? The Patriots are not great at drafting. They don’t have some magic formula that shows which rounds are the best for drafting OL. They simply have the greatest HC and QB.

I think it's interesting, but your conclusion is correct.  They have the greatest HC and the perfect QB for the head coach.  I think it's interesting because I think that McBeane think that they are heading in that direction.  And I think it's actually possible they are.   

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Are we supposed to fill in the blanks here and provide the talking points? 

You know me.  I do that all the time. 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

There was literally no context or discussion provided by the OP. He simply made a thread to tell us which rounds the Pats have drafted OL in. Are we supposed to fill in the blanks here and provide the talking points? 

Well, umm, yeah.  To me it shows the importance of continuity for their organization.  They know exactly how they want to play and thus know exactly the kinds of players they need.

Edited April 7, 2019 by oldmanfan

[Boca BIlls]

44 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Way to kill an interesting thread. Wow, bro. You are so cool. Must be amazing. 

I came in and thankfully I saw the second post... it really isnt interesting. Patriots O-Line has not been good in a while.

[maryland-bills-fan]

16 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Maybe this isn’t as interesting as you think it is? 

 

What conclusion can we draw from the OP’s post? The Patriots are not great at drafting. They don’t have some magic formula that shows which rounds are the best for drafting OL. They simply have the greatest HC and QB.

 

Well, I think  that it is a good idea to model your practices on teams that have been very successful and a first step is to see what they do and how it is different from what others and you do.  The Pats have been to a lot more playoffs and SB's than the Bills, especially lately.

 

What is obvious from the OP is that the Pats, to a large extent,  draft very few OL in the first two rounds (two players in the last 11 years).  An idea, that we all have seen teams and pundits express is that you can get good OL in the 2nd and 3rd round-  the Pats seem to skip that and go fishing in the 4th to 6th rounds- and also draft relatively few o-linemen.  I think that there is food for thought there.

 

What I wanted to see is where people would go with the OP list.  What I see is that the Pat's rely on identifying other teams good, experienced but not overly priced FA players and  built their 0-line with them. NOT with the conventional wisdom of drafting 2nd, 3rd rounders and coaching them up. There have been some articles suggesting that college o-line players are coached to a different, spread-offense,  not-hand-in-the-dirt method and come unprepared for the pro game.  Also, because of the limited hitting with pads practices allowed by the union- it is harder to coach them up.  Hence, veterans with a few years of okay performance are better to get than 2nd 3d rounders.  That is what I see the Bills doing.

 

Soooooo, I see the Bills draft strategy/o-line build as follows:  #1  get a bunch of young, relatively inexpensive veterans and sort out the better ones.  #2 Maybe draft a super o-lineman in the top half of the 1st round if the guy is very very high ceiling and floor- but only if the guy is going to be a great starter for 5+ years,  and #3  try a few very high ceiling/low floor crapshoot guys in the later rounds.

5 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

I came in and thankfully I saw the second post... it really isnt interesting. Patriots O-Line has not been good in a while.

Gee, have you looked at the final division standings for the last 10 years?

 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Yup.  The OL is what allows him to do what he does.  And allows them to go cheap on OL players. 

 

Yea... he’s more important than Brady ::eye roll::

[Bangarang]

57 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Well, umm, yeah.  To me it shows the importance of continuity for their organization.  They know exactly how they want to play and thus know exactly the kinds of players they need.

 

Continuity probably comes easy when you have the greatest QB running the same scheme for 20 years. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it right?

[row_33]

2 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I see that being a bigger deal than brady retiring.

 

Nothing stopping the Pats from getting a great replacement for Brady, like Montana/Young and Favre/Rodgers

 

i would prefer the Bills try to build a team instead of waiting for the pats to suck as bad as the Bills have

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by row_33

[Bangarang]

53 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

 

Well, I think  that it is a good idea to model your practices on teams that have been very successful and a first step is to see what they do and how it is different from what others and you do.  The Pats have been to a lot more playoffs and SB's than the Bills, especially lately.

 

If the plan is for McD and Allen to go down as 2 of the greatest ever then I’m all for that plan. 

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

Maybe this isn’t as interesting as you think it is? 

 

What conclusion can we draw from the OP’s post? The Patriots are not great at drafting. They don’t have some magic formula that shows which rounds are the best for drafting OL. They simply have the greatest HC and QB.

Right. Key detail being "the greatest HC". Would it not be interesting to dissect the way Belichick drafts linemen? Sometimes it's better not to say anything at all. Let the views and responses dictate the validity and value of a thread, not you. Seems to me you feel you have more authority than you actually do. Some people practically live here. Your 2,700 reputations mean nothing. I've seen amazing contributions from newbies. Maybe you should come down off your high horse. 

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Continuity probably comes easy when you have the greatest QB running the same scheme for 20 years. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it right?

Proving my point

[Success]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Scarnecchia is a wizard.  I can't wait for him to retire, for good.

 No one is more responsible for the longevity of Brady’s career.  Much more so than the makers of avocado ice cream.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

There was a reason they begged him to come out of retirement.  He somehow gets the most out of any player he's given to work with and that's a key for that offense and even Brady.

It's Brady.

[Bangarang]

14 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Right. Key detail being "the greatest HC". Would it not be interesting to dissect the way Belichick drafts linemen?

 

What is there to dissect? Good players can come from any round. Lots of good players go undradted. The Pats aren’t some superior team at drafting. Their misses are often forgotten because they still have the best QB and HC carrying them to success year in and year out. If you’re constsntly playing in SBs then nobody really cares if you whiff on players in the draft.

 

Quote

Sometimes it's better not to say anything at all. Let the views and responses dictate the validity and value of a thread, not you.

 

Im not dictating anything. I’m not preventing others from participating. Point being, if you want some kind of discussion then it’s probably best to include some kind of substance that elicits a discussion

 

Quote

Seems to me you feel you have more authority than you actually do.

 

That’s nice

 

Quote

Some people practically live here. Your 2,700 reputations mean nothing.

 

I absolutely agree which is why I never mention or care about rep points.

 

Quote

I've seen amazing contributions from newbies. Maybe you should come down off your high horse. 

 

But I like the view from up here.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Bangarang

[Victory Formation]

14 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

What is there to dissect? Good players can come from any round. Lots of good players go undradted. The Pats aren’t some superior team at drafting. Their misses are often forgotten because they still have the best QB and HC carrying them to success year in and year out. If you’re constsntly playing in SBs then nobody really cares if you whiff on players in the draft.

I would rather focus on the positive overlap, the agreeable territory, not the negatives. The last 5 months there was a whole lotta nothing here so I ghosted through everything, not a word was said. Even today, 90% of the front page I was not interested in. You crapped on one of the few threads I wanted to discuss and sift through. I'm not mad at you or anything, but if I did what you did I'd be dropping never ending dookies and cropdustings in every section and every corner of TBD.

Edited April 7, 2019 by NewDayBills

[Pirate Angel]

5 hours ago, MakeBuffaloGreatAgain said:

I always laugh when a Patriot O Lineman goes somewhere else and sucks for some reason... it’s a little different than having to pass block for less than a second and being allowed to hold if you get beat. 

That and never having to see an 8 man front 

[Boca BIlls]

3 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Gee, have you looked at the final division standings for the last 10 years?

What does division standings have to do with O-Line?

[Doc]

3 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Yea... he’s more important than Brady ::eye roll::

 

3 hours ago, MJS said:

It's Brady.

 

Brady's a great QB.  But the fact remains that the Cheaters are 14-6 without him. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Doc

[GimmeSomeProcess]

Well it shows they have vets already in place and can develop these linemen the right way 

[MJS]

36 minutes ago, Doc said:

Brady's a great QB.  But the fact remains that the Cheaters are 14-6 without him. 

Pretty small sample size. They also missed the playoffs without him in 2008. And that team was coming off their undefeated regular season and a Superbowl appearance.

[IgotBILLStopay]

7 hours ago, MakeBuffaloGreatAgain said:

I always laugh when a Patriot O Lineman goes somewhere else and sucks for some reason... it’s a little different than having to pass block for less than a second and being allowed to hold if you get beat. 

 

You snuck that in, didnt ya? Love it.