Siberian’ stigma: How the Bills recruit free agents to Buffalo and why deep pockets don’t always help

[Bing Bong]

20 hours ago, Buffalo86 said:

"Honestly, I've been playing Madden with my boys, and I created a franchise and I created my player, and I went to the [Buffalo] Bills.  Throughout the season ... it was snowing and I'm like, 'I gotta get traded.'  But I picked the Bills because I like [quarterback] Tyrod [Taylor], and Sammy [Watkins] and all those great receivers.  And they have nice uniforms, so I went there and I demanded a release, and then I signed with the Raiders for a three or four year deal contract for, like, $26 million and it was cool.  It was me ... and [receiver] Amari [Cooper] and we were dominating, we were the franchise.  We're almost to the Super Bowl, about to meet up with Tom Brady ..."

He's a damn good franchise Madden player too. ALWAYS RELOCATE AND DEMAND A TRADE first thing in Madden. You rule the fake tabloids. 

 

Stops the game from spamming press releases about how Blake Bortles is on his way to his 7th MVP and 5th consecutive 6,000 yard season.

 

Damn! How did we let him slip away!

Edited January 30, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[billsfan89]

Players go to markets for the following reasons. 

 

1- Money

2- Winning/Team Culture

3- Market/City Culture

 

The Bills with their ownerships willingness to spend and in their current salary cap position can compete with anyone on the money front. But while McD's playoff appearance and shifting of the organization culture has started to move the needle the Bills are not perceived to be a winning organization just yet so organizations like New England, Seattle, and more established winning teams are going to have an edge if a player is interested in winning. However this is something that can change if Allen pans out and the team makes the playoffs again in 2019. 

 

However Buffalo is a third tier NFL city. Don't get me wrong I love Buffalo but its not a cultural hub the same way LA, NYC, Chicago, or to a lesser degree Miami is and the weather in the city is much less appealing than Southern cities like Houston or even Tampa Bay. These things aren't as important as money or winning but they do play a factor for players choosing teams. 

 

That being said thanks to ownership willing to spend money is not an issue (The cap could be) and if the team starts to win then the opportunity to win will not be a negative. Get those two things in place and your teams roadblock of not being in a sexy market isn't that big. 

5 hours ago, corta765 said:

I believe a lot of this up until about 2016. I say 2016 because since then Buffalo has seen a massive revitalization with the downtown area with a lot being offered and open with articles coming out monthly saying its a place to visit.

 

They city fundamentally is different since then and the also in 2016 was the real elevation of the Bills Mafia crazyness.

 

I do not doubt some would avoid the area for certain reasons, but reputation wise I do think the area is different now compared to even 5 years ago which does matter.  That said reputation is what it is the team will have to work harder then others and overcome taxes like Tim discusses. And the biggest thing is winning. When Buffalo was winning they got FA's like Bryce Paup and James Lofton. If Allen goes 11-5 next year and lights it up players will over look a good amount.

 

The issue is that Buffalo is a cold weather city and not an apex media center like NYC or Chicago. So while I do think that the Bills Mafia has added something to the culture of the team and Buffalo as a city is on a general upswing it still isn't going to be looked at as a super sexy market for players. However with an owner willing to spend once you start to win you won't have that hard a time recruiting players to a winning situation. Even in the early 2000's under Donahue the Bills signed pretty big free agents like Sam Adams, Spikes, and Fletcher. 

[Augie]

I wonder how much state income taxes come into play and if there is anything that can be done to level the playing field. It seems only fair. Can the next CBA tinker with the cap to eliminate that advantage tax free states get? I know I’d consider it if a FA. 

[SydneyBillsFan]

Ok, so we apparently suffer from being a small city team in brass monkey weather - why does Green Bay not suffer for the same reasons?

Edited January 31, 2019 by SydneyBillsFan

[GoBills808]

On 1/29/2019 at 9:27 AM, 2018 Our Year For Sure said:

26CB never told me this. Wonder why?

 

...

 

On 1/29/2019 at 10:04 AM, Nextmanup said:

There's already a thread on this article.

 

Asked and answered!

[White Linen]

4 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

Ok, so we suffer from being a small city team in brass monkey weather - why does Green Bay not suffer for the same reasons?

 

We don't suffer.  There's not one free agent that we lost out on that went to Green Bay that I can remember. 

[tcampbell104]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

We don't suffer.  There's not one free agent that we lost out on that went to Green Bay that I can remember. 

didnt we offer bryan bulaga a contract but he chose to stay in green bay for less money

[RememberTheRockpile]

On 1/29/2019 at 7:09 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eh. This stuff is so overrated.  Put me in charge of the Bills and we would have no problem getting free agents.

I think the league frowns upon sending Guido to get players to sign by making them an offer they can't refuse.

[Luka]

If you love football you come to Buffalo. You bring Buffalo to greatness (or even on the doorstep of) and you're a legend.

[YoloinOhio]

43 minutes ago, tcampbell104 said:

didnt we offer bryan bulaga a contract but he chose to stay in green bay for less money

Yes

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

Ok, so we apparently suffer from being a small city team in brass monkey weather - why does Green Bay not suffer for the same reasons?

 

Because the Packers have always had one of the top 3-4 QB's in the NFL for the past 25 years.

 

Before that they suffered plenty for 2+ decades.

 

The Bills traditionally have been very negligent wrt being all-in on QB propects and hiring good HC's.

 

Allen was the first QB that they have ever traded up within round 1 to acquire..............and they still haven't simply selected one with their very first pick in ANY draft since 1960.

 

Ralph was a poor steward in that regard......he was always tryna get instant producers in round 1 and being a dinosaur football fan loved him some RB's.........and of course he didn't like HC's who were not comfortable with his meddling which put him out of the "proven" HC market for 30 years until he tried in vain to lure Shanahan to take over his moribund franchise.

 

The Pegs have been going thru a painful learning curve.........they really weren't even big football fans before they bought the team..........but hopefully they learn that they need to always be a QB and HC -centric organization.

[junior]

2 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

Ok, so we apparently suffer from being a small city team in brass monkey weather - why does Green Bay not suffer for the same reasons?

 

They at least have a history of fielding competent teams and making the playoffs. We... do not. 

 

There's lots of fans in this thread saying that winning cures (almost) all. That's true. But we haven't exactly done a whole lot of winning in the last 20 years. Now combine that with the myriad of other factors Graham laid out in the article and you can understand why coaches threaten that they'll trade players to Buffalo. 

[BFLO]

On 1/29/2019 at 8:45 PM, White Linen said:

 

I consider what you posted earlier and above linked.   The most dangerous thing we can get ourselves involved is believing our thoughts are truth.  

 

Who decides what's moral and what isn't?

 

You mock the generation or two before you - yet they've had more success with marriage.  The young people of today lecture the past yet things are clearly worse.  

But divorce rates are in decline. Young people are having more success with marriage than previous generations. Boomers and Gen X are the 2 worst generations of all time when it comes to divorce. Millennials are bringing the numbers back down.  

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/state-marriage-rates-90-95-99-17.pdf

[Mrbojanglezs]

Bills just need to have a recruiting team like college. Have a video put together with former players, fans etc vouching. Send it out to all prospective agents. Just need to sell it s little more .

 

But yes there are some diva type players that we probably would never be able to get to come here unless we are only option. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Mrbojanglezs

[PromoTheRobot]

46 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Bills just need to have a recruiting team like college. Have a video put together with former players, fans etc vouching. Send it out to all prospective agents. Just need to sell it s little more .

 

But yes there are some diva type players that we probably would never be able to get to come here unless we are only option. 

 

Like this?

 

 

[Punching Bag]

On 1/29/2019 at 2:23 PM, Logic said:

https://theathletic.com/790400/2019/01/29/siberian-stigma-how-the-bills-recruit-free-agents-to-buffalo-and-why-deep-pockets-dont-always-help/?redirected=1

Tim Graham just posted the above article to Theathletic.com.

It discusses the difficulties in getting free agents to come to Buffalo. 

It's an all-around good article, but the nugget buried in the middle that was most interesting to me is this: 

"Mike Shanahan has stated he would’ve been the Bills’ coach if his wife hadn’t refused to come."

Maybe everyone else already knew that, but it came as news to me. Interesting "what if" to ponder.

 

He fails to include the constant bashing of the Bills by "home" press does not help.  

It has improved now that Sulky and Bucky are gone so chances are probably up too.

[billsfan_34]

All open air cold cities- Green Bay, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, New England, Chicago, New York’s (Jersey), Baltimore, Washington, and Cincinatti- I know some cities are milder/colder than others but the point I am making is there is other places that have similarities and their is only 32 teams in the NFL. 1/3 of the league is “cold” and players will have to sign in those places also so why not us? 

[Shaw66]

Apologies to all who've posted here.  I haven't read any posts; just read the article.    When Logic posts, I have to listen, and he's right on the money, so to speak, with this article.

 

In many respects I think what's said in this article is irrelevant.   True, but irrelevant.  I'll get to that in a minute.   

 

First, Nix's comments are interesting.   We've heard about the taxes before, but the article makes it very clear.  The agents are doing these calculations, and I would guess that there are times in the past when the Bills have had to raise an offer simply to cover the tax differential with the team they're competing with to get a player.  

 

Second, Nix's point about the players making decisions based on things that seem trivial.   I'm sure that happens.  

 

Third, wives definitely can have an impact.

 

Here's why I think the article is largely irrelevant:  McBeane have made it very clear that they only want players who are buying what they are selling.   They are selling a team concept that is ALL IN - truly ALL IN  - with team, competition, hard work, continuous improvement.   They are looking for guys who are maniacal about contributing to a team that wins football games.   So when you read what Jared Cook says in the article, about how the city has to be interesting, what that tells you is that Jared Cook isn't going to be a Buffalo Bill.  For McDermott only two two or three things are important:  (1) Are you the kind of player who is looking for this team environment, (2) Is family the only other thing you care about as deeply as winning in a team environment and (3), if you're religious, is your religion up there with 1 and 2?   That's it.   The minute McDermott understands that local entertainment options is a consideration for a player, that player is off the list.   The only thing that's relevant about the city of Buffalo, so far as McDermott is concerned, is that it is a city whose fans are as passionate as they could possibly be about the team.  The guys McBeane want are guys who view fan passion as a plus.  Those guys don't care how many malls there are, how many night clubs there are, but they are in love with the idea that the fans are over the top. 

 

Look at the Patriots.   I like Boston, but it's kind of an acquired taste.   Young football players who are looking for nightlife can find plenty of activity in Boston, but the whole vibe is intellectual.   It isn't about partying.   Does New England have trouble signing free agents?   I'm sure there are some free agents who say they don't want to live in Boston (which, by the way, has some of the same tax problems New York does).   Yes, for that reason, and because Belichick simply will not pay top dollar for the big names, the Pats have trouble signing free agents.  But guess what - Belichick, like McBeane, doesn't want guys who make their decisions about where to play based on money or night life.   

 

Bottom line is that the pool from which McBeane select free agents doesn't include guys who find Buffalo unattractive, for tax reasons or lifestyle reasons.   The minute those guys say they need more money because the city is a problem, McBeane stop wasting their time on them.  They don't want guys who think differences in the money are important, and they don't want guys who think the city is important.  Don't want them.   

 

Al of that works for McBeane, of course, only if they're winning, because the guys they want only want to commit to a process that gets results.   So it's a bit of chicken or the egg.   That's why, as the article points out, Josh Allen is important.  Allen makes McBeane more credible when they say this team will win.  

[Buffalo_Gal]

Well, tripadvisor likes Buffalo . ?‍♀️

(sorry if already posted, I'm not slogging through 8 pages of "but NYS taxes" and "snow!" ? )

[Jrb1979]

15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Apologies to all who've posted here.  I haven't read any posts; just read the article.    When Logic posts, I have to listen, and he's right on the money, so to speak, with this article.

 

In many respects I think what's said in this article is irrelevant.   True, but irrelevant.  I'll get to that in a minute.   

 

First, Nix's comments are interesting.   We've heard about the taxes before, but the article makes it very clear.  The agents are doing these calculations, and I would guess that there are times in the past when the Bills have had to raise an offer simply to cover the tax differential with the team they're competing with to get a player.  

 

Second, Nix's point about the players making decisions based on things that seem trivial.   I'm sure that happens.  

 

Third, wives definitely can have an impact.

 

Here's why I think the article is largely irrelevant:  McBeane have made it very clear that they only want players who are buying what they are selling.   They are selling a team concept that is ALL IN - truly ALL IN  - with team, competition, hard work, continuous improvement.   They are looking for guys who are maniacal about contributing to a team that wins football games.   So when you read what Jared Cook says in the article, about how the city has to be interesting, what that tells you is that Jared Cook isn't going to be a Buffalo Bill.  For McDermott only two two or three things are important:  (1) Are you the kind of player who is looking for this team environment, (2) Is family the only other thing you care about as deeply as winning in a team environment and (3), if you're religious, is your religion up there with 1 and 2?   That's it.   The minute McDermott understands that local entertainment options is a consideration for a player, that player is off the list.   The only thing that's relevant about the city of Buffalo, so far as McDermott is concerned, is that it is a city whose fans are as passionate as they could possibly be about the team.  The guys McBeane want are guys who view fan passion as a plus.  Those guys don't care how many malls there are, how many night clubs there are, but they are in love with the idea that the fans are over the top. 

 

Look at the Patriots.   I like Boston, but it's kind of an acquired taste.   Young football players who are looking for nightlife can find plenty of activity in Boston, but the whole vibe is intellectual.   It isn't about partying.   Does New England have trouble signing free agents?   I'm sure there are some free agents who say they don't want to live in Boston (which, by the way, has some of the same tax problems New York does).   Yes, for that reason, and because Belichick simply will not pay top dollar for the big names, the Pats have trouble signing free agents.  But guess what - Belichick, like McBeane, doesn't want guys who make their decisions about where to play based on money or night life.   

 

Bottom line is that the pool from which McBeane select free agents doesn't include guys who find Buffalo unattractive, for tax reasons or lifestyle reasons.   The minute those guys say they need more money because the city is a problem, McBeane stop wasting their time on them.  They don't want guys who think differences in the money are important, and they don't want guys who think the city is important.  Don't want them.   

 

Al of that works for McBeane, of course, only if they're winning, because the guys they want only want to commit to a process that gets results.   So it's a bit of chicken or the egg.   That's why, as the article points out, Josh Allen is important.  Allen makes McBeane more credible when they say this team will win.  

Basically they want Blue Collar type players that represent the Blue Collar fan base. All I will say is good luck with that. At some point you need the Antonio Brown type players to get you to the Super Bowl. Blue collar teams may have worked in the past.