Andre Reed Criticizes Personnel Decisions

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Since when does appreciating the past equate to “living” in it? Sure I’d love to have my teen years back from the 90’s too, but I’m doing just fine in my 40’s now, thank you very much. Tradition, appreciation and expecting a certain level of competency based on previously hit high water marks? What’s wrong with that? 

 

Well, as the analytics kiddies are fond of reminding us all, it's a DIFFERENT ERA.

 

The relevance to today is nil, at best. Most of these players weren't alive when Andre Reed played the game.

 

And you're fooling yourself if you don't think posters here value Andre Reed's opinion over the front office's.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

Jordan Matthews, another ex-Bill. Maybe Andre is on to something 

[Bill from NYC]

23 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Appreciate their efforts, but they and they alone bear responsibility for their ultimate failure. It's high time that the franchise wuits living in the past, man.

Sure Joe. Levy had nothing to do with it.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

What was the end game of him putting the current FO on blast publically? Probably to rile up the fans or whatever, and he succeeded. But the current ownership and FO have no ties to the 90s Bills. So it’s like yelling in a closet where no one can hear you. They don’t care.  If he has something to say he should say it to them straight. But he won’t. 

McD has gone out of his way several times to include 90’s alums in practice speeches, has had dinners with them to pick their brains, and all around has praised them umpteen times for what they’ve done for the Bills. That’s been reciprocated by many of the albums as well about the current coaching staff. What’s the problem here exactly? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Bill from NYC said:

Sure Joe. Levy had nothing to do with it.

 

had kelly stuffed his ego in a bag and fed thruman in the first super bowl, they'd have ROUTED the Giants.

 

I have no doubt about that.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Safe.

 

Who wants to live safely? I want to live on the edge.

 

Go hang with Bon Jovi?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, the skycap said:

Go hang with Bon Jovi?

 

Now THAT is a quality response. +1 REP POINT FOR YOU, SIR.

 

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Go hang with Bon Jovi?

 

Play nice....

[Solomon Grundy]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

had kelly stuffed his ego in a bag and fed thruman in the first super bowl, they'd have ROUTED the Giants.

 

I have no doubt about that.

 

I blame Marv for all the Bills SB losses. That stupid statement he made about execution trumps out thinking, and I'm paraphrasing, lost me.

[Bill from NYC]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

had kelly stuffed his ego in a bag and fed thruman in the first super bowl, they'd have ROUTED the Giants.

 

I have no doubt about that.

 

Do you also fully absolve Ralph?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Bill from NYC said:

Do you also fully absolve Ralph?

 

 

You know better than that.

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Well, as the analytics kiddies are fond of reminding us all, it's a DIFFERENT ERA.

 

The relevance to today is nil, at best. Most of these players weren't alive when Andre Reed played the game.

 

And you're fooling yourself if you don't think posters here value Andre Reed's opinion over the front office's.

 

Sure it’s a different era. But his takes are informed by an actual knowledge base that most posters here would lack. I’d like to think however, that most people who appreciate our alums are also sophisticated enough to understand the difference between a current FO employee and someone just offering up an opinion, even if that someone happens to be an NFL vet. I don’t read anything more into Reed’s take than that he has a certain level of frustration and he happened to air it publicly this time. He’s human like anyone else who maybe should’ve taken a breath before pressing “send.” No need to bash him for it personally however. He’s earned at least that much respect from all of us here, no?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Sure it’s a different era. But his takes are informed by an actual knowledge base that most posters here would lack. I’d like to think however, that most people who appreciate our alums are also sophisticated enough to understand the difference between a current FO employee and someone just offering up an opinion, even if that someone happens to be an NFL vet. I don’t read anything more into Reed’s take than that he has a certain level of frustration and he happened to air it publicly this time. He’s human like anyone else who maybe should’ve taken a breath before pressing “send.” No need to bash him for it personally however. He’s earned at least that much respect from all of us here, no?

 

I'll admit to some personal bias against Reed. I've met him and his family, and came away unimpressed with both. I hold guys like Bennett and Thurman in a much higher regard.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

had kelly stuffed his ego in a bag and fed thruman in the first super bowl, they'd have ROUTED the Giants.

 

I have no doubt about that.

 

I do. You don’t think young Hoodie would’ve been able to adjust his D accordingly?

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I'll admit to some personal bias against Reed. I've met him and his family, and came away unimpressed with both. I hold guys like Bennett and Thurman in a much higher regard.

 

Thanks for the admission. I’ve never met him or his family, so you have me at a disadvantage sir! And then you can safely leave Jim out of this discussion, right? ?

Edited January 13, 2019 by NoHuddleKelly12

[YoloinOhio]

35 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

McD has gone out of his way several times to include 90’s alums in practice speeches, has had dinners with them to pick their brains, and all around has praised them umpteen times for what they’ve done for the Bills. That’s been reciprocated by many of the albums as well about the current coaching staff. What’s the problem here exactly? 

Problem with what - his tweet? Imo it was tacky. If he said it to them straight in the venue you mentioned where he’s privately discussing the team with him, that’s appropriate and perhaps even effective. Subtweeting the organization on twitter is not. It lacked class imo. Because all it does is splash it all over social media for the fans to react to and accomplishes nothing. 

 

Subtweeting is for cowards, jmo. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Royale with Cheese]

I bet Reed wouldn’t say it to my face!

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Problem with what - his tweet? Imo it was tacky. If he said it to them straight in the venue you mentioned where he’s privately discussing the team with him, that’s appropriate and perhaps even effective. Subtweeting the organization on twitter is not. It lacked class imo. Because all it does is splash it all over social media for the fans to react to and accomplishes nothing. 

 

Subtweeting is for cowards, jmo. 

Is subtweeting under your real name more or less cowardly than posting anonymously in a fan forum to complain about cowards? 

[Bill_with_it]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

I presume he is referring to Mahomes.  I would probably disagree as to whether Mahomes is the best player in the NFL, but he certainly is the best young QB in the NFL and McCoach handed him to the Chiefs.  We could have picked him with our own pick without having to give up so much to trade up to select Josh.

 

P.S. I am still hopeful that Josh will continue to progress, but we clearly gave up a premium for Josh when we could have picked Mahomes without giving up anything extra.

Mahomes also has a master offensive guru, the fastest we in the game, and a te who is open even when he is not. NFL is a team game, while Mahomes is looking good there is zero assurance that he would have been here, in addition to that we were still in the midst of establishing the coaches and other positions. It simply wasn’t our time, if that is too hard to understand or if you are unwilling to understand it then a message board isn’t for you.

[BillsVet]

17 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

Mahomes also has a master offensive guru, the fastest we in the game, and a te who is open even when he is not. NFL is a team game, while Mahomes is looking good there is zero assurance that he would have been here, in addition to that we were still in the midst of establishing the coaches and other positions. It simply wasn’t our time, if that is too hard to understand or if you are unwilling to understand it then a message board isn’t for you.

 

In other words, when a QB was available in '17 (actually 2), McCoach decided a CB and the 91st pick was the best decision.  And, they could get the QB later. 

 

Deferring on QB has plagued this organization going back years.  It leads to being backed into a corner and taking a QB out of desperation (See 2013, 2018 drafts).  

 

As in, after 2012 when Fitz was DFA'd and in 2017 when TT proved he wasn't starting material.  

 

Year after year I'm amazed at the verbal gymnastics some fans will exhibit to defend their team against accusations of ineptitude. 

 

Buffalo essentially gave up on the 2018 season to enjoy cap flexibility in the future.  Pretty gutsy strategy when some teams are firing HC's after 2 or even 1 season.  

 

Trust the process, right? 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by BillsVet

[Bill_with_it]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Lmao.

 

"It wasn't our time." 

 

Why must we make excuses for the regime?

 

I like Allen, but you'd be an idiot not to exchange Allen for Mahomes at this point. 

 

Just call it like it is. These guys chose the more difficult path to success in their choice of rebuild. 

 

Many here have given them credit for tearing everything down, I'll wait until they actually build it back up and they start winning. 

At this point (key word),  it back then. As I recall multiple teams past on the opportunity of Mahomes. He and you are hindsighting like it’s cool. They chose what they chose. As did 31 other teams, that didn’t draft Mahomes. 

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

In other words, when a QB was available in '17 (actually 2), McCoach decided a CB and the 91st pick was the best decision.  And, they could get the QB later. 

 

Deferring on QB has plagued this organization going back years.  It leads to being backed into a corner and taking a QB out of desperation (See 2013, 2018 drafts).  

 

As in, after 2012 when Fitz was DFA'd and in 2017 when TT proved he wasn't starting material.  

 

Year after year I'm amazed at the verbal gymnastics some fans will exhibit to defend their team against accusations of ineptitude. 

 

Buffalo essentially gave up on the 2018 season to enjoy cap flexibility in the future.  Pretty gutsy strategy when some teams are firing HC's after 2 or even 1 season.  

 

Trust the process, right? 

 

So you are attributing the failed quarterbacks of yesteryear to Sean and Beane? Interesting and original concept. 

[BillsVet]

4 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

So you are attributing the failed quarterbacks of yesteryear to Sean and Beane? Interesting and original concept. 

 

No. I'm saying that you take a QB when one is available and don't delay that decision because the timing isn't perfect.

 

Decisions made out of desperation are typically not good.   

 

 

[Bill_with_it]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

No. I'm saying that you take a QB when one is available and don't delay that decision because the timing isn't perfect.

 

Decisions made out of desperation are typically not good.   

 

 

That’s stupid if one is available at 9 we aren’t taking one and to do so would be irresponsible and ignorant. What you would have had them do is select a qb when they weren’t sold on him which is by your statement desperation and typically not good.

[LSHMEAB]

6 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

That’s stupid if one is available at 9 we aren’t taking one and to do so would be irresponsible and ignorant. What you would have had them do is select a qb when they weren’t sold on him which is by your statement desperation and typically not good.

Forget about the whole hindsight debate. Would you rather have Mahomes or Allen? You have a choice right now. Who are you taking?

 

I just don't think you have to play make believe to be a Bills fan. I'd rather see the Bills win the Superbowl and Allen throw for 60 TD's, but I call it like I see it.

Edited January 13, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[TigerJ]

I don't know all the stats, but I'm pretty sure that most of those former Bills players were dumped by the Bills before the current regime.  They departed the Bills for various reasons.  Maybe they weren't performing as needed (for whatever reason).  Maybe there were cap issues.  I know in some cases, the Bills changed offensive and defensive coaching staffs and schemes making some players a poor fit for the new system.  The age of the cap is all about movement from team to team because the whole system is designed to make it difficult for teams to hold on to more than a very few great players.  Andre Reed might be right, but I don't know how much you cn really blame the front office, and certainly the current front office can't be blamed for player movement prior to to 2017.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Forget about the whole hindsight debate. Would you rather have Mahomes or Allen? You have a choice right now. Who are you taking?

 

I just don't think you have to play make believe to be a Bills fan. I'd rather see the Bills win the Superbowl and Allen throw for 60 TD's, but I call it like I see it.

 

To what end? You're talking about make believe, that's a make believe situation. That choice will never ever be made.

 

So you're dealing in a hypothetical to push an agenda that you don't approve of the front office/coaches.

 

Let's keep it real here.

 

[Peter]

34 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

Mahomes also has a master offensive guru, the fastest we in the game, and a te who is open even when he is not. NFL is a team game, while Mahomes is looking good there is zero assurance that he would have been here, in addition to that we were still in the midst of establishing the coaches and other positions. It simply wasn’t our time, if that is too hard to understand or if you are unwilling to understand it then a message board isn’t for you.

 

It apparently is beyond me to understand why it was better to not draft a great QB prospect when we had the chance but to rather have to give up so many more assets to select a very raw QB* . . . and at the same time get rid of the proven LT (Cordy) who one would think we would want to keep to protect a young QB.

 

While we are at it, I also do not understand why we surrounded our young QB with substandard talent.

 

* I am still hopeful for Josh . . . but I dare say the vast majority (if not all) GMs outside of One Bills Drive would not trade Mahomes for Josh.

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

To what end? You're talking about make believe, that's a make believe situation. That choice will never ever be made.

 

So you're dealing in a hypothetical to push an agenda that you don't approve of the front office/coaches.

 

Let's keep it real here.

 

Fair enough. But it would be great if Allen shuts us all up next season. It really would. That's what this is gonna boil down to. If he gets it done, I'm not gonna give a rats a** about Mahomes. I don't expect 50 TD's or anything crazy. Just play solid efficient football. Something like 25 passing TD's and 3500 yards with a 9-7 record would he a huge step in the right direction.

[Bill_with_it]

8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Forget about the whole hindsight debate. Would you rather have Mahomes or Allen? You have a choice right now. Who are you taking?

 

I just don't think you have to play make believe to be a Bills fan. I'd rather see the Bills win the Superbowl and Allen throw for 60 TD's, but I call it like I see it.

My answer is I’m sticking with the program that i have started and given Allen a second year. If Mahomes comes with Kelce, hunt, and Reid for Allen, clay, and David sure. Mahomes wouldn’t be the Mahomes you see today with the assets the bills have on offense.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Fair enough. But it would be great if Allen shuts us all up next season. It really would. That's what this is gonna boil down to. If he gets it done, I'm not gonna give a rats a** about Mahomes. I don't expect 50 TD's or anything crazy. Just play solid efficient football. Something like 25 passing TD's and 3500 yards with a 9-7 record would he a huge step in the right direction.

 

I can dig it!

 

[Bill_with_it]

5 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

It apparently is beyond me to understand why it was better to not draft a great QB prospect when we had the chance but to rather have to give up so many more assets to select a very raw QB* . . . and at the same time get rid of the proven LT (Cordy) who one would think we would want to keep to protect a young QB.

 

While we are at it, I also do not understand why we surrounded our young QB with substandard talent.

 

* I am still hopeful for Josh . . . but I dare say the vast majority (if not all) GMs outside of One Bills Drive would not trade Mahomes for Josh.

Corey Glenn has missed so many games the year prior with an ankle injury. Hey what did Corey do this year? He missed games this year. He hasn’t played a full year in 3 years. 

 

Well if Whaley hadn’t completely destroyed our cap and (did you watch the year end presser by Beane), we likely would have had more weapons.

 

Every organization except the Chiefs must be idiots too as they dont have Mahomes on their team.

[Aussie Joe]

26 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Buffalo essentially gave up on the 2018 season to enjoy cap flexibility in the future.  Pretty gutsy strategy when some teams are firing HC's after 2 or even 1 season.  

 

 

 

 

Gutsy strategy but it appears to have worked since McBeane are both safe in 2019, and it wouldn't be too hard to imagine them bringing in a couple of free agents and a high draft pick or two and having a better year next year and seeing 2020 as well...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[from_dunkirk]

5 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

"Doesn’t it seem like a lot of the #Bills released or traded players are in the PLAYOFFS ? ?????

#weneedtotakenotes #BillsMafia 
#nfl #playoffs #rethinkthings"

 

He said this on Twitter. Kind of surprising, the former Bills have been almost 100% super positive until the news about Reich was made public. 

 

Personally, we need at least a playoff appearance next year and honestly a win. Then I'll be 100% sold and would be ok with extending McDermott. 

 

I got criticized on another thread here for saying the same thing. Woods, Watkins, Benjamin, Hogan, Gillmore, Robey-Coleman, Jones. But if Andre says it, it's true. Got it.

 

Guess I was right afterall.

Edited January 13, 2019 by from_dunkirk

[Peter]

9 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

Corey Glenn has missed so many games the year prior with an ankle injury. Hey what did Corey do this year? He missed games this year. He hasn’t played a full year in 3 years. 

 

Well if Whaley hadn’t completely destroyed our cap and (did you watch the year end presser by Beane), we likely would have had more weapons.

 

Every organization except the Chiefs must be idiots too as they dont have Mahomes on their team.

 

I would rather have Cordy Glenn than any offensive linemen that we have on our team.  The Bengals got a steal.  At the same time, we saw Dawkins abused in games . . . unlike we EVER saw with Cordy.

 

So yes, I would rather have Cordy.

 

As for weapons, we made NO attempt to bring back Goodwin or Woods (and this bit about Woods would never have signed with us is revisionist history).  At the same time, if we had chosen Mahomes with our own pick, we could have what we gave up to trade up for Josh to improve our offensive talent.

 

I have not even mentioned how the Bills braintrust thought it was a good idea to ask one of our few pro bowl guys to take a pay cut in the last year of his contract when we had the space and knew (or should have known) that protecting a young QB is instrumental in a young QBs success.

 

As for Whaley, I am not a huge fan as a GM for a variety of reasons (although not a bad evaluator of talent).  Nevertheless, talent costs money. We are going to learn that lesson again this year when we have to (over)pay for free agents.  By the way, some would say that this brain trust overpaid for Star and Trent Murphy. The only difference is that it was McBeane who got the check book out rather than Whaley.

[teef]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

 

I must be reading a different thread.  

 

I read the one where people commented about his hair, that he is still bitter, that he is a has-been, asking whether he is still on the sauce . . . .

 

The "has-been" comment was particularly hilarious given that the people challenging him probably are "never-beens."

 

 

Will you be ok.  I think you’re more annoyed that his opinion is being criticized. That’s what happens when you put yourself out there on Twitter. If Andre can’t handle it, don’t post. 

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Probably right, but a 7 win season wound be disappointing to say the least. 

It would be because it may mean Allen hasn’t progressed that way we hoped. 

[Nuncha]

Nigel Bradham pancaked results in 37 yard run by Ingram.  Jason Peters out with back injury....

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Azucho98

[Peter]

Just now, teef said:

Will you be ok.  I think you’re more annoyed that his opinion is being criticized. That’s what happens when you put yourself out there on Twitter. If Andre can’t handle it, don’t post. 

 

It is perfectly fine to disagree with Andre.  I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with Andre or anyone else on this or anything else.  I wholeheartedly disagreed with Jim Kelly when he said that the Bills should never get a QB from California or Florida.

 

At the same time, I find it hilarious that a bunch of (mostly) keyboard jockeys went out of their way to make snarky remarks about Andre just because they disagreed. 

 

It kind of reminded me of that keyboard jockey Sully (or Bucky for that matter).

[teef]

6 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

It is perfectly fine to disagree with Andre.  I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with Andre or anyone else on this or anything else.  I wholeheartedly disagreed with Jim Kelly when he said that the Bills should never get a QB from California or Florida.

 

At the same time, I find it hilarious that a bunch of (mostly) keyboard jockeys went out of their way to make snarky remarks about Andre just because they disagreed. 

 

It kind of reminded me of that keyboard jockey Sully (or Bucky for that matter).

At this point, Andre is a keyboard jockey too. I love Andre for what he did here, but I think we all need to move on from the Super Bowl days.  He has no connection to this team anymore, and I think it rubs the old guys the wrong way. 

 

Besides, what Andre said was kinda meh. Again, there’s a lot of players on these playoffs teams that come from other teams first. This isn’t a bills specific problem. Very few who have left the bills have really elevated their team at all. They’re the same guys or worse, but in different uniforms. Teams lose guys. 

 

On top of that, a poster commented that Andre could manage a team better than mcd. Come on now. Andre was a great wr, but it’s over. He’s just a fan like us now. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by teef

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

6 hours ago, eSJayDee said:

In hindsight, our handling of the WR certainly was ass-backward.  Having Woods on our team now would certainly bolster our WR corp and would've been a bargain relative to what we paid for the production we got from his replacement(s).  I never could understand how we let Robey-Coleman get away.

 

At the time the rumors were that Woods wanted to go to a west coast team since he was from there.  At a minimum if he could be convinced to stay east, why go to a team as shaky as the Bills were..

[NoHuddleKelly12]

16 minutes ago, teef said:

At this point, Andre is a keyboard jockey too. I love Andre for what he did here, but I think we all need to move on from the Super Bowl days.  He has no connection to this team anymore, and I think it rubs the old guys the wrong way. 

 

Besides, what Andre said was kinda meh. Again, there’s a lot of players on these playoffs teams that come from other teams first. This isn’t a bills specific problem. Very few who have left the bills have really elevated their team at all. They’re the same guys or worse, but in different uniforms. Teams lose guys. 

 

On top of that, a poster commented that Andre could manage a team better than mcd. Come on now. Andre was a great wr, but it’s over. He’s just a fan like us now. 

A lot of valid points teef. However, I really don’t understand what it means to “move on from the Super Bowl days.” As a Bills fan I’ll always be proud of that era and its players. How is that a negative? Again, I’m not saying use the same playbook. I am saying I expect my franchise to show me they are trying to get back to our earlier glory and then some. That should be the standard.

[teef]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

A lot of valid points teef. However, I really don’t understand what it means to “move on from the Super Bowl days.” As a Bills fan I’ll always be proud of that era and its players. How is that a negative? Again, I’m not saying use the same playbook. I am saying I expect my franchise to show me they are trying to get back to our earlier glory and then some. That should be the standard.

I agree, but I was more referring to the nostalgia that surrounds that cast. I grew up with that team and loved every second of it. But when it comes to input with this current staff, the old guys need to let go. Even Bruce Smith was goongnon about not hiring Reich. Enough. They absolutely have the right to criticize the team, but be ready for some blow back. We all love them for what they’ve done, but now they’re fans like us.