ColoradoBills Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: It's going to be a joy to watch the chiefs lose next week I kind of feel the same way. It's a copycat league and I prefer a 28-27 final football game type score. I'm not a fan of 45-42 scores. Once in a while is fine but I prefer my football balanced between all three phases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) “Win with defense...” ? Thats just something they tell fan baseswho DONT have Franchise QBs to make them feel they have a chance come every September. Learned that the hard way these past two decades in Buffalo. Edited January 6, 2019 by RalphWilson'sNewWar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 I dunno. In the first game yesterday, what I saw was this: same old Texans vs. resurgent Colts. One team spinning it's wheels - an allegedly elite defense (tied for 4th in points allowed) that they've seen for many years as their comparative advantage in the NFL, therefore doubling down on it by doing things like drafting Clowney while glossing over other needs. Kind of exactly what the Broncos did with Vonn Miller and now Bradley Chubb. The Texans have been lucky in that Watson was really better than they had a right to expect, and Hopkins emerged as an elite player - those two things alone are enough in the regular season to (so far) have kept them in the playoffs. Meanwhile, the Colts got younger and better everywhere, realizing that if Luck came back they had the key component. They're good, they're peaking at the right time, and I think it's fair to say that they're old darkhorse team "nobody wants to face" in the playoffs now. Two teams on two different trajectories .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgg716 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) The weird thing I don't think anyone has discussed yet how similar Houston is to the bills and how much that showed yesterday. On defense they're completely rwliant on front four pressure and take forever to adjust if at all. Offense is scary similar too a porous online and a reliance on a special quarterback to do everything, they obviously also have an elite receiver but when he was taken away by a very simple defensive scheme the coaches had no clue how to take what was given to them all day long... the Tampa 2 made running lanes for Watson and left the underneath totally wide open. Coutee ran free all day, they figured it out in the 4th. An immensely talented team undermined by awful coaches, hope it wasn't a crystal ball Edited January 6, 2019 by cgg716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 The great offenses haven’t played yet. Maybe defense will prevail but after watching two wild card games it isn’t time to pronounce that the playoffs are the domain of defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 14 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Watched the early game and watching the Boys/Hawks now. Defense always counts in the playoffs. I said this all year and started a thread on it. Funny, I got flamed by the “defense is dead” crowd as they stomped their feet and screamed that ONLY offense matters. They were wrong then, and wrong now. Defense is very important still and very much matters in the postseason. But here is what they read. They see “defense matters still” and they twist that to read ONLY defense matters, which isn’t something anyone has said. They are arguing ONLY offense matters and great defense like an area unnecessary to winning. You will struggle to win championships focusing on just one side of the ball (defense or offense) and ignoring the other. The “defense is dead, only offense matters” statement is grossly inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: But here is what they read. They see “defense matters still” and they twist that to read ONLY defense matters, which isn’t something anyone has said. They are arguing ONLY offense matters and great defense like an area unnecessary to winning. Pretty sure you’re twisting their words much like your complaining they’re twisting yours. I have never seen a post claiming only one side of the ball matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, MDH said: Pretty sure you’re twisting their words much like your complaining they’re twisting yours. I have never seen a post claiming only one side of the ball matters. I'm pretty sure I have. In the playoffs defense counts, running game, passing game. Balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 51 minutes ago, MDH said: Pretty sure you’re twisting their words much like your complaining they’re twisting yours. I have never seen a post claiming only one side of the ball matters. No offense, but you’re wrong about that. I started a similar thread in season and had people saying those things verbatim. And also in other threads and shoutbox. Word for word statements such as: ”Defense is dead” ”Game has changed, only offense matters” ”Our record versus Chiefs/Saints records price only offense matters” ”Fire McD and Beane” because they built our D back up before the offense. I mean it goes on and on. Once defenses started shutting down those offenses and winning games in second half of season, it quieted a little bit. But first half of season it was being spewed everywhere here. And it’s still goin in even in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 You need at least an above average defense to win consistently in the playoffs. When the Colts won in 2006 they had a upper mid level defense and an offense that was great but not nearly as great as it had been in past record setting years. In the NFL once you get to the playoffs you will likely face multiple balanced teams that bring good defense and good offenses to the game. If you don't have a balanced team you will perish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Trogdor said: Defense wins championships....if you have a good QB and an above average or better offense. Watching it right now Chargers versus the Ravens; seems like the Arena Football Gods stay home this weekend! 7 hours ago, oldmanfan said: What a regular season hockey game has to do with the NFL playoff escapes any rayional explanation. One team yesterday shut down the # 1 rushing team in the league and another yielded 7 points. Pretty good D. Others have also mentioned O line. Also important as the Colts showed especially. Do you need good QB play? Sure. Is a QB enough in the playoffs? No. D will always be important. I think you'll see one of the teams next week that have been offensive juggernauts get beat by better D. The Rams most likely just like last year. Oldmanfan rocks! Right on brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Balance Grasshopper. The teams that are doing well and going far have balance. They play well on both sides of the ball. Dallas, the Chargers, NE,... Edited January 6, 2019 by iinii 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Poster Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 17 hours ago, Idandria said: Defense wins championships. Wildcard weekend folks. The best offenses have not even played yet because they got the week off... 3 hours ago, iinii said: Balance Grasshopper. The teams that are doing well and going far have balance. They play well on both sides of the ball. Dallas, the Chargers, NE,... This as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Of the top 10 highest scoring teams since 1990, only one (the '99 Rams) won the Superbowl in their respective years. Edited January 6, 2019 by Capco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Idandria said: Defense wins championships. But offense is what gets you to one.... BUF had the league's #2 overall defense. -#1 against the pass. Edited January 6, 2019 by #34fan typo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 4 hours ago, iinii said: Balance Grasshopper. The teams that are doing well and going far have balance. They play well on both sides of the ball. Dallas, the Chargers, NE,... ^^this. It's NEVER just one thing that makes teams successful. You have to do it ALL well to make it to the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Top 5 scoring teams are all still alive. Top 5 scoring Ds have all been eliminated. Defense is still important but let’s not pretend it’s as important as O in today’s game. Rules changes over the years have made it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, MDH said: Top 5 scoring teams are all still alive. Top 5 scoring Ds have all been eliminated. Defense is still important but let’s not pretend it’s as important as O in today’s game. Rules changes over the years have made it so. Yeah the "super defenses" in Chicago and Baltimore lost on their homefields in the wildcard round. The defenses mucked up the wildcard round a bit.........I expect a lot more action from here on out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgg716 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, MDH said: Top 5 scoring teams are all still alive. Top 5 scoring Ds have all been eliminated. Defense is still important but let’s not pretend it’s as important as O in today’s game. Rules changes over the years have made it so. Exactly. You need EVERY bounce when you are built like that. The Bears have more skill on O than the others and that didn’t even matter. No margin for error, defense is clearly secondary, not meaningless, but secondary by a wide margin. Hopefully our coach starts to get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 And once again effective Offense wins the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: I said this all year and started a thread on it. Funny, I got flamed by the “defense is dead” crowd as they stomped their feet and screamed that ONLY offense matters. They were wrong then, and wrong now. Defense is very important still and very much matters in the postseason. But here is what they read. They see “defense matters still” and they twist that to read ONLY defense matters, which isn’t something anyone has said. They are arguing ONLY offense matters and great defense like an area unnecessary to winning. You will struggle to win championships focusing on just one side of the ball (defense or offense) and ignoring the other. The “defense is dead, only offense matters” statement is grossly inaccurate. Most reasonably intelligent football fans understand you have to score points to win; but you have to stop the other team from scoring points too! Funny how that works; great post Alphadawg7! It's kind of like those who watch hockey only for the fights not knowing anything else about the sport! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Maybe 1 winner this weekend stands a shot next weekend i have learned not to write off the Patriots until the last second ticks off the clock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: And once again effective Offense wins the day. Neither game had truly effective offenses today. Defenses were the best side of the ball for all 4 teams. But credit given where due; at the end when a stop really had to be made teams fell short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 20 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Big name d-players don't translate to wins. It's all offense. IIRC the Patsies** won the SB a few years ago due to a defensive play. Patsies** would have one less Lombardi if Atlanta could have played any D in the second half. Why does it have to be one of the other? My theory is you gotta be great on one side and above average on the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Yeah the "super defenses" in Chicago and Baltimore lost on their homefields in the wildcard round. The defenses mucked up the wildcard round a bit.........I expect a lot more action from here on out. The offense let down not only the defense for the Bears and Ravens but the Texans as well. The Bears held them to 16 points. AND if the Kid hits the FG we are having a slightly different discussion. The Cowgirls and the Chargers both played well on both sides of the ball and look more complete. Both are well respected Defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: IIRC the Patsies** won the SB a few years ago due to a defensive play. Patsies** would have one less Lombardi if Atlanta could have played any D in the second half. Why does it have to be one of the other? My theory is you gotta be great on one side and above average on the other. Couldn’t disagree with this take more. The Pats won a SB a few years ago because the SEA coaches decided they shouldn’t put the game in the hands of their best side and run the ball with Lynch. Atlanta had Shanahan, who in his brilliance forgot to run the ball for over an entire quarter when he had a 28 point lead and the clock was his best friend. These boneheaded transgressions had little to do with defense, but rather with Coaches outsmarting themselves. Edited January 7, 2019 by Boatdrinks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, row_33 said: Maybe 1 winner this weekend stands a shot next weekend i have learned not to write off the Patriots until the last second ticks off the clock I think more than one team can win next weekend. The Chefs and Rams can be had, the Colts and Cowgirls are playing well on both sides of the ball. The Chargers can beat NE but...... Philly is the least likely though imo due to the Saints balance but the Eagles have poise and experience. Should be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, iinii said: I think more than one team can win next weekend. The Chefs and Rams can be had, the Colts and Cowgirls are playing well on both sides of the ball. The Chargers can beat NE but...... Philly is the least likely though imo due to the Saints balance but the Eagles have poise and experience. Should be good Agreed, I think the better teams prevailed this weekend. I’d concur that more than one of them can win in the divisional round, but I’d put the Cowboys as least likely to do so. While their D and pass rush is portable, I think Dak is more likely to put in a sub par performance than the other QBs. It should be an entertaining slate; the divisional round weekend is my favorite of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Couldn’t disagree with this take more. The Pats won a SB a few years ago because the SEA coaches decided they shouldn’t put the game in the hands of their best side and run the ball with Lynch. Atlanta had Shanahan, who in his brilliance forgot to run the ball for over an entire quarter when he had a 28 point lead and the clock was his best friend. These boneheaded transgressions had little to do with defense, but rather with Coaches outsmarting themselves. thanks for responding. You make some good points. However Seattle did not give the football to the Beast because he was like 1 for 6 on the season on 3rd and 4th and 1. AND, Russell Wilson IS one of their best guys too. Wether they should have or not is irrelevant because they didnt. Butter made a great DEFENSIVE play to seal the win. Butter said he knew it was a pass because RW came out of the huddle and looked over and signaled something to WR. Wouldn't do that on a run so he did what he did. Had Bill Bellyache followed your strategy and just put some guy out there because all that matters is offense he d have one less Lombardi today and Pete one more. And as far as Atlanta goes, regardless of it Brian had run of not, if they could have gotten one stop, they win. Again, why does it have to be one of the other? Best TEAM wins. In 2017, the Eagles had the 4th best defense in both yards per game and fewest points per game btw. NE was 5th in fewest points per game given up. But they do it all with offense, right? Edited January 7, 2019 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: thanks for responding. You make some good points. However Seattle did not give the football to the Beast because he was like 1 for 6 on the season on 3rd and 4th and 1. AND, Russell Wilson IS one of their best guys too. Wether they should have or not is irrelevant because they didnt. Butter made a great DEFENSIVE play to seal the win. Butter said he knew it was a pass because RW came out of the huddle and looked over and signaled something to WR. Wouldn't do that on a run so he did what he did. Had Bill Bellyache followed your strategy and just put some guy out there because all that matters is offense he d have one less Lombardi today and Pete one more. And as far as Atlanta goes, regardless of it Brian had run of not, if they could have gotten one stop, they win. Again, why does it have to be one of the other? Best TEAM wins. Maybe, but it doesn’t let them off the hook for being complicit. Like it or not, the NFL rules favor offense. That needs to be used to ones advantage. The flow of the game matters, and there something to be said about dancing with who brung ya. I think Chris Collinsworth said it best in the aftermath. “I’d just give it to Lynch four times from the one, and if they can stop you well then god bless ‘em.” Passing in tight quarters near the goal line is fine, if you’re Peyton Manning with some good receivers and it’s what you’re good at. As for Atlanta, why depend on your defense when you have a 28 point lead and every first down takes two minutes off the clock. Just make it easier on yourself, because the league makes it hard to play defense. Every second that Brady sits on the bench is a good thing. When your opponent only has one way left to win, you don’t give it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: “I’d just give it to Lynch four times from the one, and if they can stop you well then god bless ‘em.” The flow of the game matters, and there something to be said about dancing with who brung ya. I think Chris Collinsworth said it best in the aftermath. “I’d just give it to Lynch four times from the one Except there was :26 left and Seattle had one timeout and it was 2nd down (they gave it to the Beast on 1st down). How ya gonna run it 4 times? https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015020100/2014/POST22/patriots@seahawks i would argue that Russell also "brung ya". No argument that Atlanta blew it. D could have helped but didnt. Tommy's D helped him and they won. No doubt rules are slanted to O. I just disagree that it's ALL offense which is what I initially responded to. The final 4 teams in 2017 all were in the top 5 in fewest points per game given up. We'll see what happens this year. Of the 8 teams left, all are in top 14 in fewest points given up except Rams and Cheaps. NE at 7 btw. Am looking forward to seeing what Rams do vs Cowboys D (#6). Cowboys D did a number on the Saints O a few weeks ago. Likewise Cheaps vs Indy D (#10). Edited January 7, 2019 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, iinii said: The offense let down not only the defense for the Bears and Ravens but the Texans as well. The Bears held them to 16 points. AND if the Kid hits the FG we are having a slightly different discussion. The Cowgirls and the Chargers both played well on both sides of the ball and look more complete. Both are well respected Defenses. The margin for error to string together several wins playing defense is very small. The Seahawks were an exception but they were historically great on defense.......2 TD's and a FG would have been a huge day against them and the Ravens gave up 23......and the Broncos just had a lot fall into place when they had their recent run. And no.........if those home favorites had held on and survived the WC round to go on to the next the story wouldn't have been much different.........it would have just been delayed the inevitable for those teams a week. Like it or not........it's just not as easy for even crazy talented defenses to shut offenses down entirely anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Except there was :26 left and Seattle had one timeout and it was 2nd down (they gave it to the Beast on 1st down). How ya gonna run it 4 times? https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015020100/2014/POST22/patriots@seahawks i would argue that Russell also "brung ya". No argument that Atlanta blew it. D could have helped but didnt. Tommy's D helped him and they won. No doubt rules are slanted to O. I just disagree that it's ALL offense which is what I initially responded to. The final 4 teams in 2017 all were in the top 5 in fewest points per game given up. We'll see what happens this year. Of the 8 teams left, all are in top 14 in fewest points given up except Rams and Cheaps. NE at 7 btw. Am looking forward to seeing what Rams do vs Cowboys D (#6). Cowboys D did a number on the Saints O a few weeks ago. Likewise Cheaps vs Indy D (#10). I would agree that’s it’s not all offensive. Many are given to overstated hot takes on the board lol. Yes, by the four times I was including Lynch’s 1st down carry. SEA just weren’t as good passing as they were running. Russell’s good, but I’d have liked his chances on a keeper there than throwing the ball. He could outrun the D to the pylon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: I would agree that’s it’s not all offensive. Many are given to overstated hot takes on the board lol. Yes, by the four times I was including Lynch’s 1st down carry. SEA just weren’t as good passing as they were running. Russell’s good, but I’d have liked his chances on a keeper there than throwing the ball. As could have Hotrod one year ago today from the 1, but I digress. So we are in agreement. It's not all offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I want the Rams to smack Dallas next week... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgg716 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 hours ago, reddogblitz said: thanks for responding. You make some good points. However Seattle did not give the football to the Beast because he was like 1 for 6 on the season on 3rd and 4th and 1. AND, Russell Wilson IS one of their best guys too. Wether they should have or not is irrelevant because they didnt. Butter made a great DEFENSIVE play to seal the win. Butter said he knew it was a pass because RW came out of the huddle and looked over and signaled something to WR. Wouldn't do that on a run so he did what he did. Had Bill Bellyache followed your strategy and just put some guy out there because all that matters is offense he d have one less Lombardi today and Pete one more. And as far as Atlanta goes, regardless of it Brian had run of not, if they could have gotten one stop, they win. Again, why does it have to be one of the other? Best TEAM wins. In 2017, the Eagles had the 4th best defense in both yards per game and fewest points per game btw. NE was 5th in fewest points per game given up. But they do it all with offense, right? The NE/SEA Super Bowl had 52 total points. NE/ATL 62. NE/PHI 74. No one is saying D is meaningless, just secondary by a LOT. Your usage of NE for your argument is proof, they’ve been working around getting torched on D for at least 10 years. 4 games against the jets and Bills might make there overall numbers look better, but most people know they’ve been Swiss cheese on D for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said: Funny you bring this up after the #1 and #2 defense's both lost today. All defenses played well this week. As Alpha said above too many people read it as an either/or thing. Your D has to be there in the playoffs. And your O. And as the Bears saw your special teams. i said above defenses were the best units for all 4 teams this weekend, but when they had to get a stop a couple didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgg716 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 It should also be noted that 8 teams remain in these playoffs. 7 have offensive head coaches and 7 are offense driven while lacking on D to varying degrees. This is not a fluke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 1/5/2019 at 11:29 PM, Jrb1979 said: What I saw was the team with the pocket passer looked the best of all three. Mobile QBs aren't long for this league. I expect Dallas to lose to either the Rams or the Saints. Why does it seem so many Bills fans yearn for the days of defense? It's weird! Folks seem to forget that the best days this franchise has ever seen were a byproduct of having a dynamic, avant-garde passing offense known for putting up yards and points! Maybe it's that a lot of posters literally don't remember those years because they are too young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 18 hours ago, Magox said: A good QB, physical trenches on both sides of the ball and elite level D is the formula for this team. We just need to get more physical in the trenches and we will be there. Wity that said Indy looks legit I.E., make every unit on the team outstanding! LOL I guess that can work...if you eliminate the cap. "Trenches" and "win the line of scrimmage" and "defense wins championships" are trite, old fashioned, and now out of date fanisms. They don't matter if you can throw the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts