Where would we be if we still had Cogs and Wood?

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, JimKellyTryouts said:

Thing is, Eric left before the draft and Incognito also had his issues before that time. We knew we needed to upgrade the position but Teller was the highest we invested into the picks we had left (fewer due to trading up) 

Facts are not feelings.

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

I recognize that his play was falling off, especially when compared to 2015 when it was at an all-star level. That's understood. What is also understood was that this veteran player who was at the end of his career was not in this rebuilding team's future. The veteran even knew that.What was also evident was that this diminished player was still arguably our best blocker. The organization had the ability to absorb his contract without stressing the cap or handcuffing it from making other transactions.

 

The Incognito decision was a short term decision that hurt an already problematic O-line. Wouldn't it have made more sense to keep him for this year and then move on? There may be more to this issue but on the surface it didn't seem to be a prudent decision when considering how bad our line was without him. 

I dont agree with the pay cut being a slight but he took it and was happy to be playing here.  So they appearantly wernt too far off base.  He changed his mind and thats on him.  He could have said no.

Edited December 25, 2018 by formerlyofCtown

[The Red King]

4 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I dont agree with the pay cut being a slight but he took it and was happy to be playing here.  So they appearantly wernt too far off base.  He changed his mind and thats on him.  He could have said no.

 

Bimgo.  Had he declined, I would have supported him.  Nobody held a gun to his head or took his loved ones hostage.  He said yes, signed, then went berserk.

[formerlyofCtown]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I hated/hate the Star signing so that tends to shape my opinion on the 2018 off season. Not sure who was available at OL other than Bodine(who may actually be serviceable at C) and Funkhouser(who's trash.) Probably could have allocated the Star resources better(much better). We'll see what happens this offseason. I'm not willing to give these guys 5 years. 3 years is plenty to figure it out.

We did get a pick for Newhouse.

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

We did get a pick for Newhouse.

I'm glad we got a pick for Funkhouser. Score one for Beane. I'd prefer to see us winning the war and not these small skirmishes though.

[hondo in seattle]

Say whatever you want about JA's potential, our QB play would not have been good this year even with Woods and Cogs.  It would be interesting to see what our passer rating or QBR is when our QBs are not under pressure.  I doubt it would compare well with the rest of the league.

 

Nonetheless, I think if both Woods and Cogs played another year, our offense would have be much better - not great but reasonably competent.   Defenses don't respect our running attack.  They don't respect our passing attack.  They control the line of scrimmage.  In other words,  opposing defenses dictate to us instead of the other way around. 

 

Our OL problem is worse than our WR problem.  Young QBs like Nate and Josh are even more susceptible to pressure than vets.  And while all RBs need holes to run through, a scatbook like Shady needs space to do his best work.  

5 hours ago, Peter said:

 

Who thought it was a great idea to initiate a pay cut with one of our few all pro players?

 

 

 

His agent agreed to the restructured contract.  Why would Beane be wary when Incognito's agent agreed?

 

Cogs' behavior at the time was so back-and-forth and bizarre, I can't blame the FO.  

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, JimKellyTryouts said:

Thing is, Eric left before the draft and Incognito also had his issues before that time. We knew we needed to upgrade the position but Teller was the highest we invested into the picks we had left (fewer due to trading up) 

Because they found there QB of the future on O and then on D.

10 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Say whatever you want about JA's potential, our QB play would not have been good this year even with Woods and Cogs.  It would be interesting to see what our passer rating or QBR is when our QBs are not under pressure.  I doubt it would compare well with the rest of the league.

 

Nonetheless, I think if both Woods and Cogs played another year, our offense would have be much better - not great but reasonably competent.   Defenses don't respect our running attack.  They don't respect our passing attack.  They control the line of scrimmage.  In other words,  opposing defenses dictate to us instead of the other way around. 

 

Our OL problem is worse than our WR problem.  Young QBs like Nate and Josh are even more susceptible to pressure than vets.  And while all RBs need holes to run through, a scatbook like Shady needs space to do his best work.  

 

His agent agreed to the restructured contract.  Why would Beane be wary when Incognito's agent agreed?

 

Cogs' behavior at the time was so back-and-forth and bizarre, I can't blame the FO.  

Of coarse it wouldnt compare well hes a rookie.  But he made some great plays this year while under pressure so why dont you look it up and let us know.  Although our Oline is probably among the worst in the league so hevwas almost always under pressure.

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

No. I'll take to the internet and offer my unsolicited opinion that it's time for a change. You would likely be grasping at straws for the latest excuse du jour. That's kind of the point of this very message board; an opportunity for fans to voice views that mean virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

My hope is that we're talking about results this time next year and not excuses OR firings.

I dont think those are straws.  I tend to think they are obvious and cant see how more people dont see it.

[formerlyofCtown]

24 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm glad we got a pick for Funkhouser. Score one for Beane. I'd prefer to see us winning the war and not these small skirmishes though.

Hes not going to be correct every time but at least he got something out of it

[John from Riverside]

I think we are at 8 games won

 

beibg able to run the ball would have really helped this year

[Heitz]

12 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

For all the complainers that want McBeane gone, have you thought about where we would be if we still had our two Pro-Bowl Olineman.  

 

One would likely be on IR and potentially unable to ever walk, the other advocating cutting off someone on the team's head for research.

 

Are we really STILL going here?

[Augie]

12 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Well..if this theory is true then there’s no reason to focus on anything other than the OLine in 2019. The rest of the many, many offensive problems (WR, TE, RB, and QB) were all self inflicted wounds by this Front Office and Coaching staff.

 

That makes it sound like neglect, when I feel it’s more insufficient resources. Two very different things. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

I'd say the difference is 2-3 games. My guess is that we'd be in the same position we were in last year 8-7 playing Miami, but this year 10-6 gets you in.  

[formerlyofCtown]

38 minutes ago, Heitz said:

 

One would likely be on IR and potentially unable to ever walk, the other advocating cutting off someone on the team's head for research.

 

Are we really STILL going here?

You dont get the point.  I guess I should have said in good health for those who are either trolls or not as gifted at figuring things out as others.  I hope that was a non offensive way of putting it I wouldnt want someone to feel I was putting them down.  Im not calling you an idiot or anything you just need to think about what the point that is being made may be.  Im starting to think this sight needs a crayon app.

[DRA3196]

12 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Not true at all. They could have gone after Andrew Norwell instead of paying the money they did for Star and/or Trent Murphy. 

You might want to look at the dates. the same day the Bills restructure Ritchie's contract for his final year, Norwell signs with the Jaguars for Huge Money. Ritchie didn't ask for his release from Buffalo until April 15th. At the time Buffalo signed Star and Murphy, which was in March, there was no need to sign a guard. They thought they had Ritchie for 1 more year.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, DRA3196 said:

You might want to look at the dates. the same day the Bills restructure Ritchie's contract for his final year, Norwell signs with the Jaguars for Huge Money. Ritchie didn't ask for his release from Buffalo until April 15th. At the time Buffalo signed Star and Murphy, which was in March, there was no need to sign a guard. They thought they had Ritchie for 1 more year.

 

Good point, but the name is Richie.  

[BlueandRed]

1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said:

You dont get the point.  I guess I should have said in good health for those who are either trolls or not as gifted at figuring things out as others.  I hope that was a non offensive way of putting it I wouldnt want someone to feel I was putting them down.  Im not calling you an idiot or anything you just need to think about what the point that is being made may be.  Im starting to think this sight needs a crayon app.

?  Dude, step away from the keyboard and calm down. Control yourself. This is not a good look. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, BlueandRed said:

?  Dude, step away from the keyboard and calm down. Control yourself. This is not a good look. 

 

I'm very calm. 

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, BlueandRed said:

?  Dude, step away from the keyboard and calm down. Control yourself. This is not a good look. 

I did.?

[row_33]

If only we could have back players for whom it was guaranteed they would have played 300 times better than they ever showed on the field...

 

 

[oldmanfan]

We'd have been better.  Obviously.  Their loss shows the dearth of true offensive line talent in the league.  And lack of good coaching.  Guys from college and one read shotgun offenses don't learn the nuances of run blocking especially.  

 

We have a promising young QB that needs a run game and better pass protection.  I hope they take some cap $$ and use it on O linemen in free agency.  Maybe Paradis to solidify the interior at C and to tutor younger guys.  Another G at least, maybe a RT.  Have to trust their pro scouts to find guys ready to step up.  Or if they see a stud O linemen when they pick in round one, get him.

 

Also they need to really think about Castillo.  I assume Daboll has told him what blocking schemes and fits he needs for his offense.  Can Castillo teach that?   I'm not confident.

[ganesh]

22 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

I think the running game and Allen would have been better and of course Allen would have been protected a little better,but not better enough to win no more than maybe 3 more games IMO. I think they still would have had problems with the WRs. We will never know.

Agree.  The biggest loss for this team without those two linemen was the Run game.  If we had a better run game and put the game on Shady's shoulders, may be Allen develops a little more better.

[TigerJ]

I think we might have had a few more wins.  I don't think we would have made the playoffs

[Freddie's Dead]

The number of threads with the "bring back Richie" theme is disheartening on so many levels.  How can I say this?  RICHIE WENT ***** NUTS!!!  HE WOULD BE COMPLETELY ***** USELESS ON THE BILLS!!!  STOP WITH THE WHERE THE ***** WOULD WE BE IF THE BILLS HADN'T CUT/LET GO/LOWBALLED/*****/SCREWED, ETC. RICHIE!!!  It was his CHOICE to leave, shortly after which he went ***** NUTS!!!  

 

There, I feel better.

[formerlyofCtown]

24 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

The number of threads with the "bring back Richie" theme is disheartening on so many levels.  How can I say this?  RICHIE WENT ***** NUTS!!!  HE WOULD BE COMPLETELY ***** USELESS ON THE BILLS!!!  STOP WITH THE WHERE THE ***** WOULD WE BE IF THE BILLS HADN'T CUT/LET GO/LOWBALLED/*****/SCREWED, ETC. RICHIE!!!  It was his CHOICE to leave, shortly after which he went ***** NUTS!!!  

 

There, I feel better.

Good for you It is necessary once in a while.  As to what you said, this isnt a bring back Richie thread.  You are really missing the point.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Good for you It is necessary once in a while.  As to what you said, this isnt a bring back Richie thread.  You are really missing the point.

 

Let me be more direct.  The Bills would be nowhere because Wood would likely be seriously injured and Richie couldn't play because of his mental issues.  

[Punching Bag]

On 12/25/2018 at 11:17 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

This is false.  I mean every word of this is false.  It’s amazing to me this mythological false narrative fans have with a “fuzzy” memory to say the least.  I see it repeated around here so much and it literally makes no sense.

 

 

Why are you surprised?

 

dreck

Yiddish/German word for crap, garbage, trash, etc. The kind of sh!t that you don't want to step in, and if you do, you'll be walking funny for the next two blocks in an attempt to scrape it off your shoe.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

On 12/25/2018 at 7:40 AM, formerlyofCtown said:

For all the complainers that want McBeane gone, have you thought about where we would be if we still had our two Pro-Bowl Olineman.  

 

Maybe Im wrong but I think with those two Allen doesnt get injured in the Texans game.  So at the least he would have won that game I believe and would have gotten more on field experience.

 

I also believe our run game would have been much better.

 

Best case senerio we may have actually had a shot at the division title.

 

The only down side may have been we may not have gotten Anderson and Barkley.  There is no way to tell how much hes learned from them.  Also I believe we have a long term viable backup in Barkley.

 

They had no way of knowing they would lose those two Oline and to ask them to replace those guys in a single off season is obserd.  Its amazing that there are some that cant put this season in perspective.  

 

We have had coach after coach that had their players underachieving and now we have one that I believe gets his team to overachieve and people want to get rid of him.  Im very excited about this teams potential goin forward as they seem to actually develope talent and motivate players.  I do believe it would have been easier to see it with Cogs and Wood still on the line.

 

The reason is because these are trash excuses. These things happen in the NFL. Guys retire. Guys who have previously been problematic become problematic again. Nobody's going to feel sorry for us or give us extra wins or points or players because this happens. Adjustments have to be made.

 

I apologize if this is going to be a spoiler alert for some of you...but something unexpected will happen this offseason. Not everything will go as planned. There will also be injuries next season. The Bills also knew about Eric Wood in January. This excuse that's put out there that they were "blindsided" is so laughable. They basically had the entire offseason to account for and plan for a replacement. Incognito was going on 35 years old, even if he was coming back for this season, that's not a guy for a rebuilding team that can be counted on as being part of the future. I would have basically planned as if he didn't even exist because we needed a replacement anyway. 

 

And if it's absurd to expect them to bring in 2 viable o-linemen in one offseason...how are we expected to get at least 3 legitimate starters and solid depth in this one? It's a little scary that they've already had 2 offseasons and the o-line is in complete shambles. We have one adequate starter in Dawkins and they're hoping Teller can be one, but we don't know that yet. 

 

 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

If Cordy and Eric were healthy along with a focused Richie, we would've at least had a OL capable of protecting Josh better and squeezing a few more yards out of Shady. Right now Dawkins is our best olineman and that's not saying much. OL/WR will have to be aggressively addressed this offseason.

[C.Biscuit97]

What would Arizoma’s Record be if they didn’t have 7 OL on IR?  ?

 

and how how do we know if RI was on the team, he won’t have gone crazy and caused major problems?

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Let me be more direct.  The Bills would be nowhere because Wood would likely be seriously injured and Richie couldn't play because of his mental issues.  

Well duh.  They arent here because of those things so let me be more direct since you dont realise that it is infered.

What would the season have been like if Wood didnt have a neck injury and Incognito didnt lose it?  There do you understand now?

And if you have a problem with the idea of it then get off my thread.

[Misterbluesky]

I think we would be 8-7 right now.

[formerlyofCtown]

36 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What would Arizoma’s Record be if they didn’t have 7 OL on IR?  ?

 

and how how do we know if RI was on the team, he won’t have gone crazy and caused major problems?

May have been better and you could be right.  But at the same time I could say that we would make the SB at 18-0.  That wouldnt be very probable though.  Much like it would be more likely that our offense would be much better.

 

You guys really dont like it when someone brings up a valid point that craps all over your crusade.

[C.Biscuit97]

13 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

May have been better and you could be right.  But at the same time I could say that we would make the SB at 18-0.  That wouldnt be very probable though.  Much like it would be more likely that our offense would be much better.

 

You guys really dont like it when someone brings up a valid point that craps all over your crusade.

What crusade?  I’d argue if we had a qb who simply didn’t make any mistakes, we could have a better record.  

 

I think we got all we could get out of RI.  This was his longest period of non “crazy.” Dude is a ticking time bomb and he exploded. Also given his age, he could have started his decline.  

 

If your team is that affected by an old G and C, your team isn’t that good. 

20 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Well duh.  They arent here because of those things so let me be more direct since you dont realise that it is infered.

What would the season have been like if Wood didnt have a neck injury and Incognito didnt lose it?  There do you understand now?

And if you have a problem with the idea of it then get off my thread.

RI always loses it and Wood struggled with injuries through his career.  

 

How about this one: what would the Bilal record be if they just selected JuJu instead of Jones and Mahomes instead of White? ????

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Well duh.  They arent here because of those things so let me be more direct since you dont realise that it is infered.

What would the season have been like if Wood didnt have a neck injury and Incognito didnt lose it?  There do you understand now?

And if you have a problem with the idea of it then get off my thread.

 

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum in myriad other threads, and it has grown tiresome.  Peace out.

[Nextmanup]

On 12/25/2018 at 3:20 PM, SoCal Deek said:

Yikes! There are a ton of sob stories on here. The Bills has virtually ZERO injuries on either side of the line of scrimmage throughout the entire season. There are teams around the league having to make personnel decisions on a weekly basis. Whereas the Bills saw a starting CB RETIRE during a game, then traded away their #1 WR, and cut their opening day QB. Yea....I’m sure this mess was due to an old Offensive Guard retiring!  Sheeesh

Excuse makers are going to make excuses.

 

It's what they do.

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What crusade?  I’d argue if we had a qb who simply didn’t make any mistakes, we could have a better record.  

 

I think we got all we could get out of RI.  This was his longest period of non “crazy.” Dude is a ticking time bomb and he exploded. Also given his age, he could have started his decline.  

 

If your team is that affected by an old G and C, your team isn’t that good. 

RI always loses it and Wood struggled with injuries through his career.  

 

How about this one: what would the Bilal record be if they just selected JuJu instead of Jones and Mahomes instead of White? ????

It would be much better.  Why would I argue with that its a valid point.  We are where we are at and I dont fault McBeane for the way things have turned out.  I believe he has made some good choices and we are headed in the right direction.  He got blind sided with the Oline situation.  That is the reality of it and he couldnt get guys to come here with TT as the QB.

7 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum in myriad other threads, and it has grown tiresome.  Peace out.

Buy.  Get off my lawn.

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said:

It would be much better.  Why would I argue with that its a valid point.  We are where we are at and I dont fault McBeane for the way things have turned out.  I believe he has made some good choices and we are headed in the right direction.  He got blind sided with the Oline situation.  That is the reality of it and he couldnt get guys to come here with TT as the QB.

Buy.  Get off my lawn.

 

I'm selling.