Josh Allen strategy

[billvernsays]

I’m not certain but I’m starting to think that they (McBeane) have a good strategy in place for Allen. 

 

I belive it was Peyton Manning who said the most important thing for his development in the NFL was his NFL 1st coach and OC told him in so many words,

 

“Peyton, this year is all about you. We don’t expect to be very good so don’t worry about throwing interceptions this 1st year. The most important thing for us is that you come out of year one knowing what you can and can’t do down the field. We don’t care about you checking the ball down necessarily even if it’s the only option you have available. We’d rather you attempt to convert the 3rd and long and either we’ll convert or you’ll learn.”

 

Obviously I don’t have insider information but it seems that is the same approach JA is taking this year. I watched last Sunday’s game again last night and the reason I feel this way was a play that stood out like a sore thumb.

 

I believe we were halfway through the 2nd quarter and it was 3rd and 13 or so on our 37. JA quickly went through his reads and got the ball out to Kelvin Benjamin 9 years a down the field. KB caught  it ( to my surprise) and got an additional yard or two. JA looked disappointed in himself that he even attempted a pass that wasn’t beyond the marker.  I thought to myself how many times over the past 2 decades have I been screaming at my TV because on a critical 3rd and long our QB were more interested in keeping their completion % above 60% than trying to win the game. This kid’s a gamer and I’m so pumped to see how he continues to progress. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, billvernsays said:

I’m not certain but I’m starting to think that they (McBeane) have a good strategy in place for Allen. 

 

I belive it was Peyton Manning who said the most important thing for his development in the NFL was his NFL 1st coach and OC told him in so many words,

 

“Peyton, this year is all about you. We don’t expect to be very good so don’t worry about throwing interceptions this 1st year. The most important thing for us is that you come out of year one knowing what you can and can’t do down the field. We don’t care about you checking the ball down necessarily even if it’s the only option you have available. We’d rather you attempt to convert the 3rd and long and either we’ll convert or you’ll learn.”

 

Obviously I don’t have insider information but it seems that is the same approach JA is taking this year. I watched last Sunday’s game again last night and the reason I feel this way was a play that stood out like a sore thumb.

 

I believe we were halfway through the 2nd quarter and it was 3rd and 13 or so on our 37. JA quickly went through his reads and got the ball out to Kelvin Benjamin 9 years a down the field. KB caught  it ( to my surprise) and got an additional yard or two. JA looked disappointed in himself that he even attempted a pass that wasn’t beyond the marker.  I thought to myself how many times over the past 2 decades have I been screaming at my TV because on a critical 3rd and long our QB were more interested in keeping their completion % above 60% than trying to win the game. This kid’s a gamer and I’m so pumped to see how he continues to progress. 

 

There's that, but then there's also the point that one might expect KB (any 'gamer' type WR or TE) to fight for 4 YAC.  Sometimes you need to take what the D gives you and trust your teammates.

 

There was also a play where Allen kept it and ran for 17 yds.  At the point where he crossed the LOS on the left side of the hashes, Allen had Shady wide open 14 yds down field and signalling for the ball.  Allen needs to trust himself to get it to his teammates when they're wide open, and trust his teammate (Shady) to be able to get at least as many yards.

 

As far as the INTs though, you may be on to something.  Romo said something similar when he was announcing the Vikes game.  Allen threw an INT and he said something to the effect of "I'm OK with that.  He'll learn something from that.  His coach ought to tell him, I want you to throw two INTS today" which I thought was nuts, but I think Romo's point was take your shots, don't second-guess yourself too much at this point, we expect you to make mistakes. 

 

Up to a point, it's better to take some shots and make mistakes than get all knotted up and fail to pull the trigger.

[billvernsays]

I agree. I just love the reaction JA had that he left it up to KB or someone other than himself and he was disappointed in the result. It’s a small thing I noticed that probably doesn’t mean much but I appreciated it

[Lothar]

That may be the plan for Josh but I'm not sure if Peyton followed that process in his rookie year from the games I saw. In early games against Buffalo, he threw it a lot but I remember Bruce being frustrated because Manning would get rid of the ball a lot quicker than other quarterbacks. I'm not sure he was a long ball thrower at the time, especially against the Bills.

[billvernsays]

3 minutes ago, Lothar said:

That may be the plan for Josh but I'm not sure if Peyton followed that process in his rookie year from the games I saw. In early games against Buffalo, he threw it a lot but I remember Bruce being frustrated because Manning would get rid of the ball a lot quicker than other quarterbacks. I'm not sure he was a long ball thrower at the time, especially against the Bills.

He threw a ton of Ints his rookie year. Perhaps the Colts tweaked their game plan when they were going up against players like Bruce Smith so they didn’t risk getting their rookie franchise QB hurt. 

Im not speculating about what the game plan was for PM, that’s from Peyton’s own words. Obviously it worked out for him.

 

I’m not sure we are doing the same thing as JA didn’t check down much in college either. But I’m putting it out there for the people who still have concerns about his accuracy to point out that he’s not exactly attempting many “easy throws” good or bad it’s just the reality of the situation. This is evident by the fact that in the past 2 weeks Josh Allen has 2 of the 4 highest Air Yards per attempt for any game since 2016. 

 

Josh Allen vs Jax (2018) - 18.3

Big Ben vs Indy (2016) - 16.9 

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Pats (2016) - 16.1 

Josh Allen vs Miami (2018) - 15.9

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

43 minutes ago, billvernsays said:

I’m not certain but I’m starting to think that they (McBeane) have a good strategy in place for Allen. 

 

I belive it was Peyton Manning who said the most important thing for his development in the NFL was his NFL 1st coach and OC told him in so many words,

 

“Peyton, this year is all about you. We don’t expect to be very good so don’t worry about throwing interceptions this 1st year. The most important thing for us is that you come out of year one knowing what you can and can’t do down the field. We don’t care about you checking the ball down necessarily even if it’s the only option you have available. We’d rather you attempt to convert the 3rd and long and either we’ll convert or you’ll learn.”

 

Obviously I don’t have insider information but it seems that is the same approach JA is taking this year. I watched last Sunday’s game again last night and the reason I feel this way was a play that stood out like a sore thumb.

 

I believe we were halfway through the 2nd quarter and it was 3rd and 13 or so on our 37. JA quickly went through his reads and got the ball out to Kelvin Benjamin 9 years a down the field. KB caught  it ( to my surprise) and got an additional yard or two. JA looked disappointed in himself that he even attempted a pass that wasn’t beyond the marker.  I thought to myself how many times over the past 2 decades have I been screaming at my TV because on a critical 3rd and long our QB were more interested in keeping their completion % above 60% than trying to win the game. This kid’s a gamer and I’m so pumped to see how he continues to progress. 

 

another fine example of your point that jumped out during the game:

 

3rd Quarter ~ 6 mins left. Within a score (5  pts I believe). 

 

3rd and 12 from their own 2.  

 

How many times in the last two decades, in that situation, do the bills hand off or throw underneath to “get the punter more room.” 100%?

 

 

Betting there is not one time in that situation in Q3 within a score or even 2, backed up that far, they throw a pass past the first down marker from their own EZ. I’m not even sure Brees Brady or Rodgers are given that play to run. 

 

What happened in Miami?  JA fires a 22 yard sideline laser to Zay for a first down. Incidentally great route, sideline throw where only Zay catches on in bounds and protection held up fairly well. 

 

[hondo in seattle]

31 minutes ago, billvernsays said:

He threw a ton of Ints his rookie year. Perhaps the Colts tweaked their game plan when they were going up against players like Bruce Smith so they didn’t risk getting their rookie franchise QB hurt. 

Im not speculating about what the game plan was for PM, that’s from Peyton’s own words. Obviously it worked out for him.

 

I’m not sure we are doing the same thing as JA didn’t check down much in college either. But I’m putting it out there for the people who still have concerns about his accuracy to point out that he’s not exactly attempting many “easy throws” good or bad it’s just the reality of the situation. This is evident by the fact that in the past 2 weeks Josh Allen has 2 of the 4 highest Air Yards per attempt for any game since 2016. 

 

Josh Allen vs Jax (2018) - 18.3

Big Ben vs Indy (2016) - 16.9 

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Pats (2016) - 16.1 

Josh Allen vs Miami (2018) - 15.9

That’s an interesting - and refreshing - stat.

[Juice_32]

50 minutes ago, billvernsays said:

I’m not certain but I’m starting to think that they (McBeane) have a good strategy in place for Allen. 

 

I belive it was Peyton Manning who said the most important thing for his development in the NFL was his NFL 1st coach and OC told him in so many words,

 

“Peyton, this year is all about you. We don’t expect to be very good so don’t worry about throwing interceptions this 1st year. The most important thing for us is that you come out of year one knowing what you can and can’t do down the field. We don’t care about you checking the ball down necessarily even if it’s the only option you have available. We’d rather you attempt to convert the 3rd and long and either we’ll convert or you’ll learn.”

 

Obviously I don’t have insider information but it seems that is the same approach JA is taking this year. I watched last Sunday’s game again last night and the reason I feel this way was a play that stood out like a sore thumb.

 

I believe we were halfway through the 2nd quarter and it was 3rd and 13 or so on our 37. JA quickly went through his reads and got the ball out to Kelvin Benjamin 9 years a down the field. KB caught  it ( to my surprise) and got an additional yard or two. JA looked disappointed in himself that he even attempted a pass that wasn’t beyond the marker.  I thought to myself how many times over the past 2 decades have I been screaming at my TV because on a critical 3rd and long our QB were more interested in keeping their completion % above 60% than trying to win the game. This kid’s a gamer and I’m so pumped to see how he continues to progress. 

 

I'm not sure if this is the specific strategy they've taken with him or not, but he sure as heck doesn't throw to the check down, almost ever.

 

It is certainly a contributing factor to his completion % and it's damn fun to watch.

[RoyBatty is alive]

52 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's that, but then there's also the point that one might expect KB (any 'gamer' type WR or TE) to fight for 4 YAC.  Sometimes you need to take what the D gives you and trust your teammates.

 

There was also a play where Allen kept it and ran for 17 yds.  At the point where he crossed the LOS on the left side of the hashes, Allen had Shady wide open 14 yds down field and signalling for the ball.  Allen needs to trust himself to get it to his teammates when they're wide open, and trust his teammate (Shady) to be able to get at least as many yards.

 

As far as the INTs though, you may be on to something.  Romo said something similar when he was announcing the Vikes game.  Allen threw an INT and he said something to the effect of "I'm OK with that.  He'll learn something from that.  His coach ought to tell him, I want you to throw two INTS today" which I thought was nuts, but I think Romo's point was take your shots, don't second-guess yourself too much at this point, we expect you to make mistakes. 

 

Up to a point, it's better to take some shots and make mistakes than get all knotted up and fail to pull the trigger.

 

 

You know who needed this advice real real bad...Tyrod Taylor.  I think it is far to late for that old dog to learn any new tricks.

[CincyBillsFan]

Like others I've noticed a completely different vibe from Allen on the passing plays.  Pre-injury he showed signs of this explosiveness but over the course of a game it was hit or miss.  Now, every time he drops back to pass I get the sense that something good could happen. 

 

Weather permitting I fully expect the coaches to turn Allen lose against the Jets in the same way they did in the 2nd half against the fish.  While this may lead to a fumble or pick, the Bills defense should be up to the challenge of holding the Jets to 3 on any mistakes.

 

Bottom line is I agree with the author of this thread - there's been a change in how the Bills are progressing Allen.  I like it!  And what would have been an otherwise boring conclusion to a bad season has morphed into a situation where we're in for a lot of entertainment over the next 4 weeks.  What more could you ask for. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by CincyBillsFan

[BringBackFlutie]

8 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

You know who needed this advice real real bad...Tyrod Taylor.  I think it is far to late for that old dog to learn any new tricks.

 

This reminds me of Fitz and Gailey.  Fitz always threw a lot of picks because he had a weak arm.  BUT, his willingness to get the ball downfield, and trust his reads and his receivers is what's gotten him starting gig after starting gig, and it didn't happen that way until Buffalo.  I remember hearing Gailey say that all he ever told Fitz was, "don't stop taking shots because you throw a few INTs.  Trust what you see and release the ball."  I always thought Tyrod would've benefited from a QB coach like Gailey.

Edited December 6, 2018 by BringBackFlutie

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I'm definitely eating crow right now as I was on the start Barkley until he flops train before going back to Allen. Allen has looked like a completely different QB since coming back from the injury. 

 

In the six games before the injury he was getting sacked on 13% of his drop backs. 21 sacks in 6 games. Had a YPA of 6.0 and was only gaining 4.4 yards per rush.

 

In his last two starts the sack rate has decreased significantly to 3.7%, only 2 sacks in 2 games. His YPA has increased to 7.5 and his rushing has been extremely efficient at 11.8ypr. The only stat that has hovered around the same is completion percentage. But I am fine with that for now.

[PaattMaann]

32 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

another fine example of your point that jumped out during the game:

 

3rd Quarter ~ 6 mins left. Within a score (5  pts I believe). 

 

3rd and 12 from their own 2.  

 

How many times in the last two decades, in that situation, do the bills hand off or throw underneath to “get the punter more room.” 100%?

 

 

Betting there is not one time in that situation in Q3 within a score or even 2, backed up that far, they throw a pass past the first down marker from their own EZ. I’m not even sure Brees Brady or Rodgers are given that play to run. 

 

What happened in Miami?  JA fires a 22 yard sideline laser to Zay for a first down. Incidentally great route, sideline throw where only Zay catches on in bounds and protection held up fairly well. 

 

 

are you talking about the sideline laser to Zay for first down when it was 3rd and long from their own 1 yard line and Allen was in the endzone? He had to roll out to his left because protection was horrible...we could be talking about different plays though because there was a lot of Allen to Jones connections.

[Captain Hindsight]

What I love more than anything with Josh is knowing that the QB is no longer the weak point, but the biggest strength on the field. They are letting him rip it and hes showing he can do it.

 

I hope he just continues to get more confident, because his skill set is incredible 

[BringBackFlutie]

24 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

are you talking about the sideline laser to Zay for first down when it was 3rd and long from their own 1 yard line and Allen was in the endzone? He had to roll out to his left because protection was horrible...we could be talking about different plays though because there was a lot of Allen to Jones connections.

 

Also that was a 35ish yard laser...on the run.  Ridiculous play.

 

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's that, but then there's also the point that one might expect KB (any 'gamer' type WR or TE) to fight for 4 YAC.  Sometimes you need to take what the D gives you and trust your teammates.

 

There was also a play where Allen kept it and ran for 17 yds.  At the point where he crossed the LOS on the left side of the hashes, Allen had Shady wide open 14 yds down field and signalling for the ball.  Allen needs to trust himself to get it to his teammates when they're wide open, and trust his teammate (Shady) to be able to get at least as many yards.

 

As far as the INTs though, you may be on to something.  Romo said something similar when he was announcing the Vikes game.  Allen threw an INT and he said something to the effect of "I'm OK with that.  He'll learn something from that.  His coach ought to tell him, I want you to throw two INTS today" which I thought was nuts, but I think Romo's point was take your shots, don't second-guess yourself too much at this point, we expect you to make mistakes. 

 

Up to a point, it's better to take some shots and make mistakes than get all knotted up and fail to pull the trigger.

 

What I'm seeing a lot with Allen, which is really frustrating, is that a lot of his decent-but-not-perfect throws are not being picked up by his receivers, and a portion of his routine, on the money throws are also being dropped.  That drives down his completion percentage and kills drives, so that he's having to play a bit of hero ball.  Too much of what I'm seeing is the same Josh Allen that I saw at Wyoming, because the team around him in Buffalo seems to be lacking the same type of talent in the same places.  This may contribute to his unwillingness to take the throw to, say, a wide open Shady 15 yards down-field.

 

1 hour ago, billvernsays said:

I’m not certain but I’m starting to think that they (McBeane) have a good strategy in place for Allen. 

 

I belive it was Peyton Manning who said the most important thing for his development in the NFL was his NFL 1st coach and OC told him in so many words,

 

“Peyton, this year is all about you. We don’t expect to be very good so don’t worry about throwing interceptions this 1st year. The most important thing for us is that you come out of year one knowing what you can and can’t do down the field. We don’t care about you checking the ball down necessarily even if it’s the only option you have available. We’d rather you attempt to convert the 3rd and long and either we’ll convert or you’ll learn.”

 

Obviously I don’t have insider information but it seems that is the same approach JA is taking this year. I watched last Sunday’s game again last night and the reason I feel this way was a play that stood out like a sore thumb.

 

I believe we were halfway through the 2nd quarter and it was 3rd and 13 or so on our 37. JA quickly went through his reads and got the ball out to Kelvin Benjamin 9 years a down the field. KB caught  it ( to my surprise) and got an additional yard or two. JA looked disappointed in himself that he even attempted a pass that wasn’t beyond the marker.  I thought to myself how many times over the past 2 decades have I been screaming at my TV because on a critical 3rd and long our QB were more interested in keeping their completion % above 60% than trying to win the game. This kid’s a gamer and I’m so pumped to see how he continues to progress. 

 

Overall, Allen, himself, is really encouraging.  Despite the constant train-wreck occurring around him on most plays, he seems to be improving in choosing his spots to run, and becoming more accurate from the pocket.  He's also showing that he can take what the defense gives him, and throwing a few more high-percentage throws when he HAS TO.  For instance- on the last drive against Miami he threw some shorter out routes and comebacks, which he doesn't generally take.  

 

...But I don't think he takes those throws all game.  I see what you're talking about with Peyton Manning in Josh, as well.  He seems to be taking this time to really learn what's happening downfield, buy some time, and take his shots where he can.  If he can get that down, and then hit a stopping point where we can say, "okay, we don't want to have to save the world on the last drive of every game anymore.  Make sure we hold onto the ball," and start to naturally take a check-down when his clock goes off, that'll be really good.  Of course, there's a lot more to that.  He may already be thinking the latter, but because teams expect him to take those shots downfield, he's finding wide open lanes to run, which, with his speed, is perfectly acceptable, even when he has a few short routes open.  So, going back to the Shady situation- maybe he didn't trust Shady because of my second paragraph, or he does trust Shady, but sees so much green ahead of him, he'd rather be guaranteed the first down and have an extra blocker in Shady, than waste all of the running room he has on a pass, which is always riskier than a run.

Edited December 6, 2018 by BringBackFlutie

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, billvernsays said:

I’m not certain but I’m starting to think that they (McBeane) have a good strategy in place for Allen. 

 

I belive it was Peyton Manning who said the most important thing for his development in the NFL was his NFL 1st coach and OC told him in so many words,

 

“Peyton, this year is all about you. We don’t expect to be very good so don’t worry about throwing interceptions this 1st year. The most important thing for us is that you come out of year one knowing what you can and can’t do down the field. We don’t care about you checking the ball down necessarily even if it’s the only option you have available. We’d rather you attempt to convert the 3rd and long and either we’ll convert or you’ll learn.”

 

Obviously I don’t have insider information but it seems that is the same approach JA is taking this year. I watched last Sunday’s game again last night and the reason I feel this way was a play that stood out like a sore thumb.

 

I believe we were halfway through the 2nd quarter and it was 3rd and 13 or so on our 37. JA quickly went through his reads and got the ball out to Kelvin Benjamin 9 years a down the field. KB caught  it ( to my surprise) and got an additional yard or two. JA looked disappointed in himself that he even attempted a pass that wasn’t beyond the marker.  I thought to myself how many times over the past 2 decades have I been screaming at my TV because on a critical 3rd and long our QB were more interested in keeping their completion % above 60% than trying to win the game. This kid’s a gamer and I’m so pumped to see how he continues to progress. 

A lot of people talk about not throwing after the sticks and seem to think it’s only our crappy QBs. Even Brady doesn’t always throw past the sticks. He throws to Edelman 4 yards short and Edelman picks up 10 extra yards. We never scheme or never have the talent for our WR to get YAC and that’s the actual problem. 

 

I know that’s not what your post is about but I wanted to comment on that anyways. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Scott7975

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said:

What I'm seeing a lot with Allen, which is really frustrating, is that a lot of his decent-but-not-perfect throws are not being picked up by his receivers, and a portion of his routine, on the money throws are also being dropped.  That drives down his completion percentage and kills drives, so that he's having to play a bit of hero ball.  Too much of what I'm seeing is the same Josh Allen that I saw at Wyoming, because the team around him in Buffalo seems to be lacking the same type of talent in the same places.  This may contribute to his unwillingness to take the throw to, say, a wide open Shady 15 yards down-field.

 

I agree with you completely here.  It really leaps out to me watching some other, feted QB how their throws are so often not perfect - require the one-handed grab or the stretch-double-toe-tap or the reach-down - and yet they have the talent around them to haul those in.

 

So I agree, Josh being a competitor, is being more or less forced into the hero-ball mindset by the lack of talent around him.

 

I do think part of his hesitation to throw to Shady is that he knows those aren't money throws for him right now - that if he's throwing off platform on the run, the accuracy isn't necessarily there.  Better than it was, but not there yet.

 

 

[billvernsays]

15 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

A lot of people talk about not throwing after the sticks and seem to think it’s only our crappy QBs. Even Brady doesn’t always throw past the sticks. He throws to Edelman 4 yards short and Edelman picks up 10 extra yards. We never scheme or never have the talent for our WR to get YAC and that’s the actual problem. 

 

I know that’s not what your post is about but I wanted to comment on that anyways. 

I understand. Brady is an established QB 

 

My point is that perhaps the coaches are telling him to try to figure out what he’s capable of and not capable of and NOT trying to take the easy passes which may even be the highest probably of a successful play because his development is more important than the outcome of the play/game.

 

When you put that in contrast with Brady who’s simply trying to get the best possible outcome for every play, he’s established he doesn’t need to take risks until he needs to when the games on the line he will. Ideally that’s where we want to be. But we aren’t exactly in the same position as the Pats currently. 

 

Most rookie QBs are afraid to throw the ball down the field and because of this they don’t attempt the passes, in turn they never learn, develop, and grow. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by billvernsays
Typo

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

A lot of people talk about not throwing after the sticks and seem to think it’s only our crappy QBs. Even Brady doesn’t always throw past the sticks. He throws to Edelman 4 yards short and Edelman picks up 10 extra yards. We never scheme or never have the talent for our WR to get YAC and that’s the actual problem. 

 

I know that’s not what your post is about but I wanted to comment on that anyways. 

 

This ties into a point I was making about Allen needing to trust his teammates - which requires that he be ABLE to trust his teammates to fight for those 4 YAC, which KB showed over and over again he wouldn't. 

 

In fact, I'll go further on Brady:  Brady has made a successful career out of making those 4-5 yd tosses that a series of WR and TE have then turned into 10-15 yd gains.  I haven't looked this season, but in previous seasons for all the top QB he's had some of the lowest % of air yards and the highest % of YAC.

[billsredneck1]

1 hour ago, Juice_32 said:

 

I'm not sure if this is the specific strategy they've taken with him or not, but he sure as heck doesn't throw to the check down, almost ever.

 

It is certainly a contributing factor to his completion % and it's damn fun to watch.

i sure hope he learns how quick because that's a 3rd of the qb game.  the need to move the chains  makes it a must. i like that he doesn't do it on 3rd and longs, but when it's there for the taking, gotta do it.  they are talking about this now on the radio. it was said that brady uses these a lot and basically it becomes an extension to the run game....short throws and yac.

 

in miami  during the 1st half,  it seemed like on every series he had someone open at the top of the screen, or his right.  either ivory or zay standing there doing jumping jacks.

allen never seemed to even move his eyes in that direction, but a lot of the time it sure looked like easy 10+ yds. to be had.

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I'm definitely eating crow right now as I was on the start Barkley until he flops train before going back to Allen. Allen has looked like a completely different QB since coming back from the injury. 

 

In the six games before the injury he was getting sacked on 13% of his drop backs. 21 sacks in 6 games. Had a YPA of 6.0 and was only gaining 4.4 yards per rush.

 

In his last two starts the sack rate has decreased significantly to 3.7%, only 2 sacks in 2 games. His YPA has increased to 7.5 and his rushing has been extremely efficient at 11.8ypr. The only stat that has hovered around the same is completion percentage. But I am fine with that for now.

i was on the barkley train too.  glad that i was wrong and now i'm excited to see him over the next4.....i'm also excited kb won't be out there.

[ctk232]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's that, but then there's also the point that one might expect KB (any 'gamer' type WR or TE) to fight for 4 YAC.  Sometimes you need to take what the D gives you and trust your teammates.

 

There was also a play where Allen kept it and ran for 17 yds.  At the point where he crossed the LOS on the left side of the hashes, Allen had Shady wide open 14 yds down field and signalling for the ball.  Allen needs to trust himself to get it to his teammates when they're wide open, and trust his teammate (Shady) to be able to get at least as many yards.

 

As far as the INTs though, you may be on to something.  Romo said something similar when he was announcing the Vikes game.  Allen threw an INT and he said something to the effect of "I'm OK with that.  He'll learn something from that.  His coach ought to tell him, I want you to throw two INTS today" which I thought was nuts, but I think Romo's point was take your shots, don't second-guess yourself too much at this point, we expect you to make mistakes. 

 

Up to a point, it's better to take some shots and make mistakes than get all knotted up and fail to pull the trigger.

^This. Romo's comment as well, but especially that piece where Allen equally needs to learn to trust himself to get the ball to his playmakers, and that he doesn't have to tuck it and run on every 3rd down. I think his present ability to run creates tremendous scheming issues for opposing defenses when combined with the PAP and jet sweep/pre-snap movement. But there are plays like the third down with Shady open 14 yards down the field. I wonder if he is second guessing himself due to accuracy issues, and would rather run and fight for the first that way than risk missing on third and having to punt. Either way, it's something I would like to see more of to balance out his run threat. He's shown it before, but especially on those third down conversion scenarios, I want to see him trust himself to get the ball to his playmakers. 

[John from Riverside]

I think they are just trying to get through to this next offseason with 90 million in cap space and 10 draft pickis

[billsredneck1]

49 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said:

So, going back to the Shady situation- maybe he didn't trust Shady because of my second paragraph, or he does trust Shady, but sees so much green ahead of him, he'd rather be guaranteed the first down and have an extra blocker in Shady, than waste all of the running room he has on a pass, which is always riskier than a run.

going forward this is the number one thing i'm looking for from josh.  when he ran and crossed the los you could tell he had that split second blank and i think it was soley instinct.

that play has a lot in terms helping him mature. i hope we see him keep his eyes up just a second longer to try to find these guys.

 

this kind of situation makes a good measuring stick for the future. i hope to see him run less and throw more.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

i sure hope he learns how quick because that's a 3rd of the qb game.  the need to move the chains  makes it a must. i like that he doesn't do it on 3rd and longs, but when it's there for the taking, gotta do it.  they are talking about this now on the radio. it was said that brady uses these a lot and basically it becomes an extension to the run game....short throws and yac.

 

Allen said earlier in the season that Daboll was coaching him "don't pass one up to take a shot" meaning don't pass up a clean 5 yd pass to take a low-percentage shot downfield.  Now obviously he is taking plenty of shots, so there has to be a mixture, but hopefully Daboll will continue to stress that point.

[Augie]

By no means do I want him turning into Captain Checkdwn, but I’d like to see him do it a little more to see if he CAN do it. The 20-30 yard bullet plays to his strength - a huge arm. Does he consistently have the touch to throw that good dump pass? I’m not saying he doesn’t, I just haven’t seen enough to feel as comfortable as I should.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

By no means do I want him turning into Captain Checkdwn, but I’d like to see him do it a little more to see if he CAN do it. The 20-30 yard bullet plays to his strength - a huge arm. Does he consistently have the touch to throw that good dump pass? I’m not saying he doesn’t, I just haven’t seen enough to feel as comfortable as I should.  

 

Short passes were an aspect of Allen's game acknowledged by everyone knowledgeable (Allen, Daboll, Solak's contextual QBing) as a gap.

 

He's been working on it, and I do see solid improvement, but more work needed.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Short passes were an aspect of Allen's game acknowledged by everyone knowledgeable (Allen, Daboll, Solak's contextual QBing) as a gap.

 

He's been working on it, and I do see solid improvement, but more work needed.

he needs to work on all facets of his game....

 

The difference between that 2nd year QB that blooms or busts is their ability to work on their all around game and take advantage of teams having game film on them.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

going forward this is the number one thing i'm looking for from josh.  when he ran and crossed the los you could tell he had that split second blank and i think it was soley instinct.

that play has a lot in terms helping him mature. i hope we see him keep his eyes up just a second longer to try to find these guys.

 

this kind of situation makes a good measuring stick for the future. i hope to see him run less and throw more.

 

I think part of it goes back to a comment I made in another thread - Allen came into the league with NO idea of the speed and power he'd face in NFL defenders.

Wyoming did not face the colledge defenders the NFL disproportionately drafts from Ohio State, LSU, 'Bama, Clemson etc

 

So his first few games were a learning curve about what he *couldn't* do.  Now he's learned he has the moves and the wheels to evade these guys if he turns it up to "full throttle", and he needs to develop a sense of when he has time to stop, set, and throw (as well as his ability to throw off platform).

 

[tumaro02]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Allen needs to trust himself to get it to his teammates when they're wide open, and trust his teammate (Shady) to be able to get at least as many yards.

Trusting any receiver on this team to do something that should be ordinary is a big risk. Even Zay who had a decent game did NOT make at least 2 important catches that he had his hands on. Allen trusted Charles Clay to make a catch on the last play that any decently skilled high school player not making 8 mil would make and you see what that got him. No, receivers have to EARN the trust of the QB or if I am Allen and know I am the best athlete in this offense and I want to win really badly I am less trusting of my teammates until they demonstrate they CAN be trusted, especially with his physical ability running the ball vs our "drop" rate. The evidence is clear.

[formerlyofCtown]

31 minutes ago, billvernsays said:

I understand. Brady is an established QB 

 

My point is that perhaps the coaches are telling him to try to figure out what he’s capable of and not capable of and NOT trying to take the easy passes which may even be the highest probably of a successful play because his development is more important than the outcome of the play/game.

 

When you put that in contrast with Brady who’s simply trying to get the best possible outcome for every play, he’s established he doesn’t need to take risks until he needs to when the games on the line he will. Ideally that’s where we want to be. But we aren’t exactly in the same position as the Pats currently. 

 

Most rookie QBs are afraid to throw the ball down the field and because of this they don’t attempt the passes, in turn they never learn, develop, and grow. 

I dont think he was knocking Allen I believe his shot was at our WRs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

he needs to work on all facets of his game....

 

The difference between that 2nd year QB that blooms or busts is their ability to work on their all around game and take advantage of teams having game film on them.

 

Sure, John, but the short passes were a particular noted gap because for most QB they are "bunnies", gimmies, the equivalent of the basketball layup.

[formerlyofCtown]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think part of it goes back to a comment I made in another thread - Allen came into the league with NO idea of the speed and power he'd face in NFL defenders.

Wyoming did not face the colledge defenders the NFL disproportionately drafts from Ohio State, LSU, 'Bama, Clemson etc

 

So his first few games were a learning curve about what he *couldn't* do.  Now he's learned he has the moves and the wheels to evade these guys if he turns it up to "full throttle", and he needs to develop a sense of when he has time to stop, set, and throw (as well as his ability to throw off platform).

 

And hes big enough to stiff arm a DE.  I still wish he ran over Ramsey though.

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Short passes were an aspect of Allen's game acknowledged by everyone knowledgeable (Allen, Daboll, Solak's contextual QBing) as a gap.

 

He's been working on it, and I do see solid improvement, but more work needed.

 

Exactly, that’s why I’m eager to see a little more to see where he is in his progress. Just a curiosity thing. 

 

Having said that, I can’t remember the last time I looked forward to the next game as much as I do now, and he’s a big part of that. 

 

 

.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Augie

[Dr. Who]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Sure, John, but the short passes were a particular noted gap because for most QB they are "bunnies", gimmies, the equivalent of the basketball layup.

What's odd about Allen is he seems proficient on some of the harder throws (and can make some throws because of his truly superior gifts that few qbs can even dream of making,) and yet he is behind most qbs in terms of being able to reliably hit on the "easy" throws. He works hard and is bright, so I don't see why he won't catch up on the "bunnies." If he does, look out . . .

[John from Riverside]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Sure, John, but the short passes were a particular noted gap because for most QB they are "bunnies", gimmies, the equivalent of the basketball layup.

This all falls into that discussion about his accuracy and completion percentage and how it was skewed when it comes to Josh Allen

 

Because he didnt throw the bunnies it hurts his percentage......and of course because he has a cannon and needs to learn to take something off it

[TheBrownBear]

Not sure if this is a strategy or more just his personal mindset.  Josh has serious swag and loves to push the ball downfield in search of the big play.  I was pretty distraught when we drafted him over Rosen, but he's absolutely changed my mind.  His attitude, charisma and mental makeup paired with his freakish physical gifts scream future superstar to me.   

[billvernsays]

When you look at the crop of rookie QBs only Josh and Baker seem comfortable throwing the ball 20 yards downfield or more (with certain exceptions like a simple go route. Hard throw but an easy read).

 

That’s what I’m most excited about. He looks raw at times but most of his weaknesses seem much easier to correct than the weaknesses I see in Darnald, Rosen, & Jackson.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, PaattMaann said:

 

are you talking about the sideline laser to Zay for first down when it was 3rd and long from their own 1 yard line and Allen was in the endzone? He had to roll out to his left because protection was horrible...we could be talking about different plays though because there was a lot of Allen to Jones connections.

 

I thought Allen had decent time on that play, but I’m pretty sure we are on the same play. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, billvernsays said:

He threw a ton of Ints his rookie year. Perhaps the Colts tweaked their game plan when they were going up against players like Bruce Smith so they didn’t risk getting their rookie franchise QB hurt. 

Im not speculating about what the game plan was for PM, that’s from Peyton’s own words. Obviously it worked out for him.

 

I’m not sure we are doing the same thing as JA didn’t check down much in college either. But I’m putting it out there for the people who still have concerns about his accuracy to point out that he’s not exactly attempting many “easy throws” good or bad it’s just the reality of the situation. This is evident by the fact that in the past 2 weeks Josh Allen has 2 of the 4 highest Air Yards per attempt for any game since 2016. 

 

Josh Allen vs Jax (2018) - 18.3

Big Ben vs Indy (2016) - 16.9 

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Pats (2016) - 16.1 

Josh Allen vs Miami (2018) - 15.9

Isn’t Tim Tebow second in that stat?

 

also, the Bills didn’t have to have terrible receivers around Allen this year.  They just made poor choices.  Hopefully, they get someone else to scout receivers for them.

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I'm definitely eating crow right now as I was on the start Barkley until he flops train before going back to Allen. Allen has looked like a completely different QB since coming back from the injury. 

 

In the six games before the injury he was getting sacked on 13% of his drop backs. 21 sacks in 6 games. Had a YPA of 6.0 and was only gaining 4.4 yards per rush.

 

In his last two starts the sack rate has decreased significantly to 3.7%, only 2 sacks in 2 games. His YPA has increased to 7.5 and his rushing has been extremely efficient at 11.8ypr. The only stat that has hovered around the same is completion percentage. But I am fine with that for now.

 

Extremely efficient? Yeah, i would say like absolutely extraordinary.