Bookie Man Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 13 hours ago, PeterDude said: Then he's not cutout for football right? What would he be cutout for? Do you want him to check himself into a ward? Not sure what you want from the kid. He had a pretty good NCAA career, and is showing some good stuff lately. Football doesn't seem like a terrible path for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 clap clap clap! I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: Zay is the type of guy who moves the chains and can score in the red zone. Once again he nearly had 3 TDs yesterday, that's what you want from a #1. I think Zay will put up 1,000yards next year or close to it. Granted it'll be at 11yac but still there's nothing wrong at all with 10 yards and a 1st down. He can be a 10TD guy. Once again, he is a big WR in the red zone, big 6'2 target and has wonderful feet. We need a splashy #2. Whether or not he is labeled as a #1 or #2 receiver isn't important. What's more important is having a collection of receivers whose individual talents enhance and reinforce the unit. A speed receiver who makes the defense back-up would make Zay Jones more effective. Zay Jones making a lot of inside and short and medium range receptions makes the speed wide-out/s more effective. If you add a TE threat that also makes the other receivers and unit in general better. In addition, in some games the so-called #2 receiver becomes the primary receiver. And in other games the #1 receiver becomes the primary receiver. And then there are games where the TE is the dominant receiver. The point is that whatever a receiver's role is it is an important role regardless what the role designation is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, JohnC said: Whether or not he is labeled as a #1 or #2 receiver isn't important. What's more important is having a collection of receivers whose individual talents enhance and reinforce the unit. A speed receiver who makes the defense back-up would make Zay Jones more effective. Zay Jones making a lot of inside and short and medium range receptions makes the speed wide-out/s more effective. If you add a TE threat that also makes the other receivers and unit in general better. In addition, in some games the so-called #2 receiver becomes the primary receiver. And in other games the #1 receiver becomes the primary receiver. And then there are games where the TE is the dominant receiver. The point is that whatever a receiver's role is it is an important role regardless what the role designation is. Absolutely. I like looking at it from that pov as well. Targets determine how a defense will react. More than anything we need a Kamara or McCaffery over a TE or WR though. Even more than Marquise Brown. We need an all purpose back. Someone who is going to put up 2,000 yards from the LOS. If the Bills were smart they'd dump Shady and Ivory and sign LeVeon Bell and draft another guy RDs 4-5. That right there is what we need. I'm not saying we don't need another WR or TE because we do but RB needs to be fixed first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIDE LEFT Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I hate to disagree but you are seeing a very limited wide receiver in Zay Jones. Certainly a big improvement from his rookie year, but that rookie year was historically bad. Heres the problem with Zay - he cannot get consistent separation when being played man to man. The plays you see him making are generally breakdowns in zone coverage or him finding the right openings in the zone coverage. Which is fine, but very limited. And when you are that limited, you better have great hands and be able to make the tough catches. He does not. Almost all the passes he catches are in his wheelhouse. He almost never comes down with a tough catch. Yesterday was a perfect example. Early in the game he missed a high but catchable ball. And of course at games end he dropped a very catchable ball. Many college receivers who will never make it in the NFL routinely make that catch. And of course it was man to man coverage, and as so often seen, Zay had little to no separation. Allen throws a great back shoulder pass, negating the tight coverage, and Zay can’t make the play. He has to be better than that. Allen deserves better receivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: Absolutely. I like looking at it from that pov as well. Targets determine how a defense will react. More than anything we need a Kamara or McCaffery over a TE or WR though. Even more than Marquise Brown. We need an all purpose back. Someone who is going to put up 2,000 yards from the LOS. If the Bills were smart they'd dump Shady and Ivory and sign LeVeon Bell and draft another guy RDs 4-5. That right there is what we need. I'm not saying we don't need another WR or TE because we do but RB needs to be fixed first. I'm more interested in dramatically upgrading the OL than in opening the vault for LeVeon Bell. If you significantly upgrade the line up uplift this stuck offense. I also agree with you that we need backs who have fresher legs. That's where I am at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I loved Zay's postgame interview. Coming off of the best statistical performance of his career, he was pissed as hell that they lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, JohnC said: I'm more interested in dramatically upgrading the OL than in opening the vault for LeVeon Bell. If you significantly upgrade the line up uplift this stuck offense. I also agree with you that we need backs who have fresher legs. That's where I am at. I'm sure the entire offense is getting gutted. I'm salivating over all our cap space and draft picks. I'm starting to believe in the process again. We can easily fix everything on offense. If mock draft hacks such as myself and many others can put out fantastic mock drafts and mock offseasons what do you think coach McD is going to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Anyone who pays attention to people calling a second round pick the “biggest bust ever” is kind of ridiculous. Ignore the noise. Did people really say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Juice_32 said: I loved Zay's postgame interview. Coming off of the best statistical performance of his career, he was pissed as hell that they lost. That screams leadership. As time goes, he is going to be the one that holds players accountable. The Bills knew he was that type of person, which is why they dealt with the off season stuff. He's an emotional kid. But on the field and in front of the press, he keeps it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 After this past offseason he knew he had better come to work or his future wouldn't look real bright ! I had hoped given what they thought of him coming out of the draft he would be the guy we see on the field now ! I still don't think he's a #1 (although he is given wha they have in the WR room now) but he will be a good #2 n Dabol's when they find their #1 WR !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I wish he would have made that 4Q catch on 3rd and 11. DB was on him, but he nearly had it. Just need a little more arm and hand strength there and it’s first and goal with 40 or 50 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 10 hours ago, Augie said: Trust the mods. If he keeps up with being worthless it’s a matter of time. I’m all for different opinions, but there’s another level that they will deal with in time. It was the Mahomes avatar that made me think it was the same clown. Subtle, I know. . Fella was bashing the Sabres and calling hockey bush league in another thread. He's just here to pee in the cheerios. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Dr. Who said: Fella was bashing the Sabres and calling hockey bush league in another thread. He's just here to pee in the cheerios. Don't dismiss the utility of cheerios soaked in pee. The pee soaked oats not only ad nutritional value but it also fortifies one's immune system. However, the downside to this product is that it can make you look very yellow. It has to be acknowledged that the jaundiced look is not very appealing to others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 19 hours ago, PolishPrince said: I just wanted to give a shoutout to Zay Jones. Lost in all this Allen talk and KB Clay talk is Zay Jones. He has really stepped up his game running routes, blocking, his hands have been fantastic and unlike K-Biscuit and Clay, he seems to be working his tail off. considering there were posts calling him the “biggest bust in history,” the issues in the off-season, and coming off a surgery, he has really made great progress. Kudos Zay! PS: How about that throw and catch by Allen and Zay on 3rd and 12 on our own 2 yard line! For a 2nd-round pick taken 37th overall he should have "come around" last season. He's still very below average in target% catches. He also ranks behind 5 WRs drafted well after him that are playing much better than he is in most ways. There are even a few backups that have posted numbers close to Jones' that don't even start. If he were anything close to what most thought then he should be posting 1,000 this season and he has no shot at that. He had a good game yesterday maybe, but he's posted only four games in both seasons of over 60 yards and only 3 games with more than 4 receptions, and none of those games were against good defenses. The Jets and Miami have two of the worst defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: For a 2nd-round pick taken 37th overall he should have "come around" last season. He's still very below average in target% catches. He also ranks behind 5 WRs drafted well after him that are playing much better than he is in most ways. There are even a few backups that have posted numbers close to Jones' that don't even start. If he were anything close to what most thought then he should be posting 1,000 this season and he has no shot at that. He had a good game yesterday maybe, but he's posted only four games in both seasons of over 60 yards and only 3 games with more than 4 receptions, and none of those games were against good defenses. The Jets and Miami have two of the worst defenses. You are right, our QB/Offense is as potent as the other WR's your are thinking of. It probably has nothing to do with having 4 different QB's throwing to him this season alone. Did I say other WR's drafted in past two years werent playing better? Nope. Did I say he was the best? Nah..... I did say he has stepped up and is coming around - which is still valid. "he should have come around last season." I mean he got shoulder surgery this off-season that he played through all last season, surely that counts for something.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) Should have caught that third & 11 pass at the end & also another tough catch (but catchable) ball was dropped ...... Seen so many receivers hold on or make those catches. Always 2 steps forward, 1 step back with him. I actually can 't remember a great catch he's made. Edited December 3, 2018 by Billsfan1972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill Merchant Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 19 hours ago, billsfan11 said: Descent game by Zay today. Still would have liked to see him make 1 or two more plays though. That 3rd and 11 in the first half (was a tough catch don’t get me wrong) And the one at the end of course. I know it should have been PI but would have liked to see him come down with it regardless. Overall he has progressed nicely this year though and actually looks like a NFL receiver I thought it was more of an ascent game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 14 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Should have caught that third & 11 pass at the end & also another tough catch (but catchable) ball was dropped ...... Seen so many receivers hold on or make those catches. Always 2 steps forward, 1 step back with him. I actually can 't remember a great catch he's made. His first TD catch. What about the toe tap sideline catch when Josh threw a laser on 3rd and 12 from our own 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, PolishPrince said: His first TD catch. What about the toe tap sideline catch when Josh threw a laser on 3rd and 12 from our own 2 Thanks for reminding me in his rookie season he not having the ability to tap his toes. Yesterday it was a perfect pass that he caught and tapped his tows. Both TD's were perfect throws too. I'm talking making a difficult catch, adjusting where needed, getting up in the air, taking it out of the defenders hands or absorbing a hit while catching. Don't remember those. Edited December 3, 2018 by Billsfan1972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 32 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: For a 2nd-round pick taken 37th overall he should have "come around" last season. He's still very below average in target% catches. He also ranks behind 5 WRs drafted well after him that are playing much better than he is in most ways. There are even a few backups that have posted numbers close to Jones' that don't even start. If he were anything close to what most thought then he should be posting 1,000 this season and he has no shot at that. He had a good game yesterday maybe, but he's posted only four games in both seasons of over 60 yards and only 3 games with more than 4 receptions, and none of those games were against good defenses. The Jets and Miami have two of the worst defenses. His development is normal. WR is a position where there tends to be a learning curve and I think he's starting to shine. Season is not over yet, if it's stats you care about I think you'll be satisfied over the next 4 games of the season. Zay is ready to ascend. He's capable of being a #1. We did this to Woods, we did this to Watkins. Zay is good enough for me and he should be for you he's a good receiver. He is the #1 until you beat the 1. Also, I'm not sure your 1st round WRs this year can beat out Zay Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, NewDayBills said: His development is normal. WR is a position where there tends to be a learning curve and I think he's starting to shine. Season is not over yet, if it's stats you care about I think you'll be satisfied over the next 4 games of the season. Zay is ready to ascend. He's capable of being a #1. We did this to Woods, we did this to Watkins. Zay is good enough for me and he should be for you he's a good receiver. He is the #1 until you beat the 1. Also, I'm not sure your 1st round WRs this year can beat out Zay Jones. LMAO Apparently you ignored what I just wrote and all the stats behind it. But you're right, if Jones, despite his well-below average target% ratio, can somehow manage to log 150 receiving yards-per-game the rest of the season, then you may be onto something. Seriously, who thinks like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, TaskersGhost said: LMAO Apparently you ignored what I just wrote and all the stats behind it. But you're right, if Jones, despite his well-below average target% ratio, can somehow manage to log 150 receiving yards-per-game the rest of the season, then you may be onto something. Seriously, who thinks like that. Never said he'll do it this year, next year most likely. I said Zay will have a few more big games over the remaining 4 games. This is his first year with our rookie QB. Got it? Half the season Allen didn't even play because his throwing arm almost got ruined. You expect Zay to put up 1,000 in 2018? Hahahahahahaha. That's not how the world works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 20 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Thanks for reminding me in his rookie season he not having the ability to tap his toes. Yesterday it was a perfect pass that he caught and tapped his tows. Both TD's were perfect throws too. I'm talking making a difficult catch, adjusting where needed, getting up in the air, taking it out of the defenders hands or absorbing a hit while catching. Don't remember those. So you dont consider the toe tapping on the 3rd and 12 play a great catch, Allen threw the ball OB and Zay reached OB to haul it in while barely keeping both toes in. That is a fantastic catch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: Never said he'll do it this year, next year most likely. I said Zay will have a few more big games over the remaining 4 games. This is his first year with our rookie QB. Got it? Half the season Allen didn't even play because his throwing arm almost got ruined. You expect Zay to put up 1,000 in 2018? Hahahahahahaha. That's not how the world works. You said, and I quote, "his development is normal." It's not normal for the expecations of a 37th overall WR who was touted as a top prospect. Can't even believe you're arguing that. I dont' know, perhaps it's "normal" for a good chunk of fans that seem to have lost their sense of what good actually is. For a player that was rated as having been among the few best at his position in his draft, and considering that he ranks thus far near the bottom and well below even 4th and 5th WRs in terms of target catch %, as being closer to a bust than what he was expected to be. If that takes him three seasons, well, there are dozens of WRs, most taken well after him, who are in their first three or four seasons that are playing far better than Jones. That can ONLY mean that his development is far from normal for a player chosen merely 5 picks out of the 1st round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Wait....you mean to tell me that declaring Zay Jones a bust before he was even half way through his second season was premature? GTFO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 He caught the ball along the sidelines and kept his feet in bounds. Last year I remember him on an out not tapping the second foot on an easy catch and being out of bounds. Yesterday he had a good sense of the sideline and did a good job. Was it a great catch? No a good one on a great throw from the end zone on the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, TaskersGhost said: You said, and I quote, "his development is normal." It's not normal for the expecations of a 37th overall WR who was touted as a top prospect. Can't even believe you're arguing that. I dont' know, perhaps it's "normal" for a good chunk of fans that seem to have lost their sense of what good actually is. For a player that was rated as having been among the few best at his position in his draft, and considering that he ranks thus far near the bottom and well below even 4th and 5th WRs in terms of target catch %, as being closer to a bust than what he was expected to be. If that takes him three seasons, well, there are dozens of WRs, most taken well after him, who are in their first three or four seasons that are playing far better than Jones. That can ONLY mean that his development is far from normal for a player chosen merely 5 picks out of the 1st round. It can take a couple years for a WR to find himself. Some dominate right away, others do not for various reasons. Zay never had a QB until now, that's the difference. What happened yesterday will happen again and again. Also, keep in mind we have an inadequate and impotent OL, that has effected our passing game. We are not the Pittsburgh Steelers the Buffalo Bills are coming straight from the gutter, the entire offense has to be built from the ground up. We did not have a 15 year veteran QB like Drew Brees or Ben Roethlisberger, we had Nathan Peterman and AJ McCarron. Of course other receivers have found success sooner but if you put them here they'd look like Zay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Zay is coming around nicely. He sure would benefit from a smart experienced receiver to help him develop. I am not against the Bills overspending for one of these older guys. Zay, Foster and the high round rookie (we are sure to get) AND Josh Allen could use the knowledge. Bills got the extra money, go get a Cobb/Tate type player from one of these "cap strapped" teams. If not in FA then trade for one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Yet another player to silence the "Hes a bust" after only one season crowd. #Lawson#Jones#Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 14 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: It can take a couple years for a WR to find himself. Some dominate right away, others do not for various reasons. Zay never had a QB until now, that's the difference. What happened yesterday will happen again and again. Also, keep in mind we have an inadequate and impotent OL, that has effected our passing game. We are not the Pittsburgh Steelers the Buffalo Bills are coming straight from the gutter, the entire offense has to be built from the ground up. We did not have a 15 year veteran QB like Drew Brees or Ben Roethlisberger, we had Nathan Peterman and AJ McCarron. Of course other receivers have found success sooner but if you put them here they'd look like Zay. Exactly. Not only did the Bills not have the experienced QB they had KB as the veteran WR. That guy didn't help anyone. If anything he was a detriment to Zays' growth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Zay had his second decent game of the year. I guess I’m supposed to declare he is the next AB if I don’t want to get banned from this site. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 21 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Zay had his second decent game of the year. I guess I’m supposed to declare he is the next AB if I don’t want to get banned from this site. Zay is ranked the 40th WR in receptions and 53 in yards................with this years offense. That is already a decent #2 WR. He could easily grow into a solid to top end #2. But don't let that stop you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, TaskersGhost said: For a 2nd-round pick taken 37th overall he should have "come around" last season. He's still very below average in target% catches. He also ranks behind 5 WRs drafted well after him that are playing much better than he is in most ways. There are even a few backups that have posted numbers close to Jones' that don't even start. If he were anything close to what most thought then he should be posting 1,000 this season and he has no shot at that. He had a good game yesterday maybe, but he's posted only four games in both seasons of over 60 yards and only 3 games with more than 4 receptions, and none of those games were against good defenses. The Jets and Miami have two of the worst defenses. ...would that be based on YOUR timetable?.....I certainly understand it is a lateral move from 160 catches at East Carolina to the NFL.......the level of competition is virtually the same..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Out of the current crop of Wrs I think they need a whole new crop with Jones, and Foster the only true hold overs. A combo of rookies and FA, with 4 new ones sticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 24 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Zay is ranked the 40th WR in receptions and 53 in yards................with this years offense. That is already a decent #2 WR. He could easily grow into a solid to top end #2. But don't let that stop you. Stop me from what exactly. Stop creating drama. He is 76th in yards. I like him. I don’t get the attacks on everyone once a bill has a decent game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Stop me from what exactly. Stop creating drama. He is 76th in yards. I like him. I don’t get the attacks on everyone once a bill has a decent game. Your comment about comparing him to AB seemed a little over the top. Most posters would not compare him to AB nor should they. I gave the correct ranking for a WR. Your rankings (receiving yards) include RBs and TEs. I see your point about some peoples overreactions but he is playing pretty good this year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 22 hours ago, PeterDude said: IMO he's still a headcase, not sure if he can be a reliable #2. The only headcase is Kelvin Benjamin who Zay has to show where to line up constantly. There has been zero issues with ZJ since his "jesus" incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, TaskersGhost said: For a 2nd-round pick taken 37th overall he should have "come around" last season. He's still very below average in target% catches. He also ranks behind 5 WRs drafted well after him that are playing much better than he is in most ways. There are even a few backups that have posted numbers close to Jones' that don't even start. If he were anything close to what most thought then he should be posting 1,000 this season and he has no shot at that. He had a good game yesterday maybe, but he's posted only four games in both seasons of over 60 yards and only 3 games with more than 4 receptions, and none of those games were against good defenses. The Jets and Miami have two of the worst defenses. That is why he is "not there yet" he is simply improving and showing that he could belong in our future plans In no way do I want him as my number 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, nedboy7 said: Stop me from what exactly. Stop creating drama. He is 76th in yards. I like him. I don’t get the attacks on everyone once a bill has a decent game. He's also 6'2 with feet of a ballerina, he can be a red zone weapon. People did the same thing to Robert Woods. How he is nothing more than a #2 and he'll never be a #1. Guess what? He's one of the main guys over there on a playoff team. Same thing would happen with Zay. Slightly different skill sets, but similar draft position and similar labels were placed on them unfairly. Yes he can be a #1, he is right now and you can draft someone in the 1st round but they ain't going to beat out a 3 year pro. Just rejoice that Allen has a legit NFL receiver to throw to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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