Star is starting to show he was worth the $. Panthers really missing him.

[boyst]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They are 6-3, we are 3-7.  

They've played no one, they've given up plenty of yards, have great LB's to make up for their DL, and are not a complete team.  If they make the playoffs they won't go far.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They are 6-3, we are 3-7.  

Which has exactly what to do with the OP's post?

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No idea. Murphy will be cut in the offseason.   

 

Star had a rough start, but he has pretty much played better each week. Not sure whether that is understanding the D better or his teammates better or the expectations better.... but he has really come on since about week 5. Harrison Phillips continues to have a really promising rookie year too.

 

 

Gunner

 

What will that do to our dead cap to cut Murphy?   Do you think that is where they are looking for their 1st round pick or do you think they are going to look at another free agent DE?

[LSHMEAB]

Has Harrison Phillips really played all that well? It seems like there's some confirmation bias going on as it relates to him.

 

Jordan Phillips has been the better Phillips.

 

 

39 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Star > Dareus.

Not at football.

 

[John from Riverside]

13 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Has Harrison Phillips really played all that well? It seems like there's some confirmation bias going on as it relates to him.

 

Jordan Phillips has been the better Phillips.

 

 

Not at football.

 

Jordan Phillips has made the flashier plays......but Harrison has been very good

 

And frankly Marcel has NOT outplayed Star.......and while he may have more natural ability.....that is not translating to the field

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, CLTbills said:

Have you watched any games this year, or just read the box score?

Every game this year.  It’s been painful. Have you?  Do you honestly think the Chargers, Bears, Colts, and Ravens were going all out offensively in the 2nd halves?  Or just milking the clock and trying to go home?

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

 

 

Just imagine this defense with an offense that isn't consistently putting them in bad field position , consistently going 3& out and actually giving them a lead to play with. They can be an elite , championship defense for a few years. Mr. Beane will have plenty of opportunity to make that a reality this upcoming off-season .

 

 

Elite defenses don't need all that help to be elite.

 

The Titans offense is near the bottom in scoring, yet it has the best defense re: scoring.  Similar for the Cowboys.  Crappy offense, stingy defense.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

30 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Which has exactly what to do with the OP's post?

Gunner

 

What will that do to our dead cap to cut Murphy?   Do you think that is where they are looking for their 1st round pick or do you think they are going to look at another free agent DE?

That Star’s performance has had no impact on our overall team record.  He is good at his job but it’s a job that he does less than 50% of the time.  

 

IN today’s nfl, you’re better off overpaying a receiver than a run stuffing DT.  SM has an outdated way that football is won now.

49 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

They've played no one, they've given up plenty of yards, have great LB's to make up for their DL, and are not a complete team.  If they make the playoffs they won't go far.

I think you say this every year.  You just forgot the Cam sucks part this time.

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

At the beginning of the year, folks were lamenting that Star was a bad signing. He's clearly not that, though I think one can plausibly argue he is overpaid for what he offers. When you say look at the records, I believe that is missing the larger point, though it has some obvious initial power. Everyone knows the team is 3 - 7. Yet the past week suggests (albeit against a weak and demoralized opponent) that a merely competent offense combined with a superior defense is a likely playoff team. Star is contributing to a superior defense. The narrative that Beane is terrible at free agency is mitigated when a player turns out to be useful.

 

 

McDermott, who is running this team, is good at defensive personnel and terrible at offensive personnel.   

[LSHMEAB]

It's interesting that everyone jumped down C. Biscuit's throat when the thread title insinuates that the "Panthers are really missing him."

 

Stating their record is direct evidence to the contrary. Their run defense is slightly worse. Meh. They're 6-3.

 

Maybe just leave the Panthers out of it if you don't want to know their record.

[boyst]

17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

That Star’s performance has had no impact on our overall team record.  He is good at his job but it’s a job that he does less than 50% of the time.  

 

IN today’s nfl, you’re better off overpaying a receiver than a run stuffing DT.  SM has an outdated way that football is won now.

I think you say this every year.  You just forgot the Cam sucks part this time.

McDermott, who is running this team, is good at defensive personnel and terrible at offensive personnel.   

He's been himself this year.  No point to bring that up. Cmc has been good

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

It's interesting that everyone jumped down C. Biscuit's throat when the thread title insinuates that the "Panthers are really missing him."

 

Stating their record is direct evidence to the contrary. Their run defense is slightly worse. Meh. They're 6-3.

 

Maybe just leave the Panthers out of it if you don't want to know their record.

I still think this takes away from the OP's point

 

Yes they have a good record....but having a defense that is worse is going to show its ugly head come playoff time.

 

When we brought in star the prevailing thought was "Well DT short is all they really need anyway and Star is not that good"  I seem to remember that.......

 

By the way....I am in no way saying that the bills are better then the Panthers as the record does not reflect that.....only that Star was not a BAD aquisition as some have said.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I still think this takes away from the OP's point

 

Yes they have a good record....but having a defense that is worse is going to show its ugly head come playoff time.

 

When we brought in star the prevailing thought was "Well DT short is all they really need anyway and Star is not that good"  I seem to remember that.......

 

By the way....I am in no way saying that the bills are better then the Panthers as the record does not reflect that.....only that Star was not a BAD aquisition as some have said.

Fair point.  But hypothetically, if you could only have one at $10 million/ year, a run stuffing DT or receiver? Which do you pick? Because I know what SM would and I believe that is faulty thinking.  

 

 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

Not sure where you got your stats, but according to espn, Bills have gone from 25th last year to 8th this year in rushing ypa; whereas Carolina has fallen from 11th last year to 16th currently this year. 

 

Certainly a big move for the Bills, but not as dramatic for the Panthers. 

ESPN as well.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt

5.1 ypa for Carolina. Tied for 2nd highest in NFL 

Where'd you get your info!?!

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Elite defenses don't need all that help to be elite.

 

The Titans offense is near the bottom in scoring, yet it has the best defense re: scoring.  Similar for the Cowboys.  Crappy offense, stingy defense.

 

 

They don't have a historically bad offense who has started  4 QB in 10 games, including one rookie. If we just had a competent O, which both those teams have, the defense would benefit greatly. Our offense has been brutal for the most part. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by JerseyBills

[John from Riverside]

25 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fair point.  But hypothetically, if you could only have one at $10 million/ year, a run stuffing DT or receiver? Which do you pick? Because I know what SM would and I believe that is faulty thinking.  

 

 

It seems to me that they are rebiulding the team in increments....this year....the defense (and drafting the franchise QB)

 

I am hoping that next year is the year that the offensive moves everyone wants are made

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No idea. Murphy will be cut in the offseason.   

 

Star had a rough start, but he has pretty much played better each week. Not sure whether that is understanding the D better or his teammates better or the expectations better.... but he has really come on since about week 5. Harrison Phillips continues to have a really promising rookie year too.

 

 

I don't see him being cut. He was starting to play well when the lingering injuries curtailed his ability to play. What he needs to do is to change the way he trains in the offseason. Mostly focusing on power lifting and weights may not be the best approach to prepare for the upcoming season. He needs to include more stretching and flexibility routines to his repertoire and also make some diet adjustments. Tom Brady has been a pioneer in altering the training regimen for football players. Murph needs to give Tom a call or a text and ask for some different advice.  

 

Murphy is not an elite player but he is a good player. However, unless he changes how he trains he is going to go by the wayside.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

ESPN as well.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt

5.1 ypa for Carolina. Tied for 2nd highest in NFL 

Where'd you get your info!?!

They don't have a historically bad offense who has started  4 QB in 10 games, including one rookie. If we just had a competent O, which both those teams have, the defense would benefit greatly. Our offense has been brutal for the most part. 

 

 

I get that.  But a defense's job is to get off the field.  I listed 2 teams that,despite having previously competent Offenses, no longer do....yet it has not affected the performance of their Defenses.

[GunnerBill]

Just to be clear John I like Trent Murphy. I liked him coming out in the draft and saw him have some good games in Washington. But he hasn't been healthy since the moment he got here. Even in the games he played there were moments where he was very clearly limping. The Bills owe him $8m next year or save almost $5m if they get out of his contract. I don't see an argument for retaining someone who hasn't been healthy and as a result has been our 4th most productive defensive end. He can play. But he is nowhere near healthy. If you are going to account for thar extra $5m on your cap you better be sure he can contribute. 

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Gunner

 

What will that do to our dead cap to cut Murphy?   Do you think that is where they are looking for their 1st round pick or do you think they are going to look at another free agent DE?

 

It is $3.5m dead cap but a cap saving of $5m. You better be absolutely sure he is going to be someone who can contribute in 2019 if you are going to commit that extra $5m to him. I just don't see how they can be. He has been hurt since he got here. 

 

I think they are likely to take a pass rusher somewhere high in the draft. It looks now like they probably won't get a top 2 pick to get Bosa or Oliver so the trade back a few spots is an attractive option. This DL class is very, very good. You might get a guy at the top of the 2nd round who is a 1st rpund talent and would go in the 1st most other years who can come in and start opposite Jerry day 1. Because as great as Jerry and Zo have been their combined age is almost biblical you have to start to plan beyond that at an absolute key position. Shaq has had a good year but he is never going to be a double digit sack guy on a consistent basis. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Gunner

 

What will that do to our dead cap to cut Murphy?   Do you think that is where they are looking for their 1st round pick or do you think they are going to look at another free agent DE?

 

It is $3.5m dead cap but a cap saving of $5m. You better be absolutely sure he is going to be someone who can contribute in 2019 if you are going to commit that extra $5m to him. I just don't see how they can be. He has been hurt since he got here. 

 

I think they are likely to take a pass rusher somewhere high in the draft. It looks now like they probably won't get a top 2 pick to get Bosa or Oliver so the trade back a few spots is an attractive option. This DL class is very, very good. You might get a guy at the top of the 2nd round who is a 1st rpund talent and would go in the 1st most other years who can come in and start opposite Jerry day 1. Because as great as Jerry and Zo have been their combined age is almost biblical you have to start to plan beyond that at an absolute key position. Shaq has had a good year but he is never going to be a double digit sack guy on a consistent basis. 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Aside from the Colts game I think our run defense has looked pretty good. I love Tremaine and Milano, but they still sometimes struggle with angles and things of that nature. They will come around. Star has been a big part of that and Jordan Phillips has looked good there as well. Shaq is really excellent in run defense too. 

 

The Colts game was Milano's worst game of the year by some distance. He has been excellent otherwise. Edmunds is more up and down.... not even week to week but play to play! He can still improve in his angles in both the run and pass games. 

[Dopey]

6 hours ago, RPbillsfan said:

We can all look at the standings and pull that gem of wisdom out.  The post was about the quality of improvement in the Bills run defense and how Star has aided in that development.  His counterpoint about the dip in the Carolina run D was to make a comparison and to support the contention that Beane made an excellent signing.

 

i assume that your idiotic post was your pathetic attempt at sarcasm and if so, that's pretty sad.

 

Now let's see if you have the football knowledge or the intellectual accumin to respond to me.

Ooh, yea! Fight!!

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I get that.  But a defense's job is to get off the field.  I listed 2 teams that,despite having previously competent Offenses, no longer do....yet it has not affected the performance of their Defenses.

Dallas just drafted a top 5 rb and traded a 1st for a WR. Carolina also drafted a 1st Rd RB and drafted a 1st Rd WR. So they put much more emphasis on their offense, and they are both in the middle of the pack. Our O has been abysmal, minus 2 games. 

[TPS]

4 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

ESPN as well.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt

5.1 ypa for Carolina. Tied for 2nd highest in NFL 

Where'd you get your info!?!

They don't have a historically bad offense who has started  4 QB in 10 games, including one rookie. If we just had a competent O, which both those teams have, the defense would benefit greatly. Our offense has been brutal for the most part. 

That's the offense rankings, not D.

[RocCityRoller]

9 hours ago, dorquemada said:

McD and Beane certainly seem to have an eye for Defensive talent, and Star has been a good addition.  I'm pretty disappointed in Murphy as he cant seem to stay on the field, which if I recall was the knock on him coming in?

'

 

yes

[Bing Bong]

He played in 40% of snaps as a rotational player they didn't miss him when they had him.

 

He's good for us though. The Panthers are just great in the trenches. Always have been.

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, TPS said:

That's the offense rankings, not D.

Wow. I totally blew that one.  

 

Dohhhhh

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Dallas just drafted a top 5 rb and traded a 1st for a WR. Carolina also drafted a 1st Rd RB and drafted a 1st Rd WR. So they put much more emphasis on their offense, and they are both in the middle of the pack. Our O has been abysmal, minus 2 games. 

 

Dallas drafted a RB 3 drafts ago. 

 

I don't know was the rest of your post has to do with what I said.

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

It seems to me that they are rebiulding the team in increments....this year....the defense (and drafting the franchise QB)

 

I am hoping that next year is the year that the offensive moves everyone wants are made

 

Would you say it’s logical to build the defense, select a qb and then wait a year to surround him with talent?

[Kelly the Dog]

 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

 

Would you say it’s logical to build the defense, select a qb and then wait a year to surround him with talent?

I would not....but that doesnt mean I dont understand the situation.....

 

We have too much dead money this year....they tried to bring in a couple of guys that are having decent seasons this year and they turned us down.....I expect more of the same of that which is why our draft will be important.

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

 

Also our rushing defense would be even better if our opponents don't have a 30 point lead at the start of the 2nd half.  Teams have just run in the 2nd half to close out games.

33 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

 

But none of that would matter if you don't have a decent OL....Your QB will be smothered in the backfield every play and even if he got around that he wouldn't have time to throw to that stud WR who can catch everything...

Edited November 14, 2018 by ganesh

[K-9]

59 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

 

Almost identical to Polian’s formula except after the pass rusher who chases  the QB, he proritized the OT that could protect your passer from the guy that chases your QB. 

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Dallas drafted a RB 3 drafts ago. 

 

I don't know was the rest of your post has to do with what I said.

I guess my point was their offenses are much better and more consistent. It seemed like you were comparing our offense to theirs , but in reality Dallas averages 60 more ypg and Carolina averages 90 more ypg , so even though they don't have elite offenses, they are still much better than the current Bills O. That's basically all I was saying.

 

That is likely to change next year though,as we could spend the majority of our money on O and add the finishing touches to an already Great defense.

[PrimeTime101]

16 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They are 6-3, we are 3-7.  

there always has to be one in the crowd, yes? lol

[JerseyBills]

11 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

It seems to me that they are rebiulding the team in increments....this year....the defense (and drafting the franchise QB)

 

I am hoping that next year is the year that the offensive moves everyone wants are made

Yeah I agree and I think those moves are definitely made. There's just not much glaring needs that needs to be added to the defense, so they can heavily focus on the offensive side. 

 

Beane has a ton of flexibility this off-season, when you really look at the situation, we're sitting pretty nice , you look at the Jests, the only team that'll have more cap space, has plenty of holes and nowhere near the flexibility as Buff. Beane   Can go bpa in the draft as well..

Edited November 14, 2018 by JerseyBills

[PrimeTime101]

14 hours ago, CLTbills said:

Have you watched any games this year, or just read the box score?

The question should be "sir  did you have to look up those standings" lol

[CaptnCoke11]

17 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Most irrelevant response of the year is above.

 

The reality is that stats are meaningless unless they translate into wins.  Wins and losses are the only stats that count at the end of the day.  Deal with it.   The Tampa Bay Bucs had 500+ yards of offense on Sunday and STILL lost 16-3 to the Washington Redskins.

People here are grasping for straws.. Don’t burst  their bubbles

Edited November 14, 2018 by CaptnCoke11

[TPS]

8 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Wow. I totally blew that one.  

 

Dohhhhh

It's still clear Star has an impact. Maybe the better way to look at is the change in ypa from last year?

Bills have gone from 4.3 to 4.0

Panthers from 4.0 to 4.4

 

His impact is about 1/3 of yard in both cases.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, K-9 said:

Almost identical to Polian’s formula except after the pass rusher who chases  the QB, he proritized the OT that could protect your passer from the guy that chases your QB. 

 

And I still take the Polian order too.

 

QB

DE

LT

WR

CB

[GunnerBill]

19 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Exactly. The Bills are #1 in total defense but they're 3-7 and stinking for a top 5 draft pick, not being even as competitive as other bottom feeders like Cleveland, San Fran or Arizona.  The Panthers are #15 in total defense but they're 6-3 and would be a WC team if the playoffs began next week.    Which would you prefer?  Wins or stats?

 

FTR, the 9-1 KC Chiefs are #29 in total defense, the 9-1 New Orleans Saints are #23, and the 9-1 Los Angeles Rams are #13.

 

Except we have more wins than San Fran and Arizona.

 

It is no secret the Bills offense stinks. They have built defense first. Now you can disagree with that as a strategy in the modern NFL, I am even inclined to agree with that.... but the progress they have made defensively under McDermott from the mess he inherited is significant. They have to get better on offense. That much is obvious. This offseason is absolutely critical to the immediate future of the franchise.

[BeginnersMind]

19 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

 

 

Not at football.

 

 

 

Star is better for the Bills, especially at the price. 

[DCOrange]

I'm guessing that this has already been brought up, but per Football Outsiders, Carolina is the #14 rush defense in the league versus Buffalo being #12. Buffalo has improved pretty dramatically from a year ago, but Carolina hasn't fallen off much at all. And both of their DTs are rated much higher by PFF than Star. It's really the pass defense where Carolina has struggled this year, which as we know, Star has almost zero impact on.