Hernandez Beaten, Abused as Child

[hondo in seattle]

On a thread somewhere, a fellow Bills fan said that CTE doesn't explain why Hernandez did what he did.  Lots of NFL players get concussions.  Most don't commit murder.

Now we're starting to get the rest of the story.  Hernandez didn't just suffer from CTE.  He was beaten and abused as a child. 

 

It doesn't excuse his crimes.  But it does help us understand them.  

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/us/aaron-hernandez-spotlight/index.html

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, hondo in seattle said:

On a thread somewhere, a fellow Bills fan said that CTE doesn't explain why Hernandez did what he did.  Lots of NFL players get concussions.  Most don't commit murder.

Now we're starting to get the rest of the story.  Hernandez didn't just suffer from CTE.  He was beaten and abused as a child. 

 

It doesn't excuse his crimes.  But it does help us understand them.  

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/us/aaron-hernandez-spotlight/index.html

 

I really hate crap like this because why is it presented if it isn't intended as exculpatory?

 

Far too many people are beaten or abused as children and do not become conscienceless murderous monsters.  Child abuse doesn't explain what Hernandez did either.

[blitzboy54]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I really hate crap like this because why is it presented if it isn't intended as exculpatory?

 

Far too many people are beaten or abused as children and do not become conscienceless murderous monsters.  Child abuse doesn't explain what Hernandez did either.

 

Of course it does.  Most dogs are friendly, all dogs that are trained to fight are abused.  If you are mean enough to anything they become something different.  Just because not everyone becomes a murderer doesn't mean it doesn't have an impact.

 

And acknowledging past abuse doesn't excuse it.  He can have a reason and not have an excuse.  Both can be true  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, blitzboy54 said:

 

Of course it does.  Most dogs are friendly, all dogs that are trained to fight are abused.  If you are mean enough to anything they become something different.  Just because not everyone becomes a murderer doesn't mean it doesn't have an impact.

 

And acknowledging past abuse doesn't excuse it.  He can have a reason and not have an excuse.  Both can be true  

 

I didn't say abuse doesn't have an effect.  Of course it does.

 

I just said it doesn't explain what Hernandez did.

 

 

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

There’s a thread on this off the wall two pages deep already. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I didn't say abuse doesn't have an effect.  Of course it does.

 

I just said it doesn't explain what Hernandez did.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know Hap.  I hear ya, but...man.  

 

Abused AND molested AND then losing even the abusive/guiding influence in your life...it is not an excuse, but maybe it explains a lot.

[Bangarang]

He was a scumbag who did scumbag things.

[seregil42]

I feel bad for Aaron Hernandez the child.  Aaron Hernandez the adult can rot.

[Mickey]

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I really hate crap like this because why is it presented if it isn't intended as exculpatory?

 

Far too many people are beaten or abused as children and do not become conscienceless murderous monsters.  Child abuse doesn't explain what Hernandez did either.

 

There is apparently a statistical association between child abuse and violent behavior in adulthood that can't be explained by chance. I agree that fact, if true, is not exculpatory. Hernandez, however he got to be the violent person he was, had the tools to get help to control that violence. 

[kbarrettb]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

On a thread somewhere, a fellow Bills fan said that CTE doesn't explain why Hernandez did what he did.  Lots of NFL players get concussions.  Most don't commit murder.

Now we're starting to get the rest of the story.  Hernandez didn't just suffer from CTE.  He was beaten and abused as a child. 

 

It doesn't excuse his crimes.  But it does help us understand them.  

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/us/aaron-hernandez-spotlight/index.html

 

 

So dumb. I don’t care if he was beaten or cte the guy was a piece of ***** at Florida a human piece of ***** and a piece of ***** in the nfl. There is no excuse for the type of piece of ***** he was 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I really hate crap like this because why is it presented if it isn't intended as exculpatory?

 

Far too many people are beaten or abused as children and do not become conscienceless murderous monsters.  Child abuse doesn't explain what Hernandez did either.

 

...isn't it the "new norm" to turn the perpetrator into a victim?........

[hondo in seattle]

40 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...isn't it the "new norm" to turn the perpetrator into a victim?........

 

Hopefully not - and it wasn't my intent at all.

 

Instead we need to understand the consequences of child beatings and molestation.  Some - certainly not all - of the kids getting abused will grow up to be violent.  I think the idea is to highlight the problem so we understand how important it is to solve.  

 

Hernandez deserved to be convicted and jailed.   The question is how to avoid future cases like this.  

[TSOL]

I would imagine the majority of us on the thread had mostly normal, wholesome, and decent upbringings.

 

Never judge a man until you walk a mile in his moccasins 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

 

There is apparently a statistical association between child abuse and violent behavior in adulthood that can't be explained by chance. I agree that fact, if true, is not exculpatory. Hernandez, however he got to be the violent person he was, had the tools to get help to control that violence. 

 

I believe there's an association when you look at the population of violent adult offenders and ask "how many of them were abused as children?"

 

But what is the control group, that is the question?

[TigerJ]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I really hate crap like this because why is it presented if it isn't intended as exculpatory?

 

Far too many people are beaten or abused as children and do not become conscienceless murderous monsters.  Child abuse doesn't explain what Hernandez did either.

It's a complicated picture.  A percentage of persons who suffer extreme abuse and neglect develop a condition called reactive attachment disorder.   In adulthood this is very closely related to something called borderline personality disorder.  Persons who have it certainly have to bear responsibility for actions they take, but they are still victims of the abuse of their childhood.  I am the adoptive parent of a 20 year old, who is a classic case of reactive attachment/borderline personality disorder.  We speak to her repeatedly about taking responsibility for choices she makes every day.  Persons who have it can recover and live relatively normal lives, but sadly, many don't.  A significant number end up in prison, and some have made the news over the years for having committed some of the most horrific acts of violence society has ever witnessed.

[Jpsredemption]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...isn't it the "new norm" to turn the perpetrator into a victim?........

Yes. We live in an excuse ridden society..esp when it comes to less significant outcomes.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

27 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Hopefully not - and it wasn't my intent at all.

 

Instead we need to understand the consequences of child beatings and molestation.  Some - certainly not all - of the kids getting abused will grow up to be violent.  I think the idea is to highlight the problem so we understand how important it is to solve.  

 

Hernandez deserved to be convicted and jailed.   The question is how to avoid future cases like this.  

 

..sorry for the confusion.......I was just making a generic comment and not questioning your intent....we're good bud.......

[mrags]

More excuses for the gang member murderer. Awesome. 

 

At some point, people are accountable for their own actions. Regardless how bad this kid was beaten. Raped. Abused. It doesn’t matter. He was a grown man. Making millions of dollars and had everything accessible to him to better himself. Yet he chose to continue to be a gang member and murderer. I hope the worms and maggots are raping his dead corpse as we speak. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I was watching a documentary about serial killers.  I think it was something like 95% of them were abused as kids.  

Hernandez seems to add to that stat.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I was watching a documentary about serial killers.  I think it was something like 95% of them were abused as kids.  

Hernandez seems to add to that stat.

 

So what's it up to?  95.1%

[TheBrownBear]

Hernandez committed a horrible act.  There is no denying that.  Objectively, he was a bad dude.

 

But I don't understand why people are so adverse to acknowledging that he was basically mentally ill or suffering from an extreme personality disorder for a variety of reasons (abuse, CTE, drug use?).  He was also at the prime age for the onset of mental illness.   And it's not about making him the victim or excusing the behavior, it's more about acknowledging that there are lots of people out there that have had negative experiences that potentially prime them for antisocial behavior in adulthood.  We need to find these people and get them the treatment they need before they harm themselves or others.  

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

So what's it up to?  95.1%

 

They just crazy.

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They just crazy.

 

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Research - Forensic/2005 20-1-Mitchell-40-47.pdf

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I really hate crap like this because why is it presented if it isn't intended as exculpatory?

 

Far too many people are beaten or abused as children and do not become conscienceless murderous monsters.  Child abuse doesn't explain what Hernandez did either.

There's a difference between explanatory and exculpatory that few subjective observers can appreciate. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Research - Forensic/2005 20-1-Mitchell-40-47.pdf

 

Are you hitting on me?

[MAJBobby]

So we just going to ignore his gang ties I guess and continue to look for excuses for a Murderer 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Research - Forensic/2005 20-1-Mitchell-40-47.pdf

This was a topic in OTW yesterday, I posted this: 'Statistically, being abused as a child isn't an excuse for criminal behavior as an adult so much as it's an explanation. It's one of the reasons I tend to be in favor of harsher punishments for convicted child abusers.'

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

No one cares. He's a now dead, miserable scumbag who murdered people.

 

Who cares about his past?

 

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

So we just going to ignore his gang ties I guess and continue to look for excuses for a Murderer 

 

Where, exactly, do you see this happening in this thread?

[GoBills808]

Just now, joesixpack said:

No one cares. He's a now dead, miserable scumbag who murdered people.

 

Who cares about his past?

 

I do, if only in an attempt to prevent future occurrences.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Where, exactly, do you see this happening in this thread?

 

Let see the original post ok he was Abused. Did it cause him to join a gang?  Did it cause him to put it gang work?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I do, if only in an attempt to prevent future occurrences.

 

Unless you're able to have eyes on every household in America, good luck.

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

I don't know Hap.  I hear ya, but...man.  

 

Abused AND molested AND then losing even the abusive/guiding influence in your life...it is not an excuse, but maybe it explains a lot.

 

Imagine if the Bills drafted him instead and had our QBs throwing to him. The guy probably would've became a mass murderer.

[GoBills808]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

Unless you're able to have eyes on every household in America, good luck.

 

Yup, no easy fix. I would start with much harsher sentencing for child abusers as stated above. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Yup, no easy fix. I would start with much harsher sentencing for child abusers as stated above. 

 

I'm of the mind that child molestation should be a death penalty offense. They can NOT be cured of their perversion, so the only way to ensure it won't happen again is to make sure they're not breathing.

 

[Gugny]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Let see the original post ok he was Abused. Did it cause him to join a gang?  Did it cause him to put it gang work?

 

I think it's worthwhile to explore and to understand the pasts of those who've killed others.

 

Not enough time, energy and money has been put toward identifying/properly diagnosing the mentally ill.

 

Too much focus is put on what the mental illness made the person do. 

 

"They chose to start taking drugs."

"Nobody put a gun to his head."

"He's a monster who killed people."

 

Perhaps if we discover WHY people make the decisions they do, we'll be better able to actually help someone BEFORE they make bad choices/cause harm to themselves or others.

 

Yes ... Aaron Hernandez was a scumbag, thug, gangster and a murderer.

 

But there was something in his wiring that was different than most people.  Something that made him both homicidal and suicidal.

 

Understanding that can only help people in the future. 

[LSHMEAB]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

So we just going to ignore his gang ties I guess and continue to look for excuses for a Murderer 

I'm pretty sure he's dead.

 

I don't think exploring contributing factors into his behavior will get him off with time served.

[GoBills808]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

I'm of the mind that child molestation should be a death penalty offense. They can NOT be cured of their perversion, so the only way to ensure it won't happen again is to make sure they're not breathing.

 

I personally think it would be a very good idea to look into harsher sentencing for all cases of convicted child abuse, sexual and otherwise. There is evidence to suggest in such cases it's more than just the life of the abused child that gets ruined. Beyond that might be going past the scope of the OP.

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I think it's worthwhile to explore and to understand the pasts of those who've killed others.

 

Not enough time, energy and money has been put toward identifying/properly diagnosing the mentally ill.

 

Too much focus is put on what the mental illness made the person do. 

 

"They chose to start taking drugs."

"Nobody put a gun to his head."

"He's a monster who killed people."

 

Perhaps if we discover WHY people make the decisions they do, we'll be better able to actually help someone BEFORE they make bad choices/cause harm to themselves or others.

 

Yes ... Aaron Hernandez was a scumbag, thug, gangster and a murderer.

 

But there was something in his wiring that was different than most people.  Something that made him both homicidal and suicidal.

 

Understanding that can only help people in the future. 

Well put.

[mrags]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This was a topic in OTW yesterday, I posted this: 'Statistically, being abused as a child isn't an excuse for criminal behavior as an adult so much as it's an explanation. It's one of the reasons I tend to be in favor of harsher punishments for convicted child abusers.'

Not to sound like such a heartless human being. But there is if difference between a “serial killer” and just your normal every day murderer. A HUGE DIFFERENCE. Serial killers has serious mental problems and with your point, I would tend to agree with. 

 

Your average every day murderer isn’t anything like that. They murder for fun. They murder for gangs. They murder for money. They murder for reputation. They murder for drugs. They murder to extend or defend their gang turf. They murder because they belive they are the victim and they are defending thwmselves. 

 

I couldnt tel you how many murderers I’ve crossed in my line of work but I can tell you it’s a lot. More than you can imagine. Honestly, I couldn’t tell you much different about most of them. Most of them are your average gang member who shows no remorse for what they did and usually doesn’t see anything wrong with their actions. 

 

Then theres the “serial killers”. These guys you can pick out of hundreds of people. They are incredibly different and incredibly odd. They generally would make the most stable person uncomfortable. You just get a feeling about them. 

 

Aaron Hernandez is just your daily run of the mill gang member that’s murdered someone. That is all. End of list. Let him rot and forget about it. Guys like him aren’t suffering from any kind of distinction, they are simply scum bags and brought up as scum bags. Their parents were most likely scum bags. And their friends were most likely scum bags. 

 

If you want to point a finger at the everyday gang member murderer, then point it at the people that make excuses for them because they weren’t brought up the same way as a priveledged suburbian. Blame the countless agencies and programs that not only cater to, but ensure that future generations refuse to work for themselves and desire to take free handouts all for votes. 

 

While conversations like this are going on, the governor himself is granting voting rights to murderers and rapists. All to ensure votes. 

 

How does he do it? By giving things away to people that don’t want to work for what they have. 

 

Sorry to get political. But it’s all part of the chain. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

Not to sound like such a heartless human being. But there is if difference between a “serial killer” and just your normal every day murderer. A HUGE DIFFERENCE. Serial killers has serious mental problems and with your point, I would tend to agree with. 

 

Your average every day murderer isn’t anything like that. They murder for fun. They murder for gangs. They murder for money. They murder for reputation. They murder for drugs. They murder to extend or defend their gang turf. They murder because they belive they are the victim and they are defending thwmselves. 

 

I couldnt tel you how many murderers I’ve crossed in my line of work but I can tell you it’s a lot. More than you can imagine. Honestly, I couldn’t tell you much different about most of them. Most of them are your average gang member who shows no remorse for what they did and usually doesn’t see anything wrong with their actions. 

 

Then theres the “serial killers”. These guys you can pick out of hundreds of people. They are incredibly different and incredibly odd. They generally would make the most stable person uncomfortable. You just get a feeling about them. 

 

Aaron Hernandez is just your daily run of the mill gang member that’s murdered someone. That is all. End of list. Let him rot and forget about it. Guys like him aren’t suffering from any kind of distinction, they are simply scum bags and brought up as scum bags. Their parents were most likely scum bags. And their friends were most likely scum bags. 

 

If you want to point a finger at the everyday gang member murderer, then point it at the people that make excuses for them because they weren’t brought up the same way as a priveledged suburbian. Blame the countless agencies and programs that not only cater to, but ensure that future generations refuse to work for themselves and desire to take free handouts all for votes. 

 

While conversations like this are going on, the governor himself is granting voting rights to murderers and rapists. All to ensure votes. 

 

How does he do it? By giving things away to people that don’t want to work for what they have. 

 

Sorry to get political. But it’s all part of the chain. 

We could continue this discussion elsewhere for sure. I appreciate your thoughts on it. I disagree with most of them.