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It’s confirmed: Zay Jones is the biggest bust in living memory


BringBackOrton

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2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Zay looked like a legit slot WR today.  

 

Now we just need 2 outside guys and we’ll be good to go? 

20 passes 

43 runs 

 

Zay early and caught the ball.  

 

KB?  I’m done with him. 

 

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Zay looked like a legit slot WR today.  

 

Now we just need 2 outside guys and we’ll be good to go? 

20 passes 

43 runs 

 

Zay early and caught the ball.  

 

KB?  I’m done with him. 

 

Zay is the least of our problems

 

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9 hours ago, Best Player Available said:

In terms of production this season. That's not saying much. 

I know, but I still think there is hope he can be decent. kB and Holmes are both useless , i would rather play Ray ray and foster than them

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    Receiving             Total Yds    
No. Player  Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm
                     
11 Zay Jones 17 10 144 14.4 0 57 0.588 10 14.4 144
25 LeSean McCoy 13 8 41 5.1 0 9 0.615 29 4.3 126
85 Charles Clay 14 8 87 10.9 0 21 0.571 8 10.9 87
13 Kelvin Benjamin 21 7 92 13.1 1 34 0.333 7 13.1 92
80 Jason Croom 9 6 64 10.7 1 26 0.667 6 10.7 64
18 Andre Holmes 12 6 51 8.5 0 22 0.5 6 8.5 51
33 Chris Ivory 6 4 100 25 0 55 0.667 35 5.2 181
Edited by ShadyBillsFan
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2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:
    Receiving             Total Yds    
No. Player  Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm
                     
11 Zay Jones 17 10 144 14.4 0 57 0.588 10 14.4 144
25 LeSean McCoy 13 8 41 5.1 0 9 0.615 29 4.3 126
85 Charles Clay 14 8 87 10.9 0 21 0.571 8 10.9 87
13 Kelvin Benjamin 21 7 92 13.1 1 34 0.333 7 13.1 92
80 Jason Croom 9 6 64 10.7 1 26 0.667 6 10.7 64
18 Andre Holmes 12 6 51 8.5 0 22 0.5 6 8.5 51
33 Chris Ivory 6 4 100 25 0 55 0.667 35 5.2 181

So ... you're telling us Zay is on pace to catch 32 passes for 461 yards. And that with those numbers, he'll be our leading receiver in terms of catches AND yards. Which means:

A. He's the best we have, and we do have a couple highly compensated pass catchers (Clay/KB), so he's clearly not a bust.

B. Our QBs have been so bad that you really can't draw any conclusions about the quality/performance of our receivers this year.

C. I don't care who's playing QB. 32 catches for 461 yards is trash from a high second rounder in his second season.

D. B and C combined.

 

EDIT: food for thought - QB situations don't get a whole lot worse than the Browns last year, where the legendary Corey Coleman caught 23 balls for 305 yards in just barely over half a season (9 games played).

 

 

Edited by The Frankish Reich
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He doesn't run great routes. He doesn't get separation. He can't go deep. He doesn't track the ball in the air well. He often bobbles it even when he catches it. He doesn't have great awareness or do well by the first down marker, although yesterday he did make one play to get a first down that showed some awareness. He has not shown that many other times near the sidelines or first down marker.

 

Other than that, he's average. 

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5 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

So ... you're telling us Zay is on pace to catch 32 passes for 461 yards. And that with those numbers, he'll be our leading receiver in terms of catches AND yards. Which means:

A. He's the best we have, and we do have a couple highly compensated pass catchers (Clay/KB), so he's clearly not a bust.

B. Our QBs have been so bad that you really can't draw any conclusions about the quality/performance of our receivers this year.

C. I don't care who's playing QB. 32 catches for 461 yards is trash from a high second rounder in his second season.

D. B and C combined.

 

EDIT: food for thought - QB situations don't get a whole lot worse than the Browns last year, where the legendary Corey Coleman caught 23 balls for 305 yards in just barely over half a season (9 games played).

 

Sure, that's the message I am sending!!!  

 

(I think the real message is we have bigger problems than Zay)

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I'm 100% sure this stat will lead to all sorts of justification about off coverage when teams are beating the bills ass, him being the number 2 receiver or whatever else. I am also in no way shape or form saying Jones is anywhere near the level the guys they mention. I just saw this and wanted to point it out. 

 

 

I will say, calling him the biggest bust in living memory may be a bit of an exaggeration. 

 

 

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2018 leaders  5 games 
player total        avg/g
Zay 164 32.80
KB 103 20.60
Ivory 100 20.00
Clay 99 19.80
Croom 73 14.60
Shady 64 12.80

 

2017 leading receivers -   yds

Clay 558 34.88
Shady 448 28.00
Thompson 430 26.88
O'Leary 322 20.13
Zay  316 19.75

 

2015 leading receivers -   yds

Woods 613 38.31
Clay 552 34.50
Goodwin 431 26.94
Watkins 430 26.88
Shady 356 22.25

 

2014 leading receivers -   yds

Watkins 1047 65.44
Woods 552 34.50
Clay 528 33.00
Hogan 450 28.13
Shady 292 18.25

 

 

Quote
On 10/8/2018 at 9:54 AM, The Frankish Reich said:

So ... you're telling us Zay is on pace to catch 32 passes for 461 yards.

 

So.... not much different than ALL the talent the Bills lost  - just saying 

 

   
     
     
     
     
     
     
Edited by ShadyBillsFan
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5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

This thread will live until the OP makes the correction.  

 

Ill keep posting the stats as a weekly reminder.  

 

And I'm o.k. with that too. Look, if you're gonna believe that this isn't 95% about horrid QB play, then you have to believe all of these at the same time: (1) that Benjamin in his contract year is suddenly complete trash, (2) that Zay Jones simply can't get open or catch the ball when he is open, and (3) that Charles Clay has suddenly moved from reliable but unspectacular 5 catches/60 yards per game guy to almost complete nonfactor.  I prefer the simpler explanation - it's all on the QBs.

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16 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

 

You don't break the NCAA reception record unless you can separate. Reports of Zays demise have been greatly overstated.

Hmmm...but I’ve been told by folks around here that Allen is fine just all the receivers suck. They can’t get open and whatnot. Really makes you think ? 

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Just now, JoPar_v2 said:

Hmmm...but I’ve been told by folks around here that Allen is fine just all the receivers suck. They can’t get open and whatnot. Really makes you think ? 

Are you really saying that Zay Jones has been beating coverage and often open and Josh Allen has been repeatedly missing him? That hasn't been happening. In fact, Zay dropped a very catchable third and long pass by Allen today. 

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1 minute ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Hmmm...but I’ve been told by folks around here that Allen is fine just all the receivers suck. They can’t get open and whatnot. Really makes you think ? 

 

Allen is struggling to slow the game down and make reads. On the whole our receivers are terrible. But Allen was a project when we drafted him, nothing has changed. No one can say what he will or will not be yet.

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Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Are you really saying that Zay Jones has been beating coverage and often open and Josh Allen has been repeatedly missing him? That hasn't been happening. In fact, Zay dropped a very catchable third and long pass by Allen today. 

Just commenting on the separation stat brought up above. I don’t think Allen has been missing him a lot per se, because I don’t think Allen has kept his head up and eyes down the field long enough to even make the decision to throw to Zay, or anyone else. And I have to look at the drop stats for this season, but I’d bet Zay has improved on that compared to year 1.

2 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

 

Allen is struggling to slow the game down and make reads. On the whole our receivers are terrible. But Allen was a project when we drafted him, nothing has changed. No one can say what he will or will not be yet.

As a whole unit, yes - the WRs are bad. Zay is the best of a bad bunch right now, which isn’t saying a whole lot. Hope he continues to improve.

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1 minute ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Just commenting on the separation stat brought up above. I don’t think Allen has been missing him a lot per se, because I don’t think Allen has kept his head up and eyes down the field long enough to even make the decision to throw to Zay, or anyone else. And I have to look at the drop stats for this season, but I’d bet Zay has improved on that compared to year 1.

Don't look at the separation stats they are complete bullschitt. A play where no one covers a guy because of a mistaken coverage a guy has great separation. Look at the games and then the all-22. Zay gets little separation although in the last couple games he's been slightly better. Not good though. Very nice double move and catch on the TD though. That was very nice. 

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1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Don't look at the separation stats they are complete bullschitt. A play where no one covers a guy because of a mistaken coverage a guy has great separation. Look at the games and then the all-22. Zay gets little separation although in the last couple games he's been slightly better. Not good though. Very nice double move and catch on the TD though. That was very nice. 

Thanks - I don’t see that stat quoted a lot, so I am not certain how they calculate it. If they just throw every play into the pot and bust out the rulers without taking into account the coverage, then yes it’s pretty useless and mostly BS

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10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Don't look at the separation stats they are complete bullschitt. A play where no one covers a guy because of a mistaken coverage a guy has great separation. Look at the games and then the all-22. Zay gets little separation although in the last couple games he's been slightly better. Not good though. Very nice double move and catch on the TD though. That was very nice. 

bull **** maybe.   But one argument here is that the WR’s don’t separate. 

 

The tweet above indicates he does.  

 

KB has been getting the most targets and has the least production.  

 

Maybe they need to target Zay more. 

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2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

bull **** maybe.   But one argument here is that the WR’s don’t separate. 

 

The tweet above indicates he does.  

 

KB has been getting the most targets and has the least production.  

 

Maybe they need to target Zay more. 

It depends on how the stat is calculated. The "time to throw" stat often if not usually shows the exact opposite of what it is supposed to. Out of contact the raw stat is less than worthless. It's harmful because people don't know how to see it or use it or understand it. 

 

When do these stat companies start and stop calling something "separation?"  A lot of times a defender watching the QB will leave his man as soon as he is confident it's not going to him. That guy gets the extra separation yards? If it's a zone, which is like, half the plays, and the defense let's a guy go so the safety behind is supposed to pick him up, this is "separation?" It's a total bullschitt stat. 

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6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It depends on how the stat is calculated. The "time to throw" stat often if not usually shows the exact opposite of what it is supposed to. Out of contact the raw stat is less than worthless. It's harmful because people don't know how to see it or use it or understand it. 

 

When do these stat companies start and stop calling something "separation?"  A lot of times a defender watching the QB will leave his man as soon as he is confident it's not going to him. That guy gets the extra separation yards? If it's a zone, which is like, half the plays, and the defense let's a guy go so the safety behind is supposed to pick him up, this is "separation?" It's a total bullschitt stat. 

I’ve said it many times. Stats lie.  

 

Basically what you are stating 

 

they dont often tell the right story. 

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