Top 5 qbs all-time

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, CDogg20 said:

Who are your top 5 interested to hear. 

 

Mine would have to be...

 

1. Manning

2. Brady

3. Montana

4. Marino 

5. Rogers

 

Favre 

Kelly 

Sammy Baugh 

Young

Brees

Just miss the list off the top of my head 

 

Mannng was not a good post season QB compared to others.  No way he’s number 1.  When you are the #1 seed and go one and done 9 times, you don’t belong at the top of this list.

 

without question top 2 are Montana and Brady, or Brady and Montana.

 

1.  Brady - Done more with less than any QB in NFL history.  Has mostly won his SBs with mediocre collection of weapons.

2.  Montana

3.  Young - people forget just how good this man was.

4.  Marino

5.  Rogers

 

6.  Manning

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

 

 

Young in front of Manning?...........absurd.

 

I have Young ahead of Manning too.  People forget how insanely good Young was because people think of Montana in SF.  

 

Manning was not a good post season QB in comparison to his regular season.  9 times he was the #1 seed and would go one and done in the playoffs.  I would even take Kurt Warner in the postseason anytime over Manning.  

Edited September 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[sven233]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Mannng was not a good post season QB compared to others.  No way he’s number 1.  When you are the #1 seed and go one and done 9 times, you don’t belong at the top of this list.

 

without question top 2 are Montana and Brady, or Brady and Montana.

 

1.  Brady - Done more with less than any QB in NFL history.  Has mostly won his SBs with mediocre collection of weapons.

2.  Montana

3.  Young - people forget just how good this man was.

4.  Marino

5.  Rogers

 

6.  Manning

 

Brady, while great, should never be considered #1 because of all the cheating.  He also recently said that Rodgers would be better than anyone else with better coaching.

Edited September 15, 2018 by sven233

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, sven233 said:

 

Brady, while great, should never be considered #1 because of all the cheating.  He also recently said that Rogers would be better than anyone else with better coaching.

 

The “cheating” impact is so grossly over exaggerated around here.  He’s the GOAT until someone dethrones him.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[sven233]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The “cheating” impact is so grossly over exaggerated around here.  He’s the GOAT until someone dethrones him.

 

Uh.....no.  They barely won any of their early titles.  Any type of cheating could have swayed those games.  Also, they were doing this cheating all along before they got caught.  Who knows how long they were cheating before they got caught and who knows what else they are doing that they haven't been called on yet.  His whole career is tainted. Period.

 

And the quotes around "cheating" are not necessary.  They are proven cheaters (multiple times), so no need to couch it.  They cheated and didn't pay a big enough price for it.

Edited September 15, 2018 by sven233

[RobbRiddick]

Without reading any replies yet and discounting those I didn't see play like Otto Graham and Unitas, I'd have to say (off the top of my head):

 

Montana

Brady

Elway

Manning

Favre

 

Favre is a weird one for me as I'm guessing not many will have him in their list. But for me Favre was the greatest QB to watch. I just loved him. I also think he was one of the most naturally gifted QBs I've ever seen, some of the throws he made were like no one else. He played like a kid who was just enjoying it out there. Got annoying the last few years when he kept retiring and unretiring but he's one of those guys that when he's been gone a few years you really start to see the hole he's left.

 

Montana I've always thought is the greatest. I still think he's better than Brady. Different eras so hard to judge, and you can say both guys had his own advantages, but the way I come to my decision is easy:

 

Someone has a gun against my head and says, "it's the final drive of the Super Bowl, you have to get a touchdown to win otherwise I'm going to blow your brains out. You can choose one QB from history to go out and take the snaps. Who do you choose?"

 

I can honestly say I would 100% pick Joe Cool. Brady would be second but Montana is my undisputed number one. 

[Iron Maiden]

5 minutes ago, sven233 said:

 

Uh.....no.  They barely won any of their early titles.  Any type of cheating could have swayed those games.  Also, they were doing this cheating all along before they got caught.  Who knows how long they were cheating before they got caught and who knows what else they are doing that they haven't been called on yet.  His whole career is tainted. Period.

 

And the quotes around "cheating" are not necessary.  They are proven cheaters (multiple times), so no need to couch it.  They cheated and didn't pay a big enough price for it.

Most players ( former and current ) and coaches say that Brady is the GOAT....I put more weight in their opinion than any other....They've played the game....some faced him....they know how tough he is to beat....He keeps being named #1 in that poll by the players themselves ( Top 100 ) He just won the MVP at 40 years old....has 5 rings including the greatest comeback even seen in a Superbowl....has done it all with very few offensive weapons ( Moss for 2 years and now Gronk )....Rodgers also says that Brady is the best...no player would claim they're the best..they would get crucified in social media..He's the GOAT...whether we like it or not....

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000787722/article/even-aaron-rodgers-admits-tom-brady-is-the-goat

[sven233]

5 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

Most players ( former and current ) and coaches say that Brady is the GOAT....I put more weight in their opinion than any other....They've played the game....some faced him....they know how tough he is to beat....He keeps being named #1 in that poll by the players themselves ( Top 100 ) He just won the MVP at 40 years old....has 5 rings including the greatest comeback even seen in a Superbowl....has done it all with very few offensive weapons ( Moss for 2 years and now Gronk )....Rodgers also says that Brady is the best...no player would claim they're the best..they would get crucified in social media..He's the GOAT...whether we like it or not....

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000787722/article/even-aaron-rodgers-admits-tom-brady-is-the-goat

 

He has 1 title since the cheating scandals and it took an implosion from the Falcons to get it.  Brady will always be associated with deflated balls and cheating.  I don't deny that he is talented and an all time great, but he will NEVER be the greatest because of all the cheating and controversies surrounding him.  Had he, his coach, his team, and entire organization not been busted multiple times for cheating and he did this all legitimately, yes, he may very well be the best.  But he didn't do it with all of the crap that follows him so we'll never know.

Edited September 15, 2018 by sven233

[Iron Maiden]

Just now, sven233 said:

 

He has 1 title since the cheating scandals and it to an implosion from the Falcons to get it.  Brady will always be associated with deflated balls and cheating.

I get it ...you hate him...we're Bills fans...it's normal... BTW, deflategate was just silly....if you really believe that it affected the game, I'm not sure what to tell you....and he won vs Seattle with " regular " balls.....and he crushed Indy 45-7...he would have beat them with a freaking beach bal....if NFL players are mostly saying he's the GOAT, that tells me that the cheating stuff is way overblown.....again..the players themselves are claiming he's the best ever...that's tells me all I need to know...that.... and all the rings and records he has...

[sven233]

1 minute ago, Iron Maiden said:

I get it ...you hate him...we're Bills fans...it's normal... BTW, deflategate was just silly....if you really believe that it affected the game, I'm not sure what to tell you....and he won vs Seattle with " regular " balls.....and he crushed Indy 45-7...he would have beat them with a freaking beach bal....if NFL players are mostly saying he's the GOAT, that tells me that the cheating stuff is way overblown.....again..the players themselves are claiming he's the best ever...that's tells me all I need to know...that.... and all the rings and records he has...

 

Hey, you can be up in his junk all you want........  Put him at #1.  Just make sure to put an * next to his name.  That's all.

[Iron Maiden]

3 minutes ago, sven233 said:

 

Hey, you can be up in his junk all you want........  Put him at #1.  Just make sure to put an * next to his name.  That's all.

I respect your right to be wrong buddy.....And again...players are putting him at # 1...not just me...

Edited September 15, 2018 by Iron Maiden

[sven233]

3 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

I respect your right to be wrong buddy.....And again...players are putting him at # 1...not just me...

 

Players aren't the only ones that matter.  This whole topic was about our opinions about the top 5.  He makes mine.  But can never be #1 with all the cheating and scandals.  I, and most people, don't respect cheating.

Edited September 15, 2018 by sven233

[Helpmenow]

Jim zorn, George Blanda ,Frank Ryan, John huarte  and bill Munson 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Helpmenow

[VW82]

The GOAT QB discussion is more interesting to me. It would seem the consensus is Brady is now the guy. Two questions:

1. How can Brady be the GOAT if he was never really considered to be the best QB at any point in his career? Manning was the guy early, then Rodgers for the last several years.
2. How do you separate Brady's greatness from that of the Pats organization, and specifically Belichick? 

Further to the second point, I'll make a cross sport comparison. By any statistical measure, Martin Brodeur is the greatest goalie of the modern era. But how can we call him the GOAT when Hasek was the much better player during their respective primes? Brodeur greatly benefited from an institutional advantage with the Devils whereas Hasek was forced to carry the Sabres every year just to make the playoffs. I'd argue it's the same with Brady and Manning. 

 

Both Brady and Brodeur clearly distinguished themselves individually during the latter stages of their careers but I'd argue their GOAT candidacies are much more reliant on longevity and strength of their teams/organizations over the years than people are willing to admit.

Edited September 16, 2018 by VW82

[KD in CA]

9 hours ago, boater said:

I'd rate Kelly, Montana and Marino highly for the fact their accomplishments occurred when there were fewer protections of the QB. They were man handled pretty good.

 

Yup;  people completely discount that aspect of the game.  The NFL completely altered the rules to favor modern QBs and no one has benefited more than Brady.  Put him on the Pats in the 80s/90s against Bruce Smith and the Jets Sack Exchange or playing in the NFC East in those days and he wouldn't be nearly so magical.

 

But you can only compare against your contemporaries so in that regard Brady is the best of this era.

[greeneblitz]

1. Manning

2. Brady

3. Montana

4. Marino

5. Favre

6. Elway

7. Young

8. Brees

9. Rodgers

10. Kelly

[SoCal Deek]

Some of the negative comments about Brady truly are stunning! Geez people, I realize he destroys the Bills twice a year...but come on! 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, VW82 said:

The GOAT QB discussion is more interesting to me. It would seem the consensus is Brady is now the guy. Two questions:

1. How can Brady be the GOAT if he was never really considered to be the best QB at any point in his career? 

 

 

 

Huh?

[VW82]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Huh?

 

When would you say he's been considered the consensus best QB? Despite his amazing 2007, I think if you could go back and poll people at the time most would have still picked Manning to start a new team. It was Rodgers who was the best player in 2011 when Manning was out with those neck surgeries, and then Manning came back with two MVP seasons right after, followed by Rodgers winning it again. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think most would have taken Rodgers over Brady these last three years as the top guy despite Rodgers's injuries and brutal teams he's had to carry to the playoffs. Brady's been fantastic and has probably been the second best QB over that period but he's also been playing on the best team in the league and for the best coach. He's had that advantage for pretty much his whole career.

 

Has there ever been a player in any other sport who was considered the GOAT and yet was never really the consensus best player at his position for an extended period? I think It's a fair question. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by VW82

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

When would you say he's been considered the consensus best QB? Despite his amazing 2007, I think if you could go back and poll people at the time most would have still picked Manning to start a new team. It was Rodgers who was the best player in 2011 when Manning was out with those neck surgeries, and then Manning came back with two MVP seasons right after, followed by Rodgers winning it again. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think most would have taken Rodgers over Brady these last three years as the top guy despite Rodgers's injuries and brutal teams he's had to carry to the playoffs. Brady's been fantastic and has probably been the second best QB but he's also playing on the best team and for the best coach. 

 

Has there ever been a player in any other sport who was considered the GOAT and yet was never really the consensus best player at his position for an extended period? I think It's a fair question. 

Maybe it's just me, but I have never thought Rodgers was better than Brady. I'm not sure if he would make my top 10.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, sven233 said:

 

Uh.....no.  They barely won any of their early titles.  Any type of cheating could have swayed those games.  Also, they were doing this cheating all along before they got caught.  Who knows how long they were cheating before they got caught and who knows what else they are doing that they haven't been called on yet.  His whole career is tainted. Period.

 

And the quotes around "cheating" are not necessary.  They are proven cheaters (multiple times), so no need to couch it.  They cheated and didn't pay a big enough price for it.

 

Like I said, over exaggerated and over sensationalized.  I get it, we are Bills fans so the opinions are gonna be stronger, but doesn’t change the fact for me that Brady is either one or 2 on the GOAT list.

[sven233]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Like I said, over exaggerated and over sensationalized.  I get it, we are Bills fans so the opinions are gonna be stronger, but doesn’t change the fact for me that Brady is either one or 2 on the GOAT list.

 

The NFL DESTROYED the evidence......  The fact is, the whole thing is A LOT WORSE than the public was told.  Otherwise they would not have destroyed everything  Sounds like you're a Pats* fan on a Bills board.  No other fan of any team would try as hard as you have to defend cheating.

Edited September 16, 2018 by sven233

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Josh Allen.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Josh Allen.

 

 

Don't you think he needs to play at least one full game before he leapfrogs John Skelton?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 hours ago, BigPappy said:

Anyone that has Brady on their list is mental. The guy is a cheating POS scumbag who plays for a cheating POS scumbag. He doesn't  deserve to be a member of the NFL let alone in the discussion for Top 5 QB's.

Been to 8 Super Bowls, 4 more than Montana and 3 more than Elway.

 

He’s played almost half of his career in the Super Bowl and 75% of his career at the AFC Title Game. 

 

Its absurd and petty to let a couple couple deflated balls and Jets hand signals invalidate 18 years of complete dominance. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

7 hours ago, The Senator said:

 

That is true, but Starr is the only QB to win 3 consecutive Superbowls.

Only 2 Super Bowl wins. #1 and # 2

[VW82]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Maybe it's just me, but I have never thought Rodgers was better than Brady. I'm not sure if he would make my top 10.

 

To be clear, I'm not talking about Brady vs. Rodgers all time, only which guy was the best player in any given year. You don't think Rodgers has been a top 10 QB over the last three years? Not sure what sport you're watching. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by VW82

[oldmanfan]

I had Brady, Montana, Unitas, Graham, and a tie between Rogers and Manning.  In retrospect I'd take Manning out.  Came up short in big games a lot.

[row_33]

Wow this turned ugly and it is very boring as well

 

29 rattan lashes for this crime

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Don't you think he needs to play at least one full game before he leapfrogs John Skelton?

 

Nope, he's already there, GOBILLS!!! (Delusional fan speak)

 

 

[VW82]

I think the knock on Manning underperforming in big playoff games is fair. Manning's record as the higher seed is very misleading though. Go back and show me which of those games he had the better team. Outside of maybe one or two of the Denver losses I promise you you're not going to find many. The reason he was the top seed is because he was so much better than every other QB during his prime that he drastically improved the win totals of those Colts teams. Then when they got to the playoffs and faced very good defenses from the Steelers, Pats, Chargers, Jets, etc., he was just ok and it wasn't enough to overcome the fact that their team wasn't as good (outside of him). I always thought Dungy was so overrated. Colts were consistently outcoached in the playoffs.

 

The early Pats losses will always be fishy. They seemed to know exactly what the Colts were doing in those games, and they're on record sneaking into walk through practices and taping teams during that period.  

Edited September 16, 2018 by VW82

[Rico]

10 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

To be clear, I'm not talking about Brady vs. Rodgers all time, only which guy was the best player in any given year. You don't think Rodgers has been a top 10 QB over the last three years? Not sure what sport you're watching. 

No, I meant Rodgers would not make my top 10 all-time. Even if Rodgers was having a big year, I still would take rather have had Brady (with the one exception being the Matt Cassel season).

[BigDingus]

Top 5 in terms of best on-field play & careers? Not pure talent, just in what they did:

1. Tom Brady

2. Joe Montana

3. Peyton Manning

4. Johnny Unitas

5. Aaron Rodgers

 

In terms of most talented, best pure passers? Aaron Rodgers & Peyton Manning would be 1 & 2 respectively. 

[VW82]

15 minutes ago, Rico said:

No, I meant Rodgers would not make my top 10 all-time. Even if Rodgers was having a big year, I still would take rather have had Brady (with the one exception being the Matt Cassel season).

 

Yeah I would have Brady ahead of Rodgers all time too. But I do think Rodgers is the better player now and has been for some time. He has a higher ceiling IMO, and I would put him top 10 all time. Brady has had the better career though, no question.  

Edited September 16, 2018 by VW82

[Kelly the Dog]

It's hard to argue with Brady's actual play. But if you put Rodgers on the Pats he would still be an absolute stud. And if you put Brady on a couple of those Packer teams with crappy blocking he would likely get killed and may even suck, or at least not play nearly as well as Rodgers did under those circumstances.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, VW82 said:

 

When would you say he's been considered the consensus best QB?Despite his amazing 2007, I think if you could go back and poll people at the time most would have still picked Manning to start a new team. It was Rodgers who was the best player in 2011 when Manning was out with those neck surgeries, and then Manning came back with two MVP seasons right after, followed by Rodgers winning it again. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think most would have taken Rodgers over Brady these last three years as the top guy despite Rodgers's injuries and brutal teams he's had to carry to the playoffs. Brady's been fantastic and has probably been the second best QB over that period but he's also been playing on the best team in the league and for the best coach. He's had that advantage for pretty much his whole career.

 

Has there ever been a player in any other sport who was considered the GOAT and yet was never really the consensus best player at his position for an extended period? I think It's a fair question. 

 

 

Well....2007 comes to mind (are you serious with those 2 sentences back to back?).

 

Anyway...best team in the league, you say?  Is it because of all of the HOFers Brady has played with on offense?  Other than Gronk (and Brady played in 5 and won 4 SBs without him), how many future HOF WRs did Brady and the pats win SBs with?  How about RBs?  Manningnplayed for years on absolutely stacked offensive rosters and came up short countless times.  Wan't Dungy a HOF coach?

 

Look Rodgers is a top 3 QB right now and has been for several years.  But 2010 was a lifetime ago in this league.  Brady takes a constantly churning roster and goes to SBs.   Rodgers doesn't.  Brady is more durable as well.  As many here have already pointed out, he's been a "consensus best QB" for years.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, sven233 said:

 

The NFL DESTROYED the evidence......  The fact is, the whole thing is A LOT WORSE than the public was told.  Otherwise they would not have destroyed everything  Sounds like you're a Pats* fan on a Bills board.  No other fan of any team would try as hard as you have to defend cheating.

 

Like I said, over exaggerated and over sensationalized.  I love how I’m a Pats fan because I don’t agee with you lol.  This topic has nothing to do with Bills fandom, let alone Pats fandom.  But if someone around here doesn’t think the way you do it just means we are Pats fans?  ???

[TwistofFate]

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Tom Brady

Joe Montana

Dan Marino

[TwistofFate]

Anyone who puts Rodgers over Brady is delusional. 

 

Rodgers has choked over and over under pressure.   The dude has Benn in the league over 13 years and has 12 4th quarter comebacks.  Meanwhile Brady has triple that. 

 

It's easy to coast to a win when you have the lead.   Not so easy when you are the one trying to make a comeback. 

 

I can honestly say, many many times I've seen Brady with the ball, with under 2 minutes, and said, you gave him too much time, as he masterfully moved his team into scoring position to win another one 

 

I've never said that about Rodgers.  In fact, I've said the opposite. 

[BigDingus]

I always hated when commentators or "experts" threw out "put Rodgers on any of those Patriots teams, and he'd easily have 5 or more rings!"

How quick do these people forget that Brady's biggest feather in his cap other than SB wins is the fact that he's usually surrounded with little big name talent, and castoffs from other teams that seemingly become different people when playing with Brady.

And the one time Kraft went all out & surrounded Brady with talent? He had an All-Time great year, destroying records left & right, and they went 18-0 until choking against the Giants (not much fault of Brady's though). 

The running joke has been that you could plug in anyone around Brady, and as long as he's able to remain upright he'll still lead the team to the Super Bowl. Rodgers very well might be able to do the same, but it's not as simple as many want to make it. Who knows if he'd really elevate the people around him to the same level as Brady? Who knows if he'd pull off as many last minute wins or gaming winning drives (though he has done that plenty). And who knows if he'd thrive as much as Brady in Belichick's system, or if he'd be anywhere close to as clutch.

One thing I do know, Brady has him beat by a wide margin in what he's actually done on the field. And unlike what many other QB's of dynasties had, with a plethora of all-timers & Hall of Famers, Brady has largely done so as the one core piece plus a rotation of role players. Rodgers reminds me more of a better Marino, while Brady reminds me of a better Montana.

[sven233]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Like I said, over exaggerated and over sensationalized.  I love how I’m a Pats fan because I don’t agee with you lol.  This topic has nothing to do with Bills fandom, let alone Pats fandom.  But if someone around here doesn’t think the way you do it just means we are Pats fans?  ???

 

No.....  It just means that no other fan of any team has gone to the lengths you have to defend cheating.  But hey....maybe you cheat at things all the time in your life and accept it just like they do.  That's fine.  To each his own.  I just don't respect cheaters no matter how "exaggerated" you think things are.  Fact is, it is worse than you want to believe.