Could the new "Helmet Rule" ruin football?

[ColoradoBills]

As time has gone by in football and improvements to the helmet have happened players have been dropping their heads more and more.

This rule is intended to curb this trend.

I do hope it doesn't go overboard with the ref's but I don't think so.

 

 

 

[Figster]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Not really. It's pretty obvious when guys drop their face. I can see it from the stands/on tv.

 

I will agree with the worry that this gives the refs another way to control the outcome of games. However, this has been needed for a long time, and as I mentioned the players had a chance to self-regulate, but failed to do so.

 

 

They wont call it all season like they did last night. The preseason is the time that new rules get over-called in order to set the precedent and get players serious about it. You might see some in the first couple weeks of regular season, but then it will drop off once the players take it upon themselves to correct their behavior.

By dropping your face do you mean just leaning forward because the more parallel to the ground a player becomes which happens on every play the more impossible it becomes to keep your head up.

 

I'll ask again and its a simple question. 

 

How is a player suppossed to dive forward to make a tackle and keep your head up?

 

You can't answer it because it can't be done just like theres not a thing a defender can do when he goes to make a tackle and the ball carrier adjusts his flight path at the last second.

[DCOrange]

For those that are reading through this thread but didn't catch the game last night, someone compiled a video of the penalties last night (though I believe the last two were actually called for defenseless receiver penalties rather than the new helmet rule but the commentators didn't realize that).

 

 

[RaoulDuke79]

12 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

They wont call it all season like they did last night. The preseason is the time that new rules get over-called in order to set the precedent and get players serious about it. You might see some in the first couple weeks of regular season, but then it will drop off once the players take it upon themselves to correct their behavior.

I wouldn't bet on it. They can't even determine what a catch is. Now they have to figure out what is and isn't a legitimate tackle. In addition , being that this is a safety issue I'd be willing to bet they're going to err on the side of caution and lean towards calling the 50/50 calls penalties. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by RaoulDuke79

[DrDawkinstein]

56 minutes ago, Figster said:

By dropping your face do you mean just leaning forward because the more parallel to the ground a player becomes which happens on every play the more impossible it becomes to keep your head up.

 

I'll ask again and its a simple question. 

 

How is a player suppossed to dive forward to make a tackle and keep your head up?

 

You can't answer it because it can't be done just like theres not a thing a defender can do when he goes to make a tackle and the ball carrier adjusts his flight path at the last second.

 

"By dropping your face do you mean just leaning forward" No, you can lean forward and keep your head up. Try it right now. Look at something straight ahead of you, lean your upper body forward, but keep your face up and looking at the object. It IS possible. And is proper tackling technique that prevents paralysis and other injuries.

 

You keep talking about "diving forward". Tacklers dont "dive", you are not supposed to leave your feet. You keep your head up, eyes through the thighs, initiate contact and keep your feet driving.

 

Watch the video I posted which will teach you proper technique. All of your questions about how to tackle are addressed in it. Until you know how to tackle, please dont debate tackling rules.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by DrDawkinstein

[row_33]

2 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

You're going to hear about this every week all season if they call it like they did last night.

 

college has been unable to enforce it consistently or with a lick of common sense in the context of the game

 

 

 

when i'm finally fed up with the way the NFL is going and stop watching permanently, it won't be with much sadness, could happen this season....

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

18 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

For those that are reading through this thread but didn't catch the game last night, someone compiled a video of the penalties last night (though I believe the last two were actually called for defenseless receiver penalties rather than the new helmet rule but the commentators didn't realize that).

 

 

The second penalty in the video is what I hope gets called in the regular season and the other ones in that video were called "because its pre season"

[RaoulDuke79]

7 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

college has been unable to enforce it consistently or with a lick of common sense in the context of the game

 

 

 

when i'm finally fed up with the way the NFL is going and stop watching permanently, it won't be with much sadness, could happen this season....

 

I'm right there with ya. Between the commercial interruptions and all the political nonsense, my interest is already waning. I'm nearly as excited for the start of the EPL as I am the NFL.

Edited August 3, 2018 by RaoulDuke79

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

I'm right there with ya. Between the commercial interruptions and all the political nonsense, my interest is already waning. 

 

 

i don't gamble any more and the NFL talent level, or maybe it's the competitiveness,  has plummeted over the last decade,

 

one huge factor for me is that college isn't developing the immortals that we used to take for granted.

 

 

 

 

 

the worst NCAA helmet thing was a game where after the whistle a d-lineman was shoved by an opponent and fell to the ground, falling backwards his helmet touched the helmet of the QB on the ground

 

so a defensive captain is hit with ejection and suspension right on the spot... and they took a long time showing it dozens of times, totally outside the realm of common sense

 

 

 

[Figster]

32 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

"By dropping your face do you mean just leaning forward" No, you can lean forward and keep your head up. Try it right now. Look at something straight ahead of you, lean your upper body forward, but keep your face up and looking at the object. It IS possible. And is proper tackling technique that prevents paralysis and other injuries.

 

You keep talking about "diving forward". Tacklers dont "dive", you are not supposed to leave your feet. You keep your head up, eyes through the thighs, initiate contact and keep your feet driving.

 

Watch the video I posted which will teach you proper technique. All of your questions about how to tackle are addressed in it. Until you know how to tackle, please dont debate tackling rules.

 

edit: I dont get the "haha" tag. Instead of learning something about the game, you just scoff and dismiss it?

thanks for taking the time to explain and the haha was more to do with the rule then your explanation.( removed)

Edited August 3, 2018 by Figster

[Dablitzkrieg]

14 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

college has been unable to enforce it consistently or with a lick of common sense in the context of the game

 

 

 

when i'm finally fed up with the way the NFL is going and stop watching permanently, it won't be with much sadness, could happen this season....

 

This is funny

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/29/2018 at 3:21 PM, #34fan said:

-Or, make it mostly unwatchable?  See the details on it here.

I'm all for player safety, but at some point you have to accept that "full contact" means exactly that.  What's next? -Tying hands?

 

IMO, it's all going to depend upon how consistently the refs can enforce and whether there is post-game film review to identify plays that weren't called but should have been.

[Figster]

11 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

This is funny

Its funny and its not, 

 

 

[whatdrought]

This is just asking for the refs to continue to influence games. 

 

I cant believe the owners agreed to this.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 7/29/2018 at 1:46 PM, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Players have managed to play the game for decades without launching at opponents head-first like a missile to bring them down. This needed to be curbed a long time ago. 

So true. Maybe go back and teach players the correct way to tackle. With your arms. The NFL has become pinball with players bouncing off each other all the time. Or making perfect head contact and getting paralyzed. 

[row_33]

15 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

This is just asking for the refs to continue to influence games. 

 

I cant believe the owners agreed to this.

 

 

we got to see various means of helmet hitting last night

 

the first was a launch helmet-first well after the man was held up and not advancing, a timely whistle would be required when the play is clearly over

 

the second was the receiver standing up tall over the middle when contact was coming, not much the D can do with that

 

the third in the EZ was a lined up cheapshot on a vulnerable receiver, the main reason for this kind of concern in the game

 

 

 

[Figster]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So true. Maybe go back and teach players the correct way to tackle. With your arms. The NFL has become pinball with players bouncing off each other all the time. Or making perfect head contact and getting paralyzed. 

Equipment upgrades are a better solution IMO.

 

New safer helmet designs are hitting the market.

 

Flexible shock absorber could be used at the back of the helmet area connecting to the shoulder pads to help prevent neck injury IMO. 

[That's No Moon]

12 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

So far, so good in the HoF Game. They've called it a couple times now, and it's been justified each time. These players have had more than enough time to go back to proper tackling technique, and refused to do so on their own. So now it's going to be regulated and penalized, as it should be.

 

Dont drop your head. And definitely dont drop your head and use your dropped helmet as the main point of contact. It's as simple as that, and how tackling is supposed to be done. Eyes through the thighs!

 

 

And I also saw a play that was the scenario I suggested.  Seam route into the endzone to a tall player with a ball thrown high over the trailing DB.  The safety came over and hit him in the chest with a shoulder to break up the play.  Flag thrown. How precisely do you defend that play?  The corner had good coverage and the safety rotated over. The only thing you can do now is try to play the ball which again gives a massive advantage to the offense.

[row_33]

14 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

And I also saw a play that was the scenario I suggested.  Seam route into the endzone to a tall player with a ball thrown high over the trailing DB.  The safety came over and hit him in the chest with a shoulder to break up the play.  Flag thrown. How precisely do you defend that play?  The corner had good coverage and the safety rotated over. The only thing you can do now is try to play the ball which again gives a massive advantage to the offense.

 

there's enough textbook coaches on here to tell an NFL DB how to make every single type of tackle out there

 

 

 

could one of them PLEASE go up to a real NFL DB and start a conversation on the proper way to tackle?

 

film it?

 

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

there's enough textbook coaches on here to tell an NFL DB how to make every single type of tackle out there

 

 

 

could one of them PLEASE go up to a real NFL DB and start a conversation on the proper way to tackle?

 

film it?

 

That's not what I asked.  If you can't make a play on the receiver in the endzone to break up the play how do you defend that play other than breaking up the ball?  Simply tackling the guy isn't good enough, they still score. Saying you have to make a play on the ball gives a HUGE advantage to the offense in that they can run 6'5" receivers or 6'7" TEs out there who are guarded by 6' DBs and if the DB makes too much contact with the receiver he will get flagged for DPI anyway.

 

Any team that isn't exploiting the intermediate to deep middle of the field with large players now is foolish.

[CowgirlsFan]

Appears we are headed to high scoring games because everyone will be afraid to tackle.

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

And I also saw a play that was the scenario I suggested.  Seam route into the endzone to a tall player with a ball thrown high over the trailing DB.  The safety came over and hit him in the chest with a shoulder to break up the play.  Flag thrown. How precisely do you defend that play?  The corner had good coverage and the safety rotated over. The only thing you can do now is try to play the ball which again gives a massive advantage to the offense.

 

All of the penalties from last night are in a single video in this thread. Could you point out exactly which play you are referring to? Sincerely asking since Im interested in all of this.

 

edit: here's the vid. let me know the time stamp of which play you are talking about.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by DrDawkinstein

[CommonCents]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

All of the penalties from last night are in a single video in this thread. Could you point out exactly which play you are referring to? Sincerely asking since Im interested in all of this.

He described the play on Hurst.

[DrDawkinstein]

10 minutes ago, CowgirlsFan said:

Appears we are headed to high scoring games because everyone will be afraid to tackle.

 

Or they could just tackle correctly like they did from the start of football to about 1995.

4 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

He described the play on Hurst.

 

I want to make sure we're talking about the same play. get me a timestamp. please and thanks.

 

ok, i think that's the one at about 1:30. Yeah, that one is borderline and probably a case of preseason over-officiating. He launches up helmet first on a defenseless receiver. I'll give you guys that play probably shouldnt get flagged, but it's close.

Edited August 3, 2018 by DrDawkinstein

[Figster]

1 hour ago, CowgirlsFan said:

Appears we are headed to high scoring games because everyone will be afraid to tackle.

and heres the thing Cowgirl, football is a game of split second read and react/ bang, bang plays so when you start manipulating the game in a way that causes hesitation in an athlete that is accustomed to doing what comes natual players get hurt in my humble opinion. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Figster

[billsintaiwan]

Ach. If there was something the game didn't need it was a new penalty based on an official's split second judgment. Plays happen too fast for there to be any consistency in officiating. 

 

Call spearing when there is spearing.

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Or they could just tackle correctly like they did from the start of football to about 1995.

 

I want to make sure we're talking about the same play. get me a timestamp. please and thanks.

 

ok, i think that's the one at about 1:30. Yeah, that one is borderline and probably a case of preseason over-officiating. He launches up helmet first on a defenseless receiver. I'll give you guys that play probably shouldnt get flagged, but it's close.

1:30 is the beginning. 

 

Here's the thing.  Jump.  You just launched yourself headfirst, it's impossible to jump and NOT do that. 

 

The player was in the process of jumping to make a play, he hadn't even left the ground yet when contact was made.  When contact was made (1:59) his head was off to the side and he hit the player primarily with his shoulder in the chest. There is glancing contact between the facemask and the receiver's arm.

 

How ELSE is the safety supposed to do his job on this play?  I'm asking seriously because unless there is a legitimate answer they just broke the game with this rule.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

1:30 is the beginning. 

 

Here's the thing.  Jump.  You just launched yourself headfirst, it's impossible to jump and NOT do that. 

 

The player was in the process of jumping to make a play, he hadn't even left the ground yet when contact was made.  When contact was made (1:59) his head was off to the side and he hit the player primarily with his shoulder in the chest. There is glancing contact between the facemask and the receiver's arm.

 

How ELSE is the safety supposed to do his job on this play?  I'm asking seriously because unless there is a legitimate answer they just broke the game with this rule.

 

 

 

Already admitted that one was borderline, and probably caught up in the preseason over-officiating. They didnt really specify on the call, but it could have been Defenseless Receiver too, which has been around for a couple years.

 

That said, he wasnt going for the ball with his jump he was going for the man. He went high when he didnt need to.Had he broke down, and lead with his face and shoulder into the body, he would have equally destroyed the receiver and broke up the pass, and it would have been a much safer and legal play.

 

These guys are just going to have to get used to going back to the way it was pre-1995.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

28 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Already admitted that one was borderline, and probably caught up in the preseason over-officiating. They didnt really specify on the call, but it could have been Defenseless Receiver too, which has been around for a couple years.

 

That said, he wasnt going for the ball with his jump he was going for the man. He went high when he didnt need to.Had he broke down, and lead with his face and shoulder into the body, he would have equally destroyed the receiver and broke up the pass, and it would have been a much safer and legal play.

 

These guys are just going to have to get used to going back to the way it was pre-1995.

I'm really pissed about  the leading with the helmet' call on Jerry Hughes on 10/29 against the Pat's.   Who calls that in the 4th quarter with the game on the line?? And with Hughes not even being on the field it seems even worse!  This is #$@@ing bull#!@$. 

 

(just want to get a jump on it)

[DrDawkinstein]

23 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I'm really pissed about  the leading with the helmet' call on Jerry Hughes on 10/29 against the Pat's.   Who calls that in the 4th quarter with the game on the line?? And with Hughes not even being on the field it seems even worse!  This is #$@@ing bull#!@$. 

 

(just want to get a jump on it)

 

Yep, as I said, the only part of the rule I dont like is that it's another rule for the officials to use to help determine the outcome of games. But as far as the details of the rule goes, I'm for it.

 

However, officials have been giving games to the Pats long before this rule, so nothing changed there.

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Good way to completely ruin the game. 

 

 

It's absolutely ridiculous . I can't wrap my head around how they would think the positive outweighs the negative with this rule

[reddogblitz]

On 7/29/2018 at 1:46 PM, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Players have managed to play the game for decades without launching at opponents head-first like a missile to bring them down. This needed to be curbed a long time ago. 

 

Really?  When?

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

These guys are just going to have to get used to going back to the way it was pre-1995.

FWIW, leading with your face is leading with your helmet the way the rule is called now.  I also think players have been hitting this way a lot longer than 1995.

 

Jack Tatum - basically the entire film is a penalty now

Ronnie Lott

Dennis Smith - again almost the entire Top 10 is illegal now

Chuck Cecil

Chuck Bednarik - one of the most famous plays in NFL history - penalty today

 

I could go on and on.  Let's not wax poetic about the good old days when football was clean. It wasn't.  

and also FWIW, nobody has told me what the safety in last nights game was SUPPOSED to do other than let the guy score a TD in front of him.

Edited August 3, 2018 by That's No Moon

[DrDawkinstein]

9 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

FWIW, leading with your face is leading with your helmet the way the rule is called now.  I also think players have been hitting this way a lot longer than 1995.

 

Jack Tatum - basically the entire film is a penalty now

Ronnie Lott

Dennis Smith - again almost the entire Top 10 is illegal now

Chuck Cecil

Chuck Bednarik - one of the most famous plays in NFL history - penalty today

 

I could go on and on.  Let's not wax poetic about the good old days when football was clean. It wasn't.  

 

To the bold: No it isnt. It is specifically about dropping your face and lowering your helmet.

 

And yes, there have been some who hit like that.  Thanks for pointing out Tatum, who is known as the dirtiest player in league history and not in the Hall of Fame because his style of hitting PARALYZED Darryl Stingly. And now that everyone else plays like that, you're surprised they are trying to stop it? Ryan Shazier paralyzed himself last year. Our own Kevin Everett dropped his head going into contact and paralyzed himself. THAT is what we are talking about here.

 

You pull out a handful of players over 60 years, but now that style is the norm. And it cant be. The game, and more importantly the players, wont survive it.

 

 

10 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

FWIW, nobody has told me what the safety in last nights game was SUPPOSED to do other than let the guy score a TD in front of him.

 

I told you already:

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Had he broke down, and lead with his face and shoulder into the body, he would have equally destroyed the receiver and broke up the pass, and it would have been a much safer and legal play. 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by DrDawkinstein

[reddogblitz]

Leather helmets?

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You pull out a handful of players

I could have listed tons more. Tons. 

 

Going back to the play in question, the safety didnt drop his head. He hit the player with his shoulder and his head up and got flagged anyway.

 

They are crippling the game with regulation and more and more games will be decided by officials rather than players. Football is already a substantially different game than I grew up watching, before 1995.

[Thrivefourfive]

To the OP - Yes, too many penalties will turn me off real quickly.

 

It’s already an unwatchable game. The last 5 mins of a game is ‘okay’; the last 5 of an important game or the playoffs are very good; but my god...a 3.5 hr regular season Bills game at Cincinnati is dreadfully slow, and just not entertaining.

 

Commercials are ruining the game to a tipping point, and I’m getting sick just thinking about more time delays and constant replays and talking heads discussing helmet penalties. I think the NFL and TV broadcasts honestly believe that we fans like that crap. We don’t!

 

The “situational” sports edipemdic (6 time-outs in the NBA; specialist relievers in MLB) is nauseating. The NHL still does it right. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

I could have listed tons more. Tons. 

 

Going back to the play in question, the safety didnt drop his head. He hit the player with his shoulder and his head up and got flagged anyway.

 

They are crippling the game with regulation and more and more games will be decided by officials rather than players. Football is already a substantially different game than I grew up watching, before 1995.

 

Are you not reading my posts? Serious question. Because I've addressed this 3 times now.

[HardyBoy]

On 7/29/2018 at 4:53 PM, #34fan said:

 

Putting your head down is kind of how your body naturally protects your eyes and vital organs from impact.

 

To me its like trying to tell a shark not to roll its eyes back when it attacks... Eons of natural selection has perfected this reflex... Shazier's injury, as awful as it was, is just

 

another "wrong place, wrong time" event we have to face sometimes... He was trying to hit a moving target, and something went wrong.

 

No, this is what something looks like that has evolved to instinctively lead with the head. Humans drop their heads on impact to make themselves as small as possible to avoid contact.

 

 

[#34fan]

13 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

No, this is what something looks like that has evolved to instinctively lead with the head. Humans drop their heads on impact to make themselves as small as possible to avoid contact.

 

 

 

These horny mountain-goats evolved to be led by their c**ks….  They just use their heads to sort out disagreements.