Nate Peterman 2017 All-22 Analysis by BR

[Doc]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Now I'm confused because this article says he threw 49 MPH:

 

http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

And other articles are evenly split between saying he threw 53 or 49. So now I'm not sure what his velocity was at the combine. Weird.

 

Yeah I thought it was 49 and then revised to 51. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah I thought it was 49 and then revised to 51. 

 

...prolly a tailwind.............

[Punching Bag]

On 6/28/2018 at 4:08 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

More than anyone else in the position group, Peterman exemplifies Schrödinger’s QB."

 

I'd be willing to have him in place of the cat. I am sure he does not have 9 lives which makes original experiment hard to determine results.  Really if experiment was about "Schrödinger's hamster" would there be as much attention to it?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

 

I'd be willing to have him in place of the cat. I am sure he does not have 9 lives which makes original experiment hard to determine results.  Really if experiment was about "Schrödinger's hamster" would there be as much attention to it?

 

....the only thing I know is that it appears that the kid is working hard in minis, OTA's to get better every day.........sure the reports were encouraging but "live ammo" is a different ballgame......a 5th becoming an NFL starter?....Brady's ascension from the 6th to his era GOAT is an anomaly.....IF he could become a reliable backup ala Frank Reich and be a spot starter IF called upon, hard to deny the "successful career" label.....

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Now I'm confused because this article says he threw 49 MPH:

 

http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

And other articles are evenly split between saying he threw 53 or 49. So now I'm not sure what his velocity was at the combine. Weird.

 

At some level, because the numbers aren’t uniform, I’d ask how many times you seen him throw an out on a rope, or zip one into a tight window on a seam or....

 

this can be college, camps, not just his 50 some odd drop backs. 

 

You dont need to toss a ton of them but down 5 with 3 minutes left you have to take a risk and wing it in some tight windows and he really hasn’t shown enough zip yet. 

[transplantbillsfan]

14 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

Notice the crickets since you posted this?

He's nowhere to be found lol. Props to you, good post!

 

Who is "he?"

 

Me?

 

BuffaloHokie and Royale already directly addressed this post. Was I required to respond to it, too?

 

Footwork and lower body mechanics can obviously play a role in increasing ball velocity, but it also almost completely disregards the upper body. The more you're forced to rely on your lower body mechanics, the more you'reforced to be a wizard in the pocket to find room to utilize those lower body mechanics to transfer to the upper body and directly into an increase in ball velocity.

 

Brady is a wizard. He knows how to move around.

 

Do you think Peterman looked like he had that kind of pocket presence last year?

 

And if he can't, we gotta go back to making the arm itself stronger. 

 

Yes, mechanics matter, but arm strength clearly does, too.

[Bing Bong]

5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Footwork and lower body mechanics can obviously play a role in increasing ball velocity, but it also almost completely disregards the upper body. The more you're forced to rely on your lower body mechanics, the more you'reforced to be a wizard in the pocket to find room to utilize those lower body mechanics to transfer to the upper body and directly into an increase in ball velocity.

It's also decision making. regardless of the soft pass he telegraphed it to boot. Not to mention him tossing up those picks. No such things as the "right" throw if those players running free after 5 seconds are a result of the defense blitzing.. begging you to throw that in a collapsing pocket..

 

on top of poor mechanics = picks DBs rarely see in an NFL game.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

It's also decision making. regardless of the soft pass he telegraphed it to boot. Not to mention him tossing up those picks. No such things as the "right" throw if those players running free after 5 seconds are a result of the defense blitzing.. begging you to throw that in a collapsing pocket..

 

on top of poor mechanics = picks DBs rarely see in an NFL game.

 

Sorry but DB's see picks like the ones Peterman threw all the time (maybe not all in one half...).  And from elite QBs no less, much less 5th round rookies making their first-ever start. 

[transplantbillsfan]

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This spreadsheet tracks all the ball velocity measurements since 2008:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/htmlview?usp=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#

 

Traditionally you want to be 55 MPH or above. Peterman was at 53 MPH. Although I'll point out a few QBs that had under 55 MPH and have never been questioned on arm strength:

 

Dak Prescott - 54

Deshaun Watson - 49

Tyrod Taylor - 50

 

Even if you're a staunch believer in 55 and up, that means you think Peterman needs to increase his ball velocity by 2 MPH to be a starting NFL QB. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that that can be done.

 

I've seen those ball velocity tests at the combine and talk about sheer poppycock.

 

I've watched Taylor throw and I've watched Peterman throw. Taylor is noticeably the stronger passer in terms of ball velocity alone. Not just now. Out of college, too. 

 

I mean whatever you think or thought of Taylor, c'mon man, the guy should undeniably be looked at as having an NFL arm. Definitely not the same for Peterman.

 

Just look at their scouting reports, arm strength stuff only in overview and strengths followed by entire weakness:

 

Taylor--

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/tyrod-taylor?id=2495240

OVERVIEW

He has a quick release and a strong arm

STRENGTHS

Has above average arm strength and flashes the ability to fit the ball into tight windows on short to intermediate routes

WEAKNESSES

Does not possess adequate height and too many of his passes are knocked down at the line. Sloppy footwork prevents him from stepping into throws making him an erratic passer. Locks onto receivers and often telegraphs his throws. Struggles breaking down coverage and makes too many ill-advised throws.

 

Taylor has nothing about arm strength being a weakness and, in fact, his arm is described as "above average" and "strong."

 

Peterman--

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/nathan-peterman?id=2558191

Strengths

Has enough arm to work field side, intermediate throws. 

Weaknesses

Inconsistent delivery base causes some throws to sail. Has instances where he short strides and is forced to muscle it to his target. Will float some throws on seams and dig routes. Will have to be mindful to drive the ball on pro level to avoid the ballhawks who are lurking at safety. Has to prove he has enough arm to challenge the same tight windows he did in college. Ball handling a little sluggish in wide receiver screens, hitches and most RPOs (run, pass option). Wants to play hero-ball at times. Needs to learn when to air-mail throw and move to next play rather than trying to get too cute with sideline throws. Can improve overall touch.

 

In Peterman's overview and strengths, you get a lot of discussion about anticipation and accuracy and a single line about arm strength that's incredibly vague, but the bulk of his weakness discussion has to do with arm strength.

 

There's a reason for that.

 

I don't think anyone watching Peterman throw would dare say he has more zip in his passes than Tyrod Taylor or Deshaun Watson. 

 

Geez. 

 

I don't think anyone needs ball velocity numbers to know that.

Edited July 1, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 6/28/2018 at 4:22 PM, jr1 said:

I think he'd be okay in a run-heavy offense

 

No- he even looked like a deer in headlights when running the ball, ether fumbling or diving into concussions 

[GunnerBill]

22 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 ?? 

 

This is the most likely event.  

 

AJ McCarron is most likely here 1 or 2 if Allen is legit.    

 

If Nate has improved and he can come in if needed and play like he did in the Saints debacle he’ll be fine. 

 

 

No. It is not the most likely. It is possible, sure. But not likely. 

18 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This spreadsheet tracks all the ball velocity measurements since 2008:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-SienfT3umX0HKxRyQqyXM9BqHrotdcQA6W-V_pDiY/htmlview?usp=drive_web&usp=sheets_home&ths=true&sle=true#

 

Traditionally you want to be 55 MPH or above. Peterman was at 53 MPH. Although I'll point out a few QBs that had under 55 MPH and have never been questioned on arm strength:

 

Dak Prescott - 54

Deshaun Watson - 49

Tyrod Taylor - 50

 

Even if you're a staunch believer in 55 and up, that means you think Peterman needs to increase his ball velocity by 2 MPH to be a starting NFL QB. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that that can be done.

 

That spreadsheet is whack.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Some of you guys can hate on this kid all you want, but when the rubber hits the road in September he may be you game one starter.

 

...that's not hyperbole, and I am not saying it's right or wrong, it just is what it is.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 hours ago, Doc said:

Yeah I thought it was 49 and then revised to 51. 

 

The Ourlads and perhaps some other numbers that are published, are not the official Combine numbers (which sometimes leak, and are seen to differ).

 

One source I saw said something like 80% of the numbers out "in the wild" with the general public differ.

[transplantbillsfan]

7 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Some of you guys can hate on this kid all you want, but when the rubber hits the road in September he may be you game one starter.

 

...that's not hyperbole, and I am not saying it's right or wrong, it just is what it is.

 

Yes, we understand he might start week 1.

 

I absolutely acknowledge it's very possible.

 

Personally, I think it'll be around 20-25% chance of it happening, but that's significant enough where I've come to terms with it.

 

But if he does, it's going to be because Peterman won the offseason and looked better than the other guys.

 

But last preseason and the 2015 preseason should be cautionary tales, where Peterman and EJ Manuel were pretty clearly the best QBs in preseason games.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Some of you guys can hate on this kid all you want, but when the rubber hits the road in September he may be you game one starter.

 

...that's not hyperbole, and I am not saying it's right or wrong, it just is what it is.

 

 

...starter?.....way too early IMO...if and a BIG IF we come out of this trio with the next Kelly/Reich one-two punch, any objections?.....and if the odd guy out was close enough in camp competition that clubs come calling with a draft pick due to their unforeseen injury, would that be an added benefit if McBeane kept all three on the active 53?...NOT to overplay the cards, but it seems to be a better QB position today than other times post Kelly....

[billsredneck1]

43 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...starter?.....way too early IMO...if and a BIG IF we come out of this trio with the next Kelly/Reich one-two punch, any objections?.....and if the odd guy out was close enough in camp competition that clubs come calling with a draft pick due to their unforeseen injury, would that be an added benefit if McBeane kept all three on the active 53?...NOT to overplay the cards, but it seems to be a better QB position today than other times post Kelly....

....in a nutshell.

[dollars 2 donuts]

5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...starter?.....way too early IMO...if and a BIG IF we come out of this trio with the next Kelly/Reich one-two punch, any objections?.....and if the odd guy out was close enough in camp competition that clubs come calling with a draft pick due to their unforeseen injury, would that be an added benefit if McBeane kept all three on the active 53?...NOT to overplay the cards, but it seems to be a better QB position today than other times post Kelly....

 

 

I absolutely don't disagree with that, at all.

 

Also, again I said "maybe" partially based upon the guy getting a number of starting reps.  The other part being they seem to love this kid, regardless of what happened during the season last year. 

 

That may change dramatically in training camp, but over the Spring and early Summer his share of respect and look-see from this staff.

Edited July 2, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts

[Lfod]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yes, we understand he might start week 1.

 

I absolutely acknowledge it's very possible.

 

Personally, I think it'll be around 20-25% chance of it happening, but that's significant enough where I've come to terms with it.

 

But if he does, it's going to be because Peterman won the offseason and looked better than the other guys.

 

But last preseason and the 2015 preseason should be cautionary tales, where Peterman and EJ Manuel were pretty clearly the best QBs in preseason games.

I think as Bills fans we are stuck counting on whatever Daboll can assemble with the tools he is given. I think that is the situation to come to terms with.  

 

The offense has no identity beside Shady Mcoy and maybe Kelvin Benjamin. I'm realistic on the situation. 

 

Peterman hasn't finished an NFL game yet. Josh Allen hasn't played an NFL game yet. AJMcCarron is the only one that's actually ever been in the NFL as a backup.

 

 The NFL isn't an easy place for QBs and rookies do develop differently and most of them won't make it. I don't think the offense jumps out the gate and surprises anyone. I think the odds are that it will be a work in progress hoping to be established eventually. 

 

I think the offense was so out of rythm last season it effected Tyrod and Peterman. Tyrod handled it better because he can outrun pressure and had experience.  

 

I wish every other piece was in place so that I could feel like just a QB short of identity. I don't think it is that simple for the team right now. 

 

I love run first but absolutely limits getting a rythm in the passing game for a squad that didn't find rythm at times. 

 

What we definitely agree on is the best QB should start. Let's just be open that any of these QBs you start might have hurdles and obstacles in the way. 

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Lfod

[Captain Hindsight]

On 6/30/2018 at 9:57 AM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...had to been an exhaustive amount of ruminating on his extensive body of work to reach that conclusion......

Heres the thing I don't understand with the fascination with Peterman. He was horrendous last season, not bad, horrendous. He completed like 6 good passes.

 

Meanwhile, Jeff Tuel who also started one game (against an 8-0 team btw) and completed 18-39 passes for 229 yards a touchdown and only 2 INTs is universally regarded as a horrible player

 

Everyone wants to keep making excuses for him. The line didnt block, it was a good pass rushing team. Nope, he just flat out failed. Its such a common tale that 5th round pick that I cant believe its still discussed 

[BigBuff423]

I have NO idea how Peterman's career will turn out and I have equally NO idea if he is actually improving or it's just gym shorts that make the difference. However, for this one thing I'll say: if Chad f-ing Pennington can be a good QB in the NFL, virtually anyone with actual arms that can hold a ball with one hand, CAN be a QB. The difference??

 

Chad Pennington had accuracy and anticipation unlike I've seen since his days. I recall (unfortunately) when he played for Miami - so he was older and his arm was even worse than when he came out of Marshall - and the Bills were playing in that God-awful Toronto series. Ricky Williams did a wheel-route and Chad let the ball go when Ricky was still at the line of scrimmage, and drop that f-ing ball in a bucket to Ricky 30 yards down field. It was an amazing throw, but it was also maddening to watch. He just had this way of seeing 10 steps ahead and getting it to the receiver at just the right time.

 

So, for Peterman, can it be done? Sure can...but even more than his arm strength, what will determine his career trajectory will be anticipation and accuracy because his arm is his arm at this point. Modest improvement is possible, but changing his entire game - I doubt it. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by BigBuff423

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Heres the thing I don't understand with the fascination with Peterman. He was horrendous last season, not bad, horrendous. He completed like 6 good passes.

 

Meanwhile, Jeff Tuel who also started one game (against an 8-0 team btw) and completed 18-39 passes for 229 yards a touchdown and only 2 INTs is universally regarded as a horrible player

 

Everyone wants to keep making excuses for him. The line didnt block, it was a good pass rushing team. Nope, he just flat out failed. Its such a common tale that 5th round pick that I cant believe its still discussed 

 

Boom!!!

 

Great post!

 

I'm not even saying Peterman won't develop into a legitimate starting QB, but it's head-scratching the way some are talking about him like he already is one.

 

I just think if Peterman starts this year, which he might, all of the SaviorPeterman's of this board should be prepared to see a QB with most of the same weaknesses, flashing good maybe a little more than last year, but benched by mid season. I definitely wouldn't root for that if he's named starter, but it's just what likely will happen.

 

People are talking about Peterman like he's going to be our Frank Reich for the next decade or so. Talk about a massively premature statement, not to mention a huge slap in the face to the guy who engineered the greatest comeback in NFL history. 

[reddogblitz]

On 6/28/2018 at 6:01 PM, Boca BIlls said:

The one guy who will never start gets so much attention. 

 

The backup QB that has never played is always the most popular guy on the team.  It's as old as the forward pass. Probably older actually.

On 6/28/2018 at 6:42 PM, Steptide said:

I don't think him starting is that far fetched either. If McCarron isn't good and Allen isn't ready, Peterman is our best hope. I've said it before, and as ridiculous as it may sound, Peterman is the most nfl proven qb we have on our roster. 

 

This would be a HUGE FAIL by McDermott and Beane if this were to happen.

[Steptide]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

The backup QB that has never played is always the most popular guy on the team.  It's as old as the forward pass. Probably older actually.

 

This would be a HUGE FAIL by McDermott and Beane if this were to happen.

Huge fail? How so? We have 3 unproven qbs on our roster. There is no guarantee McCarron is any good and no guarantee that allen will start this year. At the end of the day, if Peterman is our best chance to win, then play him 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Steptide

[reddogblitz]

48 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Huge fail? How so? We have 3 unproven qbs on our roster. There is no guarantee McCarron is any good and no guarantee that allen will start this year. At the end of the day, if Peterman is our best chance to win, then play him 

 

YeS, HUGE FAIL if that's the best we got to trot out there.  Beane's job is to have quality NFL starting talent at every position. If Nasty Nate's the best we got, it's a fail IMHO.  Like last year, this is NOT a tank year. We're trying to win.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

34 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

YeS, HUGE FAIL if that's the best we got to trot out there.  Beane's job is to have quality NFL starting talent at every position. If Nasty Nate's the best we got, it's a fail IMHO.  Like last year, this is NOT a tank year. We're trying to win.  

 

....well, at least you said "humble"....SMH......knowing the that draft & FA are ABSOLUTELY exact sciences, I'm sure he's trying like hell to lose.....TC cannot get here soon enough...good Lord.........

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

I'm sure he's trying like hell to lose

 

Of course he isn't trying to lose.  Neither were Whaley or Donahoe.  They just weren't good enough at their jobs. Here's hoping Beane is.  So far so good IMHO.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Of course he isn't trying to lose.  Neither were Whaley or Donahoe.  They just weren't good enough at their jobs. Here's hoping Beane is.  So far so good IMHO.

 

....I CERTAINLY feel much better about your closing assessment.....thought for a moment you were a "doom 'n gloom" guy when we're just getting started....my apology.....

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....I CERTAINLY feel much better about your closing assessment.....thought for a moment you were a "doom 'n gloom" guy when we're just getting started....my apology.....

 

I'm glad you're feeling better!

 

I just want to win.  I thought we had a pretty good QB last year that we could and did win with.  I have ZERO interest in going backwards at all.  Hopefully we don't  although it is FAR from guaranteed.

 

But whoever lines up under center on 9/9 will  have my 100% support just like Nasty Nate and Joe Webb III had last year when they played.

[C.Biscuit97]

It’s stupid to write off any qb too early, but it’s kinda amazing how much hype Peterman gets.  He was fairly good but nothing great in college and doesn’t have any elite physical skills.  His best quality was he was the most “pro ready” of any of the qbs and we all saw how that went.

 

i think the guy is a 3rd string qb but he certainly deserves a chance to prove me wrong.  

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I'm glad you're feeling better!

 

I just want to win.  I thought we had a pretty good QB last year that we could and did win with.  I have ZERO interest in going backwards at all.  Hopefully we don't  although it is FAR from guaranteed.

 

But whoever lines up under center on 9/9 will  have my 100% support just like Nasty Nate and Joe Webb III had last year when they played.

 

Whoever lines up under center for the 1st 4 games is going to have a tough ride.

I hope he can hang on!

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Whoever lines up under center for the 1st 4 games is going to have a tough ride.

I hope he can hang on!

 

Why?

 

Because of who we play?

 

First of all, no one really knows if the Ravens, Chargers, Vikings and Packers are all really going to be that good. We play this game every year:

 

"Well that's a Loss!!!"

 

I'm tired of that game. Remember the 2-0 Big Bad Broncos last year? Or the 3-0  Frightening Super Bowl runner-up Falcons with the reigning league MVP the very next week? Or the Cardinals in 2016 in week 3 coming off a week 2 thrashing of the Bucs? Or the 3-0 and rolling Patriots the following week in Foxborough? Or week 1 in 2015 against the AFC conference runner up Colts and their all-world QB Andrew Luck?

 

This game of circling Ws and Ls is silly. No game in the NFL is a gimme. No game in the NFL is an automatic Loss. 

 

The Bills will come to play in those games, and one thing I will argue could be a benefit rather than a detriment for those first 4 weeks is having a QB under center with very little game tape for the opposition to study, especially if Allen becomes the starter--being an unknown will be a bit of help to start the season for whoever McDermott chooses at QB.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

23 more days 

 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

13 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Why?

 

Because of who we play?

 

First of all, no one really knows if the Ravens, Chargers, Vikings and Packers are all really going to be that good. We play this game every year:

 

"Well that's a Loss!!!"

 

I'm tired of that game. Remember the 2-0 Big Bad Broncos last year? Or the 3-0  Frightening Super Bowl runner-up Falcons with the reigning league MVP the very next week? Or the Cardinals in 2016 in week 3 coming off a week 2 thrashing of the Bucs? Or the 3-0 and rolling Patriots the following week in Foxborough? Or week 1 in 2015 against the AFC conference runner up Colts and their all-world QB Andrew Luck?

 

This game of circling Ws and Ls is silly. No game in the NFL is a gimme. No game in the NFL is an automatic Loss. 

 

The Bills will come to play in those games, and one thing I will argue could be a benefit rather than a detriment for those first 4 weeks is having a QB under center with very little game tape for the opposition to study, especially if Allen becomes the starter--being an unknown will be a bit of help to start the season for whoever McDermott chooses at QB.

 

I didn't say anything about wins and losses.  I commented on the Bill's QB (whoever he is) having to go against some of the best D's in the

league right out of the gate and hoping whoever is starting can overcome it.

 

Chillax 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I didn't say anything about wins and losses.  I commented on the Bill's QB (whoever he is) having to go against some of the best D's in the

league right out of the gate and hoping whoever is starting can overcome it.

 

Chillax 

Good luck with that 

 

 

 

[prissythecat]

On 6/29/2018 at 12:25 PM, matter2003 said:

It wont be entertaining it will be scientific.

 

The main way is by building core strength/lower body strength. It has little to nothing to do with the arm. The amount of torque and force generated by your lower body far exceeds anything you could come close to producing with just your arm alone or even with your upper body. Muscles in the legs, glutes and core produce far more force when utilized properly than any muscle group in the upper body.

 

But that doesn't start at the hips it starts at the foot level and travels up the posterior chain, to the hips where the kinetic energy gets transferred into a "whiplike" motion when you properly torque your hips. This is the basis for all power with any throws.

 

Increase the strength of the posterior chain, the flexibility and strength of the hip flexors and all the little muscles in that area that relate to torquing your hips with more force and you increase your "arm strength" by orders of magnitude.

 

You aren't even in the same area code with your thinking as you are referring to upper body work which will give negligible results to improving arm strength.

 

Watch Tom Brady throw...he is the master of the hip torque throw...in fact he has gotten so good at this he can at times simply torque his hips by just shifting his weight without even taking a step and generate sufficient force to throw a ball on a rope 20 yards down field. Try doing that with just arm strength.

 

And it doesnt take a genius to know that most people can improve their lower body strength. Just go to any gym and count the percentage of guys with reasonably proportioned lower bodies in relation to their upper bodies. Its under 5%. Considering that most QBs do little to no weight work in college and there is tons of room to improve.

 

And this doesnt even get into the actual technique of how to do this properly which is paid attention to at a much closer level in the NFL than in college.

 

I think we are on the same page overall in what goes into throwing the football.  The point I was trying to make is that on the margin,  weight room work won't make that much of a difference since very few QBs have perfect mechanics.  Improving the mechanics will have more impact someone like Peterman  compared to having him lift more weights whether it is for his lower body , torso,  or arms.  Optimum  timing of when each muscle/ body part is activated when throwing is a lot more key then having bigger muscles.  

 

Is there an QB in the NFL that substantially upped his game to another level because he spent many many hours bulking up in the weight room?   Unless some high prospect had the muscle tone of Urkel,  I don't think many NFL QBs have a need to go beyond regular conditioning regimens?

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

I think we are on the same page overall in what goes into throwing the football.  The point I was trying to make is that on the margin,  weight room work won't make that much of a difference since very few QBs have perfect mechanics.  Improving the mechanics will have more impact someone like Peterman  compared to having him lift more weights whether it is for his lower body , torso,  or arms.  Optimum  timing of when each muscle/ body part is activated when throwing is a lot more key then having bigger muscles.  

 

Is there an QB in the NFL that substantially upped his game to another level because he spent many many hours bulking up in the weight room?   Unless some high prospect had the muscle tone of Urkel,  I don't think many NFL QBs have a need to go beyond regular conditioning regimens?

 

Agree. I do think that a NFL strength and conditioning program should benefit a guy like Peterman although given the position any increase in core strength cannot come at the expense of flexibility. But I also think that proper mechanics are more likely to influence velocity (and accuracy). And based on what little I've seen of him Peterman's mechanics could do with some work for sure. The (post) season ending pick in Jax was a good example. Fully front facing the target and pushing off his front foot. C'mon man.

I suspect that with work Peterman can get to where a lack of arm strength will not be the reason he fails if indeed he does fail. Maybe it just means that he should avoid attempting the sorts of throws that can require raw arm strength independently of ideal mechanics, like the out to Thompson. To me that's a tough assignment to execute with perfect lower body positioning/mechanics. If the technique is slightly off, as I think it often is, then you are a lot better off if you are Josh Allen than if you are NP.

On the other hand, it's not like Peterman was lining up under centre. He was in the gun, and so I do understand why that throw raises legitimate concerns regarding arm strength. We will all see soon enuf whether he has been able to improve.

Edited July 3, 2018 by starrymessenger

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Agree. I do think that a NFL strength and conditioning program should benefit a guy like Peterman although given the position any increase in core strength cannot come at the expense of flexibility. But I also think that proper mechanics are more likely to influence velocity (and accuracy). And based on what little I've seen of him Peterman's mechanics could do with some work for sure. The (post) season ending pick in Jax was a good example. Fully front facing the target and pushing off his front foot. C'mon man.

I suspect that with work Peterman can get to where a lack of arm strength will not be the reason he fails if indeed he does fail. Maybe it just means that he should avoid attempting the sorts of throws that can require raw arm strength independently of ideal mechanics, like the out to Thompson. To me that's a tough assignment to execute with perfect lower body positioning/mechanics. If the technique is slightly off, as I think it often is, then you are a lot better off if you are Josh Allen than if you are NP.

On the other hand, it's not like Peterman was lining up under centre. He was in the gun, and so I do understand why that throw raises legitimate concerns regarding arm strength. We will all see soon enuf whether he has been able to improve.

So in order for Peterman to be successful, he shouldn't attempt out routes? 

 

If he can't execute all the throws, why is he on the roster?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

23 more days 

 

 

 

 

...rather listen to effin' fingernails on a chalkboard or watch a can of Sherwin Williams dry............

[Billsfanatixs]

The facts that pro-bowler Joey Bosa said, "he didn't block me, he didn't block me, he litterally did not block me" means nothing?

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Billsfanatixs

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

So in order for Peterman to be successful, he shouldn't attempt out routes? 

 

If he can't execute all the throws, why is he on the roster?

 

Right now I wouldn't bet on him making the deep out (certainly not to the opposite hash). I agree the shallow/intermediate out (as in Jax) is a throw he needs to make. I think maybe he can get there since I feel the lack of velocity on that particular throw was more poor mechanics than anything else. 

As for having to make all the throws, I'm not sure I agree. He needs to make the higher percentage throws with regularity and he needs to be able to credibly challenge a secondary on occasion. There have been some good QBs with something less than ideal arm strength and hence with something less than the complete repertoire of throws at their disposal.