Cavs, Bills, and Situational Awareness

[JP's Voice]

I know that last night's game is being discussed in the NBA thread, but watching JR Smith's lack of situational awareness got me thinking about times that the Bills showed good situational awareness, or lack there of in the past.

The good:

- Fred Jackson not scoring against the Pats to eat the clock and eventually kick a GW FG
- Fred Jackson purposely dropping a dump-down @ the end of the game to preserve time and eventually drive down to win game against maybe the Raiders or Vikings?

 

The bad:

- Kyle Orton's 3&1 slide behind the LOS to end our drive and kill momentum against Broncos
- Tyrod taking the sack to put us out of FG range in playoff game while trying to extend the play, instead of just throwing it away
- Our special teams unit being unable to get a FG off at end of half against the Pats because our lineman got into a scuffle.

 

 

I realize everyone is a Monday morning quarterback, but I have to say that the more I think about it, the bad situational awareness plays stand out more to me than the good ones.

 

What say you?

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, JP's Voice said:

I know that last night's game is being discussed in the NBA thread, but watching JR Smith's lack of situational awareness got me thinking about times that the Bills showed good situational awareness, or lack there of in the past.

The good:

- Fred Jackson not scoring against the Pats to eat the clock and eventually kick a GW FG
- Fred Jackson purposely dropping a dump-down @ the end of the game to preserve time and eventually drive down to win game against maybe the Raiders or Vikings?

 

The bad:

- Kyle Orton's 3&1 slide behind the LOS to end our drive and kill momentum against Broncos
- Tyrod taking the sack to put us out of FG range in playoff game while trying to extend the play, instead of just throwing it away
- Our special teams unit being unable to get a FG off at end of half against the Pats because our lineman got into a scuffle.

 

 

I realize everyone is a Monday morning quarterback, but I have to say that the more I think about it, the bad situational awareness plays stand out more to me than the good ones.

 

What say you?

 

 

In 1997 the Bills played a game in KC and late in the game were driving and Eric Moulds caught a pass near the sideline and the rockhead tried to run a defender over for an extra yard instead of getting out of bounds and sealed the game and his rep as a dumb player.   Man he was all-around awful those first two years.   At this time in 1998 he was everyone's surprise-not-surprise cut.   

[plenzmd1]

Not to bust your bubble or anything..but Fred tried like hell to score, thought he did , celebrated that he did..and only after the challenge did he(and the Bills) realize it was good he did not.

16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In 1997 the Bills played a game in KC and late in the game were driving and Eric Moulds caught a pass near the sideline and the rockhead tried to run a defender over for an extra yard instead of getting out of bounds and sealed the game and his rep as a dumb player.   Man he was all-around awful those first two years.   At this time in 1998 he was everyone's surprise-not-surprise cut.   

who was the other receiver ...maybe Woody who recently took on a DB to gain a useless extra yard and knocked himself out of the next two games

Edited June 1, 2018 by plenzmd1

[elroy16]

First one that pops in to my head, probably because it was brought up in another thread at some point not too long ago, McKelvin returning the kickoff against NE on Monday Night Football. If you insist on returning it, you better have two hands on it and go down easy, neither of which he did. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Stupid is as stupid does....

[Dablitzkrieg]

I think it was Trent Edwards or JP Losman throwing it away on 4th down.  maybe it was both

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I think it was Trent Edwards or JP Losman throwing it away on 4th down.  maybe it was both

 

Bledsoe i recall doing that too

[SoCal Deek]

Losman fumbling against the Jets. I simply couldn’t believe it!

[US Egg]

The speed of thinking required in professional sports is beyond mere mortal comprehension.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Ifartalot

[KD in CA]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Losman fumbling against the Jets. I simply couldn’t believe it!

 

Was it Peters who didn’t even attempt to block the end on that play?

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, KD in CA said:

 

Was it Peters who didn’t even attempt to block the end on that play?

I still remember yelling at the TV...”I’m so done with this Team!!”...and yet here I am.

[row_33]

12 minutes ago, Ifartalot said:

The speed of thinking required in professional sports is beyond mere mortal comprehension.

 

they don't think, they react, some create

 

 

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

The propensity of Bills' HCs past and present (and other NFL coaches in general) to punt late in games from opponents territory. 

[SouthNYfan]

Situational awareness?

Tyrod dumping it off for 3 yards on 3rd and long when behind late in games

[Augie]

46 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

who was the other receiver ...maybe Woody who recently took on a DB to gain a useless extra yard and knocked himself out of the next two games

 

Speaking of useless yards, I hate when the WR fights for another 6 inches allowing time for the 2nd and 3rd defender to arrive and strip the ball. Sometimes it’s just best to GO DOWN! 

 

The specific play that comes to my mind is Trent Edwards trying to reach the ball out for a first down like he was crossing the goal line. This did not end the play of course, and the other team (Dolphins?) just took the ball from him. It looked like he was handing it to them!!!  THAT was lack of situational awareness. 

[JP's Voice]

50 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In 1997 the Bills played a game in KC and late in the game were driving and Eric Moulds caught a pass near the sideline and the rockhead tried to run a defender over for an extra yard instead of getting out of bounds and sealed the game and his rep as a dumb player.   Man he was all-around awful those first two years.   At this time in 1998 he was everyone's surprise-not-surprise cut.   

 

Does this mean there is hope for Zay Jones? The next Eric Moulds?

[SoCal Deek]

11 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

Situational awareness?

Tyrod dumping it off for 3 yards on 3rd and long when behind late in games

That was called game management. ?

[plenzmd1]

23 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Sometimes it’s just best to GO DOWN! 

 

 

 

I would say this is 100% my most used phrase during any Bills game. Othet people scream"get Him"( most annoying thing at a football game in my mind) I scream GO DOWN!!!! I 100% agree with you..now I am off to my therapist to understand how that could be so!

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by plenzmd1

[US Egg]

18 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

they don't think, they react, some create

 

 

 

 

.....so according to you, professional athletes don't think when playing/participating in their respective sports ? 

 

Wow. ?

[Shaw66]

In his first NFL game Marshawn Lynch runs out of bounds late in the game, saving clock for the Broncos to drive for the game-winning FG.  

 

I have enormous confidence in McDermott. I think you'll see increasing situational awareness from his team in the coming years.  He needs a couple of years where the roster isn't turning over so much. 

[frostbitmic]

Trent Edwards running out of bounds on 4th down late in a game we trailed the Saints by less than one score. You might as well just throw it downfield and maybe your receiver will catch it or get interfered with.

 

Rex Ryan throwing a challenge flag in a game against the patriots. Tyrod was forced out of the pocket and then forced out of bounds. Rex challenged that it should've been 4th and 8 instead of 4th and 11... He lost the challenge BTW.

 

Wide right may have been different if they ran another play instead of letting the clock wind down. IIRC, Norwood was was deadly accurate from inside 40 yards that year but awful outside of 40 yards. They settled for a 47 yarder instead of trying to get another 10-12 yards.

[MJS]

36 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

The propensity of Bills' HCs past and present (and other NFL coaches in general) to punt late in games from opponents territory. 

 

I kind of have the opinion that you should ALWAYS go for it on 4th down if you are in the opponent's territory and not yet in field goal range, unless you have to get 7 or more yards.

 

If you are winning and milking the clock, it makes sense to punt, or if conditions are just terrible, etc. There are some reasons not to.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

I don't care if it was a joke, wearing a helmet in a press briefing is not good 'situational awareness'.  Just one of his many gaffes.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, JP's Voice said:

I know that last night's game is being discussed in the NBA thread, but watching JR Smith's lack of situational awareness got me thinking about times that the Bills showed good situational awareness, or lack there of in the past.

The good:

- Fred Jackson not scoring against the Pats to eat the clock and eventually kick a GW FG
- Fred Jackson purposely dropping a dump-down @ the end of the game to preserve time and eventually drive down to win game against maybe the Raiders or Vikings?

 

The bad:

- Kyle Orton's 3&1 slide behind the LOS to end our drive and kill momentum against Broncos
- Tyrod taking the sack to put us out of FG range in playoff game while trying to extend the play, instead of just throwing it away
- Our special teams unit being unable to get a FG off at end of half against the Pats because our lineman got into a scuffle.

 

 

I realize everyone is a Monday morning quarterback, but I have to say that the more I think about it, the bad situational awareness plays stand out more to me than the good ones.

 

What say you?

The Orton slide was not a bad play to anyone who understands the NFL.

 

As its replacement, I submit Rex punting versus the Dolphins.

 

Also, Fred Jackson tried to score against the Pats, he just got tackled.

[Bray Wyatt]

1 hour ago, JP's Voice said:

I know that last night's game is being discussed in the NBA thread, but watching JR Smith's lack of situational awareness got me thinking about times that the Bills showed good situational awareness, or lack there of in the past.

The good:

- Fred Jackson not scoring against the Pats to eat the clock and eventually kick a GW FG
- Fred Jackson purposely dropping a dump-down @ the end of the game to preserve time and eventually drive down to win game against maybe the Raiders or Vikings?

 

The bad:

- Kyle Orton's 3&1 slide behind the LOS to end our drive and kill momentum against Broncos
- Tyrod taking the sack to put us out of FG range in playoff game while trying to extend the play, instead of just throwing it away
- Our special teams unit being unable to get a FG off at end of half against the Pats because our lineman got into a scuffle.

 

 

I realize everyone is a Monday morning quarterback, but I have to say that the more I think about it, the bad situational awareness plays stand out more to me than the good ones.

 

What say you?

 

Pretty sure that was the Carolina comeback game with EJ at Qb

[plenzmd1]

3 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

 

Wide right may have been different if they ran another play instead of letting the clock wind down. IIRC, Norwood was was deadly accurate from inside 40 yards that year but awful outside of 40 yards. They settled for a 47 yarder instead of trying to get another 10-12 yards.

1

That could go either way..JK gets scaked there, or takes a penalty, or reciever fails to get out of bounds..they are crucified for never even getting an attempt off. I think it was right call.

 

I will tell you one other one when the coach was right, I am still impressed with it...and it was Rex of all people!

 

Seattle game end of half after the Sherman/ Carpenter hit..and Carp had to sit for a play. Rex was smart to clock the ball, i had not thought of that. Course it was prolly 9:30 at the time, and I had been pregaming since 4...but I was actually impressed with the Rex in that moment.

[row_33]

32 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

Pretty sure that was the Carolina comeback game with EJ at Qb

 

one of the very few times a Bills QB took them down the field like a boss in the last two minutes the last 2 decades

 

i'm hard-pressed to think up another one but I'm sure it must have happened.

 

the opposite of leadership was:

 

4	2:03	4	th and 8 at the	NWE 40	Kelly Holcomb pass complete to Eric Moulds for no gain

Edited June 1, 2018 by row_33

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

The propensity of Bills' HCs past and present (and other NFL coaches in general) to punt late in games from opponents territory. 

 

I remember Marrone trying to punt against NE, on 4th and 2 in the 4th quarter, down 16. Orton sent the punt team back

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

Trent Edwards running out of bounds on 4th down late in a game we trailed the Saints by less than one score. You might as well just throw it downfield and maybe your receiver will catch it or get interfered with.

 

Rex Ryan throwing a challenge flag in a game against the patriots. Tyrod was forced out of the pocket and then forced out of bounds. Rex challenged that it should've been 4th and 8 instead of 4th and 11... He lost the challenge BTW.

 

Wide right may have been different if they ran another play instead of letting the clock wind down. IIRC, Norwood was was deadly accurate from inside 40 yards that year but awful outside of 40 yards. They settled for a 47 yarder instead of trying to get another 10-12 yards.

 

Wasn't Norwood really mediocre on natural grass too?

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I think it was Trent Edwards or JP Losman throwing it away on 4th down.  maybe it was both

Losman fumbling the ball on 4th and 1 on our own 5 yard line against the Jets with 2 minutes to go.

[frostbitmic]

16 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I remember Marrone trying to punt against NE, on 4th and 2 in the 4th quarter, down 16. Orton sent the punt team back

 

Wasn't Norwood really mediocre on natural grass too?

I'm not sure on that, I just knew that anything beyond 40 yards that year was an adventure.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, frostbitmic said:

I'm not sure on that, I just knew that anything beyond 40 yards that year was an adventure.

 

Yes, Norwood was a first-team All-Pro in 1988. But to that point, his longest career field goal on grass was a 41-yarder against the Miami Dolphins in 1987.

 

According to a 2005 episode of a defunct ESPN series entitled The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame..., during the previous five years leading up to Super Bowl XXV, kickers missed more than half of their attempts from 47 yards on grass. Norwood didn't have a strong leg to begin with and was less familiar with kicking off grass than some of his peers were. 

 

He spent his entire career playing home games at Ralph Wilson Stadium (known then as Rich Stadium), which at the time had artificial turf. Thus, during the course of a 108-game career that spanned seven seasons, he had made only 18 field goals on grass. 

 

To that point, he was 8-of-17 in his career on grass, with most of those good kicks coming from short range. He had attempted just one field goal of 40-plus yards on grass in the prior two seasons—a 42-yard miss in Cleveland—and was 1-of-5 in his career under those circumstances. 

[frostbitmic]

7 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Yes, Norwood was a first-team All-Pro in 1988. But to that point, his longest career field goal on grass was a 41-yarder against the Miami Dolphins in 1987.

 

According to a 2005 episode of a defunct ESPN series entitled The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame..., during the previous five years leading up to Super Bowl XXV, kickers missed more than half of their attempts from 47 yards on grass. Norwood didn't have a strong leg to begin with and was less familiar with kicking off grass than some of his peers were. 

 

He spent his entire career playing home games at Ralph Wilson Stadium (known then as Rich Stadium), which at the time had artificial turf. Thus, during the course of a 108-game career that spanned seven seasons, he had made only 18 field goals on grass. 

 

To that point, he was 8-of-17 in his career on grass, with most of those good kicks coming from short range. He had attempted just one field goal of 40-plus yards on grass in the prior two seasons—a 42-yard miss in Cleveland—and was 1-of-5 in his career under those circumstances. 

That's just awful, poor situational awareness there.

[US Egg]

1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I don't care if it was a joke, wearing a helmet in a press briefing is not good 'situational awareness'.  Just one of his many gaffes.

Friends of ours bought a place on a golf course where errant hit balls would occasionally hit their house and land under their large covered patio as they say outside.

 

This was in Scottsdale Ariz. Their next door neighbors would wear bicycle helmets every time they set foot outside behind their home.....it was sort of a bizarre sight.

[corta765]

2 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Bledsoe i recall doing that too

Bledsoe against the Texans (forgot the season) ran out of bounds on 4th down rather then throwing. It was the final play for the Bills if they didn't convert and my dad and I were quite puzzled.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

I remember Marrone trying to punt against NE, on 4th and 2 in the 4th quarter, down 16. Orton sent the punt team back

 

Wasn't Norwood really mediocre on natural grass too?

 

Pretty refreshing to see what the Eagles are doing in this regard.

[JP's Voice]

2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

The Orton slide was not a bad play to anyone who understands the NFL.

 

As its replacement, I submit Rex punting versus the Dolphins.

 

Also, Fred Jackson tried to score against the Pats, he just got tackled.

Care to elaborate?

[BringBackOrton]

24 minutes ago, JP's Voice said:

Care to elaborate?

Orton did not have the angle to get the first and protect himself.  He gets his head taken off trying to get it, he may be hurt.  Hurt Orton means EJ plays.  EJ plays mean we lose every game after that.

 

Tom Brady has made that play 50 times in his career.  Because Tom Brady not getting hurt is more important to the Patriots than a singular first down.  It's not like it was 4th and 1 on a potential game winning drive. It was 3 minutes into the second Q in a 1 score game.  Plenty of game left to make up for it.

[plenzmd1]

3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Orton did not have the angle to get the first and protect himself.  He gets his head taken off trying to get it, he may be hurt.  Hurt Orton means EJ plays.  EJ plays mean we lose every game after that.

 

Tom Brady has made that play 50 times in his career.  Because Tom Brady not getting hurt is more important to the Patriots than a singular first down.  It's not like it was 4th and 1 on a potential game winning drive. It was 3 minutes into the second Q in a 1 score game.  Plenty of game left to make up for it.

i agree to a point, but think making the 1st was doable on that play..

 

I also have always hated the auto timeout bu the offence if time running down on the playclock, especially early in 3rd or so. The timeout is so much more valuable than the 5 yards in so many ways. Now I am not saying it is always best to take the 5 yards..again situational.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Ifartalot said:

Their next door neighbors would wear bicycle helmets every time they set foot outside behind their home.....it was sort of a bizarre sight.

A bizarre sight, but great situational awareness.  The organist in 'Slapshot' eventually caught on as well.

[BringBackOrton]

12 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

i agree to a point, but think making the 1st was doable on that play..

 

I also have always hated the auto timeout bu the offence if time running down on the playclock, especially early in 3rd or so. The timeout is so much more valuable than the 5 yards in so many ways. Now I am not saying it is always best to take the 5 yards..again situational.

If you watch, the second Orton gives up on the play and initiates the slide, he doesn't even fully get down without 2 Denver players being right on top of him.  I think it looked more egregious in real time, especially because of how slow he was, but I would put my money on him not being able to make it after reviewing the replay.