eball Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: I hope it's not related to drugs. I want to see this kid succeed. Aside from simply possessing an admirable benevolence towards mankind, may I ask why? It seems to me this idiot has had many chances to do the right thing... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 League sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter that Gordon is seeking additional counseling before camp opens to deal with his mental health and anxiety. The wide receiver has said that he typically used alcohol or marijuana when he was anxious, something he cannot do without another violation of the NFL's substance abuse policy. Gordon has regularly been in touch with his counselors and was told to take the extra time in a proactive move, sources said. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24174029/josh-gordon-miss-start-cleveland-browns-training-camp-cites-health-treatment-plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonbus23 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 hour ago, eball said: Aside from simply possessing an admirable benevolence towards mankind, may I ask why? It seems to me this idiot has had many chances to do the right thing... I think you answered your own question. Many factors in play. Race, class, mental health, education, addiction, family and community, etc. Gordon began his life with all of these factors on the low end of the spectrum or stacked against him. I'd call him an idiot if he was raised by a doctor and a professor in La Jolla, CA with a maid, tutors, access to health care, regular healthy meals, white, etc. and he still screwed up repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Gordon is why the NFL will never take weed off the banned substance list. He says he smoke and/or drank before EVERY GAME HE PLAYED. That's what they fear most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Will the Browns still be amazing guys? 19 minutes ago, leonbus23 said: I think you answered your own question. Many factors in play. Race, class, mental health, education, addiction, family and community, etc. Gordon began his life with all of these factors on the low end of the spectrum or stacked against him. I'd call him an idiot if he was raised by a doctor and a professor in La Jolla, CA with a maid, tutors, access to health care, regular healthy meals, white, etc. and he still screwed up repeatedly. Ultimately everyone lives with the choices they make despite the list of factors. I don't want to waste my life blaming the cards I have been dealt. Have to make it work regardless. Edited July 23, 2018 by Lfod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I wish I had the talent and opportunity that Josh Gordon had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 27 minutes ago, Lfod said: Will the Browns still be amazing guys? Ultimately everyone lives with the choices they make despite the list of factors. I don't want to waste my life blaming the cards I have been dealt. Have to make it work regardless. The interesting question is would you have the same mindset if you were dealt a different hand of cards. Impossible to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: The interesting question is would you have the same mindset if you were dealt a different hand of cards. Impossible to say. I won't deny that some people are born into a disadvantage. In extreme cases some people are born into a nightmare. People can and do over come that extreme adversity and I respect it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 8 hours ago, eball said: Aside from simply possessing an admirable benevolence towards mankind, may I ask why? It seems to me this idiot has had many chances to do the right thing... Basic benevolance as you said, but also for selfish reasons wanting to see what he’s capable of when truly developed. He looks like a generational talent who would easily be the best in the league (has the skill to be the best ever) if he could just get it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 13 hours ago, Doc Brown said: The interesting question is would you have the same mindset if you were dealt a different hand of cards. Impossible to say. No one cares about excuses. Many are forgotten. No one is special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 Per Tony Grossi, he’s had recent court dates for child support that he can’t pay because he has no income (only gets game checks) and it’s leading to anxiety that he can’t cope with without drugs/alcohol. He knows this is his last chance and is afraid to relapse and fail a test. He said this happened last time he was taken to court over child support, when he was reinstated conditionally with the 4game suspension and then decided to just go to rehab. He’s back in rehab now. Typically an agent would front money in this situation but he says he doesn’t have one right now (not sure if true) because he’s been dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 15 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Gordon is why the NFL will never take weed off the banned substance list. He says he smoke and/or drank before EVERY GAME HE PLAYED. That's what they fear most. The league is without a doubt leaning toward being more permissive toward weed, not less. As more states make it legal there will be fewer reasons to be stricter on this particular issue. It is widely accepted that weed is not a performance enhancing drug compared to drugs that do actually enhance performance, such as steroids and growth hormone drugs (HGH). The stance the league is taking toward this drug is changing to being more permissive. The league and the union have been negotiating to finding a common ground moving toward being more lenient than more strict on this issue. The NBA doesn't include testing for weed in its drug protocol. It hasn't hurt the popularity of the league. Whether one's feelings are pro or con towards weed society is inexorably moving toward being more accepting of it. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/10927282/renegotiation-nfl-drug-policy-reduce-marijuana-punishments 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I'm definitely interested in this. Good choice by HBO, should be entertaining. I always wished the Bills would be on this show. It couldnt have made them any worse over the last 15 years, and we'd finally get a glimpse into how the franchise operates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, JohnC said: The league is without a doubt leaning toward being more permissive toward weed, not less. As more states make it legal there will be fewer reasons to be stricter on this particular issue. It is widely accepted that weed is not a performance enhancing drug compared to drugs that do actually enhance performance, such as steroids and growth hormone drugs (HGH). The stance the league is taking toward this drug is changing to being more permissive. The league and the union have been negotiating to finding a common ground moving toward being more lenient than more strict on this issue. The NBA doesn't include testing for weed in its drug protocol. It hasn't hurt the popularity of the league. Whether one's feelings are pro or con towards weed society is inexorably moving toward being more accepting of it. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/10927282/renegotiation-nfl-drug-policy-reduce-marijuana-punishments I'm certainly not arguing against what you are saying about the benefits of medicinal MJ. But the league is not more permissive than when that article was written 4 years ago. They may be "looking into it", but that's it. As I said, I bet owners are fearful that players will be playing intoxicated, as Gordon always was (and as he says lots of other players are as well). With the move towards more contracts having a higher percentage of money guaranteed, owners won't want the possibility that more of their huge investments (player contracts) would be at risk of injury because players may be under the influence while playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Per Tony Grossi, he’s had recent court dates for child support that he can’t pay because he has no income (only gets game checks) and it’s leading to anxiety that he can’t cope with without drugs/alcohol. He knows this is his last chance and is afraid to relapse and fail a test. He said this happened last time he was taken to court over child support, when he was reinstated conditionally with the 4game suspension and then decided to just go to rehab. He’s back in rehab now. Typically an agent would front money in this situation but he says he doesn’t have one right now (not sure if true) because he’s been dropped. I usually think people who have screwed themselves like Gordon has, I don't really care for. However, with Gordon, it seems that he's being genuine in really wanting to change and is battling through the struggles. I'm pulling for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Per Tony Grossi, he’s had recent court dates for child support that he can’t pay because he has no income (only gets game checks) and it’s leading to anxiety that he can’t cope with without drugs/alcohol. He knows this is his last chance and is afraid to relapse and fail a test. He said this happened last time he was taken to court over child support, when he was reinstated conditionally with the 4game suspension and then decided to just go to rehab. He’s back in rehab now. Typically an agent would front money in this situation but he says he doesn’t have one right now (not sure if true) because he’s been dropped. He's been paid millions since he got into the league. Shouldn't need new income to pay child support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) Hue said they have had no contact with Gordon at all since his tweet. His tweet message was to the team as well as the fans and they never talked to him. Edited July 25, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 On 7/23/2018 at 10:54 PM, whatdrought said: Basic benevolance as you said, but also for selfish reasons wanting to see what he’s capable of when truly developed. He looks like a generational talent who would easily be the best in the league (has the skill to be the best ever) if he could just get it together. That's a huge stretch. He had one good season. That's all. On 7/24/2018 at 7:57 AM, JohnC said: The league is without a doubt leaning toward being more permissive toward weed, not less. As more states make it legal there will be fewer reasons to be stricter on this particular issue. It is widely accepted that weed is not a performance enhancing drug compared to drugs that do actually enhance performance, such as steroids and growth hormone drugs (HGH). The stance the league is taking toward this drug is changing to being more permissive. The league and the union have been negotiating to finding a common ground moving toward being more lenient than more strict on this issue. The NBA doesn't include testing for weed in its drug protocol. It hasn't hurt the popularity of the league. Whether one's feelings are pro or con towards weed society is inexorably moving toward being more accepting of it. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/10927282/renegotiation-nfl-drug-policy-reduce-marijuana-punishments Weed is still banned at the federal level. Until that changes I doubt the league will change its policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MJS said: That's a huge stretch. He had one good season. That's all. Weed is still banned at the federal level. Until that changes I doubt the league will change its policy. Gordon had one “good” season? He played 14 games that season - and led the league in receiving yards. And he had garbage at QB. (Notably Calvin Johnson played that year.) That’s a long way beyond just “good”. Edited July 25, 2018 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 On 7/24/2018 at 12:29 PM, Mr. WEO said: He's been paid millions since he got into the league. Shouldn't need new income to pay child support. ..$5.29 mil pre-tax probably leaves him net of $2.65 mil which I'd bet is long gone.... Cleveland Browns WR Josh Gordon has career earnings of $5.29M over four seasons, which ranks 652nd among active NFL players entering 2018. He earned $377K in 2017, which ranked 149th among WRs and 1380th overall in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ..$5.29 mil pre-tax probably leaves him net of $2.65 mil which I'd bet is long gone.... Cleveland Browns WR Josh Gordon has career earnings of $5.29M over four seasons, which ranks 652nd among active NFL players entering 2018. He earned $377K in 2017, which ranked 149th among WRs and 1380th overall in the NFL. They don't determine your child support based on your income as it compares to other people at your job. I'm guessing it's a couple thousand a month. You just documented that he made 377K last season. I bet the judge agreed he can and must pay what he owes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: They don't determine your child support based on your income as it compares to other people at your job. I'm guessing it's a couple thousand a month. You just documented that he made 377K last season. I bet the judge agreed he can and must pay what he owes.... ...certainly agree and was not implying anything else.....say $377k last year was a net after taxes of $190k or about $16k/mo......not much sympathy from any judge.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, MJS said: That's a huge stretch. He had one good season. That's all. Weed is still banned at the federal level. Until that changes I doubt the league will change its policy. I disagree. Odds are that when the next contract is negotiated there will be a more lax policy toward marijuana. As more states legalize this particular product the likelihood increases that the league will have a much more lenient approach to weed. As I stated before the NBA doesn't test for this particular product. It hasn't hurt their standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, JohnC said: I disagree. Odds are that when the next contract is negotiated there will be a more lax policy toward marijuana. As more states legalize this particular product the likelihood increases that the league will have a much more lenient approach to weed. As I stated before the NBA doesn't test for this particular product. It hasn't hurt their standing. There is a difference between pre-existing, like the NBA, and changing, which the NFL would be doing. Is it hypocritical? Maybe. But you know the moment the NFL makes that change the media would blast it, noting the "NFL Goes Green...Condones Pot!" Parent groups would get whipped into a frenzy like a poked beehive. The backlash would be enormous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 29 minutes ago, The Red King said: There is a difference between pre-existing, like the NBA, and changing, which the NFL would be doing. Is it hypocritical? Maybe. But you know the moment the NFL makes that change the media would blast it, noting the "NFL Goes Green...Condones Pot!" Parent groups would get whipped into a frenzy like a poked beehive. The backlash would be enormous. I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. Changing drug laws with respect to weed is steadily happening all over the country. In the not too distant future there will be a change in league policy moving in the direction of leniency toward the drug. What is holding up the change in policy is that the league is trying to use this issue to extract concessions in other areas. https://www.theringer.com/2017/8/1/16095328/nfl-marijuana-pain-management-collective-bargaining-4d940deee498 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 3 hours ago, JohnC said: I disagree. Odds are that when the next contract is negotiated there will be a more lax policy toward marijuana. As more states legalize this particular product the likelihood increases that the league will have a much more lenient approach to weed. As I stated before the NBA doesn't test for this particular product. It hasn't hurt their standing. It will still be a banned substance. Maybe less harsh penalties. The owners won't budge on this because the NFLPA refuses meaningful HGH testing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Just now, Mr. WEO said: It will still be a banned substance. Maybe less harsh penalties. The owners won't budge on this because the NFLPA refuses meaningful HGH testing as well. The threshold will probably be raised before a disciplinary action would be taken. So it won't be banned so much as be limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, JohnC said: The threshold will probably be raised before a disciplinary action would be taken. So it won't be banned so much as be limited. that would surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, JohnC said: I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. Changing drug laws with respect to weed is steadily happening all over the country. In the not too distant future there will be a change in league policy moving in the direction of leniency toward the drug. What is holding up the change in policy is that the league is trying to use this issue to extract concessions in other areas. https://www.theringer.com/2017/8/1/16095328/nfl-marijuana-pain-management-collective-bargaining-4d940deee498 Again, it's not about right or wrong, it's about public opinion. The NFL already has PR nightmares (see Anthem Protests), they're not going to outright condone pot right now when the backlash from parents and activist groups would be scathing. I'm curious, do you not think there would be severe backlash, or do you think the NFL would push through despite it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, The Red King said: Again, it's not about right or wrong, it's about public opinion. The NFL already has PR nightmares (see Anthem Protests), they're not going to outright condone pot right now when the backlash from parents and activist groups would be scathing. I'm curious, do you not think there would be severe backlash, or do you think the NFL would push through despite it? Public opinion has dramatically changed over the past few years The public is much more tolerant of the drug now than in the past. And as time goes by it becomes even more tolerant. If you believe differently that's fine. Edited July 26, 2018 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: Public opinion has dramatically changed over the past few years The public is much more tolerant of the drug now than in the past. And as time goes by it becomes even more tolerant. If you believe differently that's fine. So, you don't think there will be signifigant public backlash from parent and activist groups should the NFL condone it? Even if the general public is more accepting, there would still be a massive backlash from a vocal minority. Would the NFL want to face that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, The Red King said: So, you don't think there will be signifigant public backlash from parent and activist groups should the NFL condone it? Even if the general public is more accepting, there would still be a massive backlash from a vocal minority. Would the NFL want to face that? I'm confident that at this point the public doesn't give a dam about the league's drug policy, especially as it pertains to marijuana. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, JohnC said: I'm confident that at this point the public doesn't give a dam about the league's drug policy, especially as it pertains to marijuana. Im against legalized MJ. That said it doen nothing to improve performance or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 21 minutes ago, The Red King said: So, you don't think there will be signifigant public backlash from parent and activist groups should the NFL condone it? Even if the general public is more accepting, there would still be a massive backlash from a vocal minority. Would the NFL want to face that? The parents are baked. The mj industry is blowing up. Smoke > Drink all day long. Some have things to do the next day 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 26, 2018 Author Share Posted July 26, 2018 ?♂️ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 The first episode airs on Tuesday, August 7th, at 10:00pm. Will definitely be following this one this year. Should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 53 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: ?♂️ ...until Tyrod doesn't throw to him. XD I'm fascinated that a team that went 0-16 is getting more love and higher marks from the press then a team that went 9-7 and broke a decades-long playoff drought. Just what's in that Cleveland Kool-Aid? ...zero to hero, I suppose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 REMINDER: This premiers this Tuesday night (8/7/18) at 10:00pm on HBO! It's getting close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 I wonder if Corey Coleman's trade is featured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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