Is "faith" a requirement under McD?

[Domdab99]

7 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

What about Christians scares you that much?

 

lol where to start?

 

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for those who actually can and do live by Christ's words. Or at least honestly strive to do so.

But the vast majority of Christians decidedly do not. 

 

And yes, I know you can say that about other religions, too. 

 

That's the point. 

[IDBillzFan]

2 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

 

lol where to start?

 

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for those who actually can and do live by Christ's words. Or at least honestly strive to do so.

But the vast majority of Christians decidedly do not. 

 

And yes, I know you can say that about other religions, too. 

 

That's the point. 

 

You still haven't answered the question. What is it about the average Christian that scares you so much? What are you afraid of them doing?

[Domdab99]

5 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

You still haven't answered the question. What is it about the average Christian that scares you so much? What are you afraid of them doing?

 

Exactly what they're doing right now in this administration. That should explain it fine. 

[IDBillzFan]

 

1 minute ago, Domdab99 said:

 

Exactly what they're doing right now in this administration. That should explain it fine. 

 

That literally explains nothing. Some specifics would be helpful. 

[Domdab99]

The racist, xenophobic, gun-loving, education-hating, environment-killing, authoritarian, myopic hypocrisy of it all. This administration, and those who support it, are literally anti-Jesus's philosophy while unironically spouting his words.

 

Not everyone, of course. But it does seem they like candidates who are not only moronic, but pederasty and sometimes criminal. 

 

Hope that clears it up. 

[GunnerBill]

I hope it isn't and I don't believe it is.  I believe character is very important to them, but I don't believe they would discriminate against a person because he is an atheist.  I certainly hope they wouldn't. I would immediately lose all respect for them if that is the case.

 

I am an atheist having grown up in a religious environment and attended a religious school. I don't force my atheism on anyone but believe I should be able to talk openly about being atheist without any fear of how people will then treat me. Just as I believe Christians, Muslims, Jewish people and any other faith groups should too.  My guess from what we know about McDermott is that he as a Christian feels the same.  

[Freddie's Dead]

13 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Not sure about faith being a prerequisite but he clearly hates Jews. Passed over Rosen and not one Himmelfarb or Finklestein on the entire 90 man roster. 

This is a long time Bills thing.  Remember Leonard Cohen?

[Sky Diver]

To suggest that the Bills have a religious litmus test is frankly rather absurd.

 

McDermott encourages players to open up about themselves with their teammates. Here is what Jordan Matthews had to say:

 

“Receiver Jordan Matthews took a risk when his turn arrived in Week 4. Matthews sent in the usual pictures—his mom and dad, brother, fiancée. And then …  a photo of a cross, to represent his Christian faith. “When I sent them the cross, I was like, I wonder if they’re going to let me talk about [my faith]?” Matthews says. “Because this is essentially who I am.”

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/nfl/2017/12/01/buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-team-building-through-storytelling

 

Not sure why Matthews’ would have felt uncomfortable if it were a Christian locker room.

[Aussie Joe]

4 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

The racist, xenophobic, gun-loving, education-hating, environment-killing, authoritarian, myopic hypocrisy of it all. This administration, and those who support it, are literally anti-Jesus's philosophy while unironically spouting his words.

 

Not everyone, of course. But it does seem they like candidates who are not only moronic, but pederasty and sometimes criminal. 

 

Hope that clears it up. 

 

Don’t sugarcoat it man... what are you trying to say?...

[thenorthremembers]

4 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

The racist, xenophobic, gun-loving, education-hating, environment-killing, authoritarian, myopic hypocrisy of it all. This administration, and those who support it, are literally anti-Jesus's philosophy while unironically spouting his words.

 

Not everyone, of course. But it does seem they like candidates who are not only moronic, but pederasty and sometimes criminal. 

 

Hope that clears it up. 

None of that is relegated to Christians or Conservatives.   Everything you mentioned above is a product of humans, not a product of faith.  I would also say that the hedonism displayed by those hiding under the guise of loving education and the environment has been just as destructive to society as misguided faith. 

 

The Black Panthers fought for racial equality while loving guns and enslaving women.  Liberals spouted free love and expanding your mind while trading STDs and developing drug addictions; in some of the most extreme cases robbing banks and blowing up government buildings.  But that was heoric because it was clothed in changing the world.

 

Bottom line is people are incredibly flawed and it didnt take being a Christian.  You just happen to assign the root cause to things you personally dislike, which is another flaw in humans.

Edited May 15, 2018 by thenorthremembers

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Is Faith in regards to religion

 

Or is Faith buy in to what the bills are trying to put together

 

 

 

 

He doesn't say "Be faithful to the process." It's trust. Trust the process.

 

He's talking about religion.

 

But I don't think he's ever said others need to have faith in God. He's just talking about his values. I mean, do you think he'd exclude a good player who'd applied for emancipation from his parents? Or divorced?

 

He's just saying that football should only be behind your very few most important priorities. If it's Faith, Family, Sizzurp, Game of Thrones on high-def TV, chicks, booze, lawn darts and football, you're not the kind of guy they want.

[Sky Diver]

 Nick Saban openly talks about his faith. Maybe there is a connection between faith and great coaches.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/04/watch_nick_saban_explain_how_h.amp

[CSBill]

18 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

None of that is relegated to Christians or Conservatives.   Everything you mentioned above is a product of humans, not a product of faith.  I would also say that the hedonism displayed by those hiding under the guise of loving education and the environment has been just as destructive to society as misguided faith. 

 

The Black Panthers fought for racial equality while loving guns and enslaving women.  Liberals spouted free love and expanding your mind while trading STDs and developing drug addictions; in some of the most extreme cases robbing banks and blowing up government buildings.  But that was heoric because it was clothed in changing the world.

 

Bottom line is people are incredibly flawed and it didnt take being a Christian.  You just happen to assign the root cause to things you personally dislike, which is another flaw in humans.

 

this

12 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

He doesn't say "Be faithful to the process." It's trust. Trust the process.

 

He's talking about religion.

 

But I don't think he's ever said others need to have faith in God. He's just talking about his values. I mean, do you think he'd exclude a good player who'd applied for emancipation from his parents? Or divorced?

 

He's just saying that football should only be behind your very few most important priorities. If it's Faith, Family, Sizzurp, Game of Thrones on high-def TV, chicks, booze, lawn darts and football, you're not the kind of guy they want.

 

and this

[Sky Diver]

And then there is Bear Bryant.

 

“I was curious about the role faith and religion played on his Alabama teams and asked Nathan how often legendary Crimson Tide coach Bear Bryant discussed the topics.

“He made us go to church,” Nathan recalled. “He brought around the people we needed to be around – the chaplains, the preachers. He talked about it all the time because he believed in family and he tried to create that family atmosphere.””

 

http://gridironnow.com/tony-nathan-on-bear-bryant-faith-woodlawn/

[Sky Diver]

Virginia coach Tony Bennett.

 

“Coach Bennett says his team is led by 5 pillars — Humility, Passion, Unity, Servanthood, and Thankfulness. The pillars were a creation of his father Dick Bennett, was a longtime basketball coach at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, Wisconsin and Washington State. Virginia players said the pillars are discussed and applied for basketball every day.

They’re so important to the success to our program,” Bennett said in 2015 . It’s not just lip service, we really believe in them. They’ve influenced me and I’ve used them for my program every year. I think these pillars are what truly matters. Whether you’re a believer or not, those are significant for a team. They’re (posted) in our locker room, and they’re everything to our program. To be great in basketball, those things have to be there.”

https://sportsspectrum.com/sport/basketball/2018/03/15/virginia-coach-tony-bennett-says-his-faith-in-christ-is-the-greatest-truth-i-know/

 

[CommonCents]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

Virginia coach Tony Bennett.

 

“Coach Bennett says his team is led by 5 pillars — Humility, Passion, Unity, Servanthood, and Thankfulness. The pillars were a creation of his father Dick Bennett, was a longtime basketball coach at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, Wisconsin and Washington State. Virginia players said the pillars are discussed and applied for basketball every day.

They’re so important to the success to our program,” Bennett said in 2015 . It’s not just lip service, we really believe in them. They’ve influenced me and I’ve used them for my program every year. I think these pillars are what truly matters. Whether you’re a believer or not, those are significant for a team. They’re (posted) in our locker room, and they’re everything to our program. To be great in basketball, those things have to be there.”

https://sportsspectrum.com/sport/basketball/2018/03/15/virginia-coach-tony-bennett-says-his-faith-in-christ-is-the-greatest-truth-i-know/

 

Maybe didn’t have enough faith to beat a 16 seed. 

[eball]

11 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Hopefully chaplin they brought in administer help to all faiths like military chaplains do or even just provide guidance when asked by non-believers.

 

It sounds like the Bills' chaplain is very open to providing guidance/support to players of all or no religious faith, judging by the article cited earlier in this thread.

 

I understand religion is one of "those" topics -- I appreciate that most of the contributors to this thread have been able to understand what I was getting at without making this a thread in which to praise or bash religious faith.  I want to believe that an atheist who works hard, supports his teammates, loves his family, and plays good football has a place on this team.

[Sky Diver]

Buffalo’s own Frank Reich.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.pennlive.com/philadelphiaeagles/index.ssf/2016/05/philadelphia_eagles_offensive_1.amp

8 minutes ago, eball said:

 

It sounds like the Bills' chaplain is very open to providing guidance/support to players of all or no religious faith, judging by the article cited earlier in this thread.

 

I understand religion is one of "those" topics -- I appreciate that most of the contributors to this thread have been able to understand what I was getting at without making this a thread in which to praise or bash religious faith.  I want to believe that an atheist who works hard, supports his teammates, loves his family, and plays good football has a place on this team.

 

Frankly, I’m not sure why it’s even a question or a concern. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Rochesterfan]

13 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/24/inside-the-bills-team-chaplain-len-vanden-bos-blends-faith-and-football/

 

McDermott hired a full time team Chaplin just after he arrived.  I think is may have been the 1st time in organization history, if I remember correctly.

 

 

 

 

I believe the Bills have had multiple team Chaplins in the past.

 

Yes McDermott hired him along with a bunch of new positions as they moved out the old guard.

 

There are several articles talking about how every major sports franchise has a chaplain. 

 

This is not a faith or McDermott decision - Len has been chaplain for many other teams not just the Bills.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Rochesterfan

[SouthNYfan]

9 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

 

Good job reading my post.

I suggested two books for somebody to read.

I actually have read the Quran, the Torah (which is genesis-deuto), the King James version, as well as the catholic canon (which includes many other books prior to the Reformation).

I've read the Pali Canon as well as the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

I've studied Hinduism, Shintoism, Taoism/Daoism, as well as the Greek and Roman mythologies.

Feel free to tell me what books I "forgot to read".

 

Since you've read the "book that makes a Christian" please tell me more about any OTHER religious texts/scriptures you've taken the time to read prior to making your decision on which to follow/not follow.

Or do you just base your opinion of other religions on what the news media tells you?

 

Keep on keepin' on your "enlightened" road that I'm sure was the one your parents set you on and you never questioned it or felt the need to see where it was actually heading though.

 

6 hours ago, Sig1Hunter said:

Why do you care which religion I choose to follow/ not follow? Why do I, or anyone else,  have to justify myself/themselves to you? You are the one that, for some reason ,  feels the need to denigrate those who believe in something bigger than themselves in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with that.  Why? That's a rhetorical "why", btw. I already know the answer. 

 

Here, as reference, I've included my ENTIRE previous post, which you decided to only cut out and quote part of it out if context.

 

I don't care which you follow, I asked because YOU felt the need to assume that I had not read other religious texts before making up my mind on these things, and was being closed minded, so I merely pointed out that I have, and actually done much more broad research than you, who seems to have done zero research into anything other than what you follow.

 

Good try.

[Rochesterfan]

12 hours ago, Limeaid said:

"Faith" does not always mean faith is religious terms.  It is funny that a country founded by many whose many ancestors left Europe due to religious persecution repeat same thing in new country.

 

Hopefully chaplin they brought in administer help to all faiths like military chaplains do or even just provide guidance when asked by non-believers.

 

He does - just as many chaplains do - Hospitals, schools, even the US Govt has chaplains that serve all faiths in their guidance.  Again this is not unique to the Bills and it was not new to McDermott.

 

Faith is important, but I think people want to believe it drove decisions that they disagree with - even though the evidence is contrary to that.  Rosen was the most ready, yet 3 teams passed on him not because of faith, but upside and coachability.  The team that drafted him - twice tried to move up to take Allen first - this is not a McDermott thing - this was a player thing.

[SouthNYfan]

32 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

I believe the Bills have had multiple team Chaplins in the past.

 

Yes McDermott hired him along with a bunch of new positions as they moved out the old guard.

 

There are several articles talking about how every major sports franchise has a chaplain. 

 

This is not a faith or McDermott decision - Len has been chaplain for many other teams not just the Bills.

 

 

 

Yeah I'm not concerned that a chaplain was hired.

As you said, it's pretty common.

My concern is that an environment is created that REQUIRES a player to be one of Christian faith, and that is put at a premium over other things, such as talent.

I'm not saying I don't want a clean, drama free locker room, but if a coach happens to be very religious, and brings that to the locker room openly, along with a known preference for players to have religious faith, it seems it would alienate players who do not follow the same religious path.

 

As I said before, many who had issues with Kaepernick, Rosen, or others brining politics to the formal field, seem to be the same ones and have no issue with religion being brought into the same room.

 

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Yeah I'm not concerned that a chaplain was hired.

As you said, it's pretty common.

My concern is that an environment is created that REQUIRES a player to be one of Christian faith, and that is put at a premium over other things, such as talent.

I'm not saying I don't want a clean, drama free locker room, but if a coach happens to be very religious, and brings that to the locker room openly, along with a known preference for players to have religious faith, it seems it would alienate players who do not follow the same religious path.

 

As I said before, many who had issues with Kaepernick, Rosen, or others brining politics to the formal field, seem to be the same ones and have no issue with religion being brought into the same room.

 

 

History is replete with coaches, many of whom have been very successful, who are very open about their faith and use Christian principles in their leadership. I have named a few.

 

This topic smacks of a witch hunt.

[SouthNYfan]

3 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

History is replete with coaches, many of whom have been very successful, who are very open about their faith and use Christian principles in their leadership. I have named a few.

 

This topic smacks of a witch hunt.

 

Open about your faith and principles in your leadership is not the same as religious faith being required in your players.

 

You of all people calling out a witch hunt after the Rosen roasting you did about his political views is the definition of irony.

[Sky Diver]

4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Open about your faith and principles in your leadership is not the same as religious faith being required in your players.

 

You of all people calling out a witch hunt after the Rosen roasting you did about his political views is the definition of irony.

 

Give me an example where the Bills have used religious faith as a litmus test.

 

You are mad that the Bills didn't sign Rosen so you are lashing out against Christians? That's what it sounds like.

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sky Diver

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

Give me an example where the Bills have used religious faith as a litmus test.

 

 

The op was questioning whether or not religious faith, specifically Christianity, is a requirement in McDermott's locker room.

They are signs that others have pointed out in the thread that could be heading in that direction.

It is a CONCERN that it might become a thing.

 

You seem to think that it isn't a problem if it's a requirement.

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

The op was questioning whether or not religious faith, specifically Christianity, is a requirement in McDermott's locker room.

They are signs that others have pointed out in the thread that could be heading in that direction.

It is a CONCERN that it might become a thing.

 

You seem to think that it isn't a problem if it's a requirement.

Well as I asked up thread, are all the new guys men of faith? Murphy? Davis? Ivory? Star? Kerley?

 

The discussion is interesting but doesn’t hold much weight unless he is indeed bringing in an abnormal number of a certain faith. I see AJ and Allen...

[Sky Diver]

7 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

The op was questioning whether or not religious faith, specifically Christianity, is a requirement in McDermott's locker room.

They are signs that others have pointed out in the thread that could be heading in that direction.

It is a CONCERN that it might become a thing.

 

You seem to think that it isn't a problem if it's a requirement.

 

Not sure why you would think that I believe there should be a religious litmus test to play for the Bills.

 

What are the signs you are seeing that indicate that the Bills have such a test?

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sky Diver

[SouthNYfan]

3 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Well as I asked up thread, are all the new guys men of faith? Murphy? Davis? Ivory? Star? Kerley?

 

The discussion is interesting but doesn’t hold much weight unless he is indeed bringing in an abnormal number of a certain faith. I see AJ and Allen...

 

I don't disagree.

The op asked if it was required.

I feel it shouldn't be required.

Some others have posted signs it might lead that way, but it's not fully confirmed obviously.

 

1 minute ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Not sure why you would think that I believe there should be a religious litmus test to play for the Bills.

 

What are the signs you are seeing that indicate that the Bills have such a test?

 

You don't comprehend what you read.

Feel free to reread my post that you quoted, since I answered the question your just asked me, twice.

[Sky Diver]

3 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I don't disagree.

The op asked if it was required.

I feel it shouldn't be required.

Some others have posted signs it might lead that way, but it's not fully confirmed obviously.

 

 

You don't comprehend what you read.

Feel free to reread my post that you quoted, since I answered the question your just asked me, twice.

 

Not sure what these "signs" are you are alluding to.

 

So you think that the Bills didn't draft Rosen because he is Jewish? That's a pretty outrageous and silly claim.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

14 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

They are signs that others have pointed out in the thread that could be heading in that direction.

 

No one's pointed to anything concrete. Not one person. All we've seen is wild and baseless speculations.

 

Until someone has PROOF, I'm not going to clutch pearls.

 

[oldmanfan]

I am absolutely certain that McD and his bosses would not set up a work environment that could be sued for religious discrimination.

[Sky Diver]

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

No one's pointed to anything concrete. Not one person. All we've seen is wild and baseless speculations.

 

Until someone has PROOF, I'm not going to clutch pearls.

 

 

I posted how Jordan Matthews felt uncomfortable about sharing his faith at team meeting, but the folks with the pitchforks have chosen to ignore it.

 

He wasn't resigned, by the way.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sky Diver

[SoCal Deek]

What the? Born Again Christians are not known for, or categorized by, their hatred of Jews. Where is this stuff coming from?

[Rochesterfan]

30 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Yeah I'm not concerned that a chaplain was hired.

As you said, it's pretty common.

My concern is that an environment is created that REQUIRES a player to be one of Christian faith, and that is put at a premium over other things, such as talent.

I'm not saying I don't want a clean, drama free locker room, but if a coach happens to be very religious, and brings that to the locker room openly, along with a known preference for players to have religious faith, it seems it would alienate players who do not follow the same religious path.

 

As I said before, many who had issues with Kaepernick, Rosen, or others brining politics to the formal field, seem to be the same ones and have no issue with religion being brought into the same room.

 

 

 

But it doesn’t and it need not create a Christian environment.  It allows a place for people of any faith and no faith to come together and talk.  It allows those of strong faith to form bonds off the field both individually and with families.  

 

Mostly it it gives a place for those that want or need it support and comfort.  It is not a requirement and not everyone partakes, but if you watch the NFL and listen post game - you hear a lot of praise to God/Jesus and you see large groups of players from both teams gathering and kneeling and saying a prayer - same thing if a guy has a serious injury.

 

These guys play an incredibly violent game and sometimes groups of them look for something more, but as the Chaplain even says in the article that talked about his hiring - he is not there to force anything - he is there if needed to provide whatever guidance that individual needs.

 

At no point has McDermott put stated anything that puts faith over talent.  He has definitely stated he wants team over individuals, but I think faith is his driving guide not the team.  McDermott has stated that he wants to know each player as an individual so he can find what motivates them - I think the team appreciates that.

 

Many coaches are highly religious and gives thanks to God/Jesus/Mary - some are even over the top - look at Tony Dungy - yet they still reach the team and are successful.

 

I truly think this is a non-issue that people want to use as motivation for why a guy like Rosen was not the pick and I think it is wrong.

[ddaryl]

12 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

Except contract players like this don't apply to that. But, hey, cool

 

 

Please explain how someone cold contract a certain person based on religious belief, but not fall into the category of discriminating against other faiths.

 

Do you encourage the practice ?

[Bill from NYC]

16 hours ago, eball said:

If there is one non-football thing I've noticed about McD it is the emphasis he places on faith when discussing the makeup of the team.  I believe he uses the phrase "family, faith, football" frequently which begs the question -- is there a place for a player on this roster who isn't a devout Christian or (perish the thought) is agnostic or an atheist?  An aspect unique to sports is the open practice of religion before, during, and after games.

 

Obviously McD can't come out and openly discriminate on the basis of religion but that's not what I'm asking.  I don't think this is a silly question and I'm not making fun of anyone -- I'm curious to hear others' thoughts and I wonder if a media member would ever ask him that question (i.e., can a player who doesn't claim religious faith as a cornerstone of his life fit into "the process" with the Buffalo Bills)?

I think that you are making something out of nothing.

 

Do you listen at all to McDermott? He is trying to be a carbon copy of Nick Saban, complete with the hand clapping and the "process." He means "faith" in the system.

 

Coach Saban demands that players do their individual jobs and trust the system and their teammates. He can sell it to his players because it works. He wins and he is going to keep on winning because of his system.  I once heard Coach Saban say that he doesn't prepare as much for other teams as much as he has the players practice perfect execution of what THEY are supposed to do. I expect to hear this from McDermott real soon.

[eball]

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that you are making something out of nothing.

 

Do you listen at all to McDermott? He is trying to be a carbon copy of Nick Saban, complete with the hand clapping and the "process." He means "faith" in the system.

 

Coach Saban demands that players do their individual jobs and trust the system and their teammates. He can sell it to his players because it works. He wins and he is going to keep on winning because of his system.  I once heard Coach Saban say that he doesn't prepare as much for other teams as much as he has the players practice perfect execution of what THEY are supposed to do. I expect to hear this from McDermott real soon.

 

Bill, good to hear from you!  That's why I posed the question; to encourage discussion and different viewpoints!  I'm not "making anything" out of anything -- it's simply something I've noticed.  You might be dead on the money, who knows?

[Wroughting]

What a weird juxtaposition this thread is. Non-christians speculating without evidence, Christians asking for more. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, I think  McDermott prefers Christians, but mostly from a team building perspective. Belief can be a powerful thing, we'll see how it plays out. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Wroughting said:

What a weird juxtaposition this thread is. Non-christians speculating without evidence, Christians asking for more. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, I think  McDermott prefers Christians, but mostly from a team building perspective. Belief can be a powerful thing, we'll see how it plays out. 

On the contrary, an evangelical Christian should want to be around non-Christians....thus the whole ‘evangelical’ thing. ?