Domdab99 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) Riley Macatee at The ringer has written an interesting article pulling various data points together to show that Josh Allen will likely be a bust. Here is the article. Allen is the embodiment of an old-fashioned, “stats are for losers” approach to evaluating prospects. While draftniks like Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper Jr. rave about Allen’s prototypical size, arm strength, and raw potential, Allen’s production in college gives no indication that he will be a franchise quarterback in the pros. As far as statistical models go, there isn’t a single one that projects Allen as even a first-round pick, much less the top overall player in the draft. And it’s not just his much-maligned completion percentage—let’s take a look under the hood. One interesting chart he uses: Comparing 2018 QB Prospects Player QBASE DYAR Projection Rosen-Olbrecht PFF "NFL Throws" Bill Connelly Success Rate IQR Final-Year QBR Passing S&P+ Baker Mayfield 1st 3rd 2nd 1st 1st 1st 1st Sam Darnold 4th 1st 1st 2nd 6th 4th 2nd Josh Rosen 3rd 2nd 4th 6th 5th 5th 5th Mason Rudolph 5th 6th 3rd 3rd 2nd 3rd 4th Lamar Jackson 2nd 5th 6th 5th 4th 2nd 3rd Luke Falk 6th 7th N/A 4th 3rd 6th 6th Josh Allen 7th 4th 5th 7th 7th 7th 7th I really don't want the Bills drafting Josh Allen. He's most likely going to be a huge bust. Let's hope the Browns actually do draft him. Edited April 13, 2018 by Domdab99 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Could you make your font bigger? I can barely read this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Yeah...he's not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Maybe I am missing it, but what are the 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc projections, projecting? Round? Rank among other qb's? What does it mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Maybe I am missing it, but what are the 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc projections, projecting? Round? Rank among other qb's? What does it mean? Appears to be rank, not round. Unless they all conveniently have 1 guy per round 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Robotulism Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 J.P. Losman 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Maybe I am missing it, but what are the 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc projections, projecting? Round? Rank among other qb's? What does it mean? read the article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: read the article I thought you read it. Don't you remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 But isn't saying that looking at just intangibles and not at stats is bad evaluation, kind of the same thing as looking at just stats? Isn't the best way to look at the sum of the parts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 J**** C***** enough already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, whatdrought said: But isn't saying that looking at just intangibles and not at stats is bad evaluation, kind of the same thing as looking at just stats? Isn't the best way to look at the sum of the parts? Yes, and we know that a big arm and athletic ability mean nothing if you can't throw the ball accurately or have poor decision-making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Yes, and we know that a big arm and athletic ability mean nothing if you can't throw the ball accurately or have poor decision-making. Yes, that is true. However, you don't know that he can't throw the ball accurately, nor that he has poor decision-making. He was a college QB for two years. In his first year, he took over for a team that went 2-10 the year before, took them to the MWC Championship game and a pretty big bowl game, going 8-5. He was named the 2nd team MWC QB and the MWC player of the year going into this last season. His second year, he lost every skill position player he had- four of whom played in the NFL. Of course his numbers weren't going to be as good. I can't wait for this to be over. When Josh Allen is good, do you guys have to face any sort of music? This is so tiring. Biff from Tonawanda knows more than NFL scouts and executives, I get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadonkadonk Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Nobody knows including the GMs, the writer, and the OP. When the greatest QB of all time goes in the sixth round, Blackledge and Eason go before Marino, Leaf and Mirer one pick after Manning and Bledsoe, and guys like Romo and Warner go undrafted; it proves that none of these guys know who will succeed in the NFL. You can not compare Darnold and Allen without comparing the supporting casts. Since 2010 Wyoming has had 10 players drafted none higher than the 4th round. USC has had 99, 21 of which went in the first round. Drafting a QB every year is the surest means to finding a franchise guy. Just keep biting the apple no matter what other needs you have. Can you win without a Brady? Yes. But you need either a generationally great defense or a superior defense and a very very good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 So if Allen becomes a franchise Qb and Mayfield does not, does analytics in football die? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Its not a science. You can’t look at stats to measure someone’s heart, drive and future surrounding cast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 For me their are only 3 QB's Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen. If we don't get one of those guys I really don't see a potential upgrade at QB in this draft over what we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) Did you guys even read the article? LOL at all of you making statements before doing that. And to be fair to Allen, while the advanced stats don’t look great, no one can say for sure whether he’ll pan out or be a bust. Stats may not be for losers, but no one would argue that numbers alone make an NFL quarterback. If Allen can piece together his immense talent, he could be the next Brett Favre. If not, he’ll be the next Jake Locker. But in order to draft him no. 1 overall, the Browns would have to ignore every statistical analysis imaginable. As far as analytics go, it’d be the end of the Process in Cleveland. Yes, we all know it's a crap shoot and no one knows for sure. Duh. But all these studies are trying to do one thing: make a coin flip into something less than a coin flip...giving those who do study maybe a 60-40 chance or even better of making the right decision. And guess what? That's the !@#$ing point. But all we get here is all of the above posts calling me out if Allen is actually good, or saying "nobody knows." And if the Bills actually do pick Allen, I'm going to cheer for him and hope he's Brett Favre and not Jake Locker. But I'm not going to bet on it. Edited April 13, 2018 by Domdab99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 42 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said: Yes, that is true. However, you don't know that he can't throw the ball accurately, nor that he has poor decision-making. He was a college QB for two years. In his first year, he took over for a team that went 2-10 the year before, took them to the MWC Championship game and a pretty big bowl game, going 8-5. He was named the 2nd team MWC QB and the MWC player of the year going into this last season. His second year, he lost every skill position player he had- four of whom played in the NFL. Of course his numbers weren't going to be as good. I can't wait for this to be over. When Josh Allen is good, do you guys have to face any sort of music? This is so tiring. Biff from Tonawanda knows more than NFL scouts and executives, I get it. This isn't tiring at all. I get it, though. Life is hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said: J**** C***** enough already. With what? 2 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said: Yes, that is true. However, you don't know that he can't throw the ball accurately, nor that he has poor decision-making. He was a college QB for two years. In his first year, he took over for a team that went 2-10 the year before, took them to the MWC Championship game and a pretty big bowl game, going 8-5. He was named the 2nd team MWC QB and the MWC player of the year going into this last season. His second year, he lost every skill position player he had- four of whom played in the NFL. Of course his numbers weren't going to be as good. I can't wait for this to be over. When Josh Allen is good, do you guys have to face any sort of music? This is so tiring. Biff from Tonawanda knows more than NFL scouts and executives, I get it. You need to probably wait at least a year and a half until Allen even sees meaningful regular season action, maybe longer. Don't waste your energy on being so frustrated so early... you have a loooooong time to deal with passing talk about how bad he's likely going to be as a pro until you have any regular season NFL play to use to debunk that belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I hope this kid turns out to be amazing. Just to prove to everyone they have no clue what they are talking about. I think he has potential to do so and I’m rooting for him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) The article discusses the QBASE model put together by Football Outsiders each year. It uses stats in college to project a QB's success in the NFL. They have run the model back to 1996, which would include both years Tom Brady started at Michigan. Of note: he was not in the their Top 10 best scores, which suggests their "scientific model" is not exactly scientific. It's also funny to see the Top 10 all time scores include Byron Leftwich, Carson Palmer, and Donovan McNabb. It does also include, however, the likes of Rodgers, Big Ben, Rivers, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, and Marcus Mariota. Don't get me wrong: I think Allen will be horrible and don't want the Bills to draft him, but the analytics people like to think they are engaging in science but they are not. Edited April 13, 2018 by Fadingpain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, NewEra said: Its not a science. You can’t look at stats to measure someone’s heart, drive and future surrounding cast The writer did an ok compiling opinions and benchmarking scores in various systems... but didn’t show a particularly great grasp of any of it himself. the low scores are a red flag no doubt. But if you can identify an issue or two and address it (say poor coaching missed a minor tweak that would considerably change his accuracy, or 1-2 specific throws that they leaned on were among his worst) that can go a long way in throwing the number out. Next up is that analytics or cutting edge data doesn’t have to be JUST on field stats. Cleveland could have their own data set that includes anything from physical attributes (hand size, height) to measurables in drills (velocity, various measures of touch on his throws) to GPA and include some of those advanced stats still. Last - that he scores low could be a huge issue with him.... or the tests. Based on the somewhat limited scope and sample size and ever changing nature of the game... these may have some biases built in. Creating something that explains the past few classes pretty well may build in a measure that accounts for a coincidence. It would look better on paper but maybe not be the best future prediction. Long story short: a handful of stats guys came up with and he scored low along with some busts gives a Little worry to me as a fan... but if any of these were fool proof you could also simply fire the scouting department. Edited April 13, 2018 by NoSaint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elltrain22 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Stats in Allen's case are a misnomer for a variety of reasons. He played in a pro-style offense. They never, ever throw quick screens or hardly ever threw the ball to the RB. They usually tried chunk plays of 8-20 yards b/c thats the talent (lack there of ) they had. That being said, if he played in an Oklahoma or any Big 12 offense, that throws alot of easy targets, his completion percentage would be above 60, and we'd never be having this discussion of inaccuracy. He's young and developing. Meaning he's no where near a finished product, and with his talent and work ethic, he could be really, really good He is very athletic, and can be a real good red zone threat with his feet His character, durability, and many other intangibles make him very appealing Add this all up, he's a real intriguing prospect. I'd rather have Mayfield or Rosen, but I'd be very happy with Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Yeah, he is terrible. With his spider chart he couldn't possibly play in the NFL. Please be there at 12! Keep talking him down, pray the national media jumps on that bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I don't like Allen and don't think he will be good. If we draft him, I will feel like I got gut punched......but I'll eventually learn to like the pick. It'll just take time but it'll come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I don't like Allen and don't think he will be good. If we draft him, I will feel like I got gut punched......but I'll eventually learn to like the pick. It'll just take time but it'll come around. That’s where I am. I want him the least of the big 4, but I’d rather have him than Lamar. If we take him, I’ll feel sick for a bit, then I’ll become the biggest Josh Allen fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, NewEra said: That’s where I am. I want him the least of the big 4, but I’d rather have him than Lamar. If we take him, I’ll feel sick for a bit, then I’ll become the biggest Josh Allen fan. That was my feeling when we drafted Manuel....I was "ugghhhh". But then I warmed up to him because of my bias being a Bills fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: That was my feeling when we drafted Manuel....I was "ugghhhh". But then I warmed up to him because of my bias being a Bills fan. I'm quite the opposite. If I dislike them as a prospect and they end up on my team, they have to work harder to win me over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, Blokestradamus said: I'm quite the opposite. If I dislike them as a prospect and they end up on my team, they have to work harder to win me over. So it's hard to win Blokes heart over.....Blokes is the George Clooney of TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafioso Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) Lol this guy Domdab (the OP) is such a hater ??. Also has the worst posts every time Edited April 13, 2018 by BillsMafioso 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: So it's hard to win Blokes heart over.....Blokes is the George Clooney of TBD. Just with less money and more acting prowess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: For me their are only 3 QB's Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen. If we don't get one of those guys I really don't see a potential upgrade at QB in this draft over what we currently have. This is where I am at: Make a move for Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen and give up the picks required. If you miss there and Allen there at 12, I am more willing to take a risk since you have retained all the other draft picks. Do not move up for Allen but hope between Allen/McCarron that one of the two hits. It is a Lottery play but you are doubling down. If Allen is gone at 12, you hope Rudolph/Jackson are available. Again, playing the lottery and hoping you hit. QB can not be ignored nor can you move up at any cost to get a lower ranked player. Need to balance the risk/reward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: Just with less money and more acting prowess. I do like George Clooney but he plays George Clooney in every movie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, elltrain22 said: Stats in Allen's case are a misnomer for a variety of reasons. He played in a pro-style offense. They never, ever throw quick screens or hardly ever threw the ball to the RB. They usually tried chunk plays of 8-20 yards b/c thats the talent (lack there of ) they had. That being said, if he played in an Oklahoma or any Big 12 offense, that throws alot of easy targets, his completion percentage would be above 60, and we'd never be having this discussion of inaccuracy. He's young and developing. Meaning he's no where near a finished product, and with his talent and work ethic, he could be really, really good He is very athletic, and can be a real good red zone threat with his feet His character, durability, and many other intangibles make him very appealing Add this all up, he's a real intriguing prospect. I'd rather have Mayfield or Rosen, but I'd be very happy with Allen. He’s definitely intriguing. My reasons for wanting to go a different direction is I don’t think this is a good situation for him to develop. From unproven offensive and qB coaching to current lack of weapons and unproven OL. And he’s the one who needs the most development imo and is given excuses based on the team around him. That said, like i indicated when Watson’s accuracy was under heavy scrutiny this time last year, i think Allen does have the ability for pinpoint precision ball placement. It is the consistency of that placement that is in question. Also, I don’t doubt the Bills love him. He’s a high character, hard working, intelligent, physical freak. I do think they are self -aware of the situation the kid will be walking into. He won’t even have a starting QB to learn behind. The best place for him is somewhere like NYG, LAC, Steelers, Pats. The Bills know they need a guy who is going to be ok dropped into a starting role. And i think they wanted that, too, the way they traded their starting QB and slow played the FA QBs almost like it didn’t matter. They need to define who that QB is who can step right in if he earns the job. I would guess that’s Rosen or Mayfield. But we will see. Edited April 13, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He’s definitely intriguing. My reasons for wanting to go a different direction is I don’t think this is a good situation for him to develop. From unproven offensive and qB coaching to current lack of weapons and unproven OL. And he’s the one who needs the most development imo and is given excuses based on the team around him. That said, like i indicated when Watson’s accuracy was under heavy scrutiny this time last year, i think Allen does have the ability for pinpoint precision ball placement. It is the consistency of that placement that is in question. Also, I don’t doubt the Bills love him. He’s a high character, hard working, intelligent, physical freak. I do think they are self -aware of the situation the kid will be walking into. He won’t even have a starting QB to learn behind. The best place for him is somewhere like NYG, LAC, Steelers, Pats. The Bills know they need a guy who is going to be ok dropped into a starting role. And i think they wanted that, too, the way they traded their starting QB and slow played the FA QBs almost like it didn’t matter. They need to define who that QB is who can step right in if he earns the job. I would guess that’s Rosen or Mayfield. But we will see. If we go Allen....better hope McCarron is at least decent/adequate for one, maybe two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, Derby Dan said: crazy post. Josh Allen has been number one on their board for awhile. Has the arm strength to play in the wind at the Ralph (I don't like new era) until the downtown stadium is built. Has the athletic ability and mobility to make plays. Rosen is a china doll, Mayfield too short and has horrible foot work, and darnold will be gone. Please don't say Jackson, we just traded his twin to the browns. The only other qb they may go after is rudolph Well I hope you're dead wrong on...everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 29 minutes ago, Derby Dan said: crazy post. Josh Allen has been number one on their board for awhile. Has the arm strength to play in the wind at the Ralph (I don't like new era) until the downtown stadium is built. Has the athletic ability and mobility to make plays. Rosen is a china doll, Mayfield too short and has horrible foot work, and darnold will be gone. Please don't say Jackson, we just traded his twin to the browns. The only other qb they may go after is rudolph How can one post be wrong on so many levels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Hopefully he will be the prospect that makes people knock advanced analytics down a peg. In sports, analytics should be supplementary, not the primary method of analysis. 7 minutes ago, Dalton said: How can one post be wrong on so many levels? What was one thing he said that was wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 12 hours ago, Domdab99 said: Riley Macatee at The ringer has written an interesting article pulling various data points together to show that Josh Allen will likely be a bust. Here is the article. Allen is the embodiment of an old-fashioned, “stats are for losers” approach to evaluating prospects. While draftniks like Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper Jr. rave about Allen’s prototypical size, arm strength, and raw potential, Allen’s production in college gives no indication that he will be a franchise quarterback in the pros. As far as statistical models go, there isn’t a single one that projects Allen as even a first-round pick, much less the top overall player in the draft. And it’s not just his much-maligned completion percentage—let’s take a look under the hood. One interesting chart he uses: Comparing 2018 QB Prospects Player QBASE DYAR Projection Rosen-Olbrecht PFF "NFL Throws" Bill Connelly Success Rate IQR Final-Year QBR Passing S&P+ Baker Mayfield 1st 3rd 2nd 1st 1st 1st 1st Sam Darnold 4th 1st 1st 2nd 6th 4th 2nd Josh Rosen 3rd 2nd 4th 6th 5th 5th 5th Mason Rudolph 5th 6th 3rd 3rd 2nd 3rd 4th Lamar Jackson 2nd 5th 6th 5th 4th 2nd 3rd Luke Falk 6th 7th N/A 4th 3rd 6th 6th Josh Allen 7th 4th 5th 7th 7th 7th 7th I really don't want the Bills drafting Josh Allen. He's most likely going to be a huge bust. Let's hope the Browns actually do draft him. Well, sheesh, after reading all those different QB comparisons I sure know which one we should draft - sort of epitomizes the saying "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one" Other things being equal, the problem actual scouts and GMs have with the above is the saying "you can't coach size". I think it's probably true if Mayfield were 4" taller he'd be the consensus #1 pick. IMHO, Allen would be a perfect pick for someone like the Giants, were they to wish to draft a QB - they can let him sit and learn behind Manning, they're in no rush. Or Denver for that matter with Keenum on board, or the Cards with Bradford IF he is healthy. Whether that's consistent with a use of a top-1st round pick or not, I need to leave to the draft pundits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 58 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He’s definitely intriguing. My reasons for wanting to go a different direction is I don’t think this is a good situation for him to develop. From unproven offensive and qB coaching to current lack of weapons and unproven OL. And he’s the one who needs the most development imo and is given excuses based on the team around him. That said, like i indicated when Watson’s accuracy was under heavy scrutiny this time last year, i think Allen does have the ability for pinpoint precision ball placement. It is the consistency of that placement that is in question. Also, I don’t doubt the Bills love him. He’s a high character, hard working, intelligent, physical freak. I do think they are self -aware of the situation the kid will be walking into. He won’t even have a starting QB to learn behind. The best place for him is somewhere like NYG, LAC, Steelers, Pats. The Bills know they need a guy who is going to be ok dropped into a starting role. And i think they wanted that, too, the way they traded their starting QB and slow played the FA QBs almost like it didn’t matter. They need to define who that QB is who can step right in if he earns the job. I would guess that’s Rosen or Mayfield. But we will see. Reminds me of the Rams and Goff. Had f*ckall there at first. Went out and got him weapons for year two. 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, sheesh, after reading all those different QB comparisons I sure know which one we should draft - sort of epitomizes the saying "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one" Other things being equal, the problem actual scouts and GMs have with the above is the saying "you can't coach size". I think it's probably true if Mayfield were 4" taller he'd be the consensus #1 pick. IMHO, Allen would be a perfect pick for someone like the Giants, were they to wish to draft a QB - they can let him sit and learn behind Manning, they're in no rush. Or Denver for that matter with Keenum on board, or the Cards with Bradford IF he is healthy. Whether that's consistent with a use of a top-1st round pick or not, I need to leave to the draft pundits. Maybe they can just have Mayfield play in high heels. I'm sure there are a few pairs left lying around that Rex forgot in storage when he was shoved out the door. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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