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With the 12th Pick Bills select


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2 hours ago, PIZ said:

Last year the Bears moved from 3rd pick to the 2nd pick to take Mitchell Trubisky.

 

Bears received:  No. 2 overall pick.

 

49ers received:. No. 3 overall pick.  No. 67 (third round).  No. 111(fourth round).  Bears 3rd round pick in 2018. 

 

That was to move up 1 spot and we're going to move up 9 spots?!?!?!

 

 

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51 minutes ago, MtlBillsFan said:

Mayfield is the only elite QB imho opinion. Precise, off the chart decision making and mobile. Arm is so so but not bad.

 

Decision making, you say?

 

 

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51 minutes ago, pimp on da' net said:

That's your conclusion?

Really disturbing how you came to this...

Your disturbed that I implied your half sentence stereo types were uninformed and lazy?

Man, I'd hate to see you with a real problem!

 

Edited by gobills1212
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1 hour ago, gobills1212 said:

Your disturbed that I implied your half sentence stereo types were uninformed and lazy?

Man, I'd hate to see you with a real problem!

 

The comment was neither meant to recap in detail information that has been discuss on this site ad nauseum, but I will indulge. Neither fact about each QB prospect listed was a stereotype. These are based upon reports and data from league insiders...

 

J. Rosen- has a history of being concussed. Having this history leads to the instability of mortgaging your franchises draft currency on someone who is much more susceptible in the future. 

S. Darnold- INT: TD ratio is a concern. He has gotten away with throwing across his body & not setting his feet properly (at the college level)...can he improve on these shortcoming? maybe but far from a sure thing.

J. Allen- see S. Darnold and add accuracy concerns (<60% career)

B. Mayfield- By all accounts, he has the intangibles needed to succeed but height is a concern due to the fact many borderline 6 foot QB drafted in the 1st round have had the success in the current league.

L. Jackson- its been suggested by a HOF GM and evaluator of talent,  that he should test at another position at the combine is quite telling. I am not saying I agree with Polian but Jackson has his supporter & distractors. 

 

What's lazy is a vail comment  without supporting your own counter statement. 

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3 hours ago, pimp on da' net said:

The comment was neither meant to recap in detail information that has been discuss on this site ad nauseum, but I will indulge. Neither fact about each QB prospect listed was a stereotype. These are based upon reports and data from league insiders...

 

J. Rosen- has a history of being concussed. Having this history leads to the instability of mortgaging your franchises draft currency on someone who is much more susceptible in the future. 

S. Darnold- INT: TD ratio is a concern. He has gotten away with throwing across his body & not setting his feet properly (at the college level)...can he improve on these shortcoming? maybe but far from a sure thing.

J. Allen- see S. Darnold and add accuracy concerns (<60% career)

B. Mayfield- By all accounts, he has the intangibles needed to succeed but height is a concern due to the fact many borderline 6 foot QB drafted in the 1st round have had the success in the current league.

L. Jackson- its been suggested by a HOF GM and evaluator of talent,  that he should test at another position at the combine is quite telling. I am not saying I agree with Polian but Jackson has his supporter & distractors. 

 

What's lazy is a vail comment  without supporting your own counter statement. 

Oh... my.... 

Thank you for explaining you're afore mentioned sterotypes... but the truth of the matter is I was imploring you to dig a bit deeper. I've read them, I understand them, and in various topics up and down the board each has been broken down and discussed in great detail. Shame on me for being a smartass I suppose as I did ask exactly for your provided break down - but I guess my point was this recap was like level 1 'lets discuss the qb class at the bar' type stuff. That's on me for not being clear I suppose...

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Moving to #12 cannot be the goal.  It would make no sense.

 

It's clear the Bills are targeting a Quarterback first and foremost.  They have met with, or are planning to meet with, every decent QB prospect in the draft.  They already traded their starting QB and have shown only marginal interest in the Free Agent options available.  They have been stockpiling extra picks for the last 12 months.  In Carolina, Brandon Beane was also part of the process that took a very raw QB prospect #1 overall (Cam Newton), rather than numerous "elite" prospects at other positions like Von Miller, Marcel Dareus, AJ Green and Patrick Peterson.

 

Sitting at #12 still puts us behind Cleveland (twice), Denver and the New York Jets, who are definitely in the QB market.  It puts us behind the New York Giants and Miami, who are possibly in the QB market.  It puts us in serious danger that Arizona can trade ahead of us.  No way that we made all of these moves, then sit on our hands and watch 3-5 QBs come off the board before we pick.  My guess is that we will own a Top 3 draft selection well before March is over.

 

 

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12 hours ago, USABuffaloFan said:

I am not of the feeling Bills need to trade up any farther. At 12 they can get several really good players. Drafts never go as expected and Free Agency has allot to offer in QB's. Bills will definetly get a QB in Free Agency who will play next year and maybe one more year. I think Bills will sit at 12 and expect a QB falls to them and my bet is they are counting on Allen and will also take Jackson. They want worldly athletic talent and a project with huge upside. Both these guys fit that and won't have to start. If this falls though they will get a DT or DE whoever grades out better.

 

 

You could be right, but I doubt it.

 

Sure looks like they want to trade up.

 

Otherwise, who can they be very confident they can get at #12 that they felt they couldn't get at #21? Can't be sure at all of Allen. Plenty are predicting him as a top five guy. Jackson? He's likely to be available at #21. Doesn't make sense.

Edited by Thurman#1
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2 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

You are wrong. It is GREAT to move up and carelessly give away draft picks.

 

Signed,

Doug Whaley

 

You think that's what he's doing here? Going after the top QB in the draft, FINALLY, and they're really being "careless"? That's your take? You looked at this thread, read the posts, and decided you are in agreement with OP? Ok... :rolleyes:

 

Because Whaley moved up for a WR, no team should ever move up again, especially for a QB. Ok.

 

Rob Johnson sucked for the Bills, so we should never take a QB from California either. According to other equivalent threads.

 

With fans like this, who needs Russ Brandon ruining the team? Let us run it, and we'll never draft a QB again! It's worked so well the past 50 years!

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18 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You think that's what he's doing here? Going after the top QB in the draft, FINALLY, and they're really being "careless"? That's your take? You looked at this thread, read the posts, and decided you are in agreement with OP? Ok... :rolleyes:

 

Because Whaley moved up for a WR, no team should ever move up again, especially for a QB. Ok.

 

Rob Johnson sucked for the Bills, so we should never take a QB from California either. According to other equivalent threads.

 

With fans like this, who needs Russ Brandon ruining the team? Let us run it, and we'll never draft a QB again! It's worked so well the past 50 years!

Doc, that is SO not where I was going, I might delete the post!!! I was being 100% sarcastic. Beane and McDermott accumulated all of these picks and I laud praise upon them for doing so. It's what I always wanted for the team. Whaley otoh was like a very bad nightmare.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Edited by Bill from NYC
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3 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Doc, that is SO not where I was going, I might delete the post!!! I was being 100% sarcastic. Beane and McDermott accumulated all of these picks and I laud praise upon them for doing so. It's what I always wanted for the team. Whaley otoh was like a very bad nightmare.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

Hahaha, I KNEW you were better than that. Now it makes sense. Go Bills! :thumbsup:

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12 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

You don’t think they have already worked most of this out?

 

Giants want Barkley- if he goes 1 we move to 2 and if Barkley is available at 2 we are going to 3.

 

I think in either case it is for Rosen.  I think they know that Cleveland is either Barkley or Darnold at 1.

Sure glad you have spoken too Giants and Indy for the Bills and have this all worked out. Beane also thanks you for picking Rosen!

12 hours ago, gobills1212 said:

Hhmmmm...

It's relavence can be debated, but you understand there's a chart and hes not just making this stuff up right?

 Replace GM with you and kiper with board and you may soon know the feeling.

Also, for an opinion that needs an open mind to be understood or taken seriously you seem to be shooting down others valid arguments and dishing insults like calling people fans of division rivals. Not the best look

Interesting you say it is a opinion for someone to say Bills will move to 2 and pick Rosen. That this will only cost Bills 12, 22, 65. If it is a opinion then you say I think Bills should. People on this board are thinking Bills did all this to move to the front of the draft and will definitely get 2 or 3rd pick and get Darnold or Rosen. This is far from a truth and very damaging to the Bills future if done because this is FOR the FANS. Beane will do what is best for the Bills, he can correct QB situation this week in Free Agency for 1-2 years. What QB we land depends on other teams more than "what the Bills" want. This Bills Wall is a frenzy of people thinking something is "owed to the Bills". I am 52 years old, been a fan at least 42 years, nothing magically comes to the Bills, takes allot of sweat and sometimes it just isn't in the cards. I will be happy if they get a QB at 12 or a great DT, DE, etc... I as a Bills fan will be happy Beane got us to a better spot to get a better player than what was available at 21, Glenn was not the Bills future under Beane. So if I seemed to be squashing your right, maybe your squashing Mine! 

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People Misconstrue why we have been hoarding picks since Beane has been here it is for this very reason we are all in on a QB this draft and it will determine the future of this Organization. Having made the playoffs he will have a longer leash. I feel we have wanted Rosen all around and I am completely on board with it. About time we have our guy!

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53 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You think that's what he's doing here? Going after the top QB in the draft, FINALLY, and they're really being "careless"? That's your take? You looked at this thread, read the posts, and decided you are in agreement with OP? Ok... :rolleyes:

 

Because Whaley moved up for a WR, no team should ever move up again, especially for a QB. Ok.

 

Rob Johnson sucked for the Bills, so we should never take a QB from California either. According to other equivalent threads.

 

With fans like this, who needs Russ Brandon ruining the team? Let us run it, and we'll never draft a QB again! It's worked so well the past 50 years!

 

We shouldn't draft anybody, bc they are all risks.

Not sign FA either, just pay the same roster until they retire one by one and we can't field a team.

Duh.

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13 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Josh Allen played in a pro-style offense and yet he needs time to develop no question. Most draft pundits have been saying that Rosen is ready to start from day one.

 

2. Which QB is most ready to start right away in the NFL?

Kiper: It's Rosen, who has played under former NFL offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch and has elite physical tools.

Who the HELL is Mel Kiper??

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2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You could be right, but I doubt it.

 

Sure looks like they want to trade up.

 

Otherwise, who can they be very confident they can get at #12 that they felt they couldn't get at #21? Can't be sure at all of Allen. Plenty are predicting him as a top five guy. Jackson? He's likely to be available at #21. Doesn't make sense.

That is a SMOKESCREEN. According to Luke Easterling and Chris Simms, Lamar Jackson is the #1 QB in the draft. Beane is gonna shock the football world and do what he has to do and get Lamar Jackson. Lamar has the highest ceiling of ALL the QBs in this draft.

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11 hours ago, LangleyBillsFan said:

Were not picking anyone at 12....still climbing the board....this trade was an interim step to make it easier to get into the top 5!

The only way Bills get in the top 4 is one Cleveland picks RB. Now Giants don't need pick, now you have 5-6 teams, even Cleveland wanting their QB. Cleveland has the most to offer a 4th pick. So they give Giants 4th pick and 2nd pick, which they have 5 of them, and a 3rd. What makes this scenario any less possible. If your saying this because Bills have a need for QB, so does Cleveland. If your saying it because Bills moved to 12 and have 8 picks, Cleveland has more. We are all giving opinions but don't paint yourself in a corner to be upset. Things rarely work out as planned and nothing is guaranteed. I keep being told that I am ruining peoples plans by countering what your writing. Guess those people don't realize who's thread this is. I laid the thread out so Bills fans could think of what may happen on trade day and what happens if we have to stay at 12. Everyone else piled on and made this it is not a 12th pick, well damn it right now it is a 12th pick and you had better be ready to DEAL WITH THAT!

11 hours ago, dulles said:

If you properly discount a pick by 1 round per year of deferral, they only gave up 2275 points to move up to a slot worth 2600 on the Walter Football chart.  That is placing the picks at the 8th spot in the round (based on where Philly was drafting in 2016).  I would gladly make that trade!  
 

To put it in perspective, our two First rounders (12,22), plus the third from CLE (65), and a the fourth (121) gets you to 2297 on the chart.  I'm not saying that gets us to #2, but we won't have to go "Mike Ditka" to get the guy we want either.  Throw in a 2nd and I think we'd have a good long conversation with the Giants.  If the Browns go QB at 1 and our guy is still there, I think we could wait to deal with IND at 3, because the Giants will run to the podium to select Barkley.  

People on Indy's boards want the Indy to pick a player that helps Indy now that Luck is back. They don't want to trade down. Their time is now. Not sure Indy's pick is available unless you give up both 1st's and both 2nd's or next years 1st. They will have 5-6 call from teams offering their picks higher than Bills. Even Cleveland can move up again easier. We have the 12th pick, right now that is were Bills are selecting.

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24 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Sure glad you have spoken too Giants and Indy for the Bills and have this all worked out. Beane also thanks you for picking Rosen!

Interesting you say it is a opinion for someone to say Bills will move to 2 and pick Rosen. That this will only cost Bills 12, 22, 65. If it is a opinion then you say I think Bills should. People on this board are thinking Bills did all this to move to the front of the draft and will definitely get 2 or 3rd pick and get Darnold or Rosen. This is far from a truth and very damaging to the Bills future if done because this is FOR the FANS. Beane will do what is best for the Bills, he can correct QB situation this week in Free Agency for 1-2 years. What QB we land depends on other teams more than "what the Bills" want. This Bills Wall is a frenzy of people thinking something is "owed to the Bills". I am 52 years old, been a fan at least 42 years, nothing magically comes to the Bills, takes allot of sweat and sometimes it just isn't in the cards. I will be happy if they get a QB at 12 or a great DT, DE, etc... I as a Bills fan will be happy Beane got us to a better spot to get a better player than what was available at 21, Glenn was not the Bills future under Beane. So if I seemed to be squashing your right, maybe your squashing Mine! 

What's this about squash now?! 

Oddly, I think I actually share the same sentiment about McBeane doing what they do and have explained it in other threads. 

That said, bluntly, if you think the goal was to get to 12 and chill you are just flat nuts. That's not even an insult...it just is what it is. 12 is no one's goal. It's just not. It can't be. Maybe they won't be able to move up again for whatever reason... but people including myself doubt that because EVERYTHING they've done seems to be part of a plan. They've obviously made it known and their actions show this as well. After the TT trade it was just a matter of time until the other shoe dropped. We didn't know there was a 2 part shoe - but that seems to be the case. You seem to be one of the only people who thinks/feels this way. If the impossible happens and you are right, at least u get to be king!!!

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8 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Unlikley, but if they pick at 12 and its not a Qb they could nab the top lb.

Or DT

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Just an opinion but I think that Rosen sinks in the draft and might make it to the area of 10 or 12.

And that is why I think Beane moved up in the draft to take advantage of a player that slips but won't get to 21. If it doesn't happen they they get a shot at a top DT or CB and locks defense down. That would leave Evans for 22. So maybe we get a QB at 12 or our defense gets a huge injection of studs. Either way Bills are better off than selling off 22.

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2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You could be right, but I doubt it.

 

Sure looks like they want to trade up.

 

Otherwise, who can they be very confident they can get at #12 that they felt they couldn't get at #21? Can't be sure at all of Allen. Plenty are predicting him as a top five guy. Jackson? He's likely to be available at #21. Doesn't make sense.

Why does everyone think Beane is so calculating he makes all these great trades for picks, then gives half away to grab a QB who is not a consensus #1 and probably not starting this year for us. Do you think he wants to lose this year? We have 19 free agents with 8 picks now. We have only about 20mil left after pick maybe 25mil. This means under the scenario we make the trade with a 2nd and 5th and 6th pick. That means all other players are under $1 mil players, scrubs basically. Good luck winning. Bills have almost $40 mil on dead money. Maybe we moved to 12 to get best player available to win now still and it COULD be a QB of the future but more likely a DT, LB or WR or CB.

24 minutes ago, the skycap said:

That is a SMOKESCREEN. According to Luke Easterling and Chris Simms, Lamar Jackson is the #1 QB in the draft. Beane is gonna shock the football world and do what he has to do and get Lamar Jackson. Lamar has the highest ceiling of ALL the QBs in this draft.

This sounds more the truth though Jets may try to pick him 1st.

18 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

What's this about squash now?! 

Oddly, I think I actually share the same sentiment about McBeane doing what they do and have explained it in other threads. 

That said, bluntly, if you think the goal was to get to 12 and chill you are just flat nuts. That's not even an insult...it just is what it is. 12 is no one's goal. It's just not. It can't be. Maybe they won't be able to move up again for whatever reason... but people including myself doubt that because EVERYTHING they've done seems to be part of a plan. They've obviously made it known and their actions show this as well. After the TT trade it was just a matter of time until the other shoe dropped. We didn't know there was a 2 part shoe - but that seems to be the case. You seem to be one of the only people who thinks/feels this way. If the impossible happens and you are right, at least u get to be king!!!

The reality is we are at 12, Beane wouldn't have moved here to trade back down. He could move up but that would cost a lot and he may not have a choice but to stay. Those are the facts!!!!!!

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33 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Why does everyone think Beane is so calculating he makes all these great trades for picks, then gives half away to grab a QB who is not a consensus #1 and probably not starting this year for us. Do you think he wants to lose this year? We have 19 free agents with 8 picks now. We have only about 20mil left after pick maybe 25mil. This means under the scenario we make the trade with a 2nd and 5th and 6th pick. That means all other players are under $1 mil players, scrubs basically. Good luck winning. Bills have almost $40 mil on dead money. Maybe we moved to 12 to get best player available to win now still and it COULD be a QB of the future but more likely a DT, LB or WR or CB.

This sounds more the truth though Jets may try to pick him 1st.

The reality is we are at 12, Beane wouldn't have moved here to trade back down. He could move up but that would cost a lot and he may not have a choice but to stay. Those are the facts!!!!!!

Trade back down?!?! Dude!!!!!!!!!

I don't even know what to say to you any more. 

I've seen and read a lot of crazy/dumb/perplexing stuff on here and I've always at least been able to respond. Just from a common sense standpoint - with all 100000 people telling you this is whack, at some point don't u start to think maybe ur going about it the wrong way??

Are you just trolling? Have we all just been massively trolled? 

Trade up, stay put, trade down.... there is ZERO reason to trade to 12 and call it a day. The sooner you accept this the happier you will be

Edited by gobills1212
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Bills have added QB McCarron, DE, DT, CB/safety, OLB/DE. McCarron is a starter at least this year but probably 2 years and maybe more if he does well. More than ever now I believe Bills are loading up to go for it this year. They have two good young QB's. If someone falls to them at pick 12 they may pull the trigger but they now are in the driver seat to pick best players available. They do still need a speed WR and middle linebacker now that Bradham resigned with Philly. I think if Evans is there they may take him. I do believe if Baker or Allen are there they will grab them at 12 and hope Evans gets to 22 or move up again and grab him. Bills are in a perfect position to keep all their picks. 

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With AJ on board...and now some teams ahead of us maybe not taking a QB anymore, I think its plausible we could stay put at 12 and let draft fall to us.

 

If so...I think its either Vita or Roquan, depending whose on the board.  I think Roquan would be the guy if both are.

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On 3/13/2018 at 9:25 AM, the skycap said:

That is a SMOKESCREEN. According to Luke Easterling and Chris Simms, Lamar Jackson is the #1 QB in the draft. Beane is gonna shock the football world and do what he has to do and get Lamar Jackson. Lamar has the highest ceiling of ALL the QBs in this draft.

We've also identified the highest poster.  LOL.

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1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

It's possible they get their MLB at 12 and Jackson at 22.

Makes more sense to me this way then giving away 4 draft picks. 

 

http://walterfootball.com/draft2018trade02.php

 

Bills acquire: No. 2 overall (2,600 points) = 2,600 points 
Giants acquire: Nos. 12 (1,200 points), 22 (780 points), 56 (340 points), 65 (265) = 2,585 points 

 

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Battle of the 5th round QB's, love it. Imagine Buffalo gets a starter and backup from 5th round picks and go to the playoffs and win Superbowl. Sorry getting carried away but I could see the story lines already from this. Gonna be interesting to see what the Bills do with the 12th pick. I still think they will get a WR in free agency. They liked Maclin last year and he is available.

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16 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

It's possible they get their MLB at 12 and Jackson at 22.

 

It is quite possible.  No one really knows accept the Bills.  If they stay at 12 they could have their pick from one of the below.  If they pick one, I could say them trade up a little from 22 to get a QB like Lamar Jackson or possibly someone drops.....I really could see Josh Allen drop,

 

Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Virginia Tech

Derwin James, S, Florida State

Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia

Minkah Fitzpatrick, DB, Alabama

Harold Landry, EDGE, Boston College

Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State

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