Foreigner Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Great article today in the Daily News (New York) about all NFL QBs and the salary cap. As we all know, New England is better than anyone in NFL, not withstanding winning or losing today. They draft better than anyone, they coach better than anyone, and the only head coach in the league to have full roster control is Bill Belichick, although I think McDermott comes close as he brought Beane from Carolina. Anyway, the Pats lead the league in having undrafted free agents with 18, 34% of the roster. 7new key players on D this past year, and on O, only 1 starter who was a Pats 1st round pick. The point of the lengthy article is how QBs played this season in comparison to the salery cap hit their team took for them.A lot of you know that Tom Brady, the 3rd best rated QB in the league had his 2017 QB salary % of the cap 19th of 43, meaning the Pats had a lot of money left over to sign free agents. The Bills had Taylor the 18th rated QB, and 22nd against the Cap with a little under 5% of his salary against the cap. The worst situation is Joe Flacco who dealt the Ravens a cap hit of 14.5% of their cap space. Whether it means anything to you, QB play rated under Taylor this past year include Prescott, Carr, Dalton, Bortles, Palmer, Brissett, Foles, Mariota, Cutler, Newton, Manning, and Flacco. What does this all mean, maybe nothing, but maybe Taylor is not costing a horrible sum against the cap, and just because the Bills can draft in quantity in the draft, doesn't mean they can draft their way into the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 It doesnt matter if he costs $1 if he can't complete a pass. He's not good. 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) I agree that they coach better and, most importantly, have the greatest QB ever and he his playing on a comparatively inexpensive contract. I don’t think that they necessarily draft better than other teams. Brady’s play and Belichick’s coaching account for most of their success. i forget who said it, but it was a high profile NFL coach or GM: He (Belichick) can take his and beat your’s and he can take your’s and beat his. Edited February 4, 2018 by OldTimer1960 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, kdiggz said: It doesnt matter if he costs $1 if he can't complete a pass. He's not good. Not to mention next year Tyrod’s cap hit goes up to $18 million... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: I agree that they coach better and, most importantly, have the greatest QB ever and he his playing on a comparatively inexpensive contract. I don’t think that they necessarily draft better than other teams. Brady’s play and Belichick’s coaching account for most of their success. i forget who said it, but it was a high profile NFL coach or GM: He (Belichick) can take his and beat your’s and he can take your’s and beat his. Having one of the best QB/Coach tandems in maybe all of NFL history covers up a multitude of sins. There are teams that draft better...by a lot. But Pats have Brady. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The Pats don’t draft better than everyone. They don’t even really draft that well. BB is not some amazing GM. He IS an amazing coach, and has the greatest QB of all time. That covers a lot of personnel mistakes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 If we used the same amount of thought that gets put into 'polishing a turd' around here... think of all the real world problems we could solve. World peace and hunger issues come to mind... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 32 minutes ago, Foreigner said: Great article today in the Daily News (New York) about all NFL QBs and the salary cap. As we all know, New England is better than anyone in NFL, not withstanding winning or losing today. They draft better than anyone, they coach better than anyone, and the only head coach in the league to have full roster control is Bill Belichick, although I think McDermott comes close as he brought Beane from Carolina. Anyway, the Pats lead the league in having undrafted free agents with 18, 34% of the roster. 7new key players on D this past year, and on O, only 1 starter who was a Pats 1st round pick. The point of the lengthy article is how QBs played this season in comparison to the salery cap hit their team took for them.A lot of you know that Tom Brady, the 3rd best rated QB in the league had his 2017 QB salary % of the cap 19th of 43, meaning the Pats had a lot of money left over to sign free agents. The Bills had Taylor the 18th rated QB, and 22nd against the Cap with a little under 5% of his salary against the cap. The worst situation is Joe Flacco who dealt the Ravens a cap hit of 14.5% of their cap space. Whether it means anything to you, QB play rated under Taylor this past year include Prescott, Carr, Dalton, Bortles, Palmer, Brissett, Foles, Mariota, Cutler, Newton, Manning, and Flacco. What does this all mean, maybe nothing, but maybe Taylor is not costing a horrible sum against the cap, and just because the Bills can draft in quantity in the draft, doesn't mean they can draft their way into the SB. I don't care about percentages, I don't want a QB who has trouble playing the position as an actual QB to be leading the team, we can do better and just because he's not "killing our cap" he is hurting us in more ways imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Does anyone really think that Brady would be still be the greatest if he didn't have a OL to protect him. The way to beat Brady is to pressure him. The Bills played the Pats twice this year, and Brady did basically what he did whenever he plays the Bills. You want to compare their pass catchers with the Bills, really, for instance Gronk against Clay who is so banged up he can hardly practice. I don't care where the Pats get their players from: the draft, free agency, or the BIlls. Year after year they draft near the end ofeach round, and year after year they win the AFC, and mostly go to the SB. They know what they are doing, the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins basically don't. End of story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 55 minutes ago, kdiggz said: It doesnt matter if he costs $1 if he can't complete a pass. He's not good. 50 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Not to mention next year Tyrod’s cap hit goes up to $18 million... Case closed. End thread\ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Success said: The Pats don’t draft better than everyone. They don’t even really draft that well. BB is not some amazing GM. He IS an amazing coach, and has the greatest QB of all time. That covers a lot of personnel mistakes. Agree with this a ton. It does not help that the AFC east has sucked for so very long as for some reason none of the other 3 clubs understand the importance of having a top ten QB. The Bills have actually had some decent teams over the years but lacked the most important piece for 15+ years now. NE is a great team, there really is no debate about it. A ton of NE success comes due to the Jets, Dolphins and Bills. Since Brady took over they won the div. 14 out of 15 years. The QB carousel on the 3 teams during this tenure is a friggin hot mess. Add on: 15 years of Pats Div records: 5-15-14-24-24-26-05-15-14-24-26-04-25-15-15-1 71 - 19 Holy Hell Edited February 4, 2018 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Foreigner said: Great article today in the Daily News (New York) about all NFL QBs and the salary cap. As we all know, New England is better than anyone in NFL, not withstanding winning or losing today. They draft better than anyone Um..No. Take a look at the Pats picks over the years...if you are being honest they draft pretty much the same as everyone else. I read a post on here a few years ago linking to an article that said they actually draft WORSE than the average team. I'm not sure why everyone says/thinks they draft better than everyone else. NE is the team they are becasue they have a good coach, and great QB, and a decent team around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 How do they get the decent team around them all the time? Please explain that and I will listen. Why is it that the Bills had no use for Eric Lee, and he became a big part of the Pats down the stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Foreigner said: How do they get the decent team around them all the time? Please explain that and I will listen. they let go of aging and overpriced players. they scour other teams for developed, bargain priced players. they take risks on players with immense talent that have red flags (this sometimes works, sometimes doesn't...but they are always called genius for it). and a lot of times, free agents flock to NE for the chance to win a ring. but mostly, they have the best qb to ever play the game, arguably the best coach ever, and a reputation as a perennial sb contender. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) What am I reading? What is the "Deal of the Century?" What the hell is going on out there? Edited February 4, 2018 by jmc12290 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 That is page 77-79 of the Daily News today. "Brady makes Pats dynasty economically possible with cap-friendly contracts". The story was titled Deal of the Century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 This just in, "the Patriots are good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Just because Taylor is relatively cheap doesn’t make him a bargain. He’s trash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Foreigner said: Great article today in the Daily News (New York) about all NFL QBs and the salary cap. As we all know, New England is better than anyone in NFL, not withstanding winning or losing today. They draft better than anyone, they coach better than anyone, and the only head coach in the league to have full roster control is Bill Belichick, although I think McDermott comes close as he brought Beane from Carolina. Anyway, the Pats lead the league in having undrafted free agents with 18, 34% of the roster. 7new key players on D this past year, and on O, only 1 starter who was a Pats 1st round pick. The point of the lengthy article is how QBs played this season in comparison to the salery cap hit their team took for them.A lot of you know that Tom Brady, the 3rd best rated QB in the league had his 2017 QB salary % of the cap 19th of 43, meaning the Pats had a lot of money left over to sign free agents. The Bills had Taylor the 18th rated QB, and 22nd against the Cap with a little under 5% of his salary against the cap. The worst situation is Joe Flacco who dealt the Ravens a cap hit of 14.5% of their cap space. Whether it means anything to you, QB play rated under Taylor this past year include Prescott, Carr, Dalton, Bortles, Palmer, Brissett, Foles, Mariota, Cutler, Newton, Manning, and Flacco. What does this all mean, maybe nothing, but maybe Taylor is not costing a horrible sum against the cap, and just because the Bills can draft in quantity in the draft, doesn't mean they can draft their way into the SB. I do think this is a big factor. IMO there are maybe 1/2 dozen QB's that are really worth the money they are paid, Brady being one of them. Look at Seattle, they won on Wilson's rookie contract, once he signed a big deal that ate up to much of the cap, (and others on the roster too) they've struggled. If you can win with a cheap guy, you're way ahead. My hope the beginning of the season was that TT would play well enough to keep around on a cheap contract and would leave enough $$ and draft picks to put a real strong team around him. Unfortunately that hasn't worked out and while his % of cap hit is real good, he just can't play at a starting QB level in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 They did get good players like you described,along with the following draft choices who did okay. J Brissett 2016 J Garoppolo 2014 J White 2014 D Hightower 2012 C Jones 2012 N Solder 2011 S Vareen 2011 R Mallett 2011 D McCourtney 2010 R Gronkowsky 2010 P Chung 2009 D Butler 2009 J Edelman 2009 and if you want to go back to 2006 S. Gostkowsky, so don't tell me they can't draft, and go back to all the teams that passed on TB12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Maiden Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, CSBill said: This just in, "the Patriots are good." I'm going to need a 2nd opinion on this.... I don't think NE drafts better than anyone...I will admit however, that they do OK considering they always drafts in the high 20's low 30's ....that parity thing ain't working...at all..... Edited February 4, 2018 by Iron Maiden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 We all know TT is not great, but he played better than 24 other QBs (19-43) last year who played, many of them starters. He is a starter in the NFL and with better OC and Rs who can catch the ball and run routes he will probably start wherever he goes next year. Of course he is not better than NP as many on the board willl tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Success said: The Pats don’t draft better than everyone. They don’t even really draft that well. BB is not some amazing GM. He IS an amazing coach, and has the greatest QB of all time. That covers a lot of personnel mistakes. Agreed, though they do have good scouting to ID under-the-radar talent as UDFA and scout teams around the league. Another factor is that they have had great continuity in coaching and scheme. They aren't just teaching the bones of their plays from year to year. There's an expectation that if you're going to stay on the Pats roster, you better get into the playbook and get deep in the playbook, on your own, so that the coaches can fine-tune. 35 minutes ago, CSBill said: This just in, "the Patriots*** are good." When you say that.....don't misplace your asterisks. FIFY. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Having said that, TT has had 4 OCs in 3 years, a new system with each one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: I agree that they coach better and, most importantly, have the greatest QB ever and he his playing on a comparatively inexpensive contract. I don’t think that they necessarily draft better than other teams. Brady’s play and Belichick’s coaching account for most of their success. i forget who said it, but it was a high profile NFL coach or GM: He (Belichick) can take his and beat your’s and he can take your’s and beat his. That was Wade's papa, talking about Shula. And the Pats draft extremely well for the fact that they draft late with great regularity. They have a system ... collect comp picks, trade down and collect more picks, trade a 3rd this year and get a 2nd next year, get higher value. They don't convert picks to great players any more than anyone else. Maybe less, as they're drafting so very low. It's harder down there. But they have more chances because of their system and that has brought them a lot of terrific drafted players over the years. Including Brady, a comp pick. 2 hours ago, Foreigner said: Having said that, TT has had 4 OCs in 3 years, a new system with each one. That's really stretching it. They didn't put in a new system when Roman was fired in week three. They basically simplified Roman's system under Lynn. You can hardly call that a new system. Edited February 5, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flomoe Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Pretty decent Chevy Chase movie, started good but fizzled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Foreigner said: Great article today in the Daily News (New York) about all NFL QBs and the salary cap. As we all know, New England is better than anyone in NFL, not withstanding winning or losing today. They draft better than anyone, they coach better than anyone, and the only head coach in the league to have full roster control is Bill Belichick, although I think McDermott comes close as he brought Beane from Carolina. Anyway, the Pats lead the league in having undrafted free agents with 18, 34% of the roster. 7new key players on D this past year, and on O, only 1 starter who was a Pats 1st round pick. The point of the lengthy article is how QBs played this season in comparison to the salery cap hit their team took for them.A lot of you know that Tom Brady, the 3rd best rated QB in the league had his 2017 QB salary % of the cap 19th of 43, meaning the Pats had a lot of money left over to sign free agents. The Bills had Taylor the 18th rated QB, and 22nd against the Cap with a little under 5% of his salary against the cap. The worst situation is Joe Flacco who dealt the Ravens a cap hit of 14.5% of their cap space. Whether it means anything to you, QB play rated under Taylor this past year include Prescott, Carr, Dalton, Bortles, Palmer, Brissett, Foles, Mariota, Cutler, Newton, Manning, and Flacco. What does this all mean, maybe nothing, but maybe Taylor is not costing a horrible sum against the cap, and just because the Bills can draft in quantity in the draft, doesn't mean they can draft their way into the SB. Tom Brady plays with the most team friendly salary in any major sport. He doesn't care how much he makes and takes less money to make his chances of winning Super Bowls higher. He and his wife are worth an estimated 540,000,000.00. Tom Brady as quarterback for the New England Patriots is an absolute fluke of nature. When will people stop trying to compare him and anyone else in football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Foreigner said: They did get good players like you described,along with the following draft choices who did okay. J Brissett 2016 J Garoppolo 2014 J White 2014 D Hightower 2012 C Jones 2012 N Solder 2011 S Vareen 2011 R Mallett 2011 D McCourtney 2010 R Gronkowsky 2010 P Chung 2009 D Butler 2009 J Edelman 2009 and if you want to go back to 2006 S. Gostkowsky, so don't tell me they can't draft, and go back to all the teams that passed on TB12. According to this math they hit on about 20 percent of their draft picks.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hamburg Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Tyrod is not a good QB...hell of a running back really...kinda reminds me of Slash from the Pittsburg Steelers. Slash would turn some heads on certain plays, but in the end he just couldn't get the job done..no matter how much we liked him and rooted for him (myself) the end results was they needed a better QB. Just like Us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 5 hours ago, kdiggz said: It doesnt matter if he costs $1 if he can't complete a pass. He's not good. Yes all of the passes he completed were optical illusions. If you cannot make a point without exaggeration how weak is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) The Patriots do NOT draft better than anyone. They have plenty of busts. They draft right around average. Except with their one lucky pick in the 6th round 28 years ago in Brady. Arguably the Bills draft better than them since they keep signing our players in FA Edited February 5, 2018 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: That was Wade's papa, talking about Shula. And the Pats draft extremely well for the fact that they draft late with great regularity. They have a system ... collect comp picks, trade down and collect more picks, trade a 3rd this year and get a 2nd next year, get higher value. They don't convert picks to great players any more than anyone else. Maybe less, as they're drafting so very low. It's harder down there. But they have more chances because of their system and that has brought them a lot of terrific drafted players over the years. Including Brady, a comp pick. That's really stretching it. They didn't put in a new system when Roman was fired in week three. They basically simplified Roman's system under Lynn. You can hardly call that a new system. For sure, the Pats often trade down for extra picks or trade a current year pick for a future pick one round earlier. The link below shows several years that they had multiple 2nd/3rd round picks. From a glance, I didn't see many brilliant picks in there. I think that you are right that they don't hit on a higher rate of selections, but they have more chances. I still think, though, that Brady and Belichick are the reason that they have won so much rather than their draft system. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 22 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: For sure, the Pats often trade down for extra picks or trade a current year pick for a future pick one round earlier. The link below shows several years that they had multiple 2nd/3rd round picks. From a glance, I didn't see many brilliant picks in there. I think that you are right that they don't hit on a higher rate of selections, but they have more chances. I still think, though, that Brady and Belichick are the reason that they have won so much rather than their draft system. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm Yeah, Brady and Belichick, but it's precisely Belichick who uses that draft system. I hate Belichick but he's smart and he drafts that way for a reason. And again, Brady was a comp pick. Extra picks mean extra chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) On 2/4/2018 at 3:11 PM, Success said: The Pats don’t draft better than everyone. They don’t even really draft that well. BB is not some amazing GM. He IS an amazing coach, and has the greatest QB of all time. That covers a lot of personnel mistakes. This is the reality from perspective too. They’ve had a lot of draft misses, but when you have Brady you win anyway. For example, look at the respective rosters of the Eagles and the Pats. The Eagles have better players at every single position except QB and TE, yet it was a close down to the wire game. That just shows you what having the best QB of all time QB means. On 2/4/2018 at 8:56 PM, matter2003 said: The Patriots do NOT draft better than anyone. They have plenty of busts. They draft right around average. Except with their one lucky pick in the 6th round 28 years ago in Brady. Arguably the Bills draft better than them since they keep signing our players in FA The Bills have been the anti-Patriots: bringing in good players at every position except the one that matters most. Edited February 6, 2018 by vincec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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