Josh Allen a Raw Jim Kelly?

[Lenigmusx]

I find it very likely that Josh Allen QB from Wyoming will be one of our two 1st round selections. He has the most physical ability by far of all the prospects but is also very, very raw. His arm strength and gunslinger mentality along with the chip on his shoulder remind of young JK. Obviously Miami U and national titles helped mold Jim. Josh Allen does not have much experience and Wyoming is small scale but I still think his upside could be great. What vet could mentor him? He and a Tyrod are Apples and Oranges. Bradford might be an OK choice in this case. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Lenigmusx

[SaviorPeterman]

Josh Allen is the biggest Boom/Bust QB prospect in this draft and based on the Bills history with similar players (Losman/Manuel) I would tend to stay far away unless he's available in round 3 or later and the risk is minimized.

 

Regardless there is no question this kid has serious talent and he's drawn a lot of interesting comparisons in the scouting world. In fact I was talking about the this year's QB with a source of mine in the Pac12 the other day and he said Allen has the potential (emphasis on potential) to be the next Big Ben but with a better arm. Same source also said he could be the next Jake Locker too.

 

 

[McBean]

Every big game the guy has played in he’s been horrible.

 

Pass pass pass.

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, McBean said:

Every big game the guy has played in he’s been horrible.

 

Pass pass pass.

Something like 3 touchdowns and 8 picks in his big games, I heard the stat this morning.

[SaviorPeterman]

2 minutes ago, McBean said:

Every big game the guy has played in he’s been horrible.

 

Pass pass pass.

 

This is obviously another concern among the scouting ranks. Which is why I think it's a moot point talking about Allen as a 1st round pick at this point but what scares me is the Bills being desperate and reaching for another mid round prospect in the 1st round like they did with Losman and Manuel.

[VirginiaMike]

No thanks.  I'm not sold on only physical ability in a QB any more.  I really like to look at leadership and what a QB does when it's on the line.  Josh Allen has seemed to fold when it's on the line.  Mayfield from OK is a guy whoo seems to rise when it's on the line, similar to Watson last year.  

[Solomon Grundy]

16 minutes ago, McBean said:

Every big game the guy has played in he’s been horrible.

 

Pass pass pass.

We'll see today @4:00

[Victory Formation]

I'm firmly in the Mason Rudolph camp.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

More like a raw Blake Bortles.

[WMDman]

I like him in the second round or our later first

[Tatonka68]

Junk, I pass.

[billspro]

I'm very interested to watch him play tonight. He reminds me of Big Ben. He hasn't played well against top competition but his team also sucks, a Qb can't do everything by themselves. 

[Jasovon]

I think if recent years have taught us anything it's that nobody has any clue who is going to be a good QB coming out of college. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Commonsense said:

Something like 3 touchdowns and 8 picks in his big games, I heard the stat this morning.

 

Well to be fair, its not just him facing those team in the Big Games...if Wyoming as a team isn't good enough it makes life rough on the QB too.  I haven't seen him enough to say one way or the other, but I am always hesitant to put too much emphasis on a QB's struggles when his small school faces much bigger competition because the overall roster of his small school likely pails to that of the top competition.  Thats not to excuse those struggles, just I try and avoid just looking at a stat box to understand his abilities in those cases.  

 

Josh draft predictions won't be relevant until he comes and shows what he can do in workouts and combine.  He has the potential to really shoot up the draft board if her can really impress this off season, possibly all the way up to the 3rd QB off the board.  

 

Honestly, Rosen and Darnold (assuming both are in the draft) are probably pretty safe bets to be the first 2 QB's taken, possibly the first 2 picks of the draft.  However, who will lock down the 3rd spot is highly congested right now.  Mason, Baker, Lamar, Allen, and possibly Falk or Lock could catapult themselves into the 3rd spot which is wide open right now.  I think it will be Baker honestly that is the 3rd QB taken, but thats as we sit today...lots will happen before now and draft time to shift the rankings behind Rosen and Darnold.  

 

My dark horse is Lamar.  The best thing to happen to him was Watson's early success this year and Russel Wilsons MVP candidate type season.  People could become enamored with hid dual threat ability if he can have a strong off season show casing his arm.  Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he raises his draft status to top a top 10 pick by the time draft gets here.  Now, I am NOT advocating we should target him, just that his resume is ridiculous and if he can show well throwing the ball he could be a guy that shoots up draft boards.  And honestly, there are a lot of people and sites that already have him as the 3rd best QB in this draft...even though I don't personally agree with that as I have him 5th right now behind Rosen, Darnold, Baker, and Allen.  But I also haven't reviewed enough of Allen, Mason, Falk, and Lock to really figure out what order to put behind the top 3.  

Edited December 22, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, Lenigmusx said:

I find it very likely that Josh Allen QB from Wyoming will be one of our two 1st round selections. He has the most physical ability by far of all the prospects but is also very, very raw. His arm strength and gunslinger mentality along with the chip on his shoulder remind of young JK. Obviously Miami U and national titles helped mold Jim. Josh Allen does not have much experience and Wyoming is small scale but I still think his upside could be great. What vet could mentor him? He and a Tyrod are Apples and Oranges. Bradford might be an OK choice in this case. 

A lot of fans only look at the stats or don't consider what he's working with.  He doesn't have talent around him.  He's had to do everything unlike a lot of the other prospects who have top NFL talents around them.  I like him but he is very raw.  I think he will be picked high like Mahomes was and like Mahomes, should be placed behind a veteran QB to learn and be groomed.  He has all the physical tools.  He has the best arm strength and nice mobility.  Bradford would be a nice choice to be a one year guy to help groom a young QB.  That would allow us another year to put talent around the young QB and give him the best chance we can to succeed.  I think if we don't get either Rosen or Darnold, that should be the way we go.  We threw Losman and Manuel to the wolves when they certainly could've used some grooming first.  I hope they have patience with whoever they get this time even when the fans overreact about bringing in a veteran QB.  I am scared that the fans impatience will thrust the young QB into the starting lineup too early.  We will see.  Hope it works out.

 

 

[CommonCents]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well to be fair, its not just him facing those team in the Big Games...if Wyoming as a team isn't good enough it makes life rough on the QB too.  I haven't seen him enough to say one way or the other, but I am always hesitant to put too much emphasis on a QB's struggles when his small school faces much bigger competition because the overall roster of his small school likely pails to that of the top competition.  Thats not to excuse those struggles, just I try and avoid just looking at a stat box to understand his abilities in those cases.  

 

Josh draft predictions won't be relevant until he comes and shows what he can do in workouts and combine.  He has the potential to really shoot up the draft board if her can really impress this off season, possibly all the way up to the 3rd QB off the board.  

 

Honestly, Rosen and Darnold (assuming both are in the draft) are probably pretty safe bets to be the first 2 QB's taken, possibly the first 2 picks of the draft.  However, who will lock down the 3rd spot is highly congested right now.  Mason, Baker, Lamar, Allen, and possibly Falk or Lock could catapult themselves into the 3rd spot which is wide open right now.  I think it will be Baker honestly that is the 3rd QB taken, but thats as we sit today...lots will happen before now and draft time to shift the rankings behind Rosen and Darnold.  

 

My dark horse is Lamar.  The best thing to happen to him was Watson's early success this year and Russel Wilsons MVP candidate type season.  People could become enamored with hid dual threat ability if he can have a strong off season show casing his arm.  Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he raises his draft status to top a top 10 pick by the time draft gets here.  Now, I am NOT advocating we should target him, just that his resume is ridiculous and if he can show well throwing the ball he could be a guy that shoots up draft boards.  And honestly, there are a lot of people and sites that already have him as the 3rd best QB in this draft...even though I don't personally agree with that as I have him 5th right now behind Rosen, Darnold, Baker, and Allen.  But I also haven't reviewed enough of Allen, Mason, Falk, and Lock to really figure out what order to put behind the top 3.  

I haven't seen much of him either, saw a less than exciting interview with him though. He don't "look it" or "act it", I want a smart guy under center he looks more Mallet than he does Brady. Just my first impression.

 

He can throw the ball 75 plus yards though! I don't think Mcbeane will be chasing combine heros so I'm hoping we are safe on this one.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Lenigmusx said:

I find it very likely that Josh Allen QB from Wyoming will be one of our two 1st round selections. He has the most physical ability by far of all the prospects but is also very, very raw. His arm strength and gunslinger mentality along with the chip on his shoulder remind of young JK. Obviously Miami U and national titles helped mold Jim. Josh Allen does not have much experience and Wyoming is small scale but I still think his upside could be great. What vet could mentor him? He and a Tyrod are Apples and Oranges. Bradford might be an OK choice in this case. 

 

..have to say "no thanks" to Bradford.....TWO ACL's and trouble again makes him too much of a risk.....why such a stat drop off for Allen from 2016 to 2017?....I don't get to see college ball, so I have no idea...thanks for help...

[westerndecline]

He's one of the worst quarterbacks in the draft pass

[Just Joshin']

4 years after he is drafted  the critics will say all the warning signs were there for him to be a failure.

 

If not skilled in college why will he be better in the pros?

[The Now Moment]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..have to say "no thanks" to Bradford.....TWO ACL's and trouble again makes him too much of a risk.....why such a stat drop off for Allen from 2016 to 2017?....I don't get to see college ball, so I have no idea...thanks for help...

The talent on his team graduated and went to the NFL.  Wyoming can't reload as easily as the big name schools so he's been playing with scraps.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

The talent on his team graduated and went to the NFL.  Wyoming can't reload as easily as the big name schools so he's been playing with scraps.

 

....appreciate the info bud.....

[H2o]

At the beginning of the year they were calling him a better version of Patrick Mahomes. Not really sure what he is now. I've seen him make some amazing throws and some wtf throws. His game is kinda bipolar. Is it the talent around him or is it just him? That's what is hard to decipher. I wouldn't take him in the 1st or the 2nd right now. Maybe a 3rd depending on who's left at that point. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by H2o

[BuffaloBill]

27 minutes ago, Jasovon said:

I think if recent years have taught us anything it's that nobody has any clue who is going to be a good QB coming out of college. 

 

This is an overstatement... the issue probably has more to do with the fact that teams are willing to reach hard to get guys.  Then they do little to develop them before they are thrown into the fire.  

 

Personally I hope the Bills see Allen available in the third, or if really lucky the fourth then grab him after they have picked somebody else in the first round.

 

Create competition for the job and may the best man win.

[Alphadawg7]

29 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I haven't seen much of him either, saw a less than exciting interview with him though. He don't "look it" or "act it", I want a smart guy under center he looks more Mallet than he does Brady. Just my first impression.

 

He can throw the ball 75 plus yards though! I don't think Mcbeane will be chasing combine heros so I'm hoping we are safe on this one.

 

I unfortunately wanted to draft Mallet coming out of college and wanted us to take a chance on him in the 2nd/3rd round (did not want to in the first)...mainly because our QB situation was so terrible at the time and he had the arm for Buffalo weather.  But yeah, if he has Mallet type red flags, then my interest will be even lower in Allen.  I have mostly seen just highlights and recaps around Allen, so anyone can look good in those lol.  

 

I still think Baker Mayfield is the most likely QB to be drafted here as we sit here today...however, we all know the QB rankings will move around between now and draft day, so could easily change.  

 

So far the only rumors around Buffalo seem to be about their love of Darnold and their intent to possibly pursue Cousins hard.  But pretty ridiculous to put any stock into rumors in general, but even more so this far out.  

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Buffalo716]

Please no

 

He is all hype based on his physical attributes. Watching him I do not get the feeling of watching a top end QB

 

He has spotty accuracy and can make some questionable decisions 

 

He is Brock Osweiler mixed with EJ Manuel.

 

Great stature, big arm, pretty athletic, looks like a QB but never puts it all together 

 

he reminds me of Osweiler at Arizona State

[McBean]

1 hour ago, the skycap said:

We'll see today @4:00

 

 

In all all due respect, Central Michigan is no where elite. I don’t care if he throws for 500 yards and 8 TD’s today.

 

When he faced the big boys (Iowa and Oregon) this year, he looked worst than EJ Manuel in college.

 

For me, here’s my order of QB’s I want under Center next year...obviously wish list.

 

1. Darnold

2. Cousins

3. Rosen

 

 

I’m in the minority, but I want us to trade the house for Sam Darnold if he declares. The kid has everything you are looking for in a franchise QB.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Please no

 

He is all hype based on his physical attributes. Watching him I do not get the feeling of watching a top end QB

 

He has spotty accuracy and can make some questionable decisions 

 

He is Brock Osweiler mixed with EJ Manuel.

 

Great stature, big arm, pretty athletic, looks like a QB but never puts it all together 

 

he reminds me of Osweiler at Arizona State

 

 

....what's your take on the Rudolph kid?......some pundits have him going in the 20's which would mean some draft capital preservation......maybe not flashy, but would you consider him?............

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, McBean said:

 

 

In all all due respect, Central Michigan is no where elite. I don’t care if he throws for 500 yards and 8 TD’s today.

 

When he faced the big boys (Iowa and Oregon) this year, he looked worst than EJ Manuel in college.

 

For me, here’s my order of QB’s I want under Center next year...obviously wish list.

 

1. Darnold

2. Cousins

3. Rosen

 

 

I’m in the minority, but I want us to trade the house for Sam Darnold if he declares. The kid has everything you are looking for in a franchise QB.

Problem is, both Rosen and Darnold could go 1 and 2 to two QB needy teams in Cleveland and the Giants and Cousins isn't likely to sign here...then what

[McBean]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

Problem is, both Rosen and Darnold could go 1 and 2 to two QB needy teams in Cleveland and the Giants and Cousins isn't likely to sign here...then what

 

Then what?

 

Great question. Anything besides #5 under Center next year and I’ll be happy.

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, McBean said:

 

Then what?

 

Great question. Anything besides #5 under Center next year and I’ll be happy.

Haha I agree with that

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, McBean said:

 

Then what?

 

Great question. Anything besides #5 under Center next year and I’ll be happy.

 

....would #5 be jersey number or round selected or BOTH??....just askin'..............

[The Now Moment]

6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....would #5 be jersey number or round selected or BOTH??....just askin'..............

#5 Tyrod Taylor my man.  If we go into another year with him I might have an aneurysm 

[hemma]

He could be our very own Hackenberg.

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....what's your take on the Rudolph kid?......some pundits have him going in the 20's which would mean some draft capital preservation......maybe not flashy, but would you consider him?............

 

Mason Rudolph is an enigma...

 

He does have high end talent. Great size and he can spin the ball. Good to very good accuracy 

 

but his footwork has left a bit more to be desired. He tends to float balls when his footwork is off

 

and he operates from a true spread system. Numbers become inflated and receivers run wide open 

 

so I question if he can operate under center and perform 3-5 step drops on command

 

outside of his gimmicky offense and slight footwork problems he has everything you look for in a QB 

 

Size, toughness , arm talent, improvement year to tear

 

so I definitely think he falls into that 20-45 range and think he will get taken around there.

 

i would prefer him over Josh Allen 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

FWIW

[McBean]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....would #5 be jersey number or round selected or BOTH??....just askin'..............

 

If #5 has a Jersey on next year that has Taylor on the back and his first name is Tyrod, I will puke.

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

FWIW

 

Yeah that pretty much sums Allen up.

 

Kid is awful.

[Fadingpain]

Regarding Josh Allen: Do we know how smart this kid is?

 

It's more than obvious he has the physical attributes to get the job done.

 

The question for me is whether or not he is smart enough to mold into the NFL game.

 

Brees, Rodgers, and Brady all have one thing in common: by the standards of NFL players, they are bright guys who fit into normal society as just another average intelligence guy.  That means they are geniuses at the NFL level.

 

You can't be all brains (Fitz) and you can't be all brawn (EJ; Tyrod); you need both...but the NFL focuses on the guys with the body and not the brains.

 

Need both.

 

 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Lenigmusx said:

I find it very likely that Josh Allen QB from Wyoming will be one of our two 1st round selections. He has the most physical ability by far of all the prospects but is also very, very raw. His arm strength and gunslinger mentality along with the chip on his shoulder remind of young JK. Obviously Miami U and national titles helped mold Jim. Josh Allen does not have much experience and Wyoming is small scale but I still think his upside could be great. What vet could mentor him? He and a Tyrod are Apples and Oranges. Bradford might be an OK choice in this case. 

I appreciate the optimism. But nothing molded Kelly like the two years he spent in the USFL learning to read defenses under Mouse Davis. That said, if he possesses the physical traits and the aptitude for the position, then I'm all for taking a flyer on him. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Mason Rudolph is an enigma...

 

He does have high end talent. Great size and he can spin the ball. Good to very good accuracy 

 

but his footwork has left a bit more to be desired. He tends to float balls when his footwork is off

 

and he operates from a true spread system. Numbers become inflated and receivers run wide open 

 

so I question if he can operate under center and perform 3-5 step drops on command

 

outside of his gimmicky offense and slight footwork problems he has everything you look for in a QB 

 

Size, toughness , arm talent, improvement year to tear

 

so I definitely think he falls into that 20-45 range and think he will get taken around there.

 

i would prefer him over Josh Allen 

 

...here is my conundrum and I will have to depend on your expertise as far as collegiate candidates (don't get to see college ball unfortunately).....in my view, THE 1st test is mental as in grasping the speed & complexity of the NFL level game, reading defenses, reads/progressions/spotting receivers, and knowing when or if to pull it down and scramble....so far, I think Peterman has shown positive signs in those aspects while TT continues to struggle even after 7 years at this level.....TT trumps Peterman in the physical attributes segment of my assessment based on his wheels and scrambling ability......so if you could meld Peterman's mental attributes with a minimal portion of TT's physical attributes (could be trainable, but the mental aspect in my view is highly suspect), you could have a good guy on the roster....so what collegians come close to what I am advocating?.....nothing flashy, no Air Coryell/Fouts dreams, but a steady Eddie who can get us to the promised land?....

13 minutes ago, McBean said:

 

If #5 has a Jersey on next year that has Taylor on the back and his first name is Tyrod, I will puke.

 

 

 

...LOL...just checkin'.............

Edited December 22, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy