Do you take Lamar Jackson?

[section122]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

The mistake that a team that selects him can't make is follow the Robert Griffin III roadmap. RG III needed time to get stronger and learn how to play the pro game. Shanahan told the headstrong owner who was insistent on drafting him and mortgaging the future with lost picks that RG III was a talent but needed years to transition to the pro game. The worst thing that happened was that RG III had early success. He then went into his diva act that precluded him from learning how to play the pro game. I'm not suggesting that Griffin wasn't a worker because he was. But he was headstrong when  it came to learning how to play the position. In hindsight Shanahan was right on Griffin and remarkably was right on Cousins who he actually preferred. 

 

What I like about Jackson in comparison to Griffin is that he appears to have the vision and see plays develop that Griffin couldn't comprehend. It's not completely there yet but although it is still rudimentary you can see that the potential to develop into a more polished game. From everything I have heard about Lamar he is a good kid and a worker. Griffin was too concerned about being a personality while Jackson seems genuinely interested in the game. Again, I like him a lot but one has to be aware that he is a future investment without an immediate return.  

 

The bolded was supposedly what happened to Kaepernick as well.  Early success led to him not developing his game.  Then the league figured him out and he didn't/couldn't adapt.

[JohnC]

49 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

The bolded was supposedly what happened to Kaepernick as well.  Early success led to him not developing his game.  Then the league figured him out and he didn't/couldn't adapt.

Especially for qbs if you don't grow as a player you will not survive. As time went on both players accentuated what they did well while not improving on what they didn't do well. That was a big mistake. Kaepernick befuddled me in that he always threw a fastball without any demonstration of being able to throw with touch. He was a thrower and not a passer. RG III was different in that he was more of a passer. However, the fatal flaw that both players had was that neither had the vision and the ability to go through progressions. A fatal flaw that Tyrod also has.  

 

Both Kaepernick and RG III are super smart individuals. Kaepernick could have gone to an Ivy league school, and Stanford aggressively pursued him. But being smart doesn't necessarily mean that you can process the game and read defenses. In my view you either have it or you don't. At the qb position you can have all the physical talent in the world but if you don't have that processing trait you will not succeed. 

[NewEra]

If Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and Allen off the board I’d take Jackson.  

[mob16151]

I'd take Jackson,he has Elway type upside.

[Solomon Grundy]

On January 17, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

Beane stated that the QB they are looking for has to be able to make plays from the pocket....it's a must.

I don't think that's Jackson.

Why not?? He's made plays from the pocket, hasn't he?

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Why not?? He's made plays from the pocket, hasn't he?

 

I’m not a huge follower of Jackson so I’m not an expert.  What I’ve read about his negatives are he has developed into a better passer but still struggles with consistency from the pocket.  Major question marks on whether or not he can do it at the pro level.

[Solomon Grundy]

On January 17, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Like A Mofo said:

I have not studied Lamar Jackson a LOT, have watched a few games and he is a very exciting college QB.

 

Having said this, my 2 reasons why I would rather pass:

 

1. Accuracy: You have to be accurate in today's NFL, and I do not see that from Lamar.

2. Louisville QB's: Always leery of QB's from a Bobby Petrino offense.

Like Teddy Bridgewater?

[Solomon Grundy]

Here's some draft analysis about maybe the best QB in the NFL today.

 

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/203116571.html/

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/aaron-rodgers-2005-nfl-draft-scouting-reports

Analysis sound similar?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

[KDIGGZ]

he's an extremely talented athlete.  teams will sleep on him like they did to a lesser extent Deshaun Watson.  he certainly isn't going to wow anyone during the interview process so he could drop.  if he doesn't go in the 1st round he is a steal.  he's going to at least be a low level starter in the NFL based on his athleticism alone.  he's at the very least a taller version of Tyrod and I think a better passer with at least equal scrambling ability.  if you blitz him he's going to break free and make big plays.  if you sit back you better have a spy on him at all times.  a team like the Jets can and have done much worse.  Arizona Cardinals don't even have a QB so how can they pass on him?  i still worry about his longevity.  mobile QB's don't last very long in the NFL, especially ones like him with toothpick legs

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

Still not sold, but the play action around the 1:10 mark is beautiful.  

 

Looked like he short armed the second pass in the sequence, but the ball got there.

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

he's an extremely talented athlete.  teams will sleep on him like they did to a lesser extent Deshaun Watson.  he certainly isn't going to wow anyone during the interview process so he could drop.  if he doesn't go in the 1st round he is a steal.  he's going to at least be a low level starter in the NFL based on his athleticism alone.  he's at the very least a taller version of Tyrod and I think a better passer with at least equal scrambling ability.  if you blitz him he's going to break free and make big plays.  if you sit back you better have a spy on him at all times.  a team like the Jets can and have done much worse.  Arizona Cardinals don't even have a QB so how can they pass on him?  i still worry about his longevity.  mobile QB's don't last very long in the NFL, especially ones like him with toothpick legs

Why are you so certain he won’t impress in interviews?

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Still not sold, but the play action around the 1:10 mark is beautiful.  

 

Looked like he short armed the second pass in the sequence, but the ball got there.

He has a cannon and a bit of a flick for a delivery. Thought that it was a good video though. It certainly shows that he can play from the pocket.

[KDIGGZ]

11 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Why are you so certain he won’t impress in interviews?

watch some of his interviews and you will know why

[JohnC]

48 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He has a cannon and a bit of a flick for a delivery. Thought that it was a good video though. It certainly shows that he can play from the pocket.

In this year's draft the Bills have a variety of options to take with respect to the qb position. I would be more than happy with us staying put and taking DT Harrison Phillips from Stanford and Lamar Jackson with our two first  round picks. There is simply no excuse for us not to come away with a good qb prospect in this draft. 

[Jay_Fixit]

On 2018-01-19 at 1:51 PM, the skycap said:

Like Teddy Bridgewater?

Bridgewater didn’t play for Petrino.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He has a cannon and a bit of a flick for a delivery. Thought that it was a good video though. It certainly shows that he can play from the pocket.

I rarely criticize a player who decides to come out early because it is an individual's decision. From what I saw two years ago in his Heisman year to what I have seen this year he made a quantum leap from being a dynamic athletic qb to being a more well  rounded qb with the associated pocket presence and a more refined passing talent. What is noticeable this year is that even when he is moving around the pocket or rolling out his eyes are focused downfield. (That was very evident in the clip.)

 

In the ideal developmental situation he could have used another year of Petrino's coaching.  The coach is a first class slime ball and scoundrel but he knows how to coach an offense and qb. Without a doubt there are more polished prospects in this draft class but there is no qb, or player for that matter, who is as dynamic as he is. I would love to have him. 

 

 

[billspro]

I honestly would take him in the third. I don't think he is a fit for what McDermott wants to do on offence. I would rather have Rudolph or Mike White. 

 

You would need to have an Offensive coordinator that integrates the QB run into the offence and a backup QB that can run well. I would personally leave him in a college type system, he is going to be set up to fail in a pro-style offence. 

 

I do think Jackson can have success in the NFL, has to be the right fit though. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by billspro

[Mountain Man]

No I probably wouldn't, because I'd rather go D line, O line or LB in the 1st and take Mike White or Kyle Lauletta on day 2. I think both of those have the potential to be very good starters, but are more traditional so don't get hype like Jackson

[LEBills]

3 hours ago, Mountain Man said:

No I probably wouldn't, because I'd rather go D line, O line or LB in the 1st and take Mike White or Kyle Lauletta on day 2. I think both of those have the potential to be very good starters, but are more traditional so don't get hype like Jackson

If either Mike White or Lauletta go on the second day I’ll eat my shoe. On TBD, we fans always undervalue truly good prospects (saying we can’t afford to move up for them) and being willing to throw away early picks for mediocre QBs that will be there in the 5th. People literally said the same thing about Peterman going in the second round last year. 

[Solomon Grundy]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/lamar-jackson?id=2560053

[elroy16]

On 1/27/2018 at 12:07 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

 

 

 

I think the whole "can't throw from the pocket" narrative is lazy and not accurate at all. There's maybe two throws in that reel that aren't from the pocket and those were off of immediate pressure. Otherwise he's staying in the pocket and going through his progressions.

 

He's already 10x the passer Tyrod is. If you watched those highlights of Tyrod at VT, it's the same thing we've seen him do here, make a read or two, scramble around, and then make a throw. Jackson can and is willing to put the ball in tight spots.

 

 

 

I'd definitely take Jackson at 21, but I'm not convinced he'll be there. 

[CNY315]

I'm hoping we do

[Solomon Grundy]

Listening to the John Murphy Show today, Chris Brown stated that Lamar Jackson would be a better WR than a QB. His concern was Jackson's accuracy and his slight build. The problem I have with his assessment is that Josh Allen accuracy isn't much better and Rosen's stature is almost equivalent to Jackson's. Why are they considered to be QBs and Jackson isn't? 

[DCOrange]

19 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Listening to the John Murphy Show today, Chris Brown stated that Lamar Jackson would be a better WR than a QB. His concern was Jackson's accuracy and his slight build. The problem I have with his assessment is that Josh Allen accuracy isn't much better and Rosen's stature is almost equivalent to Jackson's. Why are they considered to be QBs and Jackson isn't? 

 

I'm relatively low on Rosen, but he's a more accurate passer right now than Lamar. I personally think Lamar is a better QB prospect than Rosen though.

 

Allen is considered a QB because he can't play anything else. Lamar is considered by some to be a WR because he's a freakish athlete. I have a very difficult time taking anyone seriously that believes he's a better WR prospect than he is a QB prospect though.

[John from Riverside]

On 12/5/2017 at 6:10 PM, JohnC said:

That's why you get your arse in gear and trade up with the extra picks that you have in your pocket. If you got coins why not use it? 

because all those qbs being taken pushes talent at other positions down to us that are needed like pdown linemen

 

Im not saying I dont agree with you especially if there is a guy that they like....but that is the argument.   This is gonna be a very important draft for Beane

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

 

...never have seen him play as I don't get to see college ball......thus I depend on TBD collegiate expert assessments......almost sounds like he is an "upscale TT".....am I close?.....how would he be an improvement over Tyrod?...thank you for the help.................

Edited February 7, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...never have seen him play as I don'tnl get to see college ball......thus I depend on TBD collegiate expert assessments......almost sounds like he is an "upscale TT".....am I close?.....how would he be an improvement over Tyrod?...thank you for the help.................

He is far from being a developed qb but he is much different from Taylor. First, he is a better passer and throws a nice ball. He has better pocket awareness than Taylor and when he is moving he keeps his head looking downfield and is more willing to throw the ball. 

 

What is most encouraging about him is that he made significant improvement from the previous year. He is not going to be immediately ready but he is a worker and takes his craft seriously. I would be more than happy to select him with one of our current first round picks. 

 

This is a WGR link with Ollie Connonly talking about the qb prospects. It is about 12 min. long. At the end of the discussion the guest talks about Jackson. He seems to like him. 

http://www.wgr550.com/media/audio-channel/02-07-ollie-connolly-cox-media-jeremy-and-sal-josh-allen

 

[John from Riverside]

32 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...never have seen him play as I don't get to see college ball......thus I depend on TBD collegiate expert assessments......almost sounds like he is an "upscale TT".....am I close?.....how would he be an improvement over Tyrod?...thank you for the help.................

 

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He is far from being a developed qb but he is much different from Taylor. First, he is a better passer and throws a nice ball. He has better pocket awareness than Taylor and when he is moving he keeps his head looking downfield and is more willing to throw the ball. 

 

What is most encouraging about him is that he made significant improvement from the previous year. He is not going to be immediately ready but he is a worker and takes his craft seriously. I would be more than happy to select him with one of our current first round picks. 

 

This is a WGR link with Ollie Connonly talking about the qb prospects. It is about 12 min. long. At the end of the discussion the guest talks about Jackson. He seems to like him. 

http://www.wgr550.com/media/audio-channel/02-07-ollie-connolly-cox-media-jeremy-and-sal-josh-allen

 

Im gonna say it would be different because the only thing that really holds Tyrod back is his reluctance to pull the trigger and throw the darn ball.

 

Lamar will throw it

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He is far from being a developed qb but he is much different from Taylor. First, he is a better passer and throws a nice ball. He has better pocket awareness than Taylor and when he is moving he keeps his head looking downfield and is more willing to throw the ball. 

 

What is most encouraging about him is that he made significant improvement from the previous year. He is not going to be immediately ready but he is a worker and takes his craft seriously. I would be more than happy to select him with one of our current first round picks. 

 

This is a WGR link with Ollie Connonly talking about the qb prospects. It is about 12 min. long. At the end of the discussion the guest talks about Jackson. He seems to like him. 

http://www.wgr550.com/media/audio-channel/02-07-ollie-connolly-cox-media-jeremy-and-sal-josh-allen

 

 

...thank you for your help...MUCH appreciated bud....

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, John from Hemet said:

 

Im gonna say it would be different because the only thing that really holds Tyrod back is his reluctance to pull the trigger and throw the darn ball.

 

Lamar will throw it

Taylor is a seven year vet with three years of starting. He is what he is just as Trent Edwards was who he was. Trust your eyes. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

 

Im gonna say it would be different because the only thing that really holds Tyrod back is his reluctance to pull the trigger and throw the darn ball.

 

Lamar will throw it

 

....I see TT as one that even though 7 years at this level, STILL struggles with the mental aspect of the game, namely reads, progressions, defenses, spotting/trusting receivers....sure Jackson is a rook, but are those his early and similar tendencies from your observations?.....my observation of the Peterman kid so far (obviously limited) is that he has shown a better grasp of the mental game especially this early on......physical part can come later with the S&T staff...

Edited February 7, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Solomon Grundy]

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/08/buffalo-bills-lamar-jackson-deshaun-watson/

[Solomon Grundy]

I have this feeling that Denver is gonna trade back in the draft and take Lamar Jackson. I'm thinking John Elway sees too much potential in him. The arm strength and the speed is Elway like. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 12/5/2017 at 7:18 AM, Bakin said:

I assume you mean Baker?

assume yes that he's available. 

Do you take Baker over Lamar?

 

Yes,  I think so, provided he satisfies me in his interview.  I'm not so much worried about the flag-planting or crotch grabbing incident as about all the thin-skinned clapback on twitter.  Jackson in interviews is very laid-back and quiet, I'd like to know if he's fired up and fiercer in the huddle, if he has confidence in himself as a leader.

 

I can't exactly tell you why though.  Maybe someone here can verbalize it for me.  I guess I think Baker's footwork and mechanics are further advanced than Jackson, he seems like he might be a more inspirational leader kind of guy.  To set against that, I think Jackson is further along with a more complex offense and making progressions, is further along (I think) with stepping up into throwing lanes and evading pressure within the pocket instead of rolling out, and of course has the greater height.

 

 

On 12/5/2017 at 7:25 AM, The Jokeman said:

I'm resistant as he doesn't have the best of completion percentages, I know it's one stat but it worries me that he's another great college athletic QB and not a pure passer which is what you need to maintain long term success in the NFL. 

 

I worried about that too, but after watching I'm worried less.  His WR have the actual highest percentage of drops of any of the QB -12% - and he improved between So and Jr year to 59%.  Even if you think the drop statistic is bogus, give him 1/4 of those and he's well up over 60%.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 12/5/2017 at 7:26 PM, JohnC said:

You got my juices flowing watching that clip. As I stated in a prior clip he made a quantum leap from his first year to the second. That tells you not only what he is capable of but that he is willing to put in the work to play the position. Anyone who believes that he is going to last until the second round is going to be late for the bus that already passed them by.

 

I'll put it out there, I could be wrong, but I just don't think Tyrod could make that throw on three levels:

1) I don't see Tyrod sidestepping and moving up into that throwing lane.  I think he'd sense the pressure arnd roll out and be gone especially since

2) I don't see Tyrod, even after 3 years as a starter, being able to make the progressions that Jackson makes there.

3) I don't think Tyrod can throw with anticipation like that.  He will lead the receiver slightly at times.  Jackson made that throw well before the receiver was there.

 

I don't know where Jackson will go.  I think there are a bunch of NFL GMs and execs who see it as a negative to add 1500 yds rushing to 3600 yds passing, who see

 3600 yds passing with no running as "better".  I say, it depends upon what the passing looks like.  If it looks like that....

On 12/11/2017 at 4:18 AM, Billsfansinceday1 said:

After hearing him speak prior to the Heisman Award ceremony, I was wondering how his Wonderlic will turn out.  He didn't come across as a guy who will be able to incorporate a complex NFL offensive scheme.  I may be completely wrong, and, in fact, hope I am.

 

I think he's a shy guy uncomfortable with media attention, and he was totally unprepared for NYC and the whole Heisman experience.  He's from a small town in Florida IIRC and Louisville seemed big to him.  I read an article that said Petrino signed him up to take some public speaking classes and to handle the local media sessions because he recognized that it would be a challenge for him.

 

I would rely more on talking to him especially about football than the Wonderlic.  IMO it's kind of like the SAT, the results correlate with economic background.  The savvy interviewers are going to take some pains to put him at his ease so they can take him apart and find out what's really in there.

On 2/14/2018 at 6:32 PM, the skycap said:

I have this feeling that Denver is gonna trade back in the draft and take Lamar Jackson. I'm thinking John Elway sees too much potential in him. The arm strength and the speed is Elway like. 

 

I could be wrong, but I think Elway sees Denver as being able to win now and having a closing window, and Jackson as being a QB who will need 1-2 years to hit his NFL stride.  They are drafting higher, and I think Elway will look for someone who is closer to ready (if he doesn't go after Cousins)

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 12/30/2017 at 1:08 PM, H2o said:

He has the 'it' factor, I agree. I also recognize the off the charts athleticism. I will still say he will not succeed at QB in the NFL. His mechanics are faulty along with his footwork at times. It makes him just not that accurate. People try to fix these things and more times than not it fails. If he willingly switches to WR then he has the potential to be the most successful to do so yet, more so than Edelman. He is a slightly taller clone of Tyrod, with a lower level of accuracy. He's not Vick reincarnate like some want to believe. 

 

What is your take on Allen? 

On Darnold?

 

Why do you think Jackson has lower accuracy than Tyrod did as a Jr in college?

[ALF]

I've watched  his interview , you can tell he is from a humble background , very respectful , wears a big crucifix. I will bet he will work hard to be successful.

 

I hope he has a good career , rooting for him. 

 

The junior quarterback ran a 4.34-second 40 ,     wow

 

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2017/03/09/lamar-jackson-runs-40-yard-dash/98930194/

 

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by ALF

[H2o]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What is your take on Allen? 

On Darnold?

 

Why do you think Jackson has lower accuracy than Tyrod did as a Jr in college?

The argument with Allen is the lack of talent around him. I can see that. He was at Wyoming. Wyoming isn't exactly a recruiting haven of any kind. He has athletic ability that you either are gifted with or you don't have it at all. It is in some different ways, but he and Jackson are both gifted athletes. Allen can make some jaw-dropping throws at times, but you worry about the consistency and mental makeup. Overall he has a cannon for an arm, can make any throw standing still or on the move, and he is a big boy. I wouldn't trade up for him, but would roll the dice if we stand pat and he is there at #21. 

 

Darnold is another guy qho seems to have all the tools desired in a franchise QB. He also has A LOT more NFL level talent around him at USC than these other guys had. To me that is the worry. He's coming off of a season with a lot of turnovers and bad decisions that are on the game tape. In the NFL windows are smaller and open for less time than in college. Does he have what it takes mentally to succeed? He is mobile enough to move around in the pocket or scramble if necessary. He as well can make every throw. He doesn't have Allen's arm strength, but has enough to throw to all levels. Another guy I would not trade up for, but roll the dice on at #21. 

 

Jackson is an electric athlete. There is no questioning that. He also certainly had better talent around him than Josh Allen did at Wyoming. He played in a Bobby Petrino offense that is famous for big numbers as well. He still couldn't put up a 60% completion percentage in college. People want to talk about adjusted numbers for his completion percentage, but is that just a ball that hits his receiver's hands in general? I have watched the guy numerous times. His ball placement is everywhere, his mechanics are everywhere, and he misses open guys a lot. He's also less accurate throwing the ball to the deeper levels than any of the other top QB's. In the NFL guys are bigger, faster, and stronger than ever before. Will his running style translate or will it get him killed? I see defenses loading the box and making him try to beat you with his arm. I don't think he can. I wouldn't draft the guy unless he was there in the 3rd and then he would have to be open to a position change. I don't think he sticks as a QB in the NFL. 

[Buffalo Bills Detective]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

The argument with Allen is the lack of talent around him. I can see that. He was at Wyoming. Wyoming isn't exactly a recruiting haven of any kind. He has athletic ability that you either are gifted with or you don't have it at all. It is in some different ways, but he and Jackson are both gifted athletes. Allen can make some jaw-dropping throws at times, but you worry about the consistency and mental makeup. Overall he has a cannon for an arm, can make any throw standing still or on the move, and he is a big boy. I wouldn't trade up for him, but would roll the dice if we stand pat and he is there at #21. 

 

Darnold is another guy qho seems to have all the tools desired in a franchise QB. He also has A LOT more NFL level talent around him at USC than these other guys had. To me that is the worry. He's coming off of a season with a lot of turnovers and bad decisions that are on the game tape. In the NFL windows are smaller and open for less time than in college. Does he have what it takes mentally to succeed? He is mobile enough to move around in the pocket or scramble if necessary. He as well can make every throw. He doesn't have Allen's arm strength, but has enough to throw to all levels. Another guy I would not trade up for, but roll the dice on at #21. 

 

Jackson is an electric athlete. There is no questioning that. He also certainly had better talent around him than Josh Allen did at Wyoming. He played in a Bobby Petrino offense that is famous for big numbers as well. He still couldn't put up a 60% completion percentage in college. People want to talk about adjusted numbers for his completion percentage, but is that just a ball that hits his receiver's hands in general? I have watched the guy numerous times. His ball placement is everywhere, his mechanics are everywhere, and he misses open guys a lot. He's also less accurate throwing the ball to the deeper levels than any of the other top QB's. In the NFL guys are bigger, faster, and stronger than ever before. Will his running style translate or will it get him killed? I see defenses loading the box and making him try to beat you with his arm. I don't think he can. I wouldn't draft the guy unless he was there in the 3rd and then he would have to be open to a position change. I don't think he sticks as a QB in the NFL. 

It will get him killed.  Just wait until he takes off running and a 205 pound safety comes up and hits him low, completely destroying his knee.  Then, we can watch as his regresses to the level of EJ or Trent Edwards, because he'll be so afraid to take another low hit.