The Frankish Reich Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 It applies across the roster I am afraid. Kirby was making the point in the surprise cuts thread, and I agree with him, that there don't appear to be 53 NFL calibre football players on this team as it stands. Go back to 2015 and we were cutting people who ended up on other rosters..... the lines of Deonte Thompson and Ross Cockrell et al. That 2015 roster should have been a playoff team. It really should. More than any other year that team was built to compete. Yup. In retrospect, that was the famous window of opportunity. The peak of the talent cycle. Whatever the hell you want to call it. And it all disappeared behind a blob of fat Rex. You guys gonna try and get this Hogan thread to 200 pages? Don't you think we should resurrect the old one? The "I still miss Hogan?" I loved how every time he caught a pass it would be bumped back to the top. (Umm, did I do that once or twice myself?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Yeah... he's a good player. Works hard, gym rat, athletic gets open... No surprise he's successful there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) How did Andy Levitre look this week?Levitre had an excellent season last year. Your point?You guys gonna try and get this Hogan thread to 200 pages?He's a good player. The Bills let him leave. He will therefore be discussed. It is what it is. Edited August 31, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Levitre had an excellent season last year. Your point? He's a good player. The Bills let him leave. He will therefore be discussed. It is what it is. He was an average wr that went to a team with possibly the best qb of all time, and reached the statues of slightly above average. It is what certain posters are making it out to be. Some here just love to wallow in misery. Being upset about the loss if Sammy is completely understandable. Being upset about the loss of hogan is just a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 He was an average wr that went to a team with possibly the best qb of all time, and reached the statues of slightly above average. It is what certain posters are making it out to be. Some here just love to wallow in misery. Being upset about the loss if Sammy is completely understandable. Being upset about the loss of hogan is just a waste of time. Or some of us actually thought he was already better than that when he was here? I have never been a wallower in misery over Hogan and my posting history is clear. I was proposing he be the #2 ahead of Woods and Harvin in 2015. I just think he is good. Same with Gilmore I don't think he is good because he went to NE. I thought he was good when he was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Or some of us actually thought he was already better than that when he was here? I have never been a wallower in misery over Hogan and my posting history is clear. I was proposing he be the #2 ahead of Woods and Harvin in 2015. I just think he is good. Same with Gilmore I don't think he is good because he went to NE. I thought he was good when he was here. Very well put, GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Still think he would have been worth the money. Not an all-pro, but just plain worth the money. I agree but Whaley's ability to evaluate talent was epically bad. Three years ago I was constantly saying to fire Whaley and getting hammered for it. Now you can really see what little talent and depth we have on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Or some of us actually thought he was already better than that when he was here? I have never been a wallower in misery over Hogan and my posting history is clear. I was proposing he be the #2 ahead of Woods and Harvin in 2015. I just think he is good. Same with Gilmore I don't think he is good because he went to NE. I thought he was good when he was here. I certainly don't think hogan is bad. Hes a hard working guy, and he deserves any success that he achieves. I just don't think he would have had any real impact for the positive had he stayed here. Not that he couldn't have helped depth, but it's certainly not like losing Sammy. To still be complaining about the loss of hogan after this time is just complaining for the sake of complaining at this point. It's over. He's gone, and it wasn't this staff'a fault that it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Really? We're still starting Hogan threads every time he catches a ball in pre-season? Can't wait for new threads every time Gilly punches in a 1 yard TD. Thank God Sammy has the worst QB situation in the league. Really? Have you checked who the Bills have available to play QB? I wouldn't be surprised if Watkins caught more TD passes this season than the entire Bills receiving corps. That doesn't mean I think Watkins will necessarily light up the league, but that I think if the Bills score 10 passing TDs this season, that will be a lot. The Bills passing offense is non-existence and looks to remain so. He was an average wr that went to a team with possibly the best qb of all time, and reached the statues of slightly above average. It is what certain posters are making it out to be. Some here just love to wallow in misery. Being upset about the loss if Sammy is completely understandable. Being upset about the loss of hogan is just a waste of time. And some here just like to believe that the clowns at OBD drive are even interested in building a winning football team, so they keep making excuses for them letting go or shipping out good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 And some here just like to believe that the clowns at OBD drive are even interested in building a winning football team, so they keep making excuses for them letting go or shipping out good players. this nonsense. not a single person is making excuses for anyone. some of us just realize that losing an average wr over a year ago isn't worth continually complaining over. it wasn't even an action by the staff in place now, so what exactly are you accomplishing by repeatedly mentioning chris hogan? i swear some of you aren't happy unless you're whining about something. if you really don't think the "clowns at obd are even interested in building a winning team" why watch? is your time that worthless? sack up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 JAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I certainly don't think hogan is bad. Hes a hard working guy, and he deserves any success that he achieves. I just don't think he would have had any real impact for the positive had he stayed here. Not that he couldn't have helped depth, but it's certainly not like losing Sammy. To still be complaining about the loss of hogan after this time is just complaining for the sake of complaining at this point. It's over. He's gone, and it wasn't this staff'a fault that it happened. I try really hard not to let whether a guy is a Bill or not affect how I see someone. I watch lots of football from across the league to try and avoid seeing things always through the Bills lens. We all have biases I am sure but I won't say someone is good just because they are a Bill and then say they suck just because they aren't. My view on Hogan is the same now as it was when he was here. Some Bills players we have a tendency to overrate, others we have a tendency to underrate. Cordy Glenn is a classic example of a guy I think we underrate. His consistency level is really outstanding since he came into the league. He is certainly a top 10 LT in the league and he is bordering right on the top 5. When you watch the standard of LT play across the league you thank your lucky stars we have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I try really hard not to let whether a guy is a Bill or not affect how I see someone. I watch lots of football from across the league to try and avoid seeing things always through the Bills lens. We all have biases I am sure but I won't say someone is good just because they are a Bill and then say they suck just because they aren't. My view on Hogan is the same now as it was when he was here. Some Bills players we have a tendency to overrate, others we have a tendency to underrate. Cordy Glenn is a classic example of a guy I think we underrate. His consistency level is really outstanding since he came into the league. He is certainly a top 10 LT in the league and he is bordering right on the top 5. When you watch the standard of LT play across the league you thank your lucky stars we have him. i think you're pretty spot on with all of this. we've seen a ton of good to great players walk from this team, and it was tough to see sammy and gilmore added to the list. there are big changes coming, so at this point, i'm just going to sit back and watch how this unfolds. if this team finally picks a decent qb, we won't be in this losing hell. at the same time, i think we all know this could end in disaster as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PABillsfan23 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Still think he would have been worth the money. Not an all-pro, but just plain worth the money. Not worth the money here with Tyrod throwing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Really? Have you checked who the Bills have available to play QB? I wouldn't be surprised if Watkins caught more TD passes this season than the entire Bills receiving corps. That doesn't mean I think Watkins will necessarily light up the league, but that I think if the Bills score 10 passing TDs this season, that will be a lot. The Bills passing offense is non-existence and looks to remain so. And some here just like to believe that the clowns at OBD drive are even interested in building a winning football team, so they keep making excuses for them letting go or shipping out good players. . To suggest that the coaches and front office of the Bills, or any professional sports team for that matter, are not interested in building a winning team is beyond ignorant. By the way as much as I loved Sammy he had zero catches last weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 During an interview on "the Herd" Rob was discussing the Patriots and Brady. Cowherd asked how hard was it for him when in Buffalo to stop BB, Brady and the Pats. Rob went into detail how when he was working under BB that he never met someone as brilliant & intelligent as him when it came to football and utilizing what he had. Cowherd brought up how Hogan was a fringe player here but Brady made him into a solid number 3 receiver, Rob replied by saying Hogan was a very good player and that when Rex found out they lost Hogan to the Pats, that he was really pissed off at the front office because part of the plan in the off-season was to keep him. Here's the link for those interested. I can see how Rex would be miffed at losing Hogan and how Whaley couldn't figure out to free up $700K of cap space to tender at a higher amount. And frankly, it's a weird roster planning that if you're counting on the guy to be a big part of the plans in 2016, how do you not extend him over a longer term, especially knowing that Woods & Goodwin are both FAs in 2017? More fodder for the cannon of why Whaley is unemployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) More fodder for the cannon of why Whaley is unemployed. Whaley's approach to team-building was completely un-strategic. The Pegulas let two scouts, neither of whom had demonstrated an ability to think strategically or manage an organization, run their multi-million dollar sports businesses. The results were predictable and dismal: Murray and Whaley ran their respective organizations into the ground. I do not blame Murray and Whaley. I blame their boss. Edited August 31, 2017 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Here's the link for those interested. I can see how Rex would be miffed at losing Hogan and how Whaley couldn't figure out to free up $700K of cap space to tender at a higher amount. And frankly, it's a weird roster planning that if you're counting on the guy to be a big part of the plans in 2016, how do you not extend him over a longer term, especially knowing that Woods & Goodwin are both FAs in 2017? More fodder for the cannon of why Whaley is unemployed. I've seen that interview and I don't remember that bit. Where is it in the interview? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Whaley's approach to team-building was completely un-strategic. The Pegulas let two scouts, neither of whom had demonstrated an ability to think strategically or manage an organization, run their multi-million dollar sports businesses. The results were predictable and dismal: Murray and Whaley ran their respective organizations into the ground. I do not blame Murray and Whaley. I blame their boss. Isn't that a contradiction? 1 - Pegula didn't hire Whaley 2 - When Pegula realized the GMs were running the teams into the ground, he fired them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Isn't that a contradiction? 1 - Pegula didn't hire Whaley 2 - When Pegula realized the GMs were running the teams into the ground, he fired them No. Pegula empowered Whaley and Murray, and let them run their teams into the ground. He should've put far more checks in place to mitigate the risk of hiring/retaining unproven scouts as GMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I'm more upset about how Whaley and Overdorf handled it. They put the minimal tender on Hogan, they could have spent another $850K and put a second round tender on him. So at least we would have gotten a second round pick if we did not match the pats offer. And if the pats did not go after him we would have kept him for one year $2.5 million. Pats signed him to three years $12 million. So they felt he was worth $4 million a year but we didn't tender him for a second or $2.5 million. More proof how mismanaged this team was. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 This. There is no disputing - NONE - that the Bills screwed up the tendering on Hogan. Anyone who argues otherwise is a troll, I'm sorry to say. It's fine to debate whether Hogan is a good player or not, but it's clear that the Bills mis-assigned the tender and failed strategically to plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Isn't that a contradiction? 1 - Pegula didn't hire Whaley 2 - When Pegula realized the GMs were running the teams into the ground, he fired them Pegula gave Whaley an extension first. He believed in him enough to warrant an extension: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Here's the link for those interested. I can see how Rex would be miffed at losing Hogan and how Whaley couldn't figure out to free up $700K of cap space to tender at a higher amount. And frankly, it's a weird roster planning that if you're counting on the guy to be a big part of the plans in 2016, how do you not extend him over a longer term, especially knowing that Woods & Goodwin are both FAs in 2017? More fodder for the cannon of why Whaley is unemployed. Thanks - I did not know this about Rex and Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Captain I am still torn about Whaley. Don't get me wrong, I am glad at this stage he is gone. However, he did some good things and then just plain did some boneheaded things. Will he ever get another GM chance in this League? Maybe with the old "I didn't pick the Coach" excuse, which may be a good one. Whaley was a fine evaluate of talent. But he didnt understand building a roster or the cap. It why cheap dependable contributors like Gilislee and Hogan are going to compete for a Super Bowl contender and we are scouring the waiver wire hoping for a gem. Sammy was/is immensely talented. Is he worth 2 first round picks? Absolutely not Is Dareus a great player? yeah when he wants to be, but his contract is absurd. Same thing with Clay. Solid player, best TE in years - way overpaid Whaley would be a tremendous college scout. I wouldnt want him anywhere near contract negotiations, or the final 53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 . To suggest that the coaches and front office of the Bills, or any professional sports team for that matter, are not interested in building a winning team is beyond ignorant. By the way as much as I loved Sammy he had zero catches last weekend. Really? Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Ruben Brown, Pat Williams, Jabari Greer, Willis McGahee, Jason Peters, Donte Whitner, Marshawn Lynch, Chris Hogan, and now Stephon Gilmore all say "Hi." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Really? Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Ruben Brown, Pat Williams, Jabari Greer, Willis McGahee, Jason Peters, Donte Whitner, Marshawn Lynch, Chris Hogan, and now Stephon Gilmore all say "Hi." Which has nothing to do with your saying they don't want to win. Which remains among the dumber statements ever made on any Bills related board I've read. Organizations make value judgments on players. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong. Sometimes players get huge deals in free agency. And none of it means they organization is purposefully trying not to win. To say so is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Really? Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Ruben Brown, Pat Williams, Jabari Greer, Willis McGahee, Jason Peters, Donte Whitner, Marshawn Lynch, Chris Hogan, and now Stephon Gilmore all say "Hi." You're so edgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 He was an average wr that went to a team with possibly the best qb of all time, and reached the statues of slightly above average. It is what certain posters are making it out to be. Some here just love to wallow in misery. Being upset about the loss if Sammy is completely understandable. Being upset about the loss of hogan is just a waste of time. But not enough of a waste of time for you to post. Right. i swear some of you aren't happy unless you're whining about something. Like you on Hogan posts. Poster boy for whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 But not enough of a waste of time for you to post. Right. Like you on Hogan posts. Poster boy for whining. jesus guy...how much did you like hogan? do you have a fetish for average receivers? the guy has been gone for over a year. don't you think it's time to move on? try not to be so emotionally attached already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 jesus guy...how much did you like hogan? do you have a fetish for average receivers? the guy has been gone for over a year. don't you think it's time to move on? try not to be so emotionally attached already. Lest we forget that Da'Rick was cut to make room for 7-11 in what amounted to the single worst decision OBD has ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Lest we forget that Da'Rick was cut to make room for 7-11 in what amounted to the single worst decision OBD has ever made. oh da'rick! is that dude still in the league? if he is, expect me to start a thread anytime he touches a ball in the preseason, because apparently that's a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 oh da'rick! is that dude still in the league? if he is, expect me to start a thread anytime he touches a ball in the preseason, because apparently that's a thing. He is not. But when he was we did have exactly that thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 The Gillislee mis-tender was worse than the Hogan mis-tender. Reilly reminds me a lot of Hogan. Can't wait to see the BR89 clothing line come out after he makes a few big plays once the Patriots* find a way to make him productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Levitre had an excellent season last year. Your point? He's a good player. The Bills let him leave. He will therefore be discussed. It is what it is. So true re: Hogan. Conversely, there is a faction who could give a flying !@#$. Is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Or some of us actually thought he was already better than that when he was here? I have never been a wallower in misery over Hogan and my posting history is clear. I was proposing he be the #2 ahead of Woods and Harvin in 2015. I just think he is good. Same with Gilmore I don't think he is good because he went to NE. I thought he was good when he was here. And you'd be right. Both were good players. Not great, but solid competent NFL level talent contributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kballhog Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 jesus guy...how much did you like hogan? do you have a fetish for average receivers? the guy has been gone for over a year. don't you think it's time to move on? try not to be so emotionally attached already. I think Hogan will put up better numbers than "average" myself, but he does have Brady throwing to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts