Go on record regarding the trades

[dgrochester55]

Yes to the Darby trade,No to Watkins. This was disappointing, but nowhere near as bad as trading Lynch and McGahee for small change as Buffalo did in the past I feel much better than I did on Friday.

 

I never thought much of Darby, so to get a 3rd round pick and a receiver capable of starting and being a #1(although not at Watkins level) is an accomplishment.

 

I understand getting something for Watkins if he is not returning. It did not look like he was. As others have said, if they were going to trade him, than why not exercise the 5th year and get more out of the trade. The second round pick will help, and Gaines replaces Darby. People i know that have watched Gaines, say that this was a good add and that we will be pleasantly surprised. Still not market value for Watkins.

 

I am very curious to see Watkins career path. He may live up to the franchise WR potential, but he may keep getting hurt and be out of the league in a few years. This will clearly be the biggest factor in what makes or breaks the trade long term.

[GunnerBill]

People i know that have watched Gaines, say that this was a good add and that we will be pleasantly surprised.

 

 

If he can get back to his form pre-injury I think they will be right. Health is as big of a question mark with him as it is with Sammy.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

If he can get back to his form pre-injury I think they will be right. Health is as big of a question mark with him as it is with Sammy.

I don't know much about the Rams' system. Is this any friendlier for CBs than theirs? Could that help his production & confidence?

[YoloinOhio]

I don't know much about the Rams' system. Is this any friendlier for CBs than theirs? Could that help his production & confidence?

its Wade Phillips system now so McD's is more CB friendly imo Edited August 14, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[GunnerBill]

its Wade Phillips system now so McD's is more CB friendly imo

 

Correct and it was Gregg Williams system in which Gaines played as a rook and played well..... also complex and involved him lining up in the slot in some looks and then on the boundary in others. It is worth saying he played well when the guys up front were getting pressure..... last year when the front 4 struggled more he struggled more. The key to Gaines is going to be health and pass rush.

[SoulMan]

Looking forward to next year draft !

 

Sammy wasn't staying anyway.

Edited August 14, 2017 by SoulMan

[Wsam4031]

Hate the trade. Id like to know where the ppl who say "he was gone after this year anyways'" is getting that info. The guy had some bad luck with injuries. he broke a bone in his foot and broke some ribs a few years ago. Broken bones don't mean injury prone it means bad luck. Draft picks are great but they are 50/50 on if they work out or not. We should be keeping our young players that are good, not trading them for inferior players and crapshoot draft picks. Not sure where all the love for Matthews comes from but he is not good. The Eagles were going to cut him this year anyways. Stats look good but wait until you see how many drops he has. Oh yea and by the way hes week to week now with an injury so he wont be on the field. Typical Buffalo luck trade an "Injury prone" guy for someone whos not and then they get injured on the first practice. I hope my whole post is wrong looking back on it later and Beane and McDermott look good but its hard for me to see that right now.

[oldmanfan]

Hate the trade. Id like to know where the ppl who say "he was gone after this year anyways'" is getting that info. The guy had some bad luck with injuries. he broke a bone in his foot and broke some ribs a few years ago. Broken bones don't mean injury prone it means bad luck. Draft picks are great but they are 50/50 on if they work out or not. We should be keeping our young players that are good, not trading them for inferior players and crapshoot draft picks. Not sure where all the love for Matthews comes from but he is not good. The Eagles were going to cut him this year anyways. Stats look good but wait until you see how many drops he has. Oh yea and by the way hes week to week now with an injury so he wont be on the field. Typical Buffalo luck trade an "Injury prone" guy for someone whos not and then they get injured on the first practice. I hope my whole post is wrong looking back on it later and Beane and McDermott look good but its hard for me to see that right now.

Are you saying Sammy wasn't injury prone?

[Wsam4031]

im saying he had some bad luck his first few years here. I don't think broken bones constitute injury prone. The guy has never had problems before coming to the NFL. He was injured but no I don't think he was injury prone per se

[CodeMonkey]

I voted no only because I am disappointed with a 2nd and a meh player for Watkins. They didn't get any value for a good, and potentially great, WR. Particularly when you consider the heavy price the Bills paid for him. I'm happy for Watkins, I watched an interview with him during a preseason game over the weekend and he seemed VERY happy with the situation. But I think the Bills absolutely got the short end of that trade.

[ROONDOGG55]

People will always look at these two trades separately, but the Bills made these trades all on one day for a reason. They essentially traded a B+ WR, a C+ CB, and a 6th round pick for a 2nd, 3rd, C- CB, and B WR. The fact that we can gain comp picks from both player acquisitions makes this deal a tad bit more sweeter. I like where this new style of management is heading. Championships are won through the draft, not free agency.

 

Now you can argue that Sammy was an A+, but he's not. He hasn't reached that level of play yet because of injuries. Darby could also be a B+ caliber player, but took a huge step back last year. He struggles way too much against size and really quick WR. The same can go with newly acquired CB Gaines. He had a wonderful rookie year, but slumped out the next two due to injuries. The benefit with him is his physicality whether he is in the slot, outside, or on special teams. Jordan Mathews reminds me of a poor mans Larry Fitzgerald, with his size, athleticism, and character. He obviously won't make as many bang bang plays like Sammy, but he catch contested passes, and go up for jump balls when needed. Which is something we have lacked over the years.

 

All together, these trades were made in unison, and should be treated that way. I hate to see guys with talent leave, but we are setting ourselves up with decent replacements and potential playmakers in the future.

 

Go Bills!

[GunnerBill]

People will always look at these two trades separately, but the Bills made these trades all on one day for a reason. They essentially traded a B+ WR, a C+ CB, and a 6th round pick for a 2nd, 3rd, C- CB, and B WR. The fact that we can gain comp picks from both player acquisitions makes this deal a tad bit more sweeter. I like where this new style of management is heading. Championships are won through the draft, not free agency.

 

 

Agree you have to look at the trades together. I'd say Sammy is an A- and Jordan a B- is my only quibble. And I liked Jordan as a fit here earlier in the offseason.

[ROONDOGG55]

 

 

Agree you have to look at the trades together. I'd say Sammy is an A- and Jordan a B- is my only quibble. And I liked Jordan as a fit here earlier in the offseason.

Most definitely! It can go either way. I bumped down for Sammy, and up with Jordan for the availability of each player. If the chest injury worsens , and he misses a lot of time then this trade will lose some credibility, but won't be a bust because of the picks.

[Section242]

Do you know how old Jordan Matthews and EJ Gaines are?

 

I don't think either are the caliber player of Watkins. Nor do I think they have superstar potential that Watkins has.

[BUFFALOKIE]

For the record.... way too many threads on the subject.

[Figster]

For the record.... way too many threads on the subject.

For the record the trade put everything into a funk including TBD message board.

 

Do we even dare post positive thoughts and if so, about what, next years draft?

[BUFFALOKIE]

For the record the trade put everything into a funk including TBD message board.

 

Do we even dare post positive thoughts and if so, about what, next years draft?

Yes.

[Doc]

I don't think either are the caliber player of Watkins. Nor do I think they have superstar potential that Watkins has.

Sammy is a more talented wide receiver than Matthews. I don't think anybody would dispute that. And Gaines doesn't need to be the caliber of Sammy, he just needs to be better than Darby was last year, which was lousy.

 

But that wasn't the point. You basically said that the Bills were giving up on the future by trading those two and acquiring the other two. But Matthews has been in the league as long as Sammy has (and both are UFAs at the end of the year) and Gaines has been in the league one more year than Darby has, but missed one of those seasons entirely.

[Section242]

Sammy is a more talented wide receiver than Matthews. I don't think anybody would dispute that. And Gaines doesn't need to be the caliber of Sammy, he just needs to be better than Darby was last year, which was lousy.

 

But that wasn't the point. You basically said that the Bills were giving up on the future by trading those two and acquiring the other two. But Matthews has been in the league as long as Sammy has (and both are UFAs at the end of the year) and Gaines has been in the league one more year than Darby has, but missed one of those seasons entirely.

Watkins should've been a franchise corner stone. Matthews and Gaines aren't that.

[sjjr]

Sammy is a good player but a franchise corner stone?

 

Receivers that I can think of that have been franchise corner stones in recent years would be Julio Jones, AJ Green, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, (Calvin Johnson-not successful team). All of these players had elite size and the ability to make spectacular catches downfield even when being heavily covered.

 

Sammy has good size and speed, not elite. He's a great route runner with great hands but not elite after the catch. He seems to play his best and stay healthy when he's playing to get drafted or possibly in a contract year like in 2017. It was a reach to draft him at 4 and that's probably one of the major reasons Marrone did what he did and now Whaley has lost his job.

 

He's a good player but not a franchise corner stone. Matthews will be productive and a few years from now, people will be very pleased with these trades.

[26CornerBlitz]

Sammy is a good player but a franchise corner stone?

 

Receivers that I can think of that have been franchise corner stones in recent years would be Julio Jones, AJ Green, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, (Calvin Johnson-not successful team). All of these players had elite size and the ability to make spectacular catches downfield even when being heavily covered.

 

Sammy has good size and speed, not elite. He's a great route runner with great hands but not elite after the catch. He seems to play his best and stay healthy when he's playing to get drafted or possibly in a contract year like in 2017. It was a reach to draft him at 4 and that's probably one of the major reasons Marrone did what he did and now Whaley has lost his job.

 

He's a good player but not a franchise corner stone. Matthews will be productive and a few years from now, people will be very pleased with these trades.

 

This is complete revisionist history. Sammy was considered consensus top 5 pick in the 2014 draft and one of the cleanest and lowest risk prospects.

[GunnerBill]

Sammy is a good player but a franchise corner stone?

 

Receivers that I can think of that have been franchise corner stones in recent years would be Julio Jones, AJ Green, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, (Calvin Johnson-not successful team). All of these players had elite size and the ability to make spectacular catches downfield even when being heavily covered.

 

AB. Crazy how little respect he gets because he is only 5'10. He has 4 seasons in a row of over 1,200 yards and 3 seasons in a row of double digit touchdowns. He is absolutely a cornerstone of the Steelers.

[26CornerBlitz]

AB. Crazy how little respect he gets because he is only 5'10. He has 4 seasons in a row of over 1,200 yards and 3 seasons in a row of double digit touchdowns. He is absolutely a cornerstone of the Steelers.

 

What a dynamic player he is. He and Bell along with Big Ben make a great trio.

[sjjr]

Brown is elite after the catch and has a chip on his shoulder. He's a much better player than Sammy Watkins. With that said, the franchise cornerstone there is still Big Ben.

 

I think there were a lot of people at the time questioning the selection by the Bills when they drafted Watkins at 4 after trading up.

[HappyDays]

Sammy is a good player but a franchise corner stone?

 

Receivers that I can think of that have been franchise corner stones in recent years would be Julio Jones, AJ Green, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, (Calvin Johnson-not successful team). All of these players had elite size and the ability to make spectacular catches downfield even when being heavily covered.

 

Sammy has good size and speed, not elite. He's a great route runner with great hands but not elite after the catch. He seems to play his best and stay healthy when he's playing to get drafted or possibly in a contract year like in 2017. It was a reach to draft him at 4 and that's probably one of the major reasons Marrone did what he did and now Whaley has lost his job.

 

He's a good player but not a franchise corner stone. Matthews will be productive and a few years from now, people will be very pleased with these trades.

Agree with all of this, good post. Watkins never makes contested catches. He has generally good hands and obviously very fast, great ball tracking skills too. But he's not the one you can count on to make the big catch with a CB in the air with him. He isn't physical like the truly elite receivers are.

[26CornerBlitz]

Agree with all of this, good post. Watkins never makes contested catches. He has generally good hands and obviously very fast, great ball tracking skills too. But he's not the one you can count on to make the big catch with a CB in the air with him. He isn't physical like the truly elite receivers are.

 

That Antonio Brown is a brute!

 

A nice little Sammy reel just for you:

 

http://youtu.be/wzrwEpKYHWk

[Doc]

Watkins should've been a franchise corner stone. Matthews and Gaines aren't that.

"Should've been" are the key words. He hasn't been, because of injuries.

[3rdand12]

Abso-damn-lutely.

 

The Bills lost two capable players and brought in two capable players.....all the while adding draft picks.

 

Out !@#$ing standing, Pyle!

lol'd

yeesiree Sergeant !

I cannot complete the exercise. I need more time Proctor !

[GunnerBill]

Agree with all of this, good post. Watkins never makes contested catches. He has generally good hands and obviously very fast, great ball tracking skills too. But he's not the one you can count on to make the big catch with a CB in the air with him. He isn't physical like the truly elite receivers are.

 

He doesn't make many contested catches but he has truly elite separation skills. AB is similar in that regard. I wouldn't swap Brown for any receiver in the league. I have Julio as #1 but Brown is a strong #1a for me and this obsession with "size" obscures the single most important question. Can he play? AB and Sammy beat people in different ways to the 6'3 and taller group. Sammy isn't in AB's class yet but that is the type of receiver I think you have to look for him to be.... he is never going to be Julio Jones or AJ Green - his game is different.

[ALF]

Brandon Beane kept news of Sammy Watkins deal from Sean McDermott

Undoubtedly, the two Bills decision makers have had plenty of discussions this summer surrounding the possibility of trading Watkins. So, sure, McDermott didn’t know the timing of when a deal would go down, but he certainly must of have known that it could happen at some point, and perhaps game planned accordingly.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/8/16/16143096/brandon-beane-sammy-watkins-sean-mcdermott-trade-los-angeles-rams

Edited August 16, 2017 by ALF

[Doc]

Notice the word "apparently" in the above article. And I doubt the first four plays going to Sammy was a coincidence.

[YoloinOhio]

Shocked at the results of this poll.

Edited August 17, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Doc]

Shocked at the results of this poll.

It shouldn't be that surprising if you look at their production last year and the performance of the respective units. Not to mention once you realize that a lot of what people are going on is the hope that Sammy will be able to stay healthy and produce like a top talent in a run heavy offense, making huge dollars (if they re-sign or franchise him) and that Darby will somehow become good again, much less in a system for which he's not suited.

[Reed83HOF]

It shouldn't be surprising considering most liked the Jason Peters trade.

 

And the Lynch trade....

 

mind-boggling

[Doc]

It shouldn't be surprising considering most liked the Jason Peters trade.

 

And the Lynch trade....

People also liked the decision to let Byrd and Levitre walk.

[Boatdrinks]

It shouldn't be surprising considering most liked the Jason Peters trade.

And the Lynch trade....

Playa hate run deep ....

[BringBackOrton]

It shouldn't be surprising considering most liked the Jason Peters trade.

 

And the Lynch trade....

I mean, when you look at the production and what they wanted to get paid...

[Eric Moulds on my A**]

People also liked the decision to let Byrd and Levitre walk.

Yep, Byrd F'd the Saints bad

[Agent 91]

Yes. The Watkins deal was particularly good. The team was moving on from him after this season and he didn't want to stay here. We got what will almost certainly be a very high 2nd round pick and a CB who showed real potential in 2014 prior to injury in return. That's stealing.

How do you know he didn't want to be here? Where did third logic come from. Could be true but why are so many peolle sure of this after he was TRADED? Beane said they never gauged wht he wanted.

[Agent 91]

He even admitted, in the Pc, that they weren't shopping him but the Rams had enquiries back in June. Things finally ramped up.

 

So Beane honestly thinks the best value he could get from Sammy was a 2nd round pick?

i just listened to an insider from Philly and THEIR GM said they werent shopping Matthews. Someone is lying