Alphadawg7 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Sounds like lots of organizations go by what they don't know about a player. That was my exact point...so I assume you agreed with me then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 It's secretly a Da'Rick post I've never seen Da'Rick misspelled on this board. Ever. Like the apostrophe increased the concentration or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 We should have drafted everyone that turned out good that went before or behind us, duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 The Bills had him on their board. They undervalued him. Don't cherry pick, read the whole statement. Year after year, QB after QB and what do we have to show for it? You didn't answer my question. Every team passed on him for 3+ rounds until Jerruh took a flyer. You can't say it was obvious how good he'd be because why did the Rams draft Goff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 And give them time to develop. Question, how many teams passed on Dak Prescott? The Dallas Cowboys passed on Dak Prescott three times. It's a f***ing crapshoot. Always has been, always will be. Yet Biff from Tonawanda will always insist that there's a magic formula to knowing who's gonna be a good pro. There isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) Can we stop this crazy hindsight narrative stuff plaguing the board all the time about who we could have drafted? If anyone thought Carr was going to be this good do you think he would have been available in the 2nd round still? nope...so 32 teams made the same mistake. How about Dalton? Anyone think he lasts to the 2nd round if they knew? Nope. What about Brady? Does he last to the 6th round? Nope. How about Kurt Warner...think he still goes undrafted if they could do it over again? Nope. How about Wilson? Any chance he lasts to the third round again? Nope. So enough with the would have, should have stuff already. On draft night, he wasn't a sure thing by any means and had plenty of question marks. We also had a terrible OL that needed help. You go on what you KNOW about a player, not what you don't know and only the future does because we don't have Oracles or Time Machines. Haha, it's almost like there were other failure QB's in those years that everyone forgets about. For every Dalton, and Carr there are a bunch of Gabbert, Tannehill, Osweiler, Weeden's. The Dak Prescott stuff amuses me because didn't Jerry Jones have his sights dead set on Paxton Lynch? And he lucks out with Prescott? Edited November 1, 2016 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) The debate about Carr has been going on on this board since he was a rookie. C. Biscuit was a big critic, and I challenged him because in the second half of his rookie season, Carr looked like he was putting it together to me. This really was a hot topic after the Raiders beat the Bills in late 2014. I remain convinced that Carr was by all measures a first round talent whose drop can be attributed pretty much SOLELY to the fact that his brother was a bust and went to the same school as him. I firmly believe that this shaped opinion prior to the draft. It's similar to Brady: for decades people thought that U of M qbs were destined to be NFL busts -- until they weren't. Brady was objectively excellent in college yet dropped for whatever reason. Drew Henson was a reason, but prejudice against michigan qbs likely played a role too. A lot of these guys who are running drafts fall prey to the same silly prejudices as message board folks like us do. Edited November 1, 2016 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 The Dallas Cowboys passed on Dak Prescott three times. It's a f***ing crapshoot. Always has been, always will be. Yet Biff from Tonawanda will always insist that there's a magic formula to knowing who's gonna be a good pro. There isn't. Your odds improve the earlier you draft a QB, that fact is undeniable. You can't get gunshy just because you whiffed on a 1st rounder. Allow me to preemptively address some of our more hyperbolic posters -- no, this doesn't imply 1st round QBs are a lock and no, this doesn't mean draft a QB in the 1st round every year, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) Your odds improve the earlier you draft a QB, that fact is undeniable. You can't get gunshy just because you whiffed on a 1st rounder. Allow me to preemptively address some of our more hyperbolic posters -- no, this doesn't imply 1st round QBs are a lock and no, this doesn't mean draft a QB in the 1st round every year, Of course. But to suggest that one team is genius for taking a guy in the fourth round and another team is stupid for taking a guy in the first round that doesn't pan out is where I take issue. I think we're on the same page. I spent most of the summer of 2015 trying to insist to a handful of whackos on here (who evidently still exist) that the EJ Manuel ship had sailed. Yet I liked the pick at the time. Big kid, tons of natural ability. Never held it against the Bills. Because, again, I understand that it's a crapshoot. Edited November 1, 2016 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Sounds like lots of organizations go by what they don't know about a player. If they knew more, none of those guys you list would have gone where they did. A better question: what team watches film of EJ Manuel play the position at FSU and thinks he'd make a great NFL pocket passer? Bingo and MORE BINGO! Even more BINGO!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Besides that, what team gives up on a 1st round QB after a year? There's a very good reason it rarely happens. The team would be regarded as a laughing stock. They aren't already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 What you say is true, but, it has nothing to do with this topic. This team has missed on umpteen QBs and it sucks. Until the powers that be begin to understand that they are undervaluing the position, or just plain missing on player after player, nothing will change. Maybe we haven't been good at maximizing the potential of the guys we get. You think Carr would have shined with hackett/marronne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I hate to be that guy, but Derrick Carr? 1. I've never heard of a guy named Derek going with that spelling in my entire life- why assume such a radical outlier of a spelling? 2. And why not like a quick google search? You obviously put some thought into your post, why not just double check to make sure he doesn't, in fact, spell his name like every other white guy ever named Derek? And the irony is that you spelled every other QB's name right. I know why you hate to be that guy...grammer and spel sheck poleese suk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Maybe we haven't been good at maximizing the potential of the guys we get. You think Carr would have shined with hackett/marronne? You are asking the wrong question. The right question is would he be better than what we already have? The answer is an overwhelming yes. EJ's limitations have little to do with who is coaching him and more to do with his inherent limitations as a player. The Bills could have moved down in the first round and still have acquired Carr. We didn't. Maybe it is that type of conventional and cautious organizational thinking that has kept this backwater franchise stuck in the muck of mediocrity for more than a generation. Until the qb position is secured this franchise will not stand a chance to be a serious team. That is a fact for the Bills as it is for every team. Sometimes you get lucky and more often you don't. If you want to increase your chances of success at solidifying the most important position in the game you have to aggressively continue the pursuit until you find the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Its always easy to find great players in the draft when you can go back in time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Maybe we haven't been good at maximizing the potential of the guys we get. You think Carr would have shined with hackett/marronne? Carr shined with a HC fired week 4 and Tony Sparano, so yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I had Carr exactly where he was taken in 2014 - a top end of the 2nd round QB who might sneak into the first if someone traded back in for him. I also had Teddy where he was - a back end of the first Quarterback. I didn't think Bortles was a top 10 player necessarily but if I was taking a QB in the first that year he would have been my guy. At the moment that isn't looking a great call but I still have some hope for him (although he now has Nate Hackett calling his plays...... :~). Oh and I had a 4th round grade on Manziel which I took some serious stick for on here at the time..... turns out I was wrong.... with the character questions and the game that doesn't translate I should have had a UDFA grade on him. No question of the 4 careers so far Carr has been the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I liked Carr. Also his progression is where I wanted Tyrods, to go along the same path, just hasnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dulles Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 This is a ridiculous thread. What GM would spend two first rounders on QBs in back to back years? I like Derek Carr, but there is no way in hell I would have drafted him that year. Even if he fell to us in the second. It's just not smart to spend two high round picks on QBs with the amount of holes we had on our team at the time. I think this thread reinforces the fact that Brandon pushed hard for a shot at a Franchise QB in his last draft. Whaley bears much responsibility because he was heavily involved in that draft - reaching for EJ in the first. Russ also has to take some responsibility as I'm sure he was excited about selling tickets with a new QB on the roster. All in all, the move demonstrates the fallout from reaching for 2nd round talent in the 1st. It ties your hands for several drafts. IF the Bills had grabbed EJ in the 2nd, I doubt anyone would ring their hands about the failed attempt. First rounds are just too valuable. On the other hand, spending multiple 2nd and 3rd day picks on QB does not hurt you as much. If you swing and miss on a 3rd rounder, he can still stick around as a cheap backup for a few years. You also don't mind grabbing another guy in the next draft because less value has been written off. You don't have ownership, fans, and front office doubling down on a faulty faith in a broken prospect (see EJ among a litany of other 1st round busts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I had such high hopes for this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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