Bills Staying in Orchard Park? Buying Up Land Around...

[KellyToTasker]

Land bought for purpose A and later used for purpose B.

[Hammered a Lot]

 

LOL

 

Grass has gotta grow man...

Oh Grass Hopper you have so much to learn.

The land they purchased is what some of us tailgaters affectionately call the "Mud Lot". Been going there for years. Now I have to find a new place.....damn.

No you don't. The Mud Lot owners only sold a portion of the property. Plenty of Mud for You!

[papazoid]

Oh Grass Hopper you have so much to learn.

No you don't. The Mud Lot owners only sold a portion of the property. Plenty of Mud for You!

 

if you count the wooded area, that lot looks the size of 3 - 4 football fields.

 

kinda surprised ralph or erie county didn't buy that long ago.

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/bills-news-notes/2016/5/5/11595804/buffalo-bills-building-new-practice-field-adjacent-ralph-wilson-stadium

Edited May 6, 2016 by papazoid

[RalphOP83]

People I know who work in the natural gas industry have told me that the general public is only aware of about 1/2 of pegulas holdings/net worth... He could make another sale any time, similar to the one made when he bought the team.

[The Wiz]

 

if you count the wooded area, that lot looks the size of 3 - 4 football fields.

 

kinda surprised ralph or erie county didn't buy that long ago.

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/bills-news-notes/2016/5/5/11595804/buffalo-bills-building-new-practice-field-adjacent-ralph-wilson-stadium

Ralph is cheap.

[ChevyVanMiller]

I'm having déjà vu all over again.

[sodbuster]

 

if you count the wooded area, that lot looks the size of 3 - 4 football fields.

 

kinda surprised ralph or erie county didn't buy that long ago.

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/bills-news-notes/2016/5/5/11595804/buffalo-bills-building-new-practice-field-adjacent-ralph-wilson-stadium

3-4 fields? I dare say that would be enough to run training camp.

[Kirby Jackson]

3-4 fields? I dare say that would be enough to run training camp.

I'd be surprised if the Bills left SJF. It is too important to their regionalization efforts. They want to have a presence in Rochester.

[Hammered a Lot]

 

if you count the wooded area, that lot looks the size of 3 - 4 football fields.

 

kinda surprised ralph or erie county didn't buy that long ago.

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/bills-news-notes/2016/5/5/11595804/buffalo-bills-building-new-practice-field-adjacent-ralph-wilson-stadium

The Mud Lot could have been bought for $150,000 roughly 30 years ago. I tried to get two former Bills to buy it at that time but they already invested in other commercial properties. The Pegulas paid $275,000 for 3 acres of the Mud Lot. (At that ppf. I would have sold the whole lot now.) According to survey markers it looks like land will be bought from the a joining property also. As I stated all the land will become part of the stadium complex property tax free zone. I don't think the county had any interest in buying, the Bills I think wanted to buy some/all of the land but Mrs Barco had other things to worry about, her failing health and had no interest in selling.

People I know who work in the natural gas industry have told me that the general public is only aware of about 1/2 of pegulas holdings/net worth... He could make another sale any time, similar to the one made when he bought the team.

Gas is low, he ain't selling now. I hope his current businesses make him $$$. You know how fast one can plow through a billion dollars!

I'd be surprised if the Bills left SJF. It is too important to their regionalization efforts. They want to have a presence in Rochester.

I don't see them moving from SJF. I have never been there but didn't the Bills recently spend $$ there upgrading the training camp experience?

[boater]

People I know who work in the natural gas industry have told me that the general public is only aware of about 1/2 of pegulas holdings/net worth... He could make another sale any time, similar to the one made when he bought the team.

Let me correct to internet gossip norms.

 

People I know who work in the natural gas industry have told me Sources tell me that the general public is only aware of about 1/2 of pegulas holdings/net worth... He could make another sale any time, similar to the one made when he bought the team.

[Heitz]

Oh Grass Hopper you have so much to learn.

 

And to that I say

[3rdand12]

just a thought bubble but the outdoor stadium complex and training facility is not exactly a place to have multiple events, except for concerts.

doomed?

I think i went to some concerts there many years ago. it was okay.

I'm guessing there is a reason pegula is investing in the area w practice fields etc and upgrades. That we will be in OP 10+ yrs. That the option to do a retractable downtown isn't that possible. And as such, the value it would add to uptown can't be that much. Having a building take up that much space downtown, needing the infrastructure it would need is a massive undertaking. Keeping the game 20 minutes away and improving the downtown of Buffalo would help create a place for after the game. Perhaps, soon transportation to get to OP from downtown will be likely. Chill in Buffalo until 1130-1145 hop on train. Head to OP. Get there by 1210. Go in game?

I think this is genuis. dedicated tram to and from OP from Downtown. like the Olde Rochester Railway / Trolley.

Create seamless routing to hotel districts, restaurants, entertainment and then to the local and state bus lines, the airport and harbor of course.

Just make the travel portion much more attractive than a city bus line .

The Mud Lot could have been bought for $150,000 roughly 30 years ago. I tried to get two former Bills to buy it at that time but they already invested in other commercial properties. The Pegulas paid $275,000 for 3 acres of the Mud Lot. (At that ppf. I would have sold the whole lot now.) According to survey markers it looks like land will be bought from the a joining property also. As I stated all the land will become part of the stadium complex property tax free zone. I don't think the county had any interest in buying, the Bills I think wanted to buy some/all of the land but Mrs Barco had other things to worry about, her failing health and had no interest in selling.

Gas is low, he ain't selling now. I hope his current businesses make him $$$. You know how fast one can plow through a billion dollars!

I don't see them moving from SJF. I have never been there but didn't the Bills recently spend $$ there upgrading the training camp experience?

SJF Camp IS a big deal to us in the Rochester area. i think it has great support here.

[KellyToTasker]

I was fortunate enough to visit the SJF training camp last year (the first time for me since the Fredonia days as a kid). It was a great set up. I do think it was very much more "commercialized" than it was 20 years ago. I don't think this was a result of SJF, but more by way of what the NFL has become.

 

I have fond memories of waiting for hours (patiently) on the Bills 90's players to depart the Fredonia facilities and acquire a coveted autograph.....And there were some good ones (Kelly, Reed, Levy, Bruce, etc.).

 

This past year was my son's first trip to training camp. There was not as much access to the players, we weren't allowed to stick around, and it felt like a very controlled environment.

 

I get it, it's how things are now. That said, my sons were smiling and had a GREAT time. They were able to meet our Wide Receivers (including Sammy) and forged a lifelong memory. Hopefully, they are now Bills fans for life! I couldn't ask for anything more! That's all I wanted from that day (seeing that we traveled from multiple states away).

[jimmy10]

They'll have to take training camp out of Rochester from my cold, dead hands.

[Punching Bag]

 

There's always a million reasons to not do something (classic Buffalo thinking), but you havent mentioned anything that can't be addressed and improved.

 

 

Yes there are a million reasons to NOT stay in Orchard Park (Buffalo politicians, NFL owners pressure, snobs who want new smaller stadium, etc) but we will keep telling how it is that the best path is following the Green Bay model and update the stadium.

 

Hammer's Lot TWO - a 25 story, state-of-the-art, parking garage / tailgate zone!?

 

 

 

Per Bart Scott, "CAN'T WAIT!"

 

 

What??? I remember a satistic about safety in neighborhoods around NFL stadiums. Foxboro #1, Ralph #2 What do they have in common, not a city stadium. I know people who went to the Jets vs Bills game in Detriot, never again will they go to D town. Future stadium location or rehab Ralph, its out of our control. Who knows in 7 years we all might be watching the games at home via virtual reality glasses!

I don't think I can build that high in OP. Something to do with flight path of the crows and seagulls who scavage the stadium lots for days after the games!

 

Who says that parking garage is above ground? It is probably below ground with land over it used for tailgating!

[Just Jack]

Gas is low, he ain't selling now. I hope his current businesses make him $$$. You know how fast one can plow through a billion dollars!

Especially if you are buying sports teams every couple of years.

[Hammered a Lot]

Especially if you are buying sports teams every couple of years.

Buffalo Bisons Baseball next?

[RalphOP83]

The Mud Lot could have been bought for $150,000 roughly 30 years ago. I tried to get two former Bills to buy it at that time but they already invested in other commercial properties. The Pegulas paid $275,000 for 3 acres of the Mud Lot. (At that ppf. I would have sold the whole lot now.) According to survey markers it looks like land will be bought from the a joining property also. As I stated all the land will become part of the stadium complex property tax free zone. I don't think the county had any interest in buying, the Bills I think wanted to buy some/all of the land but Mrs Barco had other things to worry about, her failing health and had no interest in selling.

Gas is low, he ain't selling now. I hope his current businesses make him $$$. You know how fast one can plow through a billion dollars!

I don't see them moving from SJF. I have never been there but didn't the Bills recently spend $$ there upgrading the training camp experience?

He sold some gas rights for $1.75 billion prior to buying the Bills. His net worth was pegged at nearly $4Billion prior to that sale. Essentially the sale he made while bidding on the Bills was enough to buy the Bills and Sabres in cash, with nearly enough leftover to build harborcenter.

 

NFL teams make $$ hand over fist. The Sabres also do pretty well.

 

My point was that prior to that sale everyone thought he'd be dipping into his $4 Billion fortune, then out of nowhere he came up with a fresh $1.75 Bil cash.

[May Day 10]

Buffalo Bisons Baseball next?

 

Ideally, the #1 sport that helps a downtown proper is MLB. It has been a lifelong dream of mine for Buffalo to land an MLB team. That many people downtown 81+ dates a year. Terrific. Also fits into the 'empty void' left by no Bills/Sabres from April - September.... They couldnt do any worse attendance-wise than a few franchises including Cleveland (who Im a fan of).

 

With that said, MLB might have little interest in Buffalo. Probably couldn't support a team long term and the balance sheet would be awful if they even attempted to compete. I do see a ton of upcoming housing/loft options becoming available downtown. Maybe someday it will be feasible.

[KellyToTasker]

 

Ideally, the #1 sport that helps a downtown proper is MLB. It has been a lifelong dream of mine for Buffalo to land an MLB team. That many people downtown 81+ dates a year. Terrific. Also fits into the 'empty void' left by no Bills/Sabres from April - September.... They couldnt do any worse attendance-wise than a few franchises including Cleveland (who Im a fan of).

 

With that said, MLB might have little interest in Buffalo. Probably couldn't support a team long term and the balance sheet would be awful if they even attempted to compete. I do see a ton of upcoming housing/loft options becoming available downtown. Maybe someday it will be feasible.

Didn't they make a push in the 90's for MLB? Triple A standards, the Bison's park is nice! Even better in comparison 20 plus years ago. I'd be an instant fan if the Bisons became an MLB club.....I just don't think it'll ever happen.

[nucci]

Didn't they make a push in the 90's for MLB? Triple A standards, the Bison's park is nice! Even better in comparison 20 plus years ago. I'd be an instant fan if the Bisons became an MLB club.....I just don't think it'll ever happen.

Bob Rich had a blank check for a Major League team. The problem was filling it out and signing it....and turning it in

Edited May 9, 2016 by nucci

[May Day 10]

What I think happened was the MLB Expansion fees were given and Rich got sticker shock and the push for MLB faded.... Miami and Colorado got the teams. I believe it was between Buffalo, DC, and Denver for 1 team (while Tampa, Miami, and Orlando were vying for a guaranteed Florida team). Made it past a pretty significant cut too of Sacromento, nashville, New Orleans, Phoenix, Charlotte (may be missing one or 2).

 

The Bisons were drawing insane numbers those years. It was really cool.

 

In the long run, that is about the point that MLB salaries (and all sports) took off. MLB is the last holdout of capped leagues. The team would have likely been relocated already.

 

 

The Ballpark now, believe it or not, is one of the oldest in AAA baseball! (feeling of oldness)

 

 

 

 

Nowadays, there really aren't many good markets vying for eventual expansion. I know Charlotte and Montreal seem pretty motivated. The economics of both WNY and MLB will need to change before Buffalo would be considered. Count me in for seasons though, as well as attending 50-60 games. I will always hope for an MLB team. Would be a great institution downtown. Too bad there is no way to gracefully build a multipurpose stadium for MLB and NFL.

 

I would loveit if MLB had a huge strike/lockout and the whole thing crumbled and they went to a relegation/promotion system throughout MLB and the minors.

Edited May 9, 2016 by May Day 10

[jimmy10]

Also, wasn't Pilot Field (or whatever the hell it's called now) originally built with expansion into an MLB-sized stadium in mind?

[May Day 10]

Yes, the design was basically a pop-top roof to add a larger 3rd deck. Also I believe there would have been seats added in right field.

 

 

edit: 41,000 seats

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1990-11-25/sports/9011250060_1_pilot-field-city-of-buffalo-erie-county

 

http://www.citylab.com/work/2012/07/they-built-it-mlb-never-came/2509/

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-02-15/sports/sp-1061_1_fact-major-league-baseball

Edited May 9, 2016 by May Day 10

[bbb]

Early 90s Pilot Field was the place to be! That was great. Of course, it was in anticipation of the coming MLB team.

 

Count me in for seasons for an MLB team, also.

[Punching Bag]

 

Nowadays, there really aren't many good markets vying for eventual expansion. I know Charlotte and Montreal seem pretty motivated. The economics of both WNY and MLB will need to change before Buffalo would be considered. Count me in for seasons though, as well as attending 50-60 games. I will always hope for an MLB team. Would be a great institution downtown. Too bad there is no way to gracefully build a multipurpose stadium for MLB and NFL.

 

I know a retired architect who asked to design a combination NFL/MLB stadium; he did the workup on it for customer (not full design, just concept) and paid for it but later he was told they did not get the contract. He occasionally shows it which included such things as "partial glass open dome to allow natural light", "rolling seat sections" and "detachable moving camera towers'. It was designed so it could go from baseball to football or back in 48 hours if necessary for baseball playoffs which overlapped with football season. Beautiful concept for a natural grass stadium although entire field was not all grass.

[May Day 10]

thats interesting.... the 'rolling seat sections' are key.

 

The problem is, to fit both sports, you have the seats too far back for spots for football.... and for baseball you end up with a ton of foul territory (and often a temporary wall in left field). The circular multis of the 60s-70s were awful (Vets, 3 Rivers, Riverfront) and that design will never come back.

 

I would be very interested to see an architect's plan for a 2015 version of a feasible multi-use stadium that provides good sightlines and aesthetics for each sport.

[Punching Bag]

I am not an architect but that was one of the key parts of the plan. He actually had specifications are part of slides with engineering notes on weight, tolerance and replacement times, I found the glass curved partial dome walls more interesting to allow light but not completely closed. The stadium design was definitely not "normal" since areas behind benches were not straight but more rhombus shaped.with more distance behind the bench at 50 yard line than at 10 yard line. Some of it was grass and some was turf with the rolling sections all going down tracks in turf area,

[Hammered a Lot]

3-4 fields? I dare say that would be enough to run training camp.

Russ on WGR yesterday said 1 perhaps 2 fields. The grass practice field they now use is 170 yards long.

[Heitz]

Russ on WGR yesterday said 1 perhaps 2 fields. The grass practice field they now use is 170 yards long.

 

For the baseball team these guys ^^^^ are talking about?

 

Also, did Russ confirm that they're going to remove the Bills logo on the ADPRO Sports Training Center and replace it with a giant Rolling Stones logo?

Edited May 12, 2016 by Heitz

[Hammered a Lot]

People I know who work in the natural gas industry have told me that the general public is only aware of about 1/2 of pegulas holdings/net worth... He could make another sale any time, similar to the one made when he bought the team.

I'm hearing $7-10 Billion from a very reliable source. And on a side note work has started on the new practice field.

[eball]

I'm hearing $7-10 Billion from a very reliable source. And on a side note work has started on the new practice field.

 

But by all means, Pegula's pissed at Whaley for losing the services of Shaq Lawson for the first 1/4 of the season. Wasting money!

[aristocrat]

I'm hearing $7-10 Billion from a very reliable source. And on a side note work has started on the new practice field.

 

The numbers forbes have just don't make sense. They don't take into account any profit and investments he made previous to the sale of his company or any increase in wealth since the sale. I've always thought he's in the 10 bil range or so.

[Captain_Quint]

 

But by all means, Pegula's pissed at Whaley for losing the services of Shaq Lawson for the first 1/4 of the season. Wasting money!

Rumor has it that Pegula has consulted with the Shah himself, and recovery time is more like 3-4 months. Something stinks in the front office at OBD, and for the first time in a long time, we cant blame it on Ralph!

[Punching Bag]

What surprises me is they have not put a new hospital on land they bought for the hundreds of players on injured reserve and PUP lists.