John from Riverside Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I am against any trade that would have taken us completely out of the first round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Unbelievable......cant believe there is someone actually trashing this 1st round pick  "Trashing"? Holy crap some of you people are sensitive. I don't like the pick, I would've made the trade. I'm not a fan of Shaq Lawson at 19, or anywhere really - I don't love the player. He's a great leader and had a productive college career but he's not athletic enough for my liking and I think he's fairly scheme-specific. If Rex Ryan is sent packing next offseason and a 4-3 coordinator replaces him, I don't see much fit for Lawson. And even with Ryan's defense in place, I wouldn't spend the 19th pick on an edge-setter who is not an elite athlete or pass rusher. I'm really sorry that offends you so much. I'm certainly willing to be wrong... are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Has anyone put the value chart to this proposed trade? Would be interesting to see (I'll look into it later - kinda TBD'ing between that other pesky Monday thing - work ) Â Yes - Â Lawson = 900 pts Dallas Offer = 815 points - difference of a top 10 4th pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â "Trashing"? Holy crap some of you people are sensitive. I don't like the pick, I would've made the trade. I'm not a fan of Shaq Lawson at 19, or anywhere really - I don't love the player. He's a great leader and had a productive college career but he's not athletic enough for my liking and I think he's fairly scheme-specific. If Rex Ryan is sent packing next offseason and a 4-3 coordinator replaces him, I don't see much fit for Lawson. And even with Ryan's defense in place, I wouldn't spend the 19th pick on an edge-setter who is not an elite athlete or pass rusher. I'm really sorry that offends you so much. I'm certainly willing to be wrong... are you? Â Your crack about him being friends with Rex's son could/was interpreted as trashing the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 What I liked about this draft is that Whaley didn't over-think it. He took players at where they were ranked and got a pleasant surprise when Ragland was still on the board in the second round. The Bills are not in a position such as the Browns are in where they are in a full rebuild mode that calls for maneuvering to get more picks. This wasn't a brilliant draft---it was a sound draft. It was a mature way of doing business and it was a good way of doing business. What is there to complain about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 If i'm leaving the first i want an extra for next year. If that isn't part of the offer - I'm out. Â I wouldn't do a trade because the "value chart" says its equal. I want to know that i won the trade value wise, and you need to know you got the guy you needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â I agree. But he's an edge setter, which Rex definitely needs. I just don't know if that position justifies a premium draft pick. From my standpoint, Shaq Lawson - the athlete he is and the position he plays - is something you can find in rounds 2-4. He's a non-elite athlete at a non-premium position. Â With all due respect. I gotta say. If that's what you think about Shaq then you have not watched him enough... Â Go to Draftbreakdown. Hit the the play button. He led College Football in TTFL. 12.5 sacks and just on the 6 or so games I've watched (every down 3 times now) he was a hair away from 10 more. And no need to get too concerned with the flashy stats. Shaq is a smart, disciplined football player. He understands his role and position. He does the right thing. Watch him when an OG pulls his way. He does his job and gives up his body to blow running plays up. His eyes are always in the right place. And he plays to the whistle. He's the opposite of lazy. He played hurt. He's a great kid... Â No way could you get that later in this Draft. And even if you could that player, whoever he is, did not show that kind of ability against top competition in College football last year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016  Yes -  Lawson = 900 pts Dallas Offer = 815 points - difference of a top 10 4th pick  Yeah, sorry, coming in short on value in the middle of the draft while trying to get your QB of the future just isnt going to get it done. Dallas needed to be over value in their offer by 85 points, not 85 short.  Why should the Bills lose out and do any other team a favor there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Also, I can only imagine the rush-to-outrage if the 8-8 Bills went two straight years without a first round pick. Â At this point I could do the spinning for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaNole3 Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â "Trashing"? Holy crap some of you people are sensitive. I don't like the pick, I would've made the trade. I'm not a fan of Shaq Lawson at 19, or anywhere really - I don't love the player. He's a great leader and had a productive college career but he's not athletic enough for my liking and I think he's fairly scheme-specific. If Rex Ryan is sent packing next offseason and a 4-3 coordinator replaces him, I don't see much fit for Lawson. And even with Ryan's defense in place, I wouldn't spend the 19th pick on an edge-setter who is not an elite athlete or pass rusher. I'm really sorry that offends you so much. I'm certainly willing to be wrong... are you? So by your analysis, you were a fan of the Maybin selection. Maybin was an elite athlete and a pass rusher but not an edge-setter. Ok, got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Has anyone put the value chart to this proposed trade? Would be interesting to see (I'll look into it later - kinda TBD'ing between that other pesky Monday thing - work ) I did. It was light. Â Pick 19: 875 Â Pick 34: 560 Pick 67: 255 Total: 815 Â Could have asked for 101 which is valued at 96 points, but I'd have been looking for a premium with Lawson and Doctson on the board. I like Whaley's counter. If Jerry was serious he'd have at least negotiated. Â http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=Dal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â Your crack about him being friends with Rex's son could/was interpreted as trashing the pick. Â I am very concerned that the Clemson connection swayed the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Someone already mentioned the JP Losman trade, and that's the first thing I thought of as well. Especially since we are once again dealing with Dallas. Â In 2004, we got Dallas's #22 overall. It cost us our 2004 2nd and 4th, and 2005 1st. Basically what we demanded of Dallas for the #19 overall. Â Not sure what Jerry was thinking offering anything less. No way the Bills should have done the deal the way it was proposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â I am very concerned that the Clemson connection swayed the pick. Â So what if it did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 So by your analysis, you were a fan of the Maybin selection. Maybin was an elite athlete and a pass rusher but not an edge-setter. Ok, got it. Â Maybin was decidedly NOT an elite athlete. He was a relatively fast straight-line runner with little ability to bend and with no agility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â I am very concerned that the Clemson connection swayed the pick. Â lol, this is some crazy worrying. It wasnt up to Rex. The Bills stuck to their board, which Whaley and the scouts put together. Rex, his son, and Clemson had nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â lol, this is some crazy worrying. It wasnt up to Rex. The Bills stuck to their board, which Whaley and the scouts put together. Rex, his son, and Clemson had nothing to do with it. Â Sure it did. It absolutely did. And that's perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â Sure it did. It absolutely did. And that's perfectly fine. Â Maybe it helped that they were extra familiar with him and knew his character well. But Lawson's own talent, and our own scouting, are the reasons he got picked. Dont sell the kid short like nepotism had any real effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â Sure it did. It absolutely did. And that's perfectly fine. Â Not only was it fine...In this specific case I think it was an advantage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â Maybe it helped that they were extra familiar with him and knew his character well. But Lawson's own talent, and our own scouting, are the reasons he got picked. Dont sell the kid short like nepotism had any real effect. Â Totally agree. The player made the pick, not Rex's Clemson connection. But that connection did contribute to the decision, in a positive, advantageous way. Â Â Not only was it fine...In this specific case I think it was an advantage... Â Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â Maybin was decidedly NOT an elite athlete. He was a relatively fast straight-line runner with little ability to bend and with no agility. especially when he tried to pack on weight. Â problem was to be fast he had to be tiny, and to be stout he was slower than others at that size. Â he had a great first step for a DE but have to be at the weight of a SS to have it. id bet plenty of SS have good first steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P51 Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Interesting -  http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/01/nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-war-room-jerry-jones-peter-king  The plan was to offer Dallas’ second-round and third-round picks, 34 and 67 overall, to teams in the late teens and early twenties—Indianapolis, Buffalo, the Jets, Houston—but then swap out the third-rounder for Dallas’ fourth-rounder, 101 overall, starting in the mid-twenties. Cincinnati (24), Pittsburgh (25), Seattle (26), Green Bay (27) and Kansas City (28) all got called. Lukewarm responses, mostly. Buffalo (19) said no to the offer of the second and third. The Jets said no.   I did. It was light.  Pick 19: 875  Pick 34: 560 Pick 67: 255 Total: 815  Could have asked for 101 which is valued at 96 points, but I'd have been looking for a premium with Lawson and Doctson on the board. I like Whaley's counter. If Jerry was serious he'd have at least negotiated.  http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=Dal   Someone already mentioned the JP Losman trade, and that's the first thing I thought of as well. Especially since we are once again dealing with Dallas.  In 2004, we got Dallas's #22 overall. It cost us our 2004 2nd and 4th, and 2005 1st. Basically what we demanded of Dallas for the #19 overall.  Not sure what Jerry was thinking offering anything less. No way the Bills should have done the deal the way it was proposed.  These 3 posts summarize the situation perfectly.  Whaley would be the laughing stock of the league and a moron to have accepted that trade and lose value (period).  The trade should have looked like this: Dallas's 2nd and 4th (or 3rd) in 2016, and their 2017 1st for #19. Signed sealed and delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â Totally agree. The player made the pick, not Rex's Clemson connection. But that connection did contribute to the decision, in a positive, advantageous way. Â Â Exactly. Â Â Right. But somehow, our HC being personally connected to one of the best college programs in the country is wrong and a disadvantage. Â Bills fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â I am very concerned that the Clemson connection swayed the pick. Â Even if it did, it's not as if Clemson has a crappy program. They have accumulated some of the best talent in all of CFB recently, plucking a top player from Clemson isn't a bad thing at all. Â Now, if Rex's son had gone to Williams college and they were funneling DIII prospects here in the first round, you might have a better argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â Â Right. But somehow, our HC being personally connected to one of the best college programs in the country is wrong and a disadvantage. Â Bills fans... Â Ha, yeah. To spin it as a negative is categorically absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1105 Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 The deal wouldn't have been for 2,3 and 2017 1st for 19. It would have been 34 and 2017 1st rounder for 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â So if I get this straight - each draftnik who's invested months into film study & draft preparation ranked Lawson at roughly #15, and his comparisons are to guys who were drafted in the mid 1st round in prior drafts - yet according to your analysis, he's no better than a mid 3rd rounder? Â By that standard he'll have equal contribution & production to Adolphus Washington? Â And by the way - most of the draftniks had left Floyd out of the top ten, but I nailed that one. So sometimes I'm right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â And by the way - most of the draftniks had left Floyd out of the top ten, but I nailed that one. So sometimes I'm right... Â Most, sure. But no one had Shaq falling out of round one. Not one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Ok Coach, lets get this over with before it becomes a whole thing. Pretend the Bills make the trade with the Cowboys. Lets assume the Vikes take Shaq, and Treadwell has torn an achilles and can never play football again, and everything else went down the way it went down (even though it's unrealistic). Who are these FOUR PLAYERS you are picking up that are available when we use those picks? Â No reply huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Some people talk about taking 2017 picks as compensation. If you believe that Whaley and Rex's jobs are on the line in 2016, why would they take 2017 picks? So the next guy can say thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 So glad the Bills didn't trade out of round one. Shaq is worth way more than that trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Some people talk about taking 2017 picks as compensation. If you believe that Whaley and Rex's jobs are on the line in 2016, why would they take 2017 picks? So the next guy can say thank you very much as that is exactly what they asked for it seems that whaley IS doing his job in the best interest of the team long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I'm glad some of you aren't the GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I'm glad Coach Tuesday isn't the GM Â Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â I agree. But he's an edge setter, which Rex definitely needs. I just don't know if that position justifies a premium draft pick. From my standpoint, Shaq Lawson - the athlete he is and the position he plays - is something you can find in rounds 2-4. He's a non-elite athlete at a non-premium position. Â I think you are wrong. Not just a bit wrong, a lot wrong. If you are right I will hold my hands up and admit it. However, I am sure you are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â I think you are wrong. Not just a bit wrong, a lot wrong. If you are right I will hold my hands up and admit it. However, I am sure you are not. Â Alright. Likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I think Dallas will go very deep in the playoffs, so that 1st rounder would be in the high 20s at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Nah, that would have been a rip off trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 The deal wouldn't have been for 2,3 and 2017 1st for 19. It would have been 34 and 2017 1st rounder for 19 Not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Â And by the way - most of the draftniks had left Floyd out of the top ten, but I nailed that one. So sometimes I'm right... Â There's as big difference between a projected top 20 player jumping into top 10 and a top 15 player falling out of the first round (which was NOT going to happen with Shaq Lawson). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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