Steve Billieve Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 In my mind you really aren't truly competitive without a franchise QB. Every other position can be addressed in free agency . I think you always draft a QB every year that you don't have a top 12 paid QB on your roster (or a guy you are certain will be a top 12 paid guy). As long as your QB is cheap, you should have no problem "filling holes" in free agency. The only way to seriously upgrade QB is through the draft. It really is impossible to end up with too many good QBs on your roster. All of that is definitely true. However, here we are with no spending money and a promising, cheap, 5th year, QB acquired in free agency. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunderbill Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 All of that is definitely true. However, here we are with no spending money and a promising, cheap, 5th year, QB acquired in free agency. Go figure. I agree, IMO with a legit #2 WR, another decent lineman and maintaining balance this offence could be playoff calibre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Actually, it's beyond pompous to tell me what I'd be saying under any circumstances I'm entirely capable of making an evaluation based upon his play. In fact, if you're basing the evaluation on his record as a starter, then I believe it's flawed. Every lowbrow QB you reference is from over 14 years ago. The NFL is a QB driven league now. The goal is to have a QB with whom you can win a super bowl. The closest guy you can compare to the rag tag crop that you reference in the last 10 years is Flacco, and he was exceptional that postseason. And as I said, if you're comfortable with him after 14 starts, then great. I'm not there yet, and therefore I'm 100% behind drafting another potential franchise guy. LOL. Flawed? Oh I'd love to hear this explanation. Go ahead. You seem to be such an expert. Why aren't you working for the NFL? NFL is a QB driven league? Tyrod is fully capable of improving on those numbers if he gets help. There's no doubt in my mind that we'd be a playoff team if Rex didn't fck up the defense and you wouldn't be btching about Tyrod right now. I get what you're saying though. I guess I was wrong this whole time. Clearly you only need a QB to win the Super Bowl. Running game, o-line, defense doesn't matter. All you need is that one QB to get you over the hump. Dam. We should've gotten rid of Jim Kelly while we had the chance. We would've won a super bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) LOL. Flawed? Oh I'd love to hear this explanation. Go ahead. You seem to be such an expert. Why aren't you working for the NFL? NFL is a QB driven league? Tyrod is fully capable of improving on those numbers if he gets help. There's no doubt in my mind that we'd be a playoff team if Rex didn't fck up the defense and you wouldn't be btching about Tyrod right now. I get what you're saying though. I guess I was wrong this whole time. Clearly you only need a QB to win the Super Bowl. Running game, o-line, defense doesn't matter. All you need is that one QB to get you over the hump. Dam. We should've gotten rid of Jim Kelly while we had the chance. We would've won a super bowl. You obviously don't get what I'm saying or you wouldn't think I'm "bitching" about Tyrod Yes, basing a QB evaluation largely upon his record is flawed. Anyone with a decent skill set can win a few games when in the right situation. Fitz, Foles, McCown, are recent examples. I'm looking for long term stability at the position. Coordinators have a season of tape on Taylor now, and you better believe it'll be tougher next year. The point is quite simple: the best way to proffer long term success is to have a franchise QB. It prevents you from having to be excellent everywhere else to have a shot at winning every year. And yes, there are most certainly talented QBs in this draft. Nobody knows if they'll be the answer either, but the wise thing to do is to hedge the bet on Taylor by drafting one. That's true whether you like it or not. Edited January 14, 2016 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 He's also slight of frame and exposes himself to injury every game. Of course they need to strongly consider drafting a QB. Can we keep this thread to discussing QB prospects please? Appreciate your excellent analyses Bandido! Sorry, you're right. This isn't going anywhere. Also I appreciate the sentiment. Back on topic: who do you like at QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Sorry, you're right. This isn't going anywhere. Also I appreciate the sentiment. Back on topic: who do you like at QB? I'd be prepared to take Goff or Cook if they are still there at #19. I think Goff will be long gone, Cook might still be there. I see all the criticisms of Cook, I hear all the knocks on him and he played a really an up and down game in the Big 10 Championship game. But he still just looks like a possible franchise Quarterback to me. It looks to me like he is capable of going through progressions and I just like the way he throws the football. If I was the GM even if there was a prospect at another position I was really in love with I think I would be severely tempted to turn in the card with Connor Cook's name on it if he is sitting there for me. I wouldn't touch Lynch with a 9 foot barge pole. I haven't seen anything of Wentz really to make a judgment. So that is where I am on the consensus top 4 prospects. I would consider Hogan as I have already said as a mid-late round guy. I would not want Kessler under any circumstances and I don't want Dak Prescott. Hackenburg intrigues me but there are enough flags I think that you wouldn't want to pull the trigger before the third... and he might be gone by then. They are the only guys I have watched so can't comment on Doughty or others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 One guy I haven't given a good enough evaluation to is Brandon Allen of Arkansas. I watched the Liberty Bowl against KSU last night and he looked great--lots of positives. Hoping I can find 3 or 4 more games of his to digest, because I really liked what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 One guy I haven't given a good enough evaluation to is Brandon Allen of Arkansas. I watched the Liberty Bowl against KSU last night and he looked great--lots of positives. Hoping I can find 3 or 4 more games of his to digest, because I really liked what I saw. Are you sure you're talking about the right guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Are you sure you're talking about the right guy? Yes There were a lot of positives to his game. He may well be draftable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Finally got around to Brandon Doughty. Got to admit, not a big fan. Ticks the boxes for height/weight pretty easily. Solid mechanics. Good arm strength. Footwork is okay, think the field at LSU was the root cause of some of his issues in that game. Accuracy/placement is passable, not great. Works predominently out of shotgun/pistol sets. Shows the ability to manipulate defenders well, can pick apart zone coverage effectively. Does lock on to defined pre-snap reads a little too much (possible that the scheme holds him back in this regard). Can hold the ball a little too long at times, not sure he has a natural feel for pressure in the pocket. Struggles to speed up his processes under pressure. Decision making can be a bit erratic. Given his age (6th year senior), has an injury history (nothing recent though) and the need to learn how to take snaps under center of a regular basis, he came out as a 6th rounder. Wouldn't hate him for the Bills but I don't see him being much more than a career backup. If the task is to find a guy to develop, I'd pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 One guy I haven't given a good enough evaluation to is Brandon Allen of Arkansas. I watched the Liberty Bowl against KSU last night and he looked great--lots of positives. Hoping I can find 3 or 4 more games of his to digest, because I really liked what I saw. daniel Jeremiah likes him @movethesticks Watching more Brandon Allen (Arkansas QB) tape tonight. I really like him. Comfortable in/out of pocket. Accurate. Smooth/easy motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 What the hell is going on? I'm in some weird draft Twilight Zone where Brandon Allen is good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 What the hell is going on? I'm in some weird draft Twilight Zone where Brandon Allen is good... I think I saw the same game Bandit did of Allen and I'm at least curious. I think people look for different things when they talk about backup types. Not entirely sure he's good but he might be backup material. Same with Kevin Hogan and Joel Stave. I don't like them as starter/developmental guys but they might be good long term backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I think I saw the same game Bandit did of Allen and I'm at least curious. I think people look for different things when they talk about backup types. Not entirely sure he's good but he might be backup material. Same with Kevin Hogan and Joel Stave. I don't like them as starter/developmental guys but they might be good long term backups. I don't know what people are seeing. I see horrible ball placement, sloppy footwork (worse than EJ's), bad recognition (he completely disregards a wide open TD pass down the seam in that K St. game. Not sure he'd be able to make the throw anyway.). I turned that video off before it was even over. Huge project in my opinion. Definitely not worth a draft pick. I'm honestly curious about what I'm missing. Maybe he has some much better games to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonechiller Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 BPA, with more focus "up the middle" C, ILB, DT, S, QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I don't know what people are seeing. I see horrible ball placement, sloppy footwork (worse than EJ's), bad recognition (he completely disregards a wide open TD pass down the seam in that K St. game. Not sure he'd be able to make the throw anyway.). I turned that video off before it was even over. Huge project in my opinion. Definitely not worth a draft pick. I'm honestly curious about what I'm missing. Maybe he has some much better games to watch. Never watch Arkansas but... @nfldraftscout #Arkansas QB Brandon Allen reminds me quite a bit of Jimmy Garoppolo. And I think he can start in the NFL eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Never watch Arkansas but... @nfldraftscout #Arkansas QB Brandon Allen reminds me quite a bit of Jimmy Garoppolo. And I think he can start in the NFL eventually. Shows consistency, at least. I didn't like Garoppolo, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Why finding a franchise QB is the key to long-term success: NBC Sports - ProFootballTalk: Ben, Peyton, Brady are 13 of the last 15 AFC Super Bowl quarterbacks http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/17/ben-peyton-brady-are-13-of-the-last-15-afc-super-bowl-quarterbacks/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Why finding a franchise QB is the key to long-term success: NBC Sports - ProFootballTalk: Ben, Peyton, Brady are 13 of the last 15 AFC Super Bowl quarterbacks http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/17/ben-peyton-brady-are-13-of-the-last-15-afc-super-bowl-quarterbacks/ And Flacco set records during the Ravens playoff run. But I digress. The model teams want to follow is the Dilfer model. Concentrate of filling holes at safety and using high draft picks on running back, and just assume any QB you plug in will win the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 And Flacco set records during the Ravens playoff run. But I digress. The model teams want to follow is the Dilfer model. Concentrate of filling holes at safety and using high draft picks on running back, and just assume any QB you plug in will win the Super Bowl. Not one NFL team follows that model--including this one (that spent a 1st round pick on a QB in 2013). I have no idea why you think that anyone does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Why finding a franchise QB is the key to long-term success: NBC Sports - ProFootballTalk: Ben, Peyton, Brady are 13 of the last 15 AFC Super Bowl quarterbacks http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/17/ben-peyton-brady-are-13-of-the-last-15-afc-super-bowl-quarterbacks/ But we have a QB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .... And Flacco set records during the Ravens playoff run. But I digress. The model teams want to follow is the Dilfer model. Concentrate of filling holes at safety and using high draft picks on running back, and just assume any QB you plug in will win the Super Bowl. you almost had me there, nice trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I can see the front office/management team in place taking Chad Kelly if he comes out as a sentimental pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I can see the front office/management team in place taking Chad Kelly if he comes out as a sentimental pick Kelly is going back, maybe next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Kelly is going back, maybe next yearGood, he should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 After watching him today, I would take Dak Prescott in the 4th round. Comparing him to the sophomore I kinda fell in love with for being a ballsy battering ram, it's night and day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) After watching him today, I would take Dak Prescott in the 4th round. Comparing him to the sophomore I kinda fell in love with for being a ballsy battering ram, it's night and day. Your college experience was different than mine... Edited January 18, 2016 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Not one NFL team follows that model--including this one (that spent a 1st round pick on a QB in 2013). I have no idea why you think that anyone does Your sarcasm detector is broke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Your sarcasm detector is broke Forgive me...years spent watching too many folks attempt to advance that argument about our hometown team have left their mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 You obviously don't get what I'm saying or you wouldn't think I'm "bitching" about Tyrod Yes, basing a QB evaluation largely upon his record is flawed. Anyone with a decent skill set can win a few games when in the right situation. Fitz, Foles, McCown, are recent examples. I'm looking for long term stability at the position. Coordinators have a season of tape on Taylor now, and you better believe it'll be tougher next year. The point is quite simple: the best way to proffer long term success is to have a franchise QB. It prevents you from having to be excellent everywhere else to have a shot at winning every year. And yes, there are most certainly talented QBs in this draft. Nobody knows if they'll be the answer either, but the wise thing to do is to hedge the bet on Taylor by drafting one. That's true whether you like it or not. 100 percent agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 That's true whether you like it or not. That's an opinion whether you like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 That's an opinion whether you like it or not. So you're going to contend that there's some other way to achieve long-term success and stability besides having a franchise QB in today's NFL? You're also going to contend that it's somehow unwise to draft a QB with franchise capability when you aren't sure that you've got one? Great...let's hear the facts that support that. I'm 100% certain that nobody needs the supporting facts for my assertion laid out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) So you're going to contend that there's some other way to achieve long-term success and stability besides having a franchise QB in today's NFL? You're also going to contend that it's somehow unwise to draft a QB with franchise capability when you aren't sure that you've got one? Great...let's hear the facts that support that. I'm 100% certain that nobody needs the supporting facts for my assertion laid out. This is the part of your original statement I was referring to: "And yes, there are most certainly talented QBs in this draft. Nobody knows if they'll be the answer either, but the wise thing to do is to hedge the bet on Taylor by drafting one." The wise thing is to "hedge the bet". That's opinion. And yes, other teams have had success (how long is long term?) without doing this. Of course our good friend Trent Dilfer comes to mind. But also look at the Cardinals. They have been very good with QBs they didn't draft and everyone else thought was washed up. First they went to SB with Kurt Warner and are now in the NFC Championship Game with Carson Palmer, both of whom were resurrected from the scrap heap. The Buccaneers had their drafted guy (Dilfer again), but then went to another scrap heap guy, Brad Johnson to win the Super Bowl. Bucs were quite competitive for many years with Trent and Shawn King under center before Johnson arrived. Saints won a SB with a scrap heap guy, Drew Brees as well. Teams have won the SB with backups (Hostetler anyone?). Kurt Warner. There is more than one way to skin a cat. That's my opinion anyway. Edited January 21, 2016 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 @NFL_CFB A Michigan State player vehemently defended QB Connor Cook's reputation --> http://bit.ly/20hl96Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) This is the part of your original statement I was referring to: "And yes, there are most certainly talented QBs in this draft. Nobody knows if they'll be the answer either, but the wise thing to do is to hedge the bet on Taylor by drafting one." The wise thing is to "hedge the bet". That's opinion. And yes, other teams have had success (how long is long term?) without doing this. Of course our good friend Trent Dilfer comes to mind. But also look at the Cardinals. They have been very good with QBs they didn't draft and everyone else thought was washed up. First they went to SB with Kurt Warner and are now in the NFC Championship Game with Carson Palmer, both of whom were resurrected from the scrap heap. The Buccaneers had their drafted guy (Dilfer again), but then went to another scrap heap guy, Brad Johnson to win the Super Bowl. Bucs were quite competitive for many years with Trent and Shawn King under center before Johnson arrived. Saints won a SB with a scrap heap guy, Drew Brees as well. Teams have won the SB with backups (Hostetler anyone?). Kurt Warner. There is more than one way to skin a cat. That's my opinion anyway. Yes, the wise thing is to hedge the bet. It's reckless not to...if Taylor isn't the guy, what then? You remain mired in mediocrity. I see nothing in your post that contradicts it...at all. The remainder of your post is citing references to guys that had one mediocre year (Dilfer, Hostetler)--which is the antithesis of long-term success--or guys that weren't drafted by their teams. I didn't say that a franchise QB has to be acquired via the draft--it just happens to be, by a humongous margin, the most common way to acquire one. The Cardinals have a franchise QB. They had one with Warner as well. Neither of those are examples that contradict my point about franchise QB being the one component that leads to long-term success. I think you got way off track in this discussion. Drew Brees wasn't "a scrap heap guy" at all, and calling him that makes me wonder if you're even being serious here. He was the 32nd overall pick in 2001, and had a very good final year in SD. Had it not been for a shoulder injury AND the drafting of Rivers (oh look, SD hedged their bet because they weren't sure about Brees), he never would've hit the market and signed the richest deal ever for a QB. "Scrap heap guy" and "richest deal ever" are completely diametrically opposed statements. Yes, there's more than one way to get a franchise QB. There is not, however, more than one way to have long-term success in today's NFL; you need a franchise QB. Not a Dilfer, not a Hostetler, a bona fide franchise QB. Edited January 21, 2016 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 @NFL_CFB A Michigan State player vehemently defended QB Connor Cook's reputation --> http://bit.ly/20hl96Z "I don't buy any of that, one bit. I feel like, as he is my brother and he is family to me, it's kind of my obligation to try to kill some of that noise," Harris said. "Hopefully I can do that by getting people to understand from the inside of that locker room that we loved him and that he was the best quarterback in the country, no doubt about it. "It's been a mystery to us, and it's really unfortunate. He's a great guy who comes from a great family. It's hurtful to me as well because he's part of our 2011 class that's been able to do so many special things at Michigan State. I know him, I know his parents well, his sister, I know everything about him. We talk all the time. For how close and tight-knit the team was, to me it's been kind of blasphemous, the amount of things that have been said about him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Wentz if he makes it to round 2. Other than that get camp fodder later in the draft. 1st round pick has to be a starter at OL, LB, DL or a real #2 WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Wentz if he makes it to round 2. Other than that get camp fodder later in the draft. 1st round pick has to be a starter at OL, LB, DL or a real #2 WR. if there is a potential Franchise QB in the first you take him. We don't have to have a starter in the first round as we can get starter in the second and third as well, plus there is no guarantee that who ever is taken in the first will start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 if there is a potential Franchise QB in the first you take him. We don't have to have a starter in the first round as we can get starter in the second and third as well, plus there is no guarantee that who ever is taken in the first will start. I agree. If there is someone that the Bills have a 1st round grade on that is there at 19 they should pick him even if he isn't number 1 on their board. Whaley has shown an ability to get 2nd and 3rd round starters and whilst I haven't got as much into the class as a whole yet I am not sure there are likely to be real elite talents there at 19 that you would be passing up if a QB who you might have ranked at the end of the 1st was the pick. Personally the only QBs I have 1st round grades on are Cook and Goff. I have started to watch some Wentz but haven't seen enough yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Please draft Hogan from Stanford. He is unquestionably the best pro prospect - most consistent performance of any college qb and winner. Also he has andrew luck athletiscm. Shocked but happy he doesn't get talked about Don't know about the "unquestionably" factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) After his performance yesterday, I am starting to wonder if Vernon Adams might deserve more serious consideration. I saw all of his games this year and he was unquestionably effective. I have wondered about his arm strength but he throws a very nice long ball. Reminds me a lot of TT, but without TT's straight line speed. Body might not hold up to NFL punishment. Edited January 24, 2016 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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