NoSaint Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 What you all fail to realize is that he engaged the player that was already being blocked BELOW the player that was already blocking him. The league has made a POINT this year to make those calls to protect the DL Incognito PURPOSEFULLY went low on the block. He was absolutely dumb for doing it. That will get flagged EVERY time. Beyond the emphasis, the ref is responsible for applying a lot of rules to a lot of fluid situations any given second, so they sometimes rely on certain cues even if they don't see the exact infraction Earlier in the game a ref was shielded by clays body but saw the defender go flying by and clays arms outstretched- push off flag even though the camera angle made it look Ticky tack This play it's possible the ref saw an engaged block and a lineman come in free to engage from the side and end up on the ground. Did he see where the contact was clearly? I don't know, but I see how a ref could easily throw a flag there even if the letter of the rule wasn't broken I can easily see the flag being throw if a ref (who is watching more than just Cog) seeing a guy dive towards a player's midsection and ends up at his feet. Sure, it's not the right call (particularly when you watch the replay) but the refs have to make bang bang decisions and it's easy to nitpick things watching a replay in slow motion. Just engage him up top and don't give the ref a chance to throw the flag. Yup - beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Stupid play. The guy is already effectively blocked. And how about the pressure getting thru up the middle ? No ones going to split hairs and say it was his waist, thigh, nut sack, whatever. Richie is dropping down at a descending angle . If you're going to hit him gotta be high, as in chest area . Edited October 4, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Beyond the emphasis, the ref is responsible for applying a lot of rules to a lot of fluid situations any given second, so they sometimes rely on certain cues even if they don't see the exact infraction Earlier in the game a ref was shielded by clays body but saw the defender go flying by and clays arms outstretched- push off flag even though the camera angle made it look Ticky tack This play it's possible the ref saw an engaged block and a lineman come in free to engage from the side and end up on the ground. Did he see where the contact was clearly? I don't know, but I see how a ref could easily throw a flag there even if the letter of the rule wasn't broken Yup - beat me to it. Do you think the league's and network's elevation of the officiating to a wildly outsized and grossly overproduced level could be a reason these guys feel comfortable throwing flags at penalties that they don't even see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Ross TuckerVerified account @RossTuckerNFL 1h1 hour ago Worst Chop Block call ever on Incognito. This ref Hussey needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Stupid play. The guy is already effectively blocked. And how about the pressure getting thru up the middle ? No ones going to split hairs and say it was his waist, thigh, nut sack, whatever. Richie is dropping down at a descending angle . If you're going to hit him gotta be high, as in chest area . Yea, I think the lunge got him more than the level. Even if the call was wrong it's an easy one to dissect how the flag came out it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It was not a penalty nor was the holding penalty that took away the TD run by Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronyAbounds Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 What's interesting is that he takes off to help the guy on his left, who didn't need help, while the blocker to his right was having trouble dealing with his assignment and that defender almost got through to TT. All in all, not Richie's finest moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Do you think the league's and network's elevation of the officiating to a wildly outsized and grossly overproduced level could be a reason these guys feel comfortable throwing flags at penalties that they don't even see? I have to wonder if this is the byproduct of all the new officials they've brought in as well. This was another crew headed by a rookie Referee, just like the Pats game. So many of the calls seem to be made by guys who are not in good position or were guessing what they were seeing when they were shielded from the play. That and a wildly inconsistent interpretation from series to series. It just smacks of inexperience and 'the game's too fast' for some of these guys at this point in the season. I hope this tendency goes down as we get into the second half of the year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately, it looked like a good call to me. From what I've seen it definitely looks like it's in the area of the thigh and I'm sure the refs are told that if it's even close to the thigh call it. Can't really dispute that. It was not a penalty nor was the holding penalty that took away the TD run by Taylor. I'll admit I missed it but everyone I was watching the game with at the bar made it sound like it was a pretty blatant hold. Edited October 4, 2015 by Talley56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Problem was there was no need for RI to even touch the guy. This! Although it didn't look like a penalty to me. It took a TD off the score board and basically killed the Bills chance for a comeback. Still, it shouldn't have come to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Do you think the league's and network's elevation of the officiating to a wildly outsized and grossly overproduced level could be a reason these guys feel comfortable throwing flags at penalties that they don't even see? Yes and no. Asking 7 guys to officiate 22 guys, a ball and boundaries in real time is always going to rely on some basic visual clues (in this case an OL coming in lunging at a guy that's already engaged and ending up on the ground). We get 13 camera angles, slo-mo, and the gift of hindsight and don't get them all right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It was a penalty. He was trying to go low. I looked to me that he slipped and ended up going lower than he wanted to. And he hit him in the hip,not the thighs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It was a double team. Bad call. One of many many bad calls. The defensive hold on Darby was BS too. Holding on Tyrod's td bad call. Offensive pass interference on Clay. Bad call. Personal foul on Preston Brown, bad call. He was working his way out of the scrum. Bad things happen in there. When O'Dell was jacking with Brown, Brown got the call. Should have been on both of them. What was that thing on his lip? A mustache? Dirty Sanchez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It was a double team. Bad call. One of many many bad calls. The defensive hold on Darby was BS too. Holding on Tyrod's td bad call. Offensive pass interference on Clay. Bad call. Personal foul on Preston Brown, bad call. He was working his way out of the scrum. Bad things happen in there. When O'Dell was jacking with Brown, Brown got the call. Should have been on both of them. What was that thing on his lip? A mustache? Dirty Sanchez? What about the roughing the passer on TT? Clear as day and they pick up the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Ross TuckerVerified account @RossTuckerNFL 1h1 hour ago Worst Chop Block call ever on Incognito. This ref Hussey needs to go. Yeah exactly, especially because he made a call based on what he "thought" he saw, when we couldn't see it from where he was standing. Ultimate No-No for officials. If you can't see it, you can't call it. You can't just make up what happened in your head based on what you think you saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Another look: https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CQgFuQNWoAAYWgT.mp4 The point of contact is the white (shirt) portion of the Giant player's uniform. I.E., by definition, above the waist. A bad call. One of many in the game and in the league as a whole week to week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Yeah exactly, especially because he made a call based on what he "thought" he saw, when we couldn't see it from where he was standing. Ultimate No-No for officials. If you can't see it, you can't call it. You can't just make up what happened in your head based on what you think you saw. Hussey was standing at least 10-12 yards behind Tyrod on that play and in the FOX feed you can see his view was shielded by the other Bills lineman. IMO, just too many 'radar' calls today by an inexperienced crew... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 What you all fail to realize is that he engaged the player that was already being blocked BELOW the player that was already blocking him. The league has made a POINT this year to make those calls to protect the DL Incognito PURPOSEFULLY went low on the block. He was absolutely dumb for doing it. That will get flagged EVERY time. Besides the fact that Incognito did not hit the guy on the thigh or lower, how do you know what Incognito's intent was, and when can penalties be called on intent alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Yeah exactly, especially because he made a call based on what he "thought" he saw, when we couldn't see it from where he was standing. Ultimate No-No for officials. If you can't see it, you can't call it. You can't just make up what happened in your head based on what you think you saw. Yeah, common sense, something the refs don't have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 How much did the mafia have on this game I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 How much did the mafia have on this game I wonder? Mafia, Smafia. More like the new organized crime syndicates...Fan Duel and Draft Kings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Mafia, Smafia. More like the new organized crime syndicates...Fan Duel and Draft Kings... You say tomato... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkreed Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Hussey was standing at least 10-12 yards behind Tyrod on that play and in the FOX feed you can see his view was shielded by the other Bills lineman. IMO, just too many 'radar' calls today by an inexperienced crew... If anyone is a football official, what area is the referee supposed to watch on plays? I ask because in Lacrosse, as the trailing official in 2 man or the single side official in 3 man, when an offensive player takes a shot, this official must watch the shooter (to look for late hits and protect the player). I was under the impression that the referee watched the quarterback and the other officials the line and such. That being said, why is he watching the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Unfortunately, it looked like a good call to me. From what I've seen it definitely looks like it's in the area of the thigh and I'm sure the refs are told that if it's even close to the thigh call it. Can't really dispute that. I'll admit I missed it but everyone I was watching the game with at the bar made it sound like it was a pretty blatant hold. No the block was above the waist...how is above the waist at thigh level or below? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I was under the impression that the referee watched the quarterback and the other officials the line and such. That being said, why is he watching the line? Good question. Hussey was the guy who threw it--from long distance and with a partially obscured sightline. I believe he was also the guy who threw the ticky tack holding flag on Urbik... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 From the NFL rule book: A chop block is a foul by the offense in which one offensive player (designated as A1 for purposes of this rule) blocks a defensive player in the area of the thigh or lower while another offensive player (A2) occupies that same defensive player in one of the circumstances described in subsections (1) through (10) below. The penalty on Incognito was not a penalty. Boderline call. Incognito should have never engaged the defender to begin with let alone with intent to go low on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 No, he was trying to send the message that he could go low at any time he wanted because there had been some liberties being taken with guys legs shortly before that. He knew exactly what he was doing and made sure the block was legal but still got a point across. This league has been chock-full of over-officious jerks for a few years now and it looks like it's finally coming to a head. bingo! the ref had it in his head that we might retaliate, and made that call on what he thought was gonna happen - not what did happen. same kind of over-reach as an ump that runs a pitcher for throwing inside after a dust-up on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) We need robot refs. IT WAS NOT A PENALTY! Did ne need to help block him? No. So what?! Not even that close to a chop block. Now you can't block someone in the ribs? Another GAME CHANGING penalty against Buffalo. One of many. This is getting ridiculous. Officiating is a joke. Every call is subjective. Even my giants fans friends admitted the horrible calls today. I told them it's always like this. They didn't believe me. Is it just me?? Edited October 4, 2015 by Rise Up Lights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) We need robot refs. IT WAS NOT A PENALTY! Did ne need to help block him? No. So what?! Not even that close to a chop block. Now you can't block someone in the ribs? Another GAME CHANGING penalty against Buffalo. One of many. This is getting ridiculous. Officiating is a joke. Every call is subjective. Even my giants fans friends admitted the horrible calls today. I told them it's always like this. They didn't believe me. Is it just me?? O-lineman was engaged high, ingognito lunged low, albeit not at the knees but it looked worse at full speed. I really don't have a problem with the call. It is a very dangerous play. I have more of a problem with incognitos dumb decision there. Edited October 4, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Yeah, bad call on that as well as the hold on Urbik to negate TT's nice run for a TD. Still, I can't blame any aspect of this loss on the refs. We were simply out-coached and outplayed once again. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Boderline call. Incognito should have never engaged the defender to begin with let alone with intent to go low on him. No it wasn't and he didn't even attempt to go low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) No it wasn't and he didn't even attempt to go low. Not sure what you were watching but the defender was engaged chest high and incognito lunged head first around the waist/groin. Still a dangerous play. Even though it wasn't at the knee one player was engaged high and the other effectively low. Not surprised it was called actually. Edited October 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Agreed he didn't NEED to make that block. But is he supposed to look around, make sure Tryod is safe, then just lay off? Get real. He hit the guy in the freakin ribs. I have never seen a chop block get called like. I'd be shocked to hear you have. It wasn't a chop block. What is the argument? That he hit an engaged blocker in the ribs? I don't get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Not sure what you were watching but the defender was engaged chest high and incognito lunged head first around the waist/groin. Still a dangerous play. Even though it wasn't at the knee one player was engaged high and the other effectively low. Not surprised it was called actually. Your assessment is average at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Looked to me like Ritchie lunged into his block and stumbled towards the ground. The intent was clean but the result was on the margin. The question I have is why so many borderline calls go against us. Terry needs to talk to the League because the deck seems stacked. Maybe Kim should be on the Competition Committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) O-lineman was engaged high, ingognito lunged low, albeit not at the knees but it looked worse at full speed. I really don't have a problem with the call. It is a very dangerous play. I have more of a problem with incognitos dumb decision there. So you consider the ribs low? Was not even close to the knees. Edited October 5, 2015 by Rise Up Lights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 You can blame the refs all you want but did Incognito need to do that? He should never have put the refs in that situation in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The guy didn't even buckle or bend from the block. There is no reason to make that call. I understand bad calls from bad angles. That happens all the time. But not only did Incognito hit him at the waist, the guy didn't even bend from the hit. Intolerable call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 You can blame the refs all you want but did Incognito need to do that? He should never have put the refs in that situation in the first place. This seems like an odd thing to say. He made a split second move in a football play and made a legitimate block. Got flagged for a legal block, but he's at fault for putting the refs in a position to make a bad call? Is this a real thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilLions Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 He went lower than the other OL's engagement point, they'll call that every time. He should know better, and coaches should make sure our players know better. F that. Why is everyone always making excuses for the refs? It was a penalty. He was trying to go low. What are you smoking dude? Yet another lame excuse for bad reffing. This. X1000. And he never learns.... True but why do refs get a pass for calling by having thin skin and not making legit calls? They should be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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