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I'll say one thing about Orton

eSJayDee

By eSJayDee
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Coach Tuesday Hall of Famer

Coach Tuesday

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Most people will blame the QB. However, could anybody really excel playing in that offense today. The line,OC and OL coach (who always seems to go unmentioned), were the main culprits today.

 

Wrong! Wrong! I have seen Big Ben shred defenses while playing behind offensive lines worse than this one. Same with Rivers. Yes, the line is putrid, but the main problem is the guy under center.

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Georgia Bill RFA

Georgia Bill

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Wrong! Wrong! I have seen Big Ben shred defenses while playing behind offensive lines worse than this one. Same with Rivers. Yes, the line is putrid, but the main problem is the guy under center.

Rivers in the game last night just seemed to will the Chargers to a win, like no way he was going to stand for a loss. And that was after getting down by 21. He delivered with gutsy play (bulging disk to boot). I get the feeling with Orton it's just "oh well, we tried, and a few things didn't go our way".
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Sojourner RFA

Sojourner

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Wrong! Wrong! I have seen Big Ben shred defenses while playing behind offensive lines worse than this one. Same with Rivers. Yes, the line is putrid, but the main problem is the guy under center.

Most definitely regarding Big Ben. His O-Lines the past few years have been pretty horrific yet he still makes great throws, great judgement and amazing extending of a broken play.

A better line would make Kyle look better but he just won't cut the mustard. There's a reason he's bounced around the league for his career. He's a backup at best.

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bigK14094 Veteran

bigK14094

Posted
Posted (edited)

Orton suffered with Hacketts offensive calls. Hackett calls a play action pass for the start of the last drive today. Now, Hackett must be the only person in the stadium who thinks the Bills might run down by 9....yet, he doens't give Orton the ease of working out of the shotgun. Hackett is over his head bigtime...and Marrone also if he is partial architect of the offensive game. Marrone backed Hackett this week, I will say this....if Marrone can't kick himself upstairs, and hire a real OC with full control, Marrone needs to go also.

Edited by bigK14094
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mrags Hall of Famer

mrags

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Huh? I have doubts about anyone that can defend Orton at this point.

yeah. That's what I was thinking.

 

You guys ever play QB with no blocking? I doubt it!

i have serious doubts you have too. But that's besides the point. Other QBs in this league have played better with worse lines. Orton has no excuse. He's just terrible.
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Fixxxer All Pro

Fixxxer

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Orton suffered with Hacketts offensive calls. Hackett calls a play action pass for the start of the last drive today. Now, Hackett must be the only person in the stadium who thinks the Bills might run down by 9....yet, he doens't give Orton the ease of working out of the shotgun. Hackett is over his head bigtime...and Marrone also if he is partial architect of the offensive game. Marrone backed Hackett this week, I will say this....if Marrone can't kick himself upstairs, and hire a real OC with full control, Marrone needs to go also.

 

I called that one in the chat room, really didn't make sense to PA in that situation, worse of all the 9 year vet agreed with it and ran it.

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Fadingpain All Pro

Fadingpain

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You guys ever play QB with no blocking? I doubt it!

 

A-ha! The classic straw man argument.

 

Altering the terms of the argument to make it easier to attack.

 

No one suggested a good QB can overcome "NO BLOCKING"...rather, a good QB can overcome mediocre or poor O-line play.

 

Those are two entirely different propositions.

 

Our QB play, all season, has been well below average and neither starting QB this season is good enough to be considered a viable starter for this team next season.

 

We need to stop focusing on these guys (the problem) and start focusing on the solution.

 

Who the hell are we going to get THIS OFFSEASON to improve this dumpster fire at QB?

 

That is the question my friends!

Edited by Stopthepain
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Fadingpain All Pro

Fadingpain

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Yeah it would be nice to have one of the top 6-7 guys in the league wouldn't it?

 

See above !@#$

 

Who do you want to see us get for next season at QB? Being realistic, and not saying "we trade our 6th round pick for Aaron Rodgers" or that type of thing.

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hondo in seattle All Pro

hondo in seattle

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Most people will blame the QB. However, could anybody really excel playing in that offense today. The line,OC and OL coach (who always seems to go unmentioned), were the main culprits today.

 

Good point. We often blame Hackett and the offensive line - and rightly so IMHO - for our offensive woes. But when you watch our offensive linemen miss assignments, I'm not sure how Pat Morris escapes criticism. Our OL was horrific today and he's the guy paid to make sure they are not horrific.

 

Morris has been an NFL OL coach since the 90s so he must know something. But it's not translating to the field very well this year.

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Maury Ballstein All Pro

Maury Ballstein

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Posted (edited)

Most people will blame the QB. However, could anybody really excel playing in that offense today. The line,OC and OL coach (who always seems to go unmentioned), were the main culprits today.

 

Whose the schmuck throwing 2 yard passes on 3rd and 10. Get this loser off the field.

Edited by Ryan L Billz
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TSOL Veteran

TSOL

Posted
Posted (edited)

My hindsight senses are tingeling

I still dont fully accept the reasoning behind the QB switch.

 

EJ would have probably netted us 7-8 wins this season.

Its baffeling to me.

Like the Mike Williams thing

Like the Urbik thing

What the hell is this staff thinking

 

Now im gonna go watch what a real coaching staff can do with a 3rd string QB.

Edited by mastershake
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billsfanmiami(oh) Veteran

billsfanmiami(oh)

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Orton suffered with Hacketts offensive calls. Hackett calls a play action pass for the start of the last drive today. Now, Hackett must be the only person in the stadium who thinks the Bills might run down by 9....yet, he doens't give Orton the ease of working out of the shotgun. Hackett is over his head bigtime...and Marrone also if he is partial architect of the offensive game. Marrone backed Hackett this week, I will say this....if Marrone can't kick himself upstairs, and hire a real OC with full control, Marrone needs to go also.

 

I flipped **** at that call. Yeah great time for play action Nate. Just shows how inept/ in over their heads these idiots are.

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reddogblitz Hall of Famer

reddogblitz

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Posted

Big Ben, Luck, Rivers.....

 

Keep making excuses but Orton us the worst player on the field. And it's not close

 

Offensive line is way worse. Kyle at least only ruins the pass offense. The offensive line ruins our pass offense AND run offense. While up until this week our D has looked better week to week. The offensive line is meanwhile getting worse.

 

Either someone found us a bad mess of offensive linemen, or someone is doing a bad job of coaching them up.

 

Simple and pedictable offense isn't helping either.

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PolishDave Veteran

PolishDave

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Wrong! Wrong! I have seen Big Ben shred defenses while playing behind offensive lines worse than this one. Same with Rivers. Yes, the line is putrid, but the main problem is the guy under center.

You are right about Big Ben and Rivers, but where are you going to get one of those? You have to work with what is available. You have to try to win with what you can get.

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Chandler#81 Hall of Famer

Chandler#81

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Posted

 

You are right about Big Ben and Rivers, but where are you going to get one of those? You have to work with what is available. You have to try to win with what you can get.

 

Hey! There's no room for level-headedness here! The Coach is on one of his rolls and Orton is the ONLY problem the Bills offense has!

 

JK. Obviously, Tomorrow's Coach didn't see Carr routinely throw under the sticks on 3rd down to running WR's, who then promptly ran for the sticks and made 1st Downs. Same exact plays, completely different results. Is Orton's footwork terrible? Yes. Does he far too often throw immediately to the valve when the primary option is covered from the gitgo? Yes. Has he seen most everything Defenses will do in 9 years and know instinctively where someone 'should' therefore be open? Yes. On a day where running the ball was NO OPTION, did he complete 32 passes for 327 yrds with 3 scores and a couple picks in 49 freakin attempts? Yes. Would Manuel have been able to accomplish that in that situation? Has he EVER done that? Has Orton? Yes. Do we need an upgrade at QBbefore this defense evaporates? Yes. Is that guy on the team? No. Realistically, are we gonna rob a playoff caliber QB from another team in the off-season. Would any team with said player be willing to?

No.

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section122 Veteran

section122

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Posted

My hindsight senses are tingeling

 

 

Now im gonna go watch what a real coaching staff can do with a 3rd string QB.

 

My hindsight sense want to ask you if enjoyed watching that coaching staff get 6 points yesterday?

 

Arizona is 8-1 this year with Carson Palmer and 3-3 without. They are averaging a robust 11.66 points without Carson Palmer and were averaging 24.77 with him. They have yet to break 20 points in any of the 6 games without him and didn't break 20 points in 1 of 9 games with him. Can we now put to rest the "look what Arians is doing with scrubs at qb argument?"

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PolishDave Veteran

PolishDave

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Posted

Orton needs what every QB needs in this league who isn't an elite quarterback:

 

1) Coaches who can devise an offense around his strengths

2) A decent running game

3) Time to throw the ball in passing situations.

4) Receivers who can get open and catch the friggin ball.

 

If you could give him all 4 of those, Orton would look like he is an elite quarterback even though he is not.

 

If you take all 4 of those things away from him, he will look like one of the worst quarterbacks in the league even though he is not.

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starrymessenger Veteran

starrymessenger

Posted
Posted

 

 

Wrong! Wrong! I have seen Big Ben shred defenses while playing behind offensive lines worse than this one. Same with Rivers. Yes, the line is putrid, but the main problem is the guy under center.

 

And what about the guy in the sky calling plays?

Did you forget about him?

 

Orton needs what every QB needs in this league who isn't an elite quarterback:

 

1) Coaches who can devise an offense around his strengths

2) A decent running game

3) Time to throw the ball in passing situations.

4) Receivers who can get open and catch the friggin ball.

 

If you could give him all 4 of those, Orton would look like he is an elite quarterback even though he is not.

 

If you take all 4 of those things away from him, he will look like one of the worst quarterbacks in the league even though he is not.

You nailed it.

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rumblefish RFA

rumblefish

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Posted (edited)

say all the negative things about Orton you want, and some of them are on target, but ask yourself this how can a team play for a coach who won't go for it on 4 and 1 with the season on the line, Bills have a leadership problem from HC to the huddle, so if you are going to replace the QB, better get one with leadership DNA , who would have fought to go for it on 4and 1 and a Coach willing to let him

Edited by rumblefish
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All_Pro_Bills Veteran

All_Pro_Bills

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Posted

Orton suffered with Hacketts offensive calls. Hackett calls a play action pass for the start of the last drive today. Now, Hackett must be the only person in the stadium who thinks the Bills might run down by 9....yet, he doens't give Orton the ease of working out of the shotgun. Hackett is over his head bigtime...and Marrone also if he is partial architect of the offensive game. Marrone backed Hackett this week, I will say this....if Marrone can't kick himself upstairs, and hire a real OC with full control, Marrone needs to go also.

You got to think Orton must have said that to himself "Hackett is the only guy in the stadium that thinks play action is going to slow the rush or hesitate the linebackers from dropping into coverage, Unbelievable".

 

And at some point after 2 or 3 games he must have said to himself "I've been in the league a while now, I know what works and what doesn't, and this guy doesn't know how to game plan in the NFL or call and offensive game".

 

That, having no confidence in your coaches, has got to affect your game. It's got to effect the entire offense. Is it the only problem? No, but its a big one..

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D. L. Hot-Flamethrower All Pro

D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

Posted
Posted (edited)

Orton needs what every QB needs in this league who isn't an elite quarterback:

 

1) Coaches who can devise an offense around his strengths

2) A decent running game

3) Time to throw the ball in passing situations.

4) Receivers who can get open and catch the friggin ball.

 

If you could give him all 4 of those, Orton would look like he is an elite quarterback even though he is not.

 

If you take all 4 of those things away from him, he will look like one of the worst quarterbacks in the league even though he is not.

Thank You. I was beginning to wonder if there was anyone else who could rationally look at things and realize that Orton is not the only problem. Your analysis is right on!

Hey! There's no room for level-headedness here! The Coach is on one of his rolls and Orton is the ONLY problem the Bills offense has!

 

JK. Obviously, Tomorrow's Coach didn't see Carr routinely throw under the sticks on 3rd down to running WR's, who then promptly ran for the sticks and made 1st Downs. Same exact plays, completely different results. Is Orton's footwork terrible? Yes. Does he far too often throw immediately to the valve when the primary option is covered from the gitgo? Yes. Has he seen most everything Defenses will do in 9 years and know instinctively where someone 'should' therefore be open? Yes. On a day where running the ball was NO OPTION, did he complete 32 passes for 327 yrds with 3 scores and a couple picks in 49 freakin attempts? Yes. Would Manuel have been able to accomplish that in that situation? Has he EVER done that? Has Orton? Yes. Do we need an upgrade at QBbefore this defense evaporates? Yes. Is that guy on the team? No. Realistically, are we gonna rob a playoff caliber QB from another team in the off-season. Would any team with said player be willing to?

No.

Awesome! some one else is rational. Oh and BTW, as a global moderator-I was warned by BEERBALL for crossing the line and telling that snotty, arrogant, condescending ,patronizing STOP THE PAIN to kiss my ass. Double standard as I have seen a particular person on here tell someone to "bite me", and no warning was issued. Oh and check that snotty,arrogant,condescending,patronizing STOP THE PAIN posts. I would tell him to kiss my ass again in a heartbeat. Edited by 75Bills
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TSOL Veteran

TSOL

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

My hindsight sense want to ask you if enjoyed watching that coaching staff get 6 points yesterday?

 

Arizona is 8-1 this year with Carson Palmer and 3-3 without. They are averaging a robust 11.66 points without Carson Palmer and were averaging 24.77 with him. They have yet to break 20 points in any of the 6 games without him and didn't break 20 points in 1 of 9 games with him. Can we now put to rest the "look what Arians is doing with scrubs at qb argument?"

 

Considering the circumstances of last nights game, what Arizona had to deal with and what they have done this season, id take Arians and this roster. EJ starting and id have a hell of alot more confidence going into the teeth of the vaunted Black Hole than i do with Orton and Marrone.

 

And yes, i agree with the put it to rest part because all these what if this, what if that scenarios are ridiculous. We have what we have and must deal with it.

 

Now, im gonna root for the Bills no matter what cuz theyre our team and theyre stayin! And id expect youll do the same. But thanks for the @%$#!?+ stats on #@!%?/$

Arizona with and without Carson *!@#%$! Palmer in there cuz thats what i really needed to cope with this @#!*$%& loss this fine sunny @!$#&?$ Monday morning

Edited by mastershake
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Sisyphean Bills All Pro

Sisyphean Bills

Posted
Posted

Orton needs what every QB needs in this league who isn't an elite quarterback:

 

1) Coaches who can devise an offense around his strengths

2) A decent running game

3) Time to throw the ball in passing situations.

4) Receivers who can get open and catch the friggin ball.

 

If you could give him all 4 of those, Orton would look like he is an elite quarterback even though he is not.

 

If you take all 4 of those things away from him, he will look like one of the worst quarterbacks in the league even though he is not.

 

Good point. Put Orton in a Pop Warner offense, and it's going to be quickly apparent he doesn't have the talent to look like a superstar running it against NFL defenses. It might be quite difficult for a Hall-of-Fame caliber QB to look mediocre under the same circumstances.

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section122 Veteran

section122

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Posted

Considering the circumstances of last nights game, what Arizona had to deal with and what they have done this season, id take Arians and this roster. EJ starting and id have a hell of alot more confidence going into the teeth of the vaunted Black Hole than i do with Orton and Marrone.

 

And yes, i agree with the put it to rest part because all these what if this, what if that scenarios are ridiculous. We have what we have and must deal with it.

 

Now, im gonna root for the Bills no matter what cuz theyre our team and theyre stayin! And id expect youll do the same. But thanks for the @%$#!?+ stats on #@!%?/$

Arizona with and without Carson *!@#%$! Palmer in there cuz thats what i really needed to cope with this @#!*$%& loss this fine sunny @!$#&?$ Monday morning

 

I too would take Arians and Ej but that is because I have the utmost repsect for Arians as a coach and think he is one of the best in the game right now. Marrone isn't on his level but taking Arians over him is like saying I would take Belichick over him. I like Marrone and I like the job he has done here. I am completely over Orton though and that is why I agree with your statement. I never want to have to watch him play qb again unless it is against the Buffalo Bills. He isn't the worst qb in the league but he is a qb that you can't win with. The next time he straps this team on his back and carries them to victory will be his first.

 

As for the stats I laid out, I just wanted to point out that this is a very qb driven league. When the Cardinals had one they won and scored points. Now that they don't have one they aren't and can't. I always root for the Bills almost to a fault and my post was actually defending them so I'm not so sure what the rest of your post meant lol.

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