YoloinOhio Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 @Rotoworld_Draft: Kiper doesn't see a franchise QB in '15 draft http://t.co/AMEOhHIqRw Does have Mariota #1 on big board which just means that is where he thinks he will be picked. Jameis is 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Kiper's never wrong. Just ask Jimmy Clausen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Kipers an idiot anyhow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I believe they said there were no franchise quarterbacks in the 2012 NFL draft but did the Jets,Bills listen ??? NOOOOOooooooooooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 @Rotoworld_Draft: Kiper doesn't see a franchise QB in '15 draft http://t.co/AMEOhHIqRw Does have Mariota #1 on big board which just means that is where he thinks he will be picked. Jameis is 6. I would be curious to read Kiper's explanation for why Mariota is not a "franchise QB". IMO, Mariota is easily the best prospect since Luck and will be a better pro than Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Kiper's never wrong. Just ask Jimmy Clausen. To be fair, I think that was more McShay than Kiper Edit: I was wrong http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/19/mcshay-kiper-draw-their-final-battle-lines-on-jimmy-clausen/ Edited December 11, 2014 by Captain Hindsight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 To be fair, I think that was more McShay than Kiper Edit: I was wrong http://profootballta...-jimmy-clausen/ Mel Kiper Jr. “If [Jimmy Clausen] is not a successful starting quarterback in the NFL, I'm done. That's it. I'm out.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I would be curious to read Kiper's explanation for why Mariota is not a "franchise QB". IMO, Mariota is easily the best prospect since Luck and will be a better pro than Luck. He is more of a runner than a thrower and viewed as a product of the system are some of the common criticisms. I agree he is the best since Luck but strongly disagree that he will be a better pro than Luck. In year 3 Luck has moved into the conversation for top 5 (active) qbs this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) I believe they said there were no franchise quarterbacks in the 2012 NFL draft but did the Jets,Bills listen ??? NOOOOOooooooooooooo And they were all about the 2014 class and they kinda suck. Why do people even listen to these guys? Kiper is a businessman and I give him credit for that. But he is a guy who went to community college & never played/ coached football on any level. Edited December 11, 2014 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) I would be curious to read Kiper's explanation for why Mariota is not a "franchise QB". IMO, Mariota is easily the best prospect since Luck and will be a better pro than Luck. Whoa! You comfortable out there on that limb? Edited December 11, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 I would be curious to read Kiper's explanation for why Mariota is not a "franchise QB". IMO, Mariota is easily the best prospect since Luck and will be a better pro than Luck. not arguing as I am not an expert evaluator of QBs and have only watched him once or twice. But why do you have that assessment of him? Just curious mainly because the Oregon offense is not good prep for the nfl and he seems to make a lot of one read throws to wide open guys. But again I haven't watched him all that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 not arguing as I am not an expert evaluator of QBs and have only watched him once or twice. But why do you have that assessment of him? Just curious mainly because the Oregon offense is not good prep for the nfl and he seems to make a lot of one read throws to wide open guys. But again I haven't watched him all that much. I like MM but it's very hard to say he is a slam dunk. Oregon is loaded with talent and almost any qb would be put up #s in that system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Whoa! You comfortable out there on that limb? Yeah, that's a pretty bold statement. I'd say Luck is already better than anyone except Rodgers, Manning and Brady, and the last two just barely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I would be curious to read Kiper's explanation for why Mariota is not a "franchise QB". IMO, Mariota is easily the best prospect since Luck and will be a better pro than Luck. I would be curious to read Kiper's explanation for why Mariota is not a "franchise QB". IMO, Mariota is easily the best prospect since Luck and will be a better pro than Luck. Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Let's settle down a bit. Long way to go to be LUCK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Nails Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 just reach for another QB that can only read half the field. We'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 just reach for another QB that can only read half the field. We'll be fine. how about a QB who can only play half the game? Winston = hole digger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 He is more of a runner than a thrower and viewed as a product of the system are some of the common criticisms. I agree he is the best since Luck but strongly disagree that he will be a better pro than Luck. In year 3 Luck has moved into the conversation for top 5 (active) qbs this year. Not really true. Mariota is a fantastic passer and the "system" he's in is the exact same system that Chip Kelly has made successful in the NFL. Mariota is going to be a great pro. Outside of his obvious talents, he's extremely studious and a cerebral player. He loves the game and doesn't bring any baggage, emotional or mechanical. I wouldn't say he'll be a better pro than Luck (Luck and Mariota are 2 of the best players I've ever had the pleasure of watching live) but he'll be a successful pro. IMO Mariota will be like Russell Wilson where he'll play mistake free football and be extremely efficient as opposed to someone who throws for 350 yards per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Mel Kiper Jr. “If [Jimmy Clausen] is not a successful starting quarterback in the NFL, I'm done. That's it. I'm out.” the bar of success is dynamic, not static, I am guessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Whoa! You comfortable out there on that limb? Yep. I have been saying it for quite some time. I saw a lot of Luck at Stanford and I have seen every game of Mariota's career at Oregon. There are things Mariota can improve upon, but he is extremely smart, a very hard worker and exceedingly humble. He is going to be a great QB in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Not really true. Mariota is a fantastic passer and the "system" he's in is the exact same system that Chip Kelly has made successful in the NFL. Mariota is going to be a great pro. Outside of his obvious talents, he's extremely studious and a cerebral player. He loves the game and doesn't bring any baggage, emotional or mechanical. I wouldn't say he'll be a better pro than Luck (Luck and Mariota are 2 of the best players I've ever had the pleasure of watching live) but he'll be a successful pro. IMO Mariota will be like Russell Wilson where he'll play mistake free football and be extremely efficient as opposed to someone who throws for 350 yards per game. i don't think it is the exact same system. I know Helfrich was his OC but he had to Make changes to fit the nfl. Wasn't it Chip who just said his pro system wouldn't work in college when he was asked if he would be interested in the UF job? Edited December 11, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yep. I have been saying it for quite some time. I saw a lot of Luck at Stanford and I have seen every game of Mariota's career at Oregon. There are things Mariota can improve upon, but he is extremely smart, a very hard worker and exceedingly humble. He is going to be a great QB in the NFL. You might end up being correct because he has talent and is a great athlete. I wonder if he has the innate pocket sense that's required and his ability to drive the ball when necessary is a question mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 i don't think it is the exact same system. I know Helfrich was his OC but he had to Make changes to fit the nfl. Wasn't it Chip who just said his pro system wouldn't work in college when he was asked if he would be interested in the UF job? Yes, because he was being facetious. Because people said his college system wouldn't work in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yes, because he was being facetious. Because people said his college system wouldn't work in the NFL. ok... http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2014/11/kenjon_barner_says_chip_kellys_offense_is_completely_different_with_eagles_than_it_was_at_oregon.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 And they were all about the 2014 class and they kinda suck. Why do people even listen to these guys? Kiper is a businessman and I give him credit for that. But he is a guy who went to community college & never played/ coached football on any level. Aw that sucks. What did I do to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I can't wait for this thread to reappear in 3 years when Bryce Petty or some other 5th round scrub becomes a good starter. Everyone on here will be doing the, "I knew that ____ was going to be a star. The Bills are incompetent. They should have listened to me about ____." Never mind the other 35 scrubs that will amount to nothing. Everyone will have had a 1st round grade on whatever guy pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I thought this was going to be a huge QB year, and that's why the Bills were stupid to trade their #1 pick? Wow, how opinions change! @Rotoworld_Draft: Kiper doesn't see a franchise QB in '15 draft http://t.co/AMEOhHIqRw Does have Mariota #1 on big board which just means that is where he thinks he will be picked. Jameis is 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 I can't wait for this thread to reappear in 3 years when Bryce Petty or some other 5th round scrub becomes a good starter. Everyone on here will be doing the, "I knew that ____ was going to be a star. The Bills are incompetent. They should have listened to me about ____." Never mind the other 35 scrubs that will amount to nothing. Everyone will have had a 1st round grade on whatever guy pans out. we definitely need to go on record prior to the draft this year before anyone uses revisionist history to show how smart they were and they should have Whaley's job yadda yadda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 ok... http://www.nj.com/ea..._at_oregon.html Hey, it's a fast-paced, no huddle offense. It MUST be the same. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I've been on Winston's bandwagon since watching him on ESPN's Elite 11 series a few years back. I won't come off it until it completely derails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I can't wait for this thread to reappear in 3 years when Bryce Petty or some other 5th round scrub becomes a good starter. Everyone on here will be doing the, "I knew that ____ was going to be a star. The Bills are incompetent. They should have listened to me about ____." Never mind the other 35 scrubs that will amount to nothing. Everyone will have had a 1st round grade on whatever guy pans out. I've never understood this argument.. Is the point that fans got it wrong so they should lay off the GM for getting it wrong too? I get the frustration with fans acting afterwards like they thought the choice was obvious but that does not excuse poor choices by the men paid millions to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I like MM but it's very hard to say he is a slam dunk. Oregon is loaded with talent and almost any qb would be put up #s in that system. I won't lie. The system is a concern. Under Kelly, the Ducks went 12-0 and reached the national championship game with Darron Thomas at QB, a guy who not only did not get drafted, but who couldn't even get invited to an NFL training camp. IMO, though, this system has been holding Mariota back. I can't prove it, but with his size and arm, I think Mariota would do even better in more of pro-set offense. However, such a system would limit his effectiveness as a runner, which is considerable. It's also true--this year, at least--that Oregon has some very good WRs who are "college open" a lot of the time. I don't think that was necessarily true the previous two years, though. I think the system Mariota plays in is the main reason he is not considered the slam-dunk prospect that Luck was. I've never understood this argument.. Is the point that fans got it wrong so they should lay off the GM for getting it wrong too? I get the frustration with fans acting afterwards like they thought the choice was obvious but that does not excuse poor choices by the men paid millions to get it right. Thank you. It's like saying "Stop criticizing the QB. You can't throw the ball any better." Irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 I won't lie. The system is a concern. Under Kelly, the Ducks went 12-0 and reached the national championship game with Darron Thomas at QB, a guy who not only did not get drafted, but who couldn't even get invited to an NFL training camp. IMO, though, this system has been holding Mariota back. I can't prove it, but with his size and arm, I think Mariota would do even better in more of pro-set offense. However, such a system would limit his effectiveness as a runner, which is considerable. It's also true--this year, at least--that Oregon has some very good WRs who are "college open" a lot of the time. I don't think that was necessarily true the previous two years, though. I think the system Mariota plays in is the main reason he is not considered the slam-dunk prospect that Luck was. thats interesting. I hope you are right, he seems like a great kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I've never understood this argument.. Is the point that fans got it wrong so they should lay off the GM for getting it wrong too? I get the frustration with fans acting afterwards like they thought the choice was obvious but that does not excuse poor choices by the men paid millions to get it right. I think that the point is that about 3% of those mid-late round guys pan out at QB. Maybe it's a little higher but nowhere near 10%. Yet everyone is outraged that their team is where 95% of the teams are. The point is that if it were easy everyone would have identified Romo or Brady instead of Kyle Boller & Giovanni Carmazzi. Before the draft everyone on here will love Mariotta & Winston (like evey analyst in the world). 3 years later they will all say that they loved whichever (if any) mid to late round guy that pans out. So every team in the league will have passed on said player multiple times yet all of the posters on here knew it was a mistake. It's easy to recognize Romo & Brady in hindsight but at the time there were hundreds of collegiate prospects that scouts liked more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I've been on Winston's bandwagon since watching him on ESPN's Elite 11 series a few years back. I won't come off it until it completely derails. I don't doubt Winston's talent. In fact I think he's amazingly talented. But he's a few cards short of a full deck and very likely to get in trouble in the pros like he did in college. He makes Manziel look like a choir boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I like how the fact that Kiper went to a Community College comes up so often now. Its not as if there aren't 3,000,000 colleges out there these days, of which 2,990,000 are no better then your local Community College. Degrees are meaning less and less these days as the water gets so thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Kiper was disgusted that Brady Quinn slipped as far as he did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 we definitely need to go on record prior to the draft this year before anyone uses revisionist history to show how smart they were and they should have Whaley's job yadda yadda I put up a poll before the EJ draft to have people pick who they thought would be the best qb out of the bunch because it was fairly obvious that one would be selected by the Bills. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/157670-who-will-be-the-best-qb-out-of-this-class/ 4 people out of 107 said none and I think you will find it interesting who picked whom. This thread got locked before the draft as well so there was no homerism EJ got picked votes. I like how the fact that Kiper went to a Community College comes up so often now. Its not as if there aren't 3,000,000 colleges out there these days, of which 2,990,000 are no better then your local Community College. Degrees are meaning less and less these days as the water gets so thin. I think community colleges are the way to go. 4 year institutions are upwards of 50k a year to attend. Community College is about 5-7k. No reason not to knock out 2 years at a steep discount. Very few jobs does it matter what the name on your diploma is as long as it isn't a diploma factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I put up a poll before the EJ draft to have people pick who they thought would be the best qb out of the bunch because it was fairly obvious that one would be selected by the Bills. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/157670-who-will-be-the-best-qb-out-of-this-class/ 4 people out of 107 said none and I think you will find it interesting who picked whom. This thread got locked before the draft as well so there was no homerism EJ got picked votes. Interesting poll. It would be hard, even at this point, to say that EJ is not still the correct answer. Of course, the poll did not ask "Should the Bills draft EJ in the first round?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 just reach for another QB that can only read half the field. We'll be fine. ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Not really true. Mariota is a fantastic passer and the "system" he's in is the exact same system that Chip Kelly has made successful in the NFL. Mariota is going to be a great pro. Outside of his obvious talents, he's extremely studious and a cerebral player. He loves the game and doesn't bring any baggage, emotional or mechanical. I wouldn't say he'll be a better pro than Luck (Luck and Mariota are 2 of the best players I've ever had the pleasure of watching live) but he'll be a successful pro. IMO Mariota will be like Russell Wilson where he'll play mistake free football and be extremely efficient as opposed to someone who throws for 350 yards per game. great post. Actually the "cerebal" comment on him is a knock. By some of his college critics. i have seen Mariota live at least ten times and I love the kids game. i would be stunned if in the right system he is not a successful NFL QB. Which is the best reason for Buffalo not to be in position to draft him. Like all other rookie QB's in Buffalo and with even this "staff" he would be destined for failure. Andrew Luck he is not but I would take him everyday of the week over the garbage can named Winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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