Gugny Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 to prevent epidemics/pandemics. also to prevent transmission to frail people that could well die or suffer serious morbidity from an infection. i might manifest mild symptoms from the flu while the person i gave it to might die. sound melodramatic? nope. many people die every year from the flu. Not accusing anyone of melodrama. Simply opining that the flu shot is not a guarantee to prevent the flu. Furthermore, it only prevents certain strains of the flu. The epidemic/pandemic could occur with a strain not vaccinated against by the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Not accusing anyone of melodrama. Simply opining that the flu shot is not a guarantee to prevent the flu. Furthermore, it only prevents certain strains of the flu. The epidemic/pandemic could occur with a strain not vaccinated against by the shot. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 http://www.cdc.gov/f...ct/keyfacts.htm Thanks! From the link: These antibodies provide protection against infection with the viruses that are in the vaccine. Influenza vaccine effectiveness (VE) can vary from year to year and among different age and risk groups. Yes. There is still a possibility you could get the flu even if you got vaccinated. The ability of flu vaccine to protect a person depends on various factors, including the age and health status of the person being vaccinated, and also the similarity or “match” between the viruses used to make the vaccine and those circulating in the community. I'm not saying getting the flu shot is a bad thing. I'm just questioning how "unethical" it is by opting to not get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Thanks! From the link: These antibodies provide protection against infection with the viruses that are in the vaccine. Influenza vaccine effectiveness (VE) can vary from year to year and among different age and risk groups. Yes. There is still a possibility you could get the flu even if you got vaccinated. The ability of flu vaccine to protect a person depends on various factors, including the age and health status of the person being vaccinated, and also the similarity or “match” between the viruses used to make the vaccine and those circulating in the community. I'm not saying getting the flu shot is a bad thing. I'm just questioning how "unethical" it is by opting to not get one. from the same article (paraphrasing) "the best way to protect yourself from getting the flu or prevent giving it to others is the flu shot". there is no better way and it's much better than no immunization - about 70% effective on avg http://www.ncbi.nlm....fluenza season.. a yearly shot with minimal side effect risk seems a small price for the benefit of cutting down the occurence of a potentially fatal disease by 70%. hypothetically, let's say there was a vaccine 70% effective at lowering your risk of transmitting or contracting ebola. would you take that? Edited October 16, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Do you know what 30C means in homeopathy? It means your buying really expensive water (distilled if they're honest; more likely tap.) Did you even look at it? It comes in small "grains" that you take over a 4 week period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Did you even look at it? It comes in small "grains" that you take over a 4 week period. Yes, I looked at it. It didn't say it came in small "grains," it said "30C." That has a specific meaning in homeopathy. Part of that meaning is: if it's in solid form, you're getting ripped off badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 from the same article (paraphrasing) "the best way to protect yourself from getting the flu or prevent giving it to others is the flu shot". there is no better way and it's much better than no immunization - about 70% effective on avg http://www.ncbi.nlm....fluenza season.. a yearly shot with minimal side effect risk seems a small price for the benefit of cutting down the occurence of a potentially fatal disease by 70%. hypothetically, let's say there was a vaccine 70% effective at lowering your risk of transmitting or contracting ebola. would you take that? Knowing what I know about the flu shot (for me, personally, it's made no difference; if anything, I've gotten the flu less time without the shot than I have gotten the flu after getting the shot), no - I would not get an ebola vaccine that was touted as being 70% effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 to prevent epidemics/pandemics. also to prevent transmission to frail people that could well die or suffer serious morbidity from an infection. i might manifest mild symptoms from the flu while the person i gave it to might die. sound melodramatic? nope. many people die every year from the flu. I've often heard that with most strains of the flu, a person can carry and spread the disease without actually suffering any of the symptoms. is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Yep, get mine every year, as should most everyone. DCTom and birdog have addressed much of the misinformation in here well enough already, but I'll add this link that I usually refer people to when a lot of this nonsense turns up on my Facebook feed. http://www.scienceba...ccine-efficacy/ But the topic for this post concerns the efficacy of the flu vaccine. I am limiting myself to the use of the vaccine in adults. The flu vaccine is not out best vaccine for at least three reasons. First, every year they have to make an educated guess which influenza strains will be circulating 9 months in the future. The better the guess, the better the protection the vaccine should provide. Some years they choose better than others. But often the match between the vaccine and the disease is not optimal, so vaccine efficacy can be decreased. The vaccine works best when there is a good antigentic match between the vaccine and circulating strain of influenza. Second, response to the vaccine is not 100%. The older and more immunoincompetent are the least likely to develop a good antibody response to the vaccine. In a bit of medical irony, the more likely a patient is to need protection from the vaccine, the less likely they are to get a protective antibody response from the vaccine. Third, vaccination rates are often suboptimal to get benefit in populations, i.e. herd immunity. The elderly will more likely benefit if they are not exposed to influenza at all rather than relying of vaccine mediated protection. It may be more important if those around them, say their health care provider or family, receives the vaccine and as a result does not pass flu on to more vulnerable people. But we rarely (never, ever, never) get vaccination rates at levels for herd immunity to kick in. So it’s a suboptimal vaccine. And that’s a problem. One, because it will make it more difficult to prove efficacy in clinical studies and two, there is a sub group of anti vaccine goofs who seem to require that vaccines either be perfect, with 100% efficacy and 100% safe, or they are not worth taking. The influenza vaccine is not 100% efficacious in preventing disease, but it is as close to 100% safe, and much safer than the disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Yep, get mine every year, as should most everyone. DCTom and birdog have addressed much of the misinformation in here well enough already, but I'll add this link that I usually refer people to when a lot of this nonsense turns up on my Facebook feed. http://www.scienceba...ccine-efficacy/ What about the autism concerns with vaccines such as the flu shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 What about the autism concerns with vaccines such as the flu shot? http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) http://www.cnn.com/2...utism.vaccines/ Did you even read that article? There's no mention of flu shots and adult-onset autism. http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1888718,00.html Edited October 16, 2014 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The flu vaccine is one of my main responsibilities where I work, and I am a self-proclaimed flu vaccine evangelist. Anyone who doesn't get the flu shot for anything other than valid medical reasons is on my **** list. "I never get the flu" or "The flu shot makes me sick" are two of the most annoyingly invalid reasons for not getting the flu shot. My main message to others is that, for most otherwise healthy people (and health care workers), the flu shot really isn't just for you. It's for the people around you who are more susceptible to it. The flu severely debilitates and even kills people. If you can interrupt transmission, it helps everyone. Plus, you can transmit the flu virus to others even before you start feeling sick. Just because it's not 100% effective doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) The flu vaccine is one of my main responsibilities where I work, and I am a self-proclaimed flu vaccine evangelist. Anyone who doesn't get the flu shot for anything other than valid medical reasons is on my **** list. "I never get the flu" or "The flu shot makes me sick" are two of the most annoyingly invalid reasons for not getting the flu shot. My main message to others is that, for most otherwise healthy people (and health care workers), the flu shot really isn't just for you. It's for the people around you who are more susceptible to it. The flu severely debilitates and even kills people. If you can interrupt transmission, it helps everyone. Plus, you can transmit the flu virus to others even before you start feeling sick. Just because it's not 100% effective doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile. not for nothing, but how would you know?? Were you the guy without the suit on at the airport? Edited October 16, 2014 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) The flu vaccine is one of my main responsibilities where I work, and I am a self-proclaimed flu vaccine evangelist. Anyone who doesn't get the flu shot for anything other than valid medical reasons is on my **** list. "I never get the flu" or "The flu shot makes me sick" are two of the most annoyingly invalid reasons for not getting the flu shot. My main message to others is that, for most otherwise healthy people (and health care workers), the flu shot really isn't just for you. It's for the people around you who are more susceptible to it. The flu severely debilitates and even kills people. If you can interrupt transmission, it helps everyone. Plus, you can transmit the flu virus to others even before you start feeling sick. Just because it's not 100% effective doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile. this absolutely right on.... Edited October 16, 2014 by millbank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 not for nothing, but how would you know?? Were you the guy without the suit on at the airport? I'll never tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'll never tell... I knew it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Knowing what I know about the flu shot (for me, personally, it's made no difference; if anything, I've gotten the flu less time without the shot than I have gotten the flu after getting the shot), no - I would not get an ebola vaccine that was touted as being 70% effective. then you are lacking in a basic mammalian instinct: survival. a highly lethal disease threatens your life (yes, it really does in a small but finite and ever increasing way) and everyone's around you and you could decrease that risk by more than 1/2 and you wouldn't do it. this is a case study in the problems involved with controlling preventable infections in this country. policy doesn't matter if people don't recognize common sense measures. Edited October 16, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The flu vaccine contains the three most likely strains the experts think will be prevalent in the winter. Iley decide this in February for the next winter since it takes over 6 months to produce enough. Sometimes nature fools them and they guess wrong. You do not get the flu from a shot, you already had it when getting the vaccine if you come down with it right after the shot. The major strain changes about every 3 years and I would get the flu about every 3 years. Be home a week and lose about 10 lbs each time (all fluid). I was deathly ill during Super Bowl XXV. Started getting the shots about 20 years ago and haven't gotten the flu since. $ is not a concern because at CVS it costs $15 and they give you a coupon good for a week for 20% off at the store. While I was in the hospital with my stroke in July, I got the flu and pneumonia vaccines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hell yeah I got a flu shot. Got it yesterday. Why shouldn't I get free protection against the flu, for free (insurance covers it)? The shot is nothing and it's way better than getting sick. And of course me getting it helps everyone else too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) I used to catch the flu often. The last time, I was 23 years old. I seriously thought I was gonna die. I've gotten the shot every year since. 20 years later and I haven't had flu again...knock on wood. Flu sucks. Edited October 17, 2014 by THE KIKO MONSTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If you've never had the flu, then you are very lucky. Trust me, you never, ever want to get it. Like the Kiko Monster said, you seriously feel like you're going to die. For me, it was three straight days without being able to get off the couch, even a little. People who tell me they're not sure if they ever had the flu...they didn't have the flu. You know when you have the flu. The flu shot doesn't provide complete protection against the flu, but if it lowers your chance even a little, trust me, it's worth it. And if it lowers the chance that your frail elderly (parent, neighbor, friend) or young (newborn, child, niece, nephew) gets it, it's absolutely worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If you've never had the flu, then you are very lucky. Trust me, you never, ever want to get it. Like the Kiko Monster said, you seriously feel like you're going to die. For me, it was three straight days without being able to get off the couch, even a little. In other words, March Madness with the sniffles. Big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If you've never had the flu, then you are very lucky. Trust me, you never, ever want to get it. Like the Kiko Monster said, you seriously feel like you're going to die. For me, it was three straight days without being able to get off the couch, even a little. People who tell me they're not sure if they ever had the flu...they didn't have the flu. You know when you have the flu. The flu shot doesn't provide complete protection against the flu, but if it lowers your chance even a little, trust me, it's worth it. And if it lowers the chance that your frail elderly (parent, neighbor, friend) or young (newborn, child, niece, nephew) gets it, it's absolutely worth it. or even the frail, elderly or young, susceptible stranger… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 In other words, March Madness with the sniffles. Big deal. Ha! Your awesome Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 58 years old never had the flu in my life. Never had a shot. Not going to tamper with whats working. What Jim said, although technically I won't be 58 for 3 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Never had a flu shot, haven't had the flu in years and when I did it was more a 24 hour thing (knock on wood). Also don't use hand sanitizer. My system seems pretty strong. Beer makes you brave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 58 years old never had the flu in my life. Never had a shot. Not going to tamper with whats working. That was me until I was 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 That was me until I was 60. So I can count on falling off the cliff at 60? Before I get a dime off SS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes, and the bigger question for you old geezers like me is are you getting the shingles vaccination? Recommended now at 50 if you had the chicken pox...positive on both for me. Flu piece of cake compared to the shingles. My son had chicken pox when he was about 18 months old. He was born in 1998 right before they started mandatory vaccine (varicella). My daughter born in 2002 has had the varicella (chickenpox) vaccine. Anyway, my son had chickenpox pretty bad. Get this, he's already had a bought of shingles! At 13! Except for the rash, it was uneventful. Children usually do not have any problem dealing with shingles. http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weeklyquestion/a/1108_shingles.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Last year I got the flu right after Christmas. After a week I realized it was more than a bad cold and went to the doctor, who diagnosed it as H1N1, AKA Swine Flu. Man, I was sick for two and a half weeks. If I had fluid in my lungs, I would have been hospitalized. It sucks being that sick and it also sucks that our time off at work is all "PTO". I usually do not get sick, so getting the flu cost me a week's vacation as far as I was concerned! I also do not consider being bedridden and contagious "personal time off". If I could have made it to work, I was contagious for over a week. I could have wiped out the call center! Does anyone else get the flu shot? I got the shot yesterday and no side effects. Flu shots are BS, don't have the virus that is current and are full of crap to make people sick, which half the people who get them get sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The flu vaccine contains the three most likely strains the experts think will be prevalent in the winter. Iley decide this in February for the next winter since it takes over 6 months to produce enough. Sometimes nature fools them and they guess wrong. You do not get the flu from a shot, you already had it when getting the vaccine if you come down with it right after the shot. The major strain changes about every 3 years and I would get the flu about every 3 years. Be home a week and lose about 10 lbs each time (all fluid). I was deathly ill during Super Bowl XXV. Started getting the shots about 20 years ago and haven't gotten the flu since. $ is not a concern because at CVS it costs $15 and they give you a coupon good for a week for 20% off at the store. While I was in the hospital with my stroke in July, I got the flu and pneumonia vaccines. Why is it flu is more common in the winter? Toughts? Guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Why is it flu is more common in the winter? Toughts? Guess? Could be humidity. It survives best at low humidity and at very high humidity. "Environmental engineers have shown for the first time the relationship between the influenza A virus viability in human mucus and humidity over a large range of relative humidities, from 17 percent to 100 percent." "...The researchers found humidity could explain the seasonality of influenza by controlling the ability of viruses to remain infectious while they are in droplets or aerosols. The viruses survived best at low humidity, such as those found indoors in the winter, and at extremely high humidity. Humidity affects the composition of the fluid, namely the concentrations of salts and proteins in respiratory droplets, and this affects the survival rates of the flu virus." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121204162125.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Flu shots are BS, don't have the virus that is current and are full of crap to make people sick, which half the people who get them get sick. That's a very uninformed response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Even if there isn't a match between what strains they decide to put in the vaccine and the circulating strain during that particular season, you are still going to be offered some level of cross protection from the circulating antibodies generated in response to the immunization. Flu related deaths in the US each year range from <10,000 to near 50,000, and worldwide influenza kills hundreds of thousands each and every year....but Ebola!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I had a flu shot last Thursday for the 2nd time ever. My new job (working for a hospital) requires it. By Sunday night I came down with something and just today I'm finally starting to feel better. My wife has not had any signs of catching what I have (and she thinks it's ebola). I'm not ready to pin this one on the shot, but I can see why people would think that. Mine was just a minor annoyance though, there's no way this is the flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Flu shots are BS, don't have the virus that is current and are full of crap to make people sick, which half the people who get them get sick. Well, there is definitely something BS about this. Very typical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Well, there is definitely something BS about this. Very typical. honestly, a cross section of the people i work with would be less frustrating than this. hopefully, this is not a representative sample. if it is, a bills game in buffalo in dec is likely a very good place to catch the flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 honestly, a cross section of the people i work with would be less frustrating than this. hopefully, this is not a representative sample. if it is, a bills game in buffalo in dec is likely a very good place to catch the flu. Through the years they have been giving the shot, have they seen the reported cases of flu go drastically down? Same with severe complications and death from influenza. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Through the years they have been giving the shot, have they seen the reported cases of flu go drastically down? Same with severe complications and death from influenza. ?? in many observational studies, yes. if you're really interested this paper, while not particularlyflattering to the vaccine, does a nice job of summarizing the studies. http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=486407 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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