A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[xsoldier54]

Nice post, but I can't buy into #6. Stars are plentiful in the NFL and you can count on one hand the number of stars selected by their team that cost two #1s. Look at 2011 draft, 12 of top 16 players selected have gone to the Pro Bowl. The teams that traded up struck out. "There were only four first-round trades in 2011. The Jacksonville Jaguars suffered the most. They gave up a second-rounder to move up six spots to acquire Blaine Gabbert, who washed out as a starter and was dumped in a trade to the 49ers this offseason. Missing out on two high draft choices in the rich 2011 draft set back a franchise that heading into last year had one of the thinnest rosters in terms of talent.

 

The Kansas City Chiefs moved up six spots in the first round to select wide receiver Jon Baldwin in 2011. That didn't work out for the Chiefs, and they ended up dumping him to San Francisco last year for equally disappointing wide receiver A.J. Jenkins.

Toward the bottom of the first round in 2011, the New Orleans Saints gave away a 2012 first-rounder to move up for running back Mark Ingram. The Saints recently decided not to pick up Ingram's fifth-year option."

http://espn.go.com/n...raft-worth-risk

Not saying Sammy is a bust, but two #1s is huge for a team still rebuilding (for over a decade!) He needs to be the best WR in football, not just a PB selection to justify two #1s! I hope I eat my words, but I still have a hard time with the logic of trading away the 2015 #1 pick. I really hope it turns out to be north of #30! Nice win today, Go Bills!

So even if Watkins ends up making plays like he did today for the rest of the season and helps lead the Bills to the playoffs, you still think it's a bad deal? Not me, I'll take that for sure. They needed playmakers on offense and he was the best one available. I say it's worth the gamble when you haven't made the playoffs in as long as the Bills.

[DrDawkinstein]

@bill in NYC. Not too sure about Gilmore having a decent game. I thought the Tate TD was one of his worst moments. A guy runs a curl to the end zone and Gilmore is 3 yards from him. He continues to frustrate me.

 

Held Megatron to 0 catches before he caught one in front of McKelvin and got knocked out of the game.

[HeHateMe]

-Spiller needs to run off tackle or used in the passing game with half back route patterns from the backfield or in the slot.

 

-Watkins made some great plays throughout and that one late in the game where he tipped the ball was unreal.

 

-Orton started slow but made a lot of plays as the game went on... and look a 300 yard passing day and a win. He needed to step up and deliver some passes and he did just that.

 

-Detroit's kicker is terribad... Carpenter is clutch.

 

---- Big win on the road.. they had some key guys hurt but so did we so that evens out. Needed this win after last week's EJ debacle.

[John Adams]

CJ is a third down back. That's what he is. And he's a really good 3rd down back at that. Dangerous on kick returns. Sadly he has not shown much to merit a lot of talk as a 1st and 2nd down back. I want to like him and I know he has big games left in him, but I bet he's not a Bill next year.

 

Did you see his "block" on the near safety of Orton. Oofah.

 

The good news is that RBs can be found on the scrap heap.

 

I wanted to strangle the camera man for showing EJ after every good Orton throw. EJ may have a future in this league and with this team. His biggest weakness is vision but he might develop that over time. Clearly he needs a bunch of time.

 

I'd like to see the Watkins late 4th quarter reception again. I thought it got tipped at the line. On replay they didn't show it leaving Orton's hands so I couldn't tell.

 

I feel like I'm watching the next Larry Fitzgerald out there.

Edited October 6, 2014 by John Adams

[BuffaninATL]

Exactly. Orton did nothing better or worse than Ej. The ol needs work. Sammy is going to be worth way more than what we gave up. Two stellar defenses battled, one team had a horrible kicker, we didn't and we frigging won!!!!

 

huh? ....what game did you watch today ? ......

[Boatdrinks]

 

 

Held Megatron to 0 catches before he caught one in front of McKelvin and got knocked out of the game.

 

I think anyone could tell megatron was a shadow of himself today , not exactly a barometer of good CB play . The guy was playing on one leg

[JohnC]

Excellent post Bill, as usual.

 

Dareus was a force in this game. Suh was the best defender on the field and Dareus was right behind him. He is really having a tremendous year. Our defense, especially the DL, has been stellar. Gilmore is a good DB who is going to get better. I don't understand the negativity directed toward him. NFL football is deliberately designed for offense, especially advantaging the passing game. Under those distorted conditions Gilmore and McKelvin are playing well.

 

Spiller up the gut is ugly and ineffective. Jackson up the gut is a lesson on how to run. Don't get flustered with Spiller's lack of running discipline. He will make up for his lack of running discipline with big impactful plays. That screen pass to him in space in which he made a critical first down at the end of the game was important. Trust me on this issue. Please be patient with him and you will be rewarded.

 

Our OL was simply overwhelmed by Detroit's DL. Our guard play is grotesque. I don't know what not what the remedy is but it helps when a qb knows how to quickly get rid of the ball and where to go with it.

 

Watkins is a special talent. He is worth the added xpenditure. He has great hands!

 

One of the biggest plays of the game was the long pass to Goodwin. I wish we would take more shots down the field.

 

As the game advanced you can see Orton's rust erode. At the end of the game he was in rhythm and it was refreshing to watch. He isn'tgreat but he knows what he is doing and he is relatively accurate. He should be gettimg more accurate as he gets more playubg time. You can see that the receivers were rejuvenated with his presence.

 

NFL games are getting to be almost unwatchable with the excess of penalty calls. The lack of continuity and flow due to the penalties is getting me very aggravated.

Edited October 6, 2014 by JohnC

[DrDawkinstein]

I think anyone could tell megatron was a shadow of himself today , not exactly a barometer of good CB play . The guy was playing on one leg

 

True enough.

[filthymcnasty08]

CJ is a third down back. That's what he is. And he's a really good 3rd down back at that. Dangerous on kick returns. Sadly he has not shown much to merit a lot of talk as a 1st and 2nd down back. I want to like him and I know he has big games left in him, but I bet he's not a Bill next year.

 

Did you see his "block" on the near safety of Orton. Oofah.

 

The good news is that RBs can be found on the scrap heap.

 

I wanted to strangle the camera man for showing EJ after every good Orton throw. EJ may have a future in this league and with this team. His biggest weakness is vision but he might develop that over time. Clearly he needs a bunch of time.

 

I'd like to see the Watkins late 4th quarter reception again. I thought it got tipped at the line. On replay they didn't show it leaving Orton's hands so I couldn't tell.

 

I feel like I'm watching the next Larry Fitzgerald out there.

 

You are not alone.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Did you forget he was playing against the number one defense in the NFL and beat them at home? Was he perfect? No, but he absolutely made the throws when he needed to and enabled the playmakers like Watkins to make plays. He did a good job and there is absolutely zero chance the Bills win this game with E. J. Manuel at QB. I repeat, absolutely zero chance.

I imagine having EJ in there would have made at least two of those Detroit FGs good, I'm sure you're on to something.

 

And Watkins' biggest play -- one king hell of a grab on the kind of pass he didn't haul in last week.

 

Narratives are fun though. Enjoy it.

[justnzane]

Sorry for the big pic here

 

http://tshirtism.com...wartz-1696.jpeg

Edited October 6, 2014 by justnzane

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

So even if Watkins ends up making plays like he did today for the rest of the season and helps lead the Bills to the playoffs, you still think it's a bad deal? Not me, I'll take that for sure. They needed playmakers on offense and he was the best one available. I say it's worth the gamble when you haven't made the playoffs in as long as the Bills.

Nope. Sorry, in my opinion not even close. Even if we do make the playoffs, there are much better teams top to bottom that will prevent us from winning the GD Super Bowl. With our OL we don't go anywhere. We won because their kicker can't kick and ours can, along with a studly performance from the D. Watkins did help, and may be a special talent, but he isn't going to get us there on his own. We need a couple (few?) more key pieces and losing our 2015 #1 isn't going to help us win the big game...

[KOKBILLS]

Agree about CJ - just awful. He tries to bounce everything outside. Glad they played Fred more today, and hope he can be ready for next week.

 

Can you blame him? He's averaging about -1 inside the tackles...He's just brutal on inside runs...It's not his game...

[Deranged Rhino]

Nope. Sorry, in my opinion not even close. Even if we do make the playoffs, there are much better teams top to bottom that will prevent us from winning the GD Super Bowl. With our OL we don't go anywhere. We won because their kicker can't kick and ours can, along with a studly performance from the D. Watkins did help, and may be a special talent, but he isn't going to get us there on his own. We need a couple (few?) more key pieces and losing our 2015 #1 isn't going to help us win the big game...

 

Baby steps.

[PolishDave]

Ugly win but a win.

 

Can't believe that defense got that much pressure without Kyle Williams and without blitzing. Impressive. Mario needs to play better though considering how much money he is being paid.

 

If it was wintertime, I would want to throw snowballs at Hackett the next time they try to run spiller between the tackles.

 

Thank god their kicker sucks.

[Dennis in NC]

Exactly. Orton did nothing better or worse than Ej. The ol needs work. Sammy is going to be worth way more than what we gave up. Two stellar defenses battled, one team had a horrible kicker, we didn't and we frigging won!!!!

No, Kyle Orton did several things better than EJ. Mostly the decisive throws, when EJ would most likely hesitate and miss the moment.

 

I like EJ, but he is not ready to be a starting QB.

[Kelly the Dog]

Ugly win but a win.

 

Can't believe that defense got that much pressure without Kyle Williams and without blitzing. Impressive. Mario needs to play better though considering how much money he is being paid.

 

I think Mario was amazing. Like Hughes and Dareus, virtually every play they pushed their man back into the pocket. Mario had an excellent game.

[Deranged Rhino]

I think Mario was amazing. Like Hughes and Dareus, virtually every play they pushed their man back into the pocket. Mario had an excellent game.

 

From a defensive standpoint, almost to a player, it was a clinic. A literal defensive clinic. They could cut up that game film and make tutorials for how to play on the defensive line of that game.

[boyst]

Both sides played amazing defense with great plays that make me love the NFL.

[purple haze]

As far as #7

To be fair, EJ has dropped one or two in there like that as well. Maybe overly defensive of the kid but lets not give up on him yet.

 

Yes he has. He will get his chance again. Hopefully next off-season after Orton helps get us to the playoffs this season.

[Deranged Rhino]

Both sides played amazing defense with great plays that make me love the NFL.

 

It's true, Detroit's line played tremendously as well, but they had an unfair advantage. They got to play against Pears.

[Kelly the Dog]

From a defensive standpoint, almost to a player, it was a clinic. A literal defensive clinic. They could cut up that game film and make tutorials for how to play on the defensive line of that game.

You can't say you can always do this. But Bills fans, myself, and fans everywhere constantly say their teams should blitz more. We never blitzed and it was brilliant and we got seven sacks and consistent tremendous pressure all day. How anyone can say Mario didnt have a good game is criminal. That entire DL was incredible all day.

[Fan in Alaska]

What I liked best about Orton, today, was how he took charge on the field. It was clear that he was

in control. His experienced showed through.

 

Here is an example.

 

I don't like incomplete passes, but...

 

At one point in the game, he rolled out to his right. Apparently there was nobody open and he had a couple

of Lions in hot pursuit. Smartly, he threw the ball at the feet of FB Frank Summers. Summers was only about

10 yards in front of him, back to Orton, protecting the QB. I remember thinking, what would EJ had done in the

same situation?

 

I am quite positive that he would have either stood there, got hit and possible fumbled the ball, or he would have

thrown the ball anyway, resulting in an interception. I highly doubt we would have seen him do the smart thing and

do what Orton did.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Fan in Alaska

[PolishDave]

How anyone can say Mario didnt have a good game is criminal.

Nobody said he didn't have a good game. I said he needs to play better based on his salary. He is paid 2x as much as Kyle Williams. 3x as much as Darius. and 8x more than hughes. He got one sack today. Yes he played good. He needs to be a difference ,maker though in games where it matters. That is all I am saying. He is not being a difference maker in these games. I am glad he is on this team. I just want him to play at a level commensurate with his pay compared to the guys he plays alongside of.

[flmike]

Great win today!

 

- Johnson was on the field only a decoy and sadly it worked a few times.

 

- I was amazed at how quickly Orton realized what he needed to do. I'm convinced he ignored the calls on the sideline numerous times

 

- Boy that Lions kicker was bad. Hope he finds fulfillment in life some day. He has to be disappointed that it didn't work out as an NFL kicker.

 

- Teams win games in many different ways. Got a few breaks today for sure. Stole a game from a good team (when they find a kicker)

 

- Lions OL must be even worse than ours

[simpleman]

What I liked best about Orton, today, was how he took charge on the field. It was clear that he was

in control. His experienced showed through.

 

Here is an example.

 

I don't like incomplete passes, but...

 

At one point in the game, he rolled out to his right. Apparently there was nobody open and he had a couple

of Lions in hot pursuit. Smartly, he threw the ball at the feet of FB Frank Summers. Summers was only about

10 yards in front of him, back to Orton, protecting the QB. I remember thinking, what would EJ had done in the

same situation?

 

I am quite positive that he would have either stood there, got hit and possible fumbled the ball, or he would have

thrown the ball anyway, resulting in an interception. I highly doubt we would have seen him do the smart thing and

do what Orton did.

 

I too saw that pass to the feet and thought, now that is one smart QB, and I too thought EJ probably would have turned that situation into a crisis by either getting a penalty, getting sacked for a loss or getting intercepted. I was unsure of Orton till then, after that I was confident of his football smarts, even though I'm still not so sure of his accuracy.

Edited October 6, 2014 by simpleman

[BillsVet]

That was a great pass. EJ has made that same pass though. The difference of the veteran QB taking control of the game is the difference between the two.

 

I'm going to go ahead and disagree because it's not about being able to make the throw. All NFL QB's can, but can they do it when the game's on the line on 3rd down? Manuel's inconsistency rears its head much more often and the likelihood he'd have nailed the throw to Goodwin is not high.

 

The fact EJ isn't a veteran is not why Marrone pulled him. It's because he held the team back in terms of offensive play-calling and his inability to make plays, i.e. throws downfield.

 

Excellent win. Looking forward to the NE game.

[simpleman]

Can you blame him? He's averaging about -1 inside the tackles...He's just brutal on inside runs...It's not his game...

 

Don't blame CJ for this, blame Hackett. Using CJ as a power back is like a carpenter using pliers to pound in nails. Hackett does not know how to use his tools properly. And he refuses to admit it and try to learn how.

[bills7834]

Yeah, I don't know how he does it. Seriously.

 

I truly hope to see this football team make the playoffs. If they do, I'm coming up!

I think he did it the opposite of Bruce Smith. Bruce got lighter as he aged while Fred seems to have bulked up and becoming more of a power back.

[Chuck Schick]

Nope. Sorry, in my opinion not even close. Even if we do make the playoffs, there are much better teams top to bottom that will prevent us from winning the GD Super Bowl. With our OL we don't go anywhere. We won because their kicker can't kick and ours can, along with a studly performance from the D. Watkins did help, and may be a special talent, but he isn't going to get us there on his own. We need a couple (few?) more key pieces and losing our 2015 #1 isn't going to help us win the big game...

Very peculiar time to question a trade that was made 5 months ago.

[Deranged Rhino]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, or I missed it if it was, Spikes played half that game with one arm. He got dinged up and didn't leave the field, you could see how much pain he was in.

 

Stud.

[Georgia Bill]

Nobody said he didn't have a good game. I said he needs to play better based on his salary. He is paid 2x as much as Kyle Williams. 3x as much as Darius. and 8x more than hughes. He got one sack today. Yes he played good. He needs to be a difference ,maker though in games where it matters. That is all I am saying. He is not being a difference maker in these games. I am glad he is on this team. I just want him to play at a level commensurate with his pay compared to the guys he plays alongside of.

It's a team sport, and Mario makes Williams and Darius that much better. As a unit they played incredibly well, I see nothing to complain about. Just because someone is paid 2x or 3x someone else does not mean you can expect them to "play" 2x or 3x better. They are really jelling as a group and I'm loving what Schwartz is doing..

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

What happened to your avatar?

Rob's always been a huge Napoleon Dynamite fan.

[BuffaninATL]

Apparently the logic is..

1) The Bills won this game with Orton at QB

2) The Bills have won games in the past with EJ at QB

3) Therefore, the Bills would have won this game with EJ at QB

I don't get it, but that seems to be the argument people are making.

 

With all due respect, I don't think your interpretation of the logic here is logical at all; this game is a one game sample size; yes, the Bills won with Orton at QB today; #2 is a non sequitur and not I'm not sure #3 is what anyone is saying. On the contrary, the Bills IMHO would never have won this game if they let EJ throw 43 passes.

[BuffaninATL]

What I liked best about Orton, today, was how he took charge on the field. It was clear that he was

in control. His experienced showed through.

 

Here is an example.

 

I don't like incomplete passes, but...

 

At one point in the game, he rolled out to his right. Apparently there was nobody open and he had a couple

of Lions in hot pursuit. Smartly, he threw the ball at the feet of FB Frank Summers. Summers was only about

10 yards in front of him, back to Orton, protecting the QB. I remember thinking, what would EJ had done in the

same situation?

 

I am quite positive that he would have either stood there, got hit and possible fumbled the ball, or he would have

thrown the ball anyway, resulting in an interception. I highly doubt we would have seen him do the smart thing and

do what Orton did.

 

great point = I took a mental note of that play and thought exactly the same thing; WWEJHD ?? (what would EJ have done....)

 

Nobody said he didn't have a good game. I said he needs to play better based on his salary. He is paid 2x as much as Kyle Williams. 3x as much as Darius. and 8x more than hughes. He got one sack today. Yes he played good. He needs to be a difference ,maker though in games where it matters. That is all I am saying. He is not being a difference maker in these games. I am glad he is on this team. I just want him to play at a level commensurate with his pay compared to the guys he plays alongside of.

 

I really think you are overemphasizing the $$ aspect of it; D line play doesn't always fit the script like that

 

Excellent post Bill, as usual.

 

Dareus was a force in this game. Suh was the best defender on the field and Dareus was right behind him. He is really having a tremendous year. Our defense, especially the DL, has been stellar. Gilmore is a good DB who is going to get better. I don't understand the negativity directed toward him. NFL football is deliberately designed for offense, especially advantaging the passing game. Under those distorted conditions Gilmore and McKelvin are playing well.

 

Spiller up the gut is ugly and ineffective. Jackson up the gut is a lesson on how to run. Don't get flustered with Spiller's lack of running discipline. He will make up for his lack of running discipline with big impactful plays. That screen pass to him in space in which he made a critical first down at the end of the game was important. Trust me on this issue. Please be patient with him and you will be rewarded.

 

Our OL was simply overwhelmed by Detroit's DL. Our guard play is grotesque. I don't know what not what the remedy is but it helps when a qb knows how to quickly get rid of the ball and where to go with it.

 

Watkins is a special talent. He is worth the added xpenditure. He has great hands!

 

One of the biggest plays of the game was the long pass to Goodwin. I wish we would take more shots down the field.

 

As the game advanced you can see Orton's rust erode. At the end of the game he was in rhythm and it was refreshing to watch. He isn'tgreat but he knows what he is doing and he is relatively accurate. He should be gettimg more accurate as he gets more playubg time. You can see that the receivers were rejuvenated with his presence.

 

NFL games are getting to be almost unwatchable with the excess of penalty calls. The lack of continuity and flow due to the penalties is getting me very aggravated.

 

JohnC - I'm asking this question with sincerity; given our horrible guard play, is it fair to expect the coaches to dial up screen passes to CJ with guards who cannot get out in front/in space? I am all for finding ways to get CJ the ball in space and it seems to all of us coaches here on TSW want Hackett to do something smart with CJ. Do we consider yanking Pears? Has Urbik fallen as far as he appears to have? Can you imagine our play calling and offensive results if we had mobile who were stout at the point of attack? What's the consensus on Cyril to date? I give Marrone credit, he is not unwilling to make changes in the name of constant improvement.

[hondo in seattle]

A lot of people are dumping on CJ this year.

 

How is it that Chan Gailey could coax 1200 rushing yards at 6.0 yards per carry out of CJ? The same Chan we were all so happy to see sent packing?

 

CJ is not an all-purpose running back. He's not a strong runner, not a great blocker and doesn't have great vision. But he has speed and can be very elusive once he gets going. Chan knew how to take advantage of his skills. Hackett & Marrone clearly do not.

 

But we won anyway because our D was strong and when the running game faltered, our passing game made the difference for the first time in a long time. That's something worth celebrating.

[BuffaninATL]

I said he was no better and no worse. I didn't mean to imply EJ would have had the same outcome. I meant that this game was won by defense and a much better kicker, and they won without regard to who was behind center . I brought up Ej because I don't want to hear fans say that Orton is the answer.

I said he was no better and no worse. I didn't mean to imply EJ would have had the same outcome. I meant that this game was won by defense and a much better kicker, and they won without regard to who was behind center . I brought up Ej because I don't want to hear fans say that Orton is the answer.

 

you said it again and you are wrong - again. Orton was demonstrably better than EJ and was nowhere near as inept as the EJ of weeks 3-4. To say the Bills won without regard to who was behind center is also a huge stretch. This was a total team win - passing offense, D, and ST; credit to the Lions, we had no run game to speak of.

 

great point = I took a mental note of that play and thought exactly the same thing; WWEJHD ?? (what would EJ have done....)

 

 

 

I really think you are overemphasizing the $$ aspect of it; D line play doesn't always fit the script like that

 

 

 

JohnC - I'm asking this question with sincerity; given our horrible guard play, is it fair to expect the coaches to dial up screen passes to CJ with guards who cannot get out in front/in space? I am all for finding ways to get CJ the ball in space and it seems to all of us coaches here on TSW want Hackett to do something smart with CJ. Do we consider yanking Pears? Has Urbik fallen as far as he appears to have? Can you imagine our play calling and offensive results if we had mobile GUARDS who were stout at the point of attack? What's the consensus on Cyril to date? I give Marrone credit, he is not unwilling to make changes in the name of constant improvement.

[Agent 91]

As far as #7

To be fair, EJ has dropped one or two in there like that as well. Maybe overly defensive of the kid but lets not give up on him yet.

 

The one that should have been a TD to Watkins, and the Chandler over the shoulder throw?

[Rocky Landing]

Just finished watching the game (had a busy day), so it just ended for me. As exciting as a defensive game gets.

 

Regarding the (what seems to me) mystifying EJ vs. Orton debate: How anyone could have watched this season's five games and think that they are even remotely equal is beyond me. Orton has a better arm, is more accurate, more decisive, can throw deep, sees the field, sees his open receivers,... what's left? I suppose EJ can scramble/run better, although I cringed every time he did.

 

Watkins. Wow.

 

I believe that Fred Jackson might be my all-time favorite Bill. He was a leader today, and every game. He makes me proud to be a Bills fan.

 

Why does Hackett EVER have Spiller run up the middle?

 

I have more hope for the season now, than I have all year.

[Agent 91]

Just finished watching the game (had a busy day), so it just ended for me. As exciting as a defensive game gets.

 

Regarding the (what seems to me) mystifying EJ vs. Orton debate: How anyone could have watched this season's five games and think that they are even remotely equal is beyond me. Orton has a better arm, is more accurate, more decisive, can throw deep, sees the field, sees his open receivers,... what's left? I suppose EJ can scramble/run better, although I cringed every time he did.

 

Watkins. Wow.

 

I believe that Fred Jackson might be my all-time favorite Bill. He was a leader today, and every game. He makes me proud to be a Bills fan.

 

Why does Hackett EVER have Spiller run up the middle?

 

I have more hope for the season now, than I have all year.

 

Because he wanted CJ to meet Suh and Fairly often

 

Just finished watching the game (had a busy day), so it just ended for me. As exciting as a defensive game gets.

 

Regarding the (what seems to me) mystifying EJ vs. Orton debate: How anyone could have watched this season's five games and think that they are even remotely equal is beyond me. Orton has a better arm, is more accurate, more decisive, can throw deep, sees the field, sees his open receivers,... what's left? I suppose EJ can scramble/run better, although I cringed every time he did.

 

Watkins. Wow.

 

I believe that Fred Jackson might be my all-time favorite Bill. He was a leader today, and every game. He makes me proud to be a Bills fan.

 

Why does Hackett EVER have Spiller run up the middle?

 

I have more hope for the season now, than I have all year.

 

Because he wanted CJ to meet Suh and Fairley often