A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3. Isn't there a way to use Jackson and Spiller together using motion to get the match you want? Spiller vs a linebacker in space

 

 

Maybe not together but Spiller needs to be in motion at all times to get into open space

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

As far as #7

To be fair, EJ has dropped one or two in there like that as well. Maybe overly defensive of the kid but lets not give up on him yet.

 

Today wasn't about ej. Today was about Marrone putting his nuts on the chopping block and for whatever reason (mostly a high school bad kicking performance) he gets to be right. And I'm glad.... Not for any other reason than 3-2.

 

Whether I agree or not he gets to be right and we get to be happy. They won!!!

[Chandler#81]

Nice post, Bill.

 

My thoughts on the game, in no particular order.

 

 

10] Marrone, Orton, Spikes, Fred, etc, kept the team focused after being down 14-0 on the road and the team responded well. That may have been the best and most lastly element of this game.

 

 

 

12] Hackett was frustrating for sure, but the run, run, run strategy got some great plays like the TD to Gragg. We had 350 yards. We won the game. I was frustrated to no end, too. But they ultimately did it.

 

10) Marrone & Manuel's record when trailing by 10 pts or more: 0-10.

Marrone & Orton? 1-0

 

11) did you and many others here miss the 49 PASS ATTEMPTS??

[Deranged Rhino]

I'll add another point I neglected to point out:

 

The way this team came together, down 14 on the road to the #1 (previously) ranked defense, could very well be a turning point in this season. Freddy rallied the team, I'd love to hear a mic'd up version of what he said, and the defense did more than their share. We've all commented how imposing this team is and how much they seem to love contact -- well now we know they're mentally tough too. This is a team that can make some noise in a deflated division. It made me proud to be a Bills fan to see them rally together today.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Gray Beard]

Anyone that says that Orton was "no better than EJ" is really trying too hard to force-twist reality. I was really enjoying this thread until someone tried to sneak that into the conversation.

Apparently the logic is..

1) The Bills won this game with Orton at QB

2) The Bills have won games in the past with EJ at QB

3) Therefore, the Bills would have won this game with EJ at QB

I don't get it, but that seems to be the argument people are making.

[Rob's House]

Anyone that says that Orton was "no better than EJ" is really trying too hard to force-twist reality. I was really enjoying this thread until someone tried to sneak that into the conversation.

 

Agreed. That talk should be confined to a separate thread or left til tomorrow. This was the most thrilling Bills win in a while. Let's enjoy it.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Agreed. That talk should be confined to a separate thread or left til tomorrow. This was the most thrilling Bills win in a while. Let's enjoy it.

 

What happened to your avatar?

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

1) Gotta start with a shout out to Carpenter. That kick was miraculous! Just freaking great!!!!! And it had a few yards left!

 

2) In the middle of the 3rd quarter, Watkins was mauled by the defender. The flag was tossed by the official who was RIGHT THERE and picked up. Is that how this works? The league should look into this. I HATE complaining about calls, but this was simply outrageous. Sadly, more to come on this topic.

 

3) Marcel Dareus played the game of his life. On his sack for a forced fumble, he was clearly held. Today, this kid was every single thing we wanted him to be in every way.

 

4) Here is the deal wrt Pears. He is an average Right Tackle. He doesn't suck at RT. He has no business playing Guard. NONE! But he retaliated on the late hit by Fairley, and he is a tough guy. I respect him for fighting for his teammates.

 

5) Help on the way,

I know only this;

I've got you today

Don't fly away.....

'cause I love what I love

and I want it that way.

 

6) Watkins was just SO good today, I am going to re-evaluate the trade, which I was totally against.

 

7) Orton? I need more time to sort out what he does. We probably all do. But his pass to Goodwin was each and every bit as good as it gets, no?

 

8) Woods was blocking his ass off today. He threw a block on a run by FJ in the 3rd quarter that MADE the play.

 

9) Schwartz was another person who confused me today. At the end of the first qtr., they rushed only 3 on 3rd and 8 and gave up a td. I KNOW that Pettine would have applied more pressure. That said, his defensive calls overall were VERY good imo. Let's face it, the defense kept us in the game, so I am going to give credit and thanks.

 

10) Have I blasted Gilmore when I saw fit to do so? Certainly. Well, the pass interference call against him in the 2nd quarter was absolute BS!!!!! If anything, Johnson hit him in his facemask. The truth is that he played a decent game today and this football team needs him to step up. I am thrilled to see him play well.

 

11) OK, I have a confession to make. I watched the game today in a crowded place. After one of Marcel's brutal sacks I yelled, "He's my son!" People were looking at me and the replay and gave me some room and strange looks. Yeah, I am a Bills fan.

 

12) Sorry, I am pissed at the fact that we had 2 delay penalties in the first quarter. We are not a good enough team to do this and win on a consistent basis.

 

13) Spiller was awful today. He can't see a hole. He dances and gains 2, if that.

 

14) Thank you Jerry Hughes for giving it your all on every play!!!!! Seriously, you go!!!

 

15) There is nothing that grabs me more than when the Bills fight back. Not one f*&^%$g thing. It makes them better people, better players, and it is what WE deserve as fans.

 

16) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

17) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good post. I think your a little soft on Pears though. Average at OT is generous...And a bit hard on Schwartz. D stole this one. His schemes are very good and I don't think he completely trusts his secondary, or at least I don't think he should...Orton is a big step forward from EJ. No way we win this game with Manuel at QB. We need our OL to begin to gel and the only way that happens is for two and perhaps three rookies to start and begin to evolve. Replacements for Williams, Pears and anyone at RG are as big a need as it was after last season. I really like Watkins as a #1 pick, but I haven't seen much to justify giving up two #1s for him. Two #1s for anyone is huge unless you have the luxury of drafting to fill a single big need. We have several still to fill and the OL weakness should be obvious to everyone.

[MClem06]

I totally disagree with the post that orton did nothing different than EJ.... Are u freaking blind? See u not watching the deep pass to Goodwin that was placed perfectly in between the two defenders ? No way EJ makes it anywhere near him that play.

[Kelly the Dog]

I totally disagree with the post that orton did nothing different than EJ.... Are u freaking blind? See u not watching the deep pass to Goodwin that was placed perfectly in between the two defenders ? No way EJ makes it anywhere near him that play.

That was a great pass. EJ has made that same pass though. The difference of the veteran QB taking control of the game is the difference between the two.

[Rob's House]

 

 

What happened to your avatar?

 

I was inspired to make a change.

[Chandler#81]

Long time lurker. First time poster.

 

I just wanted to say that the offense looked different today. You can usually see Woods look dejected after a bad pass, but as some of you folks have noted, he was playing his butt off. I like the screen looks from Orton to Fred. Remember when Spiller was used like this a lot? I think this needs to be used more.

 

Overall, I think the team was fired up for the change at QB and it was reflected today.

 

Go Bills!

 

Welcome to the Board! It's October and we're in 1st Place in the AFCE & NFCC! Definitely looks different!

[Deranged Rhino]

I was inspired to make a change.

 

:beer:

[filthymcnasty08]

Apparently the logic is..

1) The Bills won this game with Orton at QB

2) The Bills have won games in the past with EJ at QB

3) Therefore, the Bills would have won this game with EJ at QB

I don't get it, but that seems to be the argument people are making.

 

No matter how many times it's flogged around for the next 7 days, that dog just won't hunt!

[The Fredonia Curse]

I give a ton of credit to Marrone for throwing Carpenter out there for the 58 yarder. It was an easy call to make but I feel like some of the last few coaches (jauron, gailey) would've sent the punt team out and played for OT... I loved every second of it. Great game all around.

 

I just moved to a new city and spent $80 on shots for all the people around me at the Bills bar when that kick went through. Gonna regret that tomorrow.

 

Huge game next week but I'm extremely confident. Go bills!!!!

[The Dean]

 

11) OK, I have a confession to make. I watched the game today in a crowded place. After one of Marcel's brutal sacks I yelled, "He's my son!" People were looking at me and the replay and gave me some room and strange looks. Yeah, I am a Bills fan.

 

 

Outstanding, Bill.

[stony]

Please don't extend spiller the guy just doesn't get it. We better make RB #1 Priority next year.

 

It be nice for him to have a few plays where juking a LB or DT in the backfield is not a prerequisite.

 

I don't think he played well today, but our run-blocking hasn't been very good this year. Most of the yardage has been gained on big chuck plays, not via consistent 4-8 yard pops. Spiller in space and on misdirection plays are awesome, maybe our coaching staff will put on some of the Gailey film and take note.

Edited October 5, 2014 by stony

[Kelly the Dog]

 

11) did you and many others here miss the 49 PASS ATTEMPTS??

Last week or this week? Pretty much everyone says there were ten plays to be made last week by EJ that he didn't make because he's inaccurate. If Orton had the same plays, logically, we would have won easily. How do you blame the OC for ten wide open plays that an average QB can make?

 

They won this week, and couldn't run.

[Deranged Rhino]

Last week or this week? Pretty much everyone says there were ten plays to be made last week by EJ that he didn't make because he's inaccurate. If Orton had the same plays, logically, we would have won easily. How do you blame the OC for ten wide open plays that an average QB can make?

 

They won this week, and couldn't run.

 

...On the road, against a 3-1 division leader.

[CSBill]

I wish carpenter would have made that first field goal, it looked like he was upset beforehand. I think if calvin johnson and bush had stayed in the game, it would have been a much different game

 

sorry you have nothing to really complain about today . . . band this poster for a week!

 

If Williams is back would you guys consider sliding Richardson across to RG? I think Williams at least in pass protection had done a steady job in the opening two games.

 

yes

[MattM]

Was anyone else furious about the timeout call on our 2nd to last drive after Orton hit Sammy over the middle to get us into Detroit territory? There's no way you shouldn't let the clock keep running there and ensure we are the last to hold the ball. Easily forgotten given all the craziness that ensued afterwards, but we could have had a first down at the Detroit 40 with appx 45 seconds left and instead we call timeout with - 1:18 maybe? - and promptly go 3 and out from there.

 

Oh, yes--Hackett did his best via horrible clock management at the end of the game to give the game away. Thanks God we overcame it. A HS coach wouldn't have given the ball back to the Lions in that situation, much less a pro coach.....

[RuntheDamnBall]

10) Marrone & Manuel's record when trailing by 10 pts or more: 0-10.

Marrone & Orton? 1-0

 

11) did you and many others here miss the 49 PASS ATTEMPTS??

Are those goalposts even still in the stadium at this point?

[CSBill]

Please don't extend spiller the guy just doesn't get it. We better make RB #1 Priority next year.

 

we have Dixon and Brown, time to use them!

[DC Greg]

Good stuff Bill.

 

Orton looked rusty early, then settled down. Already looks like he has been starting all year. Looks like EJ may make it to his 3rd season and be, still, "technically a rookie", eh?

 

Gilmore made an interdeption thrown right to him (and nowhere near the WR that had run by him. Nothing wrong with that. The holding penalty on him was bogus. But otherwise, he was not very good. Leodis had a nice play at the goal line (looked like a fumble to me). Otherwise, the usual--playing 5 yards off a guy catching a 3rd and 9 1st down pass. These guys shouldn't both be starting.

 

CJ is a third testicle at this point. People saying he can "rip off a 30 yarder" or "he can take it to the house at any time" are delusional. It just hasn't panned out that way, ever.

 

Having said that, this OC is still holding this team back, I think. This team has scored 7 offensive TDs in 5 games

 

Maybe with a new QB and a bit more time, his ideas will change. Running Spiller up the middle doesn't soften up the D for the passing game. It just wastes a down. If Fred needs a breather, put in a more physical back for tha play. Also, out FG kicker is the main source of points, still. If the Lions had a comepetent FG kicker, we lose this game.

 

Sammy will leave now doubt why he was picked where he was....

 

Yeah. Totally true... except for that little 100 yard kick return vs. the Dolphins. You know, the one where the Bills offens had sputtered all game and were up 9-7 and the Dolphins had all the momentum... UNTIL Cj Spiller just did something no one else could have done and burned everyone for a TD... something our offense has almost no ability to produce.

 

CJ may never be a "great" running back, but Hackett is not finding good ways to use him. You have to create some space for this guy. I'll talk all day about the need for more screens (like Gailey's O), but let's start w/ a simple solution... how about running him OFF TACKLE instead of inbetween the T-G or CG. Yes, he loves to bounce it. And he is actually good at it... imagine how good it could be if the blocking was actually to be favorable to the aforementioned scenario.

 

Please show me exactly where the holes were that he missed in the blocking schemes on those inside runs. What I saw was Fairly and Suh plugging the gaps and linebackers crashing hard. Nowhere to run inside.

 

All in all, good team win. Just have to contest this hatred.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Agreed. That talk should be confined to a separate thread or left til tomorrow. This was the most thrilling Bills win in a while. Let's enjoy it.

I Agree. I think some of the EJ fans are not pleased with this win. Enjoy the win, the fact the Jets got wooped and NE is about to. Got all week to talk EJ.

[Captain Hindsight]

KO made a few plays to keep us in the game but I'm not confident in him week in and week out. Felt like he was far to conservative at times, especially on third and long.

 

Defense is great. I'll take Schwartz anyday

[The Poojer]

I said he was no better and no worse. I didn't mean to imply EJ would have had the same outcome. I meant that this game was won by defense and a much better kicker, and they won without regard to who was behind center . I brought up Ej because I don't want to hear fans say that Orton is the answer.

 

 

Anyone that says that Orton was "no better than EJ" is really trying too hard to force-twist reality. I was really enjoying this thread until someone tried to sneak that into the conversation.

[thewildrabbit]

Orton is STILL undefeated against the Lions! cheers

[CSBill]

I said he was no better and no worse. I didn't mean to imply EJ would have had the same outcome. I meant that this game was won by defense and a much better kicker, and they won without regard to who was behind center . I brought up Ej because I don't want to hear fans say that Orton is the answer.

 

Bottom line, we all have more confidence and trust in Orton right now. Is he a physically better QB than EJ, probably not. But he is in a better place mentally, and that is exactly what this team needs right now.

[The Poojer]

I'm an EJ supporter and I agree 100%!

 

 

 

Bottom line, we all have more confidence and trust in Orton right now. Is he a physically better QB than EJ, probably not. But he is in a better place mentally, and that is exactly what this team needs right now.

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

Nice post, Bill.

 

My thoughts on the game, in no particular order.

 

1] Robert Woods tries his ass off, always blocks downfield, works for every yard.

 

2] Dareus best game of his career.

 

3] This is exactly what we want from Orton, the good and the bad. That's the guy he is and that's all we need.

 

4] If EJ throws that pass to Sammy in the last minute and we win, fans say EJ still sucks because he threw a bad pass with a miracle catch.

 

5] It was amazing that with three guys (Hughes, Dareus, Mario) rushing, they bullrushed Stafford on almost every play. As fans, we constantly yell to blitz more, always. Well we never blitzed, I remember one, total, of one player. And yet we got a great rush, seven or so sacks and it won the game. Don't listen to fans.

 

6] That's why you make the Watkins trade. He's a star. It has nothing to do with QB or EJ or next year. For 5-10 years he's going to be a star. There are not a lot of stars.

 

7] Our OL stinks, interior of course.

 

8] Orton's audible on the 2 pt conversion was just brilliant.

 

9] Fred is immortal.

 

10] Marrone, Orton, Spikes, Fred, etc, kept the team focused after being down 14-0 on the road and the team responded well. That may have been the best and most lastly element of this game.

 

11] Carpenter's kick probably would have broken the all-time record in the NFL. It was good from 65.

 

12] Hackett was frustrating for sure, but the run, run, run strategy got some great plays like the TD to Gragg. We had 350 yards. We won the game. I was frustrated to no end, too. But they ultimately did it.

Nice post, but I can't buy into #6. Stars are plentiful in the NFL and you can count on one hand the number of stars selected by their team that cost two #1s. Look at 2011 draft, 12 of top 16 players selected have gone to the Pro Bowl. The teams that traded up struck out. "There were only four first-round trades in 2011. The Jacksonville Jaguars suffered the most. They gave up a second-rounder to move up six spots to acquire Blaine Gabbert, who washed out as a starter and was dumped in a trade to the 49ers this offseason. Missing out on two high draft choices in the rich 2011 draft set back a franchise that heading into last year had one of the thinnest rosters in terms of talent.

The Kansas City Chiefs moved up six spots in the first round to select wide receiver Jon Baldwin in 2011. That didn't work out for the Chiefs, and they ended up dumping him to San Francisco last year for equally disappointing wide receiver A.J. Jenkins.

Toward the bottom of the first round in 2011, the New Orleans Saints gave away a 2012 first-rounder to move up for running back Mark Ingram. The Saints recently decided not to pick up Ingram's fifth-year option."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10882006/clayton-mailbag-trading-nfl-draft-worth-risk

Not saying Sammy is a bust, but two #1s is huge for a team still rebuilding (for over a decade!) He needs to be the best WR in football, not just a PB selection to justify two #1s! I hope I eat my words, but I still have a hard time with the logic of trading away the 2015 #1 pick. I really hope it turns out to be north of #30! Nice win today, Go Bills!

[truth on hold]

- Thankfully Robey ran down Tate after the whiff by Williams or in all likelihood game over

 

- Credit McKelvin for being physical with Megatron and getting him out of the game

 

- I noted how we had depth on D last week when Kyle and Nigel went out .... Charles in charge showed why today

 

- Orton showed what an NFL-caliber QB looks like: ran uptempo offense, ball came out fast, tight spirals all over the field, calm when pressured, intensity and leadership

 

- Spiller's problem is that he lacks confidence to run up the middle even when there are at least a couple easy yards because he thinks he can't take on tacklers in the hole -- he's right. But better guard play could change that. He has some faults like most any back, but he's still a contributor and someone who the defense must account for. In all likelihood hes a bill next year (sorry haters)

 

- Carpenter great FA pickup last year -- strong leg, and delivers under pressure

 

- Matt Prater will be out of work for a week, he'll be announced as Lion as early as tomorrow (I predict)

 

- Never seen a catch like Sammy's in Q4. I think he's really spooking DBs. They simply don't know what to make of him, nor how to defend

Edited October 5, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack

[The Frankish Reich]

Great post as always.

 

Spiller: I think that with Orton in we'll see Hackett start to use him more like Chan used him -- screens, getting the ball in open space, etc. The "we'll run him till he throws up" thing was stupid to begin with. He's not that kind of back. But neither is, say, Darren Sproles, and nobody would say he's useless.

 

Orton: took some huge heat in the first quarter and looked as bad as EJ. But unlike EJ, he didn't get rattled. He stood in there and made some throws. I was thinking about this -- 3 or 4 years ago I thought of him as no better or worse than Alex Smith. The last couple years my stock line has been, "just put Alex Smith on this club and we're a playoff competitor." So .... maybe?

[RuntheDamnBall]

I Agree. I think some of the EJ fans are not pleased with this win. Enjoy the win, the fact the Jets got wooped and NE is about to. Got all week to talk EJ.

Happy with the win. Does the win need to be accompanied with an inflation of the accomplishment, though, especially with "Orton did X thing that EJ would never do?"

 

That's about the size of it.

 

Orton was the beneficiary of 3 missed FGs, threw a pick-6, and drove his team to a pretty damn distant FG range to clinch it. And the Watkins pass was all on Sammy, making a great catch that he was unable to come up with last week on a ball where the QB did not make it easy on him. The Goodwin pass was awesome, though.

 

I hope the guy can take us far, but we are not winning many games like this. Hopefully it's just rust.

[Kelly the Dog]

Nice post, but I can't buy into #6. Stars are plentiful in the NFL and you can count on one hand the number of stars selected by their team that cost two #1s. Look at 2011 draft, 12 of top 16 players selected have gone to the Pro Bowl. The teams that traded up struck out. "There were only four first-round trades in 2011. The Jacksonville Jaguars suffered the most. They gave up a second-rounder to move up six spots to acquire Blaine Gabbert, who washed out as a starter and was dumped in a trade to the 49ers this offseason. Missing out on two high draft choices in the rich 2011 draft set back a franchise that heading into last year had one of the thinnest rosters in terms of talent.

 

The Kansas City Chiefs moved up six spots in the first round to select wide receiver Jon Baldwin in 2011. That didn't work out for the Chiefs, and they ended up dumping him to San Francisco last year for equally disappointing wide receiver A.J. Jenkins.

Toward the bottom of the first round in 2011, the New Orleans Saints gave away a 2012 first-rounder to move up for running back Mark Ingram. The Saints recently decided not to pick up Ingram's fifth-year option."

http://espn.go.com/n...raft-worth-risk

Not saying Sammy is a bust, but two #1s is huge for a team still rebuilding (for over a decade!) He needs to be the best WR in football, not just a PB selection to justify two #1s! I hope I eat my words, but I still have a hard time with the logic of trading away the 2015 #1 pick. I really hope it turns out to be north of #30! Nice win today, Go Bills!

It doesn't matter how you get them, you need them to win. You cannot win without them. It's not easy to find them. Most drafts there are not any surefire stars. Luck was one. But it was clear by most NFL evaluators that Watkins was a can't miss player, and equal to AJ Green and Julio Jones as star players. That's why you make the trade. #1 picks are 50-50. He's 98-2. And he showed it today. We don't win the game without him.

[xsoldier54]

I wish carpenter would have made that first field goal, it looked like he was upset beforehand. I think if calvin johnson and bush had stayed in the game, it would have been a much different game

Coulda woulda shoulda.... blah blah blah, just enjoy the win. They weren't in the game and neither was Kyle Williams. The Bills beat a very good team on the road today, so let's just enjoy it.

 

Happy with the win. Does the win need to be accompanied with an inflation of the accomplishment, though, especially with "Orton did X thing that EJ would never do?"

 

That's about the size of it.

 

Orton was the beneficiary of 3 missed FGs, threw a pick-6, and drove his team to a pretty damn distant FG range to clinch it. And the Watkins pass was all on Sammy, making a great catch that he was unable to come up with last week on a ball where the QB did not make it easy on him. The Goodwin pass was awesome, though.

 

I hope the guy can take us far, but we are not winning many games like this. Hopefully it's just rust.

Did you forget he was playing against the number one defense in the NFL and beat them at home? Was he perfect? No, but he absolutely made the throws when he needed to and enabled the playmakers like Watkins to make plays. He did a good job and there is absolutely zero chance the Bills win this game with E. J. Manuel at QB. I repeat, absolutely zero chance.

[stony]

Great post as always.

 

Spiller: I think that with Orton in we'll see Hackett start to use him more like Chan used him -- screens, getting the ball in open space, etc. The "we'll run him till he throws up" thing was stupid to begin with. He's not that kind of back. But neither is, say, Darren Sproles, and nobody would say he's useless.

 

Orton: took some huge heat in the first quarter and looked as bad as EJ. But unlike EJ, he didn't get rattled. He stood in there and made some throws. I was thinking about this -- 3 or 4 years ago I thought of him as no better or worse than Alex Smith. The last couple years my stock line has been, "just put Alex Smith on this club and we're a playoff competitor." So .... maybe?

 

Not to mention our run-blocking kinda sucks.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

@bill in NYC. Not too sure about Gilmore having a decent game. I thought the Tate TD was one of his worst moments. A guy runs a curl to the end zone and Gilmore is 3 yards from him. He continues to frustrate me.

[Bronc24]

@bill in NYC. Not too sure about Gilmore having a decent game. I thought the Tate TD was one of his worst moments. A guy runs a curl to the end zone and Gilmore is 3 yards from him. He continues to frustrate me.

 

He didn't want to get beat deep.

[Kelly the Dog]

@bill in NYC. Not too sure about Gilmore having a decent game. I thought the Tate TD was one of his worst moments. A guy runs a curl to the end zone and Gilmore is 3 yards from him. He continues to frustrate me.

They gave up seven freakin' points!