Big C Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 What evidence do we have that Marrone knows what he is doing? I haven't noticed anything that rises above mediocre. Why is he better than the 5 previous Bills head coaches? I'm pretty sure that was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 It would be radical, but not unprecedented I'm pretty sure it would be unprecedented. Cutting a 2nd round pick 4 months after drafting him is the equivalent of a GM asking to be fired. And in a ownership transition year? Any talk of him getting cut is complete nonsense. Anyhow, I watched the Sugar Bowl with my friend and I remember a point where I asked him "Have you ever seen a worse performance by a O-lineman in a bowl game?" His response was - "I can't believe this guy wants to declare this year, where does he think he'll get taken?" We both came to the conclusion that some hyper-aggressive agent probably got in his ear and convinced him that the money was there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Major disappointment for sure. Yet the question is do you risk cutting him? As I think he easily could land on another team's depth chart if he gets cut. I say he sticks for development purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 It would be radical, but not unprecedented, to cut a high pick. I think the steelers did with a 1st round lineman, though they gave him one season before cutting him. If the staff thinks he's hopeless, then what's the point in keeping him? If they think they can develop him, then there's reason to keep him. I have heard or seen nothing positive from him; that he is getting so badly abused by camp fodder is a red flag. Remember this is the same staff that liked him enough after watching his tape, talking to his coaches and working him out individually took him with a premium pick less than 4 months ago. How god awful terrible and uncaring would the guy have to be for the staff to throw up their hands and say its impossible that quick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Remember this is the same staff that liked him enough after watching his tape, talking to his coaches and working him out individually took him with a premium pick less than 4 months ago. How god awful terrible and uncaring would the guy have to be for the staff to throw up their hands and say its impossible that quick? it doesn't matter. It won't happen,nor should it. NFL GMs don't cut 2nd rd picks due to on field play before their 1st season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 it doesn't matter. It won't happen,nor should it. NFL GMs don't cut 2nd rd picks due to on field play before their 1st season. Well, that was my point. If they thought his talent was questionable enough that cutting him year 1 was remotely possible..... Well.... They wouldn't have drafted him that high. They saw talent. A lot of it. It didn't disappear instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 It is unusual for a second round pick in a deep draft to be this raw. We really needed CK to compete for the right tackle position and he has been unable to do so. Our online was weak last year and needed to be upgraded. CK was a part of the plan to improve the online and I think the hope was that he would be able to start in his rookie year. I think there is a problem, but I hope I am wrong. I remember that Maybin seemed like a bust in his first training camp, and he was a bust. I am getting the same feeling with CK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I'm pretty sure that was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Cordy Glen is coming back that frees Henderson to move to RT. Assuming no OT injuries and that is always a big assumption they will be pretty good at Tackle. Kouandjo would certainly be great insurance if he could contribute this year but clearly that is not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Remember this is the same staff that liked him enough after watching his tape, talking to his coaches and working him out individually took him with a premium pick less than 4 months ago. How god awful terrible and uncaring would the guy have to be for the staff to throw up their hands and say its impossible that quick? You're probably right. But having the oline coach publicly rip him suggests that there might be some serious regret and doubt. I don't think I have ever seen a pick seem so lost and hopeless as he does. Even with Maybin, there was a random moment of luck that gave us hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 You're probably right. But having the oline coach publicly rip him suggests that there might be some serious regret and doubt. I don't think I have ever seen a pick seem so lost and hopeless as he does. Even with Maybin, there was a random moment of luck that gave us hope. You don't remember Mike Williams? Sad, because he was LOST LOST LOST in his first year and a lot higher pick to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 You're probably right. But having the oline coach publicly rip him suggests that there might be some serious regret and doubt. I don't think I have ever seen a pick seem so lost and hopeless as he does. Even with Maybin, there was a random moment of luck that gave us hope. Or that they hope it'll be a kick in the butt to get a fire lot. Maybin didnt show much luck til the jets. With us he had that hold out then struggled to stay upright most plays. I'm not saying CK is in a good spot, just that it's early and our expectations were perhaps too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 The poor kid is not getting it mentally. Thats what i thought last night . looked drunk ish. Morris can coach him up , but is there enough time to have hi make the 53 ? Ps is tough path to attempt and IR is bordering on illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 The poor kid is not getting it mentally. Thats what i thought last night . looked drunk ish. Morris can coach him up , but is there enough time to have hi make the 53 ? Ps is tough path to attempt and IR is bordering on illegal He has 12 if not 24 months to play himself off the 53. His college résumé and physical talents earned him a spot on the 53 the minute he was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Well, that was my point. If they thought his talent was questionable enough that cutting him year 1 was remotely possible..... Well.... They wouldn't have drafted him that high. They saw talent. A lot of it. It didn't disappear instantly. exactly. Not all draft picks fulfill expectations. But they won't make that determination for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I still think he is a guard.......is LG in such lockdown that we dont want to take a highly touted OT and try him at LG? I think the only thing holding this back is Glenns status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 He has 12 if not 24 months to play himself off the 53. His college résumé and physical talents earned him a spot on the 53 the minute he was drafted. In that case , and i would agree of course. He better become of some value sooner than later. Last night freaked me out a little and i was already irritable about Legursky by then . I still think he is a guard.......is LG in such lockdown that we dont want to take a highly touted OT and try him at LG? I think the only thing holding this back is Glenns status no reason not work him at guard , no reason not to work Seantrel at RT either . especially if Glenn is the fulcrum here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 His career is a few minutes long but he's clearly a bust. I wouldn't want to start a new job working for you. I'd either have a coronary or get fired in minute 3. The issue I have is that its one thing if he is looking this bad against the starters, but he isn't. He is looking this bad against UDFA's and street free agents who he is making look like a cross between Bruce Smith and Reggie White getting beaten on just about every play and beaten very badly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I still think he is a guard.......is LG in such lockdown that we dont want to take a highly touted OT and try him at LG? I think the only thing holding this back is Glenns status Why do you think he is a guard? I'm not saying he can't move there but we are talking about a player with an extremely ectomorphic frame for an OL in CK. The Bills have struggled with pad level in the inside run game for a while, hence their inability to convert in short yardage/goal line despite a wealth of experience running the football in between the 20's. This guy is not built for low, drive blocking at all. The issue I have is that its one thing if he is looking this bad against the starters, but he isn't. He is looking this bad against UDFA's and street free agents who he is making look like a cross between Bruce Smith and Reggie White getting beaten on just about every play and beaten very badly... This is the issue EVERYBODY has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Why do you think he is a guard? I'm not saying he can't move there but we are talking about a player with an extremely ectomorphic frame for an OL in CK. The Bills have struggled with pad level in the inside run game for a while, hence their inability to convert in short yardage/goal line despite a wealth of experience running the football in between the 20's. This guy is not built for low, drive blocking at all. Isn't that part of the issue now? That he is having guys get under him and get him off balance? That would be much worse inside with guys typically bigger and stronger than what he is facing outside at tackle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Isn't that part of the issue now? That he is having guys get under him and get him off balance? That would be much worse inside with guys typically bigger and stronger than what he is facing outside at tackle Everything is a problem when you are a tackle with bad footwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I am on the IR him bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Why do you think he is a guard? I'm not saying he can't move there but we are talking about a player with an extremely ectomorphic frame for an OL in CK. The Bills have struggled with pad level in the inside run game for a while, hence their inability to convert in short yardage/goal line despite a wealth of experience running the football in between the 20's. This guy is not built for low, drive blocking at all. This is the issue EVERYBODY has. There have been several biult high players that have made a successful transition to guard......and I just want to understand what you are saying.....are you saying that Cyrus cannot drive block? Cuz right now that appears to be the ONLY thing he is pretty good at...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 My thoughts are that he was so much larger than most in college he did not need to have refined technique, he could pretty much maul folks. His weak bench press and poor combine in general tells me that he didn't work hard enough in college. Now that he's in the nfl and the guys are strong, big and fast, he needs to spend time on technique and strength. Kujo hasn't played football for too long, and he has potential for the future. Since we have Pears it's a good gamble that if Kujo reforms his body and technique he may be able to make some waves at RT. I think he looks a lot like Mike adams, the ot on the steelers from ohio st. Mike had to play a little last year, sucked then and he still isn't ready to be a starter. Hopefully Kujo is driven to improve himself, and I assume that desire is why the Bills drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 There have been several biult high players that have made a successful transition to guard......and I just want to understand what you are saying.....are you saying that Cyrus cannot drive block? Cuz right now that appears to be the ONLY thing he is pretty good at...... Right now I am saying he can't do anything at a starting NFL level which is to say the least a disappointment. But leverage is an important part of the short yardage game and it has been a weakness of the team. The Bills seem to share your opinion that taller is better though...as their two attempts at filling the starting LG position vacated by Levitre over the last two offseasons have both been guys in the 6'8" range in Colin Brown and Chris Williams. I think this plays OK between the 20's where much of the run blocking is done in space, upright and on the move but as the field gets shorter it becomes more of a leverage/quickness game. The Bills can practice goal line/short yardage all they want but low man wins and you have to be quick into those blocks to prevent penetration and that is a tough task for a tall guy with a 7' wingspan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Right now I am saying he can't do anything at a starting NFL level which is to say the least a disappointment. But leverage is an important part of the short yardage game and it has been a weakness of the team. The Bills seem to share your opinion that taller is better though...as their two attempts at filling the starting LG position vacated by Levitre over the last two offseasons have both been guys in the 6'8" range in Colin Brown and Chris Williams. I think this plays OK between the 20's where much of the run blocking is done in space, upright and on the move but as the field gets shorter it becomes more of a leverage/quickness game. The Bills can practice goal line/short yardage all they want but low man wins and you have to be quick into those blocks to prevent penetration and that is a tough task for a tall guy with a 7' wingspan. I do agree with the thinking that you take college OT's and make them OG's in the NFL (marrone has said this in one of his press conferences) because your putting a more agile (supposidly) player on the field.....which is always a good thing. Yes we are having red zone problems...and yes they are not getting their pad level low enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 He can`t play guard. Too slow of foot to pull. Not talking 40 time. Has NO quicks. Also he does not bend well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 He can`t play guard. Too slow of foot to pull. Not talking 40 time. Has NO quicks. Also he does not bend well. I disagree.......what is bothering him is lateral movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Yeah because he has cement blocks for feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Yeah because he has cement blocks for feet. We will see.....I think he just needs work. It is interesting how we call him slow but he is the first one downfield to dive on a fumbled ball....... He did that to.....remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I am on the IR him bandwagon. If a player is on IR does that mean they can't practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Whatever, he is horribly slow. No quickness at all. Too stiff. From what I`ve seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 He's going to be fine. Give the coaches time to fix him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 If a player is on IR does that mean they can't practice? Yes, because they are too injured to play by theory. You can't just stash guys and then work them all season still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smapdi Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Talk about over reaction. I am willing to give Kouandjio a little more then 3 exhibition games before I call him a bust. He hasn't played football his entire life so his technique could definitely use work; in college he could get by using his massive size and strength to mask poor technique. Everyone in the pros is equivalent to the strongest players he faced in college. He definitely need to hit the weight room and be coached up. He has a couple things going for him though. He's a very hard worker and used to winning. He will dive right into learning what he needs to do. Marrone is also a former linemen so he can teach him what he needs to know. We also have some dominant d line men he can practice against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 The poor kid is not getting it mentally. Thats what i thought last night . looked drunk ish. That's what I was thinking, but then I realized that was me and not him. I'm pretty sure with his injury concerns pre-draft they can justify an IR spot one way or another. I just hope a light goes on and that's not needed. SERIOUSLY doubt he's cut. As lumbering as he looks I have wondered if his weight is way up, if it's his knees or something else physically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I do agree with the thinking that you take college OT's and make them OG's in the NFL (marrone has said this in one of his press conferences) because your putting a more agile (supposidly) player on the field.....which is always a good thing. Yes we are having red zone problems...and yes they are not getting their pad level low enough This is the heart of the matter wise and venerable brother John. must be attended to We will see.....I think he just needs work. It is interesting how we call him slow but he is the first one downfield to dive on a fumbled ball....... He did that to.....remember? and Seantrel is the first over to pick up the RB . I love him for that .But recovering and offensive fumble should be low on the value chart possibly Talk about over reaction. I am willing to give Kouandjio a little more then 3 exhibition games before I call him a bust. He hasn't played football his entire life so his technique could definitely use work; in college he could get by using his massive size and strength to mask poor technique. Everyone in the pros is equivalent to the strongest players he faced in college. He definitely need to hit the weight room and be coached up. He has a couple things going for him though. He's a very hard worker and used to winning. He will dive right into learning what he needs to do. Marrone is also a former linemen so he can teach him what he needs to know. We also have some dominant d line men he can practice against. tis is a great point. I can imagine .He did speak of his winning culture. I imagine he will regroup and get then get after it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 If a player is on IR does that mean they can't practice? Per league rules, only the Patriots are allowed to practice IR'd players. Yes, because they are too injured to play by theory. You can't just stash guys and then work them all season still. for the one millionth time, you're wrong on something. see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Per league rules, only the Patriots are allowed to practice IR'd players. for the one millionth time, you're wrong on something. see above. Touché. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Give him time... Give him coaching.... Give him 2nd round money.... I really dislike Legursky, so if OG is an option..... Play the big fella there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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