Best Player Available Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Makes sense. Won't get much as CJ is a FA at year end. But maybe a 3rd or 4th. If it is sign and trade deal, then maybe a 2nd. First is out of the question in any scenario. Pass first league. Running backs are like Safeties. Replaceable. Worse than safeties , as RBs only last 5 or 6 years . I would trade him. We will never sign him to what he will want. and you are forgetting that they will never be able to re-sign him and he will walk for no compensation. that is reality from a front office perspective ; that is unacceptable and bad front office management. so you move him when you can get something for him. RBs are expendable in a pass-first league... see Knowshon Moreno Your thoughts on how replaceable running backs and pro bowl safety's are apparently no longer valued are clear. What are your thoughts on offensive guards and well even left tackles being easily replaced. because until Glenn got here that was a huge issue, and well the guard spots are really up for grabs now, IMO that will continue to be an issue this season. Overpaying for someone else's first round garbage just doesn't feel like a sound investment at LG. Especially when some tout the HC as some kind of O-Line guru. I would be stunned if CJ was traded or not resigned to a reasonable extension. I'm pretty sure he knows his value in the league. he is a complimentary player not a every down back. never will be.the market is aware of that. very few teams would pass him up at the right price. Bills included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I can understand speculation about management trading CJ this year for a player that fits the "win now" philosophy. Current management had nothing to loose trading away next years future for Sammy this year. With new ownership by next spring being certain, it is "win now" to try to impress the new owner and beat the odds trying save your job when the new guy brings in "their own team". But why would current management get rid of CJ this year for "future considerations", when their own future depends on "winning now". The team is a weaker team without CJ, if there is no important "new cog" added in the "NOW"! And none of us can predict what will happen with contracts and negotiations next year with new ownership, new management members brought by the new owner, and a definitely unique and new business philosophy which will be set by the new owner. Next year is a total mystery, at least till we know who the new owner will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I can understand speculation about management trading CJ this year for a player that fits the "win now" philosophy. Current management had nothing to loose trading away next years future for Sammy this year. With new ownership by next spring being certain, it is "win now" to try to impress the new owner and beat the odds trying save your job when the new guy brings in "their own team". But why would current management get rid of CJ this year for "future considerations", when their own future depends on "winning now". The team is a weaker team without CJ, if there is no important "new cog" added in the "NOW"! And none of us can predict what will happen with contracts and negotiations next year with new ownership, new management members brought by the new owner, and a definitely unique and new business philosophy which will be set by the new owner. Next year is a total mystery, at least till we know who the new owner will be. While you're right that none of us can predict with absolute certainty what will happen with new ownership, Brandon and Whaley were not looking to throw a Hail Mary with Watkins to save their jobs. They were looking to trade up and get an elite prospect long before Ralph passed. Even if they were worried about trying to impress their new owner, wouldn't they prove their worth by doing the best job possible? I wouldn't want to appear as if I was panicking. I'd want to appear as though I had a plan and am going to execute it. Which is exactly what they are doing. Anyway, it is not "win now" because of the ownership situation, it is "win now" because they've been losing. They've got a ton of talent in most areas, and often enough, adding a "difference maker" does just that: Make a difference. Coaches and GMs don't have the luxury of twiddling their thumbs. Every team in the league is in a "win now" mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 In the defense of Spiller, I see the term "home run hitter" being used quite frequently. But on 235 touches last season CJ had only 2 TD's, and yes, I recognize he was dinged up. But therein lies the issue, and that's durability. He's never had more than 260 touches in 8 seasons of D-1 or NFL football. And that's over the course of 3 different coaching staffs (Swinney/Gailey/Marrone) When the Bills dealt for Bryce Brown and paid what they did, it said a lot about their view on Spiller. I expect this will be FJ's last season and so it leaves them with questions. Spiller will be 27 in August and while that's not old, he's not going to get the contract Jamaal Charles got. LaCanfora's point was speculative, but not out of the question. If Brown's doing well it may mean CJ isn't as valuable to this coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 In the defense of Spiller, I see the term "home run hitter" being used quite frequently. But on 235 touches last season CJ had only 2 TD's, and yes, I recognize he was dinged up. But therein lies the issue, and that's durability. He's never had more than 260 touches in 8 seasons of D-1 or NFL football. And that's over the course of 3 different coaching staffs (Swinney/Gailey/Marrone) When the Bills dealt for Bryce Brown and paid what they did, it said a lot about their view on Spiller. I expect this will be FJ's last season and so it leaves them with questions. Spiller will be 27 in August and while that's not old, he's not going to get the contract Jamaal Charles got. LaCanfora's point was speculative, but not out of the question. If Brown's doing well it may mean CJ isn't as valuable to this coaching staff. well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 ...and Lattimore...who I think becomes their RB next year. he hasn't been activated yet, but yeah. They also have lamichael James. @RQUINN619: NEW: #Bills GM Doug Whaley Has No Incentive To Trade C.J. Spiller http://t.co/LXHThVuRnU (via @TheBillsMafia) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJDK Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 actually I was thinking that Whaley is smart enough to pull it off. The only thing I'd be ok trading spiller for is a better QB than EJ and that's not going to happen. Spiller is a very important piece to this team, just being on the field as a distraction is as big as his 5 yards every time he touches the ball. mrags, that's some real Tom Donahoe type thinking. Even some "Marshawn is just another thug, get rid of him" type thinking. It's a bad idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) The only thing I'd be ok trading spiller for is a better QB than EJ and that's not going to happen. Spiller is a very important piece to this team, just being on the field as a distraction is as big as his 5 yards every time he touches the ball. mrags, that's some real Tom Donahoe type thinking. Even some "Marshawn is just another thug, get rid of him" type thinking. It's a bad idea everyone keeps using this "being on the field is a distraction" argument. It's never worked. Our offense still sucks and it's been better without him on the field actually because Freddy does a better job. Is it Freddy? Maybe. Is it CJ not being as good? Maybe. Does CJ distance himself from an aging back who just like himself always seems to be hurt? Nope. And our WRs have almost never benefitted from CJ being on the field. Never. And Lynch needed to go. He wasn't worth the troubles. Hell, even the Seahawks realize that and won't resign the guy. And he's played much better for them than he has for us. Edited July 27, 2014 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 If the season goes south quick as most do, they will not clean house for draft picks unless the new owner mandates. To stay employed this regime will be on a mode of doing anything and everything to get to 8-8 right up to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) Of course they would for the right price. What passes for "news" anymore is amazing. Now if he had information worth announcing like team X was interested and the price was <insert draft pick numbers here> that's great. But the Bills "may" be interested. Come on man, show a little professional pride and put a little effort into it. Edited July 27, 2014 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 everyone keeps using this "being on the field is a distraction" argument. It's never worked. Our offense still sucks and it's been better without him on the field actually because Freddy does a better job. Is it Freddy? Maybe. Is it CJ not being as good? Maybe. Does CJ distance himself from an aging back who just like himself always seems to be hurt? Nope. And our WRs have almost never benefitted from CJ being on the field. Never. And Lynch needed to go. He wasn't worth the troubles. Hell, even the Seahawks realize that and won't resign the guy. And he's played much better for them than he has for us. I will use your same argument... Fred has done well, and I don't mean to take anything away from him- he's my favorite Bill... But he hasn't been able to distance himself enough to warrant taking carries away from CJ either- the entire time that CJ's been in town.... The two compliment each other.... It keeps our RB's fresh... I would rather have two RB's playing that have different and defined roles that they are very capable of performing than to have one lead workhorse that only does half of the required things well... Either way, they are both currently on the roster, and as Bills fans, we should support them and hope they tear it up!!! Statistically, not a ligament or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I think it is the play calling. Spiller is an in space runner. They kept asking him to run between the tackles with no holes being opened up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I think it is the play calling. Spiller is an in space runner. They kept asking him to run between the tackles with no holes being opened up. Yes... And to mrags point, the fact that he isn't that versatile proves that he isn't an ELITE back... He may be an elite talent, but not a true elite lead RB.... Given the proper use, he can be dangerous... Edited July 27, 2014 by CountryCletus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I will use your same argument... Fred has done well, and I don't mean to take anything away from him- he's my favorite Bill... But he hasn't been able to distance himself enough to warrant taking carries away from CJ either- the entire time that CJ's been in town.... The two compliment each other.... It keeps our RB's fresh... I would rather have two RB's playing that have different and defined roles that they are very capable of performing than to have one lead workhorse that only does half of the required things well... Either way, they are both currently on the roster, and as Bills fans, we should support them and hope they tear it up!!! Statistically, not a ligament or anything... Freddy wasn't a top 10 pick. He also doesn't receive all the excuses that CJ does. Yes. We are fans and I've stated before that I hope I'm wrong. But the facts are, that I'm not wrong in this. At least haven't been. Because CJ has an average of 755 yards a season and 3tds for his career. OMG!!!! Hall OF Fame... Watch out!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Freddy wasn't a top 10 pick. He also doesn't receive all the excuses that CJ does. Yes. We are fans and I've stated before that I hope I'm wrong. But the facts are, that I'm not wrong in this. At least haven't been. Because CJ has an average of 755 yards a season and 3tds for his career. OMG!!!! Hall OF Fame... Watch out!!! I think you miss pro bowler and all pro, as well! Lol... HOF, probably not.... Dangerous when he touches the ball... Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I think it is the play calling. Spiller is an in space runner. They kept asking him to run between the tackles with no holes being opened up. RBs that were top 10 draft picks, in their contract year, and about to get their big money contracts need to be able to do these things to be talked about like they are the best player on the team. He's not any of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 He especially excels at those designed runs between the tackles... Oh, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I think you miss pro bowler and all pro, as well! Lol... HOF, probably not.... Dangerous when he touches the ball... Yes saying he made the pro bowl is comical. The pro bowl now is comical as it is. It always has been going back to the days of Ruben Brown who would make it every year just because he would throw a huge party every year. It's a popularity contest and CJ didn't make it without others sitting out. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 RBs that were top 10 draft picks, in their contract year, and about to get their big money contracts need to be able to do these things to be talked about like they are the best player on the team. He's not any of those. I think he is quite similar to Charles... Neither will succeed pounding them between the tackles... But if you can find ways to get them the ball in space, they both have the speed and moves to be a terror... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 He especially excels at those designed runs between the tackles... Oh, wait... good RBs make all the runs and don't need excuses why they can't. I think he is quite similar to Charles... Neither will succeed pounding them between the tackles... But if you can find ways to get them the ball in space, they both have the speed and moves to be a terror... Spiller and Charles in the same conversation should never...... EVER... Happen. One is good the other sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 good RBs make all the runs and don't need excuses why they can't. Versatile running backs do that... Or power running backs... True elite running backs.... Yes.... He isn't built for that.... I concur... He's a weapon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 RBs that were top 10 draft picks, in their contract year, and about to get their big money contracts need to be able to do these things to be talked about like they are the best player on the team. He's not any of those. I agree, but the OL last year was not helping him all that much. If this Ol can at least be average. Spiller's stats will go way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Freddy wasn't a top 10 pick. He also doesn't receive all the excuses that CJ does. Yes. We are fans and I've stated before that I hope I'm wrong. But the facts are, that I'm not wrong in this. At least haven't been. Because CJ has an average of 755 yards a season and 3tds for his career. OMG!!!! Hall OF Fame... Watch out!!! Cherry picking stats is fun. But going with average yards per season doesn't tell the whole story and you know it. You don't get to average his yards per season and ignore his YPC. Not when he's clearly not been the A1 feature back for most of that time - a point that even you would concede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Disclaimer I think this guy is a tool and he may just be speculating His article also referred to "Tom" Pegula http://mweb.cbssport...j-manuel-better "I'd expect the Bills to field calls for running backs if contending teams continue to lose them (Vick Ballard and Kendall Hunter already out for the year). Buffalo has more backs than it needs, probably, and C.J. Spiller, in the final year of his deal and with no extension in sight, could be the odd man out. I anticipate Fred Jackson being a Bill for life, and he could end up with a few new years on his deal, and the speed of Bryce Brown is impressive. Anthony Dixon supplies depth. A trade market for Spiller could well develop over the next month." And if seeing what CJ looked like in his post practice interview you can tell the guy is just about over it ! He is the ultimate team guy , he came from a winning college program , but he see's the ineptness of some of the coaches & i think he could be the next Lynch pin pulled from Buffalo to go on & win a super bowl . Plus the fact that Whaley may see the need for a first round pick next year to cover his A** for a real NFL QB ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 And if seeing what CJ looked like in his post practice interview you can tell the guy is just about over it ! He is the ultimate team guy , he came from a winning college program , but he see's the ineptness of some of the coaches & i think he could be the next Lynch pin pulled from Buffalo to go on & win a super bowl . Plus the fact that Whaley may see the need for a first round pick next year to cover his A** for a real NFL QB ... No one is giving a first for a 27 year old back. Didn't the eagles ask about CJ earlier this year? Well he is still here and will be on opening day running up the middle. I wish someone would offer a first for hack-it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) CJ isn't the problem. He would be welcomed by the Pats, Broncos, Packers, Colts...teams with good QB's. He would be an incredible asset, and they would figure out ways to exploit defenses with him. A top flight QB, with Watkins and CJ, would have DC's crapping their pants. Stop whining about CJ, these Bills have way bigger problems. Edited July 27, 2014 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I think it is the play calling. Spiller is an in space runner. They kept asking him to run between the tackles with no holes being opened up. Exactly! Buddy Nix traded away the perfect RB for Nate Hackett's offense in Marshawn Lynch. Again, is it Spiller's fault that the Bills OC doesn't know how to utilize him properly. As lame as Chan Gailey was at least he knew that CJ wasn't a smash mouth up the middle RB. What does it tell you about the mentality of a coach who forces players to fit his system rather then building an attack to get the most out of their players. Also, I think the bigger problem is not with either Fred Jackson or CJ Spiller, and my take is that O line is the bigger fail as to why the backs have difficulty in running up the middle. Lets take into consideration that in many games Spiller was tackled before he even got to the LoS. Lets also not forget that even Lynch had difficulty getting yards with that craptastic O line. Levite was a top rated pass blocker, and not a top run blocker. Both Fedex, and CJ are both very unique and special backs IMO. If they do indeed trade Spiller it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him help take his new team to the SB just like Lynch did with the Seahawks. I agree, but the OL last year was not helping him all that much. If this Ol can at least be average. Spiller's stats will go way up. It really amazes me that most fans simply don't get this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 God our OLine blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Getting rid of CJ would show as much fore sight as paying Fitz his huge contract , as cutting him after said contract , as Hiring the least qualified HC out of 4 interviewed , as drafting a second round QB in the first round in a year where the QB talent was below average to say the least , as firing a top ST coordinator & O line coach after having both squads performing at the top of the league & hiring a ST's coordinator that was in the bottom of the league in his previous place of employment . But hopefully the new GM can see all the past happenings & has the moxy & the guts to change things here , let's hope so !! Unless of coarse Whaley brought in the guy from Philly to look to that future & can get a first round pick for CJ or trades CJ for a QB (only if EJ sucks it up this year) that can out do our current roster of QB's . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Boobie Dixon time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Trading CJ would be dumb. We should re-sign the guy. CJ is a great teammate, has elite talent, and is a lot tougher than the keyboard jockeys here and the News. Re Bryce Brown, do a little research on his college "career" and ask yourself who you would rather have as a teammate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 very unlikely. is the answer to the topic of this thread. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Trading CJ would be dumb. We should re-sign the guy. CJ is a great teammate, has elite talent, and is a lot tougher than the keyboard jockeys here and the News. Re Bryce Brown, do a little research on his college "career" and ask yourself who you would rather have as a teammate. Bryce Brown has started two games since high school so he's the answer right? Dixon did average 2.0 ypc last season. Creating holes where their isn't one is a good way for the Bills to continue striving for 6-10 or 7-9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 very unlikely. is the answer to the topic of this thread. jw Somebody needs to gently break this to mr ags. He won't be happy until CJ and KW leave town. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Somebody needs to gently break this to mr ags. He won't be happy until CJ and KW leave town. GO BILLS!!! Somebody needs to gently break it to a whole lot of people, here and elsewhere, that click-whoring is now the default business process for the media. I nominate wawrow, because, with that "Bon Jovi scouted stadium sites in Toronto" story, he can explain the difference between the real journalism that he does, and click-whoring. And, I don't even like wawrow. Well, except when he's unkowningly buying me a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Disclaimer I think this guy is a tool and he may just be speculating His article also referred to "Tom" Pegula http://mweb.cbssport...j-manuel-better "I'd expect the Bills to field calls for running backs if contending teams continue to lose them (Vick Ballard and Kendall Hunter already out for the year). Buffalo has more backs than it needs, probably, and C.J. Spiller, in the final year of his deal and with no extension in sight, could be the odd man out. I anticipate Fred Jackson being a Bill for life, and he could end up with a few new years on his deal, and the speed of Bryce Brown is impressive. Anthony Dixon supplies depth. A trade market for Spiller could well develop over the next month." Good, I was gona start a thread on trading Spiller to the colts or other needy team to get our first round pick back. Spiller has had only one good year and he doesn't fit what we want to do, which is why we traded for brown and where looking to trade up for Carlos Hyde, both physical backs. As always it depends on what they can get for him. For Richardson type of bounty you'd think about it. For a lynch like bounty you pass. If it's a win now mentality due to ownership change in the air, I only see spiller for another player. Aaron rodgers, sounds good. Seriously though I wonder if there is a up and coming QB that another team might trade spiller for, Maybe Brock Osweiler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Not when he's clearly not been the A1 feature back for most of that time - Why is that do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Why is that do you think? Partly his own doing, part coaches misusing him, part his skill set making him not a 20-25 carry-per-game back, and part injuries. I don't think anyone would argue he's been used in the best way possible given his skill set. Also, if you have a back who does all the little things and gives effort like Fred Jackson, are you sitting him for the majority of the game for anyone, save maybe 5-10 backs in the league? CJ doesn't block as well as Freddy, he cannot make magic out of those runs up the gut, and he isn't being given the ball in all the places where he can excel. I think if he has a return to health, he will do well when used well, and I think his last season in Gailey's offense is at least a good barometer of his best. Getting rid of him for anything less than a first round pick is a waste, when he cost us a high first rounder and he can contribute here. That's not sunk cost, that's good asset management. My point was that he hasn't been getting A1 back usage, so you can't expect those numbers on a career average, as mrrags is. You can look at years he has been the feature back and has been healthy, and those years are pretty freaking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Partly his own doing, part coaches misusing him, part his skill set making him not a 20-25 carry-per-game back, and part injuries. I don't think anyone would argue he's been used in the best way possible given his skill set. Also, if you have a back who does all the little things and gives effort like Fred Jackson, are you sitting him for the majority of the game for anyone, save maybe 5-10 backs in the league? CJ doesn't block as well as Freddy, he cannot make magic out of those runs up the gut, and he isn't being given the ball in all the places where he can excel. I think if he has a return to health, he will do well when used well, and I think his last season in Gailey's offense is at least a good barometer of his best. Getting rid of him for anything less than a first round pick is a waste, when he cost us a high first rounder and he can contribute here. That's not sunk cost, that's good asset management. My point was that he hasn't been getting A1 back usage, so you can't expect those numbers on a career average, as mrrags is. You can look at years he has been the feature back and has been healthy, and those years are pretty freaking good. He won't bring a first round pick. I'd settle for a 3. Circumstances could change as the season approaches, but, I can't seen another Indy/Cleveland type deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 He won't bring a first round pick. I'd settle for a 3. Circumstances could change as the season approaches, but, I can't seen another Indy/Cleveland type deal. I agree with the first sentence. It's a classic case of "he's worth more to us than he will fetch in a deal." I would be very unhappy with trading his production here for a 3. Others may think that production is replaceable, and that's fine, I just disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts