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Bills officially for sale - let the bidding begin!

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Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

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If you think that they may do that you don't think that it crossed the minds of the trust? That is the point. Their word will not be good enough.

 

Thanks CBF!!

Thanks for the insight. But just to be clear, are you saying that the Toronto group would keep the Bills in Buffalo past the 7th year out, or that they won't get the team because the trust sees through them? I do realize that there's no real way for you to know the Toronto group's true intentions (...or do you?).

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Kirby Jackson Hall of Famer

Kirby Jackson

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Bandit, I think that the way that the trust is set up really hinders bidders that they don't want. It is not some blind auction where everyone submits a bid and the highest number wins. Whose to say that they don't go back to Pegula and say "we need you to be at $___?" I sell small businesses now for a living and I have done stuff like this to get the best fit in place. If there is a better buyer I will try to get them up to a price and terms that best satisfy the seller. You really can't reveal other's bids as a broker (the trust may actually be able to which would be a game changer). Either way, it really isn't a fair process for everyone. I would not even be a little surprised if this kind of thing goes on. The NDA is strictly in place to keep their financial information private.

 

On a side note I will gladly accept your offer. It is tough to get Canadian beers down here.

 

 

Thanks for the insight. But just to be clear, are you saying that the Toronto group would keep the Bills in Buffalo past the 7th year out, or that they won't get the team because the trust sees through them? I do realize that there's no real way for you to know the Toronto group's true intentions (...or do you?).

A little bit of both. If they want a shot at the team they are going to have to commit to WNY otherwise they will pick someone else. They will not accept them at their word either. Edited by Kirby Jackson
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KDIGGZ Hall of Famer

KDIGGZ

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I have asked you this question at least 5 times, and I sincerely would like an answer if you're going to continue to say this: why do you think that a simple "we promise" is going to be good enough to satisfy the Trust's requirements?

We have not heard otherwise and there's no way they would sign something saying they HAVE to stay in Buffalo because they need a new stadium and they would have no leverage to get the state to put money in if the state knew they had to stay. Even Ralph would threaten to leave during negotiations. It's the only hand owners have when negotiating leases. If the Toronto group had to stay in Buffalo then they wouldn't even be bidding

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Bandit, I think that the way that the trust is set up really hinders bidders that they don't want. It is not some blind auction where everyone submits a bid and the highest number wins. Whose to say that they don't go back to Pegula and say "we need you to be at $___?" I sell small businesses now for a living and I have done stuff like this to get the best fit in place. If there is a better buyer I will try to get them up to a price and terms that best satisfy the seller. You really can't reveal other's bids as a broker (the trust may actually be able to which would be a game changer). Either way, it really isn't a fair process for everyone. I would not even be a little surprised if this kind of thing goes on. The NDA is strictly in place to keep their financial information private.

 

On a side note I will gladly accept your offer. It is tough to get Canadian beers down here.

 

A little bit of both. If they want a shot at the team they are going to have to commit to WNY otherwise they will pick someone else. They will not accept them at their word either.

 

Nor would I...in fact I half expect it.

 

 

We have not heard otherwise and there's no way they would sign something saying they HAVE to stay in Buffalo because they need a new stadium and they would have no leverage to get the state to put money in if the state knew they had to stay. Even Ralph would threaten to leave during negotiations. It's the only hand owners have when negotiating leases. If the Toronto group had to stay in Buffalo then they wouldn't even be bidding

 

I'm not sure they're terribly worried about the state pitching in money, nor am I convinced that the state would contribute nothing to the pot. Yes, it would be a negotiation, but the amount that the state would be expected to provide isn't exactly mind-blowing. The team will provide a good amount, as would the local municipality; kick in low-interest cash from the NFL's G4 program and you're most of the way there.

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stony Veteran

stony

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Anything in this board that I have ever said would happened has come true. Most recently "sources" are saying that Cordy Glenn will be back for at least 1 preseason game and the start of the regular season. I said that 5 minutes after the rumors started that he would be out for a long time. If you choose to wait and see -go for it. I have gotten about 30 PMs from people saying thank you for sharing what I know. With that being said I will continue to do so.

 

1/4 of the people that voted that the Toronto group would keep the team in WNY are probably 2 of the most plugged in posters on the board. That is why I asked to make it a public poll. Regardless of how many people think that they will keep the team, that will be the case. JBJ and company would rather have a team in TO but that isn't an option here. They want an NFL team 1st and a team in Toronto 2nd.

 

Lastly, there will not be a $2B offer like the Clips. There are no local TV rights associated with the NFL which is why the Dodgers and Clippers sold for $2B. There are a lot of groups bidding on the Bills and the number will be higher than experts have speculated. I have been stuck on $1.2B since the process started. Nothing has changed my mind to think that it will be lower.

 

Thank you for driving this home. Many people think given the Clippers sale, all of a sudden NFL prices will go through the roof. Not true, as you point out.

 

NBA teams benefit from local and national deals, as well as a new projected streaming deal overseas with China I believe. It'll be hard for some to comprehend as football is more popular in America, but soon, many NBA teams will be more valuable than NFL teams given the popularity of basketball world-wide.

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mannc Hall of Famer

mannc

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A little bit of both. If they want a shot at the team they are going to have to commit to WNY otherwise they will pick someone else. They will not accept them at their word either.

How do you know this? Have the terms of the trust been made public?
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richNjoisy RFA

richNjoisy

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Kirby - first off, thanks for the input you provide.

 

Your latest comment (which I bet you already posted but I can't recall) pretty clearly states that any bidder must IN WRITING agree to never move the Bills

(you just wrote, "their word won't be good enough"). But I am trying to get a handle on what this would mean for ANY bidder (even if it were Jim Kelly which I know is ridiculous but I am using him as the "guy who would never move the Bills" example). How can a multi- billionaire sign away all his/her rights to

at least have the option of running their business where they want to? They could never use the threat to get money for stadium repairs, etc etc. Ralph never truly intended to move the team but he sure used the threat occasionally, didn't he? We have had a few (pseudo?) lawyers on this site talking about how contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on. So, are you still certain that any buyer will not have the option...at all.....to move the team....ever?

 

Well, hopefully, the signed document will have enough teeth to keep the team in Buffalo. But, I'm no lawyer...... Thanks again KJ for your posts.

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mannc Hall of Famer

mannc

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No, but rest assured, he knows (seriously).

Even if there were such a provision in the trust, which I doubt, I can't think of any way it could be enforced. The winning bidder certainly won't have to post an "I won't move the Bills" bond, and a restrictive covenant in the sale agreement would most likely be unenforceable in court. So you are left with only a non-binding statement of intent by the new buyer. That statement of intent will be worth even less in six years than it is worth now.
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CodeMonkey All Pro

CodeMonkey

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Even if there were such a provision in the trust, which I doubt, I can't think of any way it could be enforced. The winning bidder certainly won't have to post an "I won't move the Bills" bond, and a restrictive covenant in the sale agreement would most likely be unenforceable in court. So you are left with only a non-binding statement of intent by the new buyer. That statement of intent will be worth even less in six years than it is worth now.

Of course. But it makes Bills fans feel better right now, which I believe is the main intent.

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Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

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Bandit, I think that the way that the trust is set up really hinders bidders that they don't want. It is not some blind auction where everyone submits a bid and the highest number wins. Whose to say that they don't go back to Pegula and say "we need you to be at $___?" I sell small businesses now for a living and I have done stuff like this to get the best fit in place. If there is a better buyer I will try to get them up to a price and terms that best satisfy the seller. You really can't reveal other's bids as a broker (the trust may actually be able to which would be a game changer). Either way, it really isn't a fair process for everyone. I would not even be a little surprised if this kind of thing goes on. The NDA is strictly in place to keep their financial information private.

 

On a side note I will gladly accept your offer. It is tough to get Canadian beers down here.

Wait, I thought Ralph told some reporter that the Bills would be auctioned-off to the highest bidder. You mean that's not true? ;)

 

A little bit of both. If they want a shot at the team they are going to have to commit to WNY otherwise they will pick someone else. They will not accept them at their word either.

Unless they require the Toronto group to sign an agreement that says they will never move the team, their word means jack squat. I don't see them getting the team, period.

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CodeMonkey All Pro

CodeMonkey

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@john_kucko: From @SenSchumer "when it comes to the next owner of the Bills there can be only one litmus test: someone willing to keep the Bills in WNY."

So the only thing that matters (or at least should matter) to the trustees is if the new owner would keep the Bills in WNY. Bidding price be damned I guess huh.

Well, Chuckles is nothing if not his own best PR man ;)

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A Dog Named Kelso RFA

A Dog Named Kelso

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We appreciate your input and you have a good track record here. But sometimes you have to read between the lines. It's pretty obvious that the Toronto group is only saying they would stay in Buffalo because they have to in order to get the team.

 

Step 1: Say you will stay in Buffalo (cross your fingers)

Step 2: Buy the team

Step 3: Say all the right things and stall

Step 4: Make unreasonable demands for a new stadium

Step 5: Say "sorry we tried to make it work in Buffalo" and then move to Toronto in 2020 or 2022

 

They can not just say "... it did not work in Buffalo". There are rules in place to prevent teams from just uprooting. I think if the local communities are working with the team in good faith to keep the team in its current location they can not just move. This is not just the team talking with the counties or state it is also the NFL so, the JBJ group couldn't just say "They aren't helping" and pull stakes without NFL picking up the phone and checking out their story.

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JCBoston RFA

JCBoston

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They can not just say "... it did not work in Buffalo". There are rules in place to prevent teams from just uprooting. I think if the local communities are working with the team in good faith to keep the team in its current location they can not just move. This is not just the team talking with the counties or state it is also the NFL so, the JBJ group couldn't just say "They aren't helping" and pull stakes without NFL picking up the phone and checking out their story.

 

Art Modell is not available for comment.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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and then they moved :(

 

They were not permitted to move until the court case got settled--and it only got settled when the City of Cleveland accepted a new team in lieu of forcing their existing team to stay.

 

I'd say that's slightly different than "and then they moved".

 

For the life of me I'll never understand why some fans are so determined to convince themselves that this team is/could be leaving.

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The Wiz Hall of Famer

The Wiz

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They were not permitted to move until the court case got settled--and it only got settled when the City of Cleveland accepted a new team in lieu of forcing their existing team to stay.

 

I'd say that's slightly different than "and then they moved".

 

For the life of me I'll never understand why some fans are so determined to convince themselves that this team is/could be leaving.

Because doom and gloom goes well with beef on wick.

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Kelly the Dog Hall of Famer

Kelly the Dog

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How do you think it will be for a guy who is used to being cheered wildly every time to goes out in public to spend eight straight years being booed everywhere he goes in the city where he owns the team. Not even being able to show his face in the stadium because 90% of the fans would believe he is the worst man on the planet and the biggest lier in the world. And every time there is a press conference for eight straight years he has to answer the same questions about lying to the fans, and how does it feel to know no one believes a word you say?

 

That's right. It ain't gonna happen. It would be an impossible situation.

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PromoTheRobot Hall of Famer

PromoTheRobot

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Posted (edited)

So the only thing that matters (or at least should matter) to the trustees is if the new owner would keep the Bills in WNY. Bidding price be damned I guess huh.

Well, Chuckles is nothing if not his own best PR man ;)

 

If the Toronto bid is 20% higher, then no. 5% higher absolutely!

Edited by PromoTheRobot
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8-8 Forever? Veteran

8-8 Forever?

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I wonder why Trump thinks he is out of it? If the team is required to stay in WNY with no way out, that should depress the value of the team to a point where Trump should be competitive... must be something else.

 

BTW , whatever happened to the real Kirby Jackson (the player)?

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CodeMonkey All Pro

CodeMonkey

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I wonder why Trump thinks he is out of it? If the team is required to stay in WNY with no way out, that should depress the value of the team to a point where Trump should be competitive... must be something else.

I suspect he knows that this isn't a one-and-done bidding process. It is widely believed that the trustees will pick a couple bidders they like, then pit them one against another to get the best price they can. I don't see Trump being able to stay in that game with the likes of Pegula or the JBJ group. And I think he knows that as well.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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If the team is required to stay in WNY with no way out, that should depress the value of the team to a point where Trump should be competitive

 

Are you under the assumption that there aren't multiple bidders that would keep the team here, or are you simply assuming that these multiple bidders have less money than the Toronto group?

 

 

... must be something else.

 

Yes, other potential owners have a lot more money (and liquidity)

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jimmy10 Veteran

jimmy10

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It was stated from the beginning of the process that the bank doing the valuation of the team may seek out potential bidders from among their high-net worth clients. So, people with bottomless pockets who hadn't even thought of owning an NFL team until the bank came calling.

 

THAT is what I'm currently worried about, these as-of-yet unnamed variables in the equation.

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bbb Hall of Famer

bbb

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How do you think it will be for a guy who is used to being cheered wildly every time to goes out in public to spend eight straight years being booed everywhere he goes in the city where he owns the team.

 

I thought we had dismissed Trump...

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Kelly the Dog Hall of Famer

Kelly the Dog

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I thought we had dismissed Trump...

He is surely not used to being cheered everywhere he goes. ;)

 

I know you were kidding somewhat, but I bet it would really get to someone like Bon Jovi, a rock star, who just gets cheered and soaks in the adulation every night he performs. And would be getting booed in his own, for all intents and purposes, city and stadium. Answering questions would get tiresome to say the least, like when Jerry Sullivan say, "Hey, Jon, how does it feel for your children to know you are a bad faced liar to everyone in the country?" for eight straight years.

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TheFunPolice Hall of Famer

TheFunPolice

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Congel teaming up with TO group now?

@john_wawrow: UPDATED: Trump says his #Bills bid unlikely to win | Pro32: Head to Head http://t.co/Le7DnXSJXg ... AP source: Congel to meet with TO group

 

I just worry that the fix is in somehow for this stupid Bon Jovi group.

 

As soon as you start to feel ok that they might have blown it new stories come up making them seem more threatening than ever.

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YoloinOhio Hall of Famer

YoloinOhio

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I just worry that the fix is in somehow for this stupid Bon Jovi group.

 

As soon as you start to feel ok that they might have blown it new stories come up making them seem more threatening than ever.

the congel meeting makes them look worse IMO.
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