Delusional Bills Optimist Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/22/ray-farmer-open-to-trading-for-receiver-but-doesnt-think-he-needs-a-big-time-one/ How about this pitch: TJ to the Browns for a conditional 7th (becomes a 6th based on playing time)? Coach has some familiarity with the player. TJ's raw, but is young, on a manageable contract and does have some decent measurables. He looks like he could be the odd man out here. Might as well get something for him if you can. If you're Doug Whaley, do you at least make the call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 "possibly" looking to add?! Oh, and YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Buy High and Sell Low is not a great investment strategy....except when it comes to TJ Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awwufelloff Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) TJ and Goodwin were at my gym the other day signing autographs. They were talking about how motivated they are for the season. I'd give him one more year to prove himself. Edited May 22, 2014 by Awwufelloff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 If Whaley makes the call. The response would be laughter. He can be had for a bag of footballs. Or better yet free in a few months. In another year he will be studying at the Aaron Maybin school of fine Arts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 TJ and Goodwin were at my gym the other day signing autographs. They were talking about how motivated they are for the season. I'd give him one more year to prove himself. I agree, dont see what the point would be to trading him for a conditional 7th at worst he is their 5th WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 http://profootballta...a-big-time-one/ How about this pitch: TJ to the Browns for a conditional 7th (becomes a 6th based on playing time)? Coach has some familiarity with the player. TJ's raw, but is young, on a manageable contract and does have some decent measurables. He looks like he could be the odd man out here. Might as well get something for him if you can. If you're Doug Whaley, do you at least make the call? We will not get anything for him. Also, I would have to think Pettine being familiar with the player would lead more to the side of not wanting him! I agree get anything you can for him, but, nobody will give us anything for him! Buy High and Sell Low is not a great investment strategy....except when it comes to TJ Graham Funny! If Whaley makes the call. The response would be laughter. He can be had for a bag of footballs. Or better yet free in a few months. In another year he will be studying at the Aaron Maybin school of fine Arts. Also, very funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delusional Bills Optimist Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 If Whaley makes the call. The response would be laughter. He can be had for a bag of footballs. Or better yet free in a few months. In another year he will be studying at the Aaron Maybin school of fine Arts. I don't disagree that by August they might be able to pick him up for nothing, but, if they bring him in now, they would at least have camp to get him acclimated to their offense. Given that he doesn't have the traditional amount of experience at the position, I would suspect that they would rather not bring him in cold, ten days before week one. Also, given Gordon's track record and prospects of pulling his head out of his butt, he, too, might be joining Maybin before too long. I agree, dont see what the point would be to trading him for a conditional 7th at worst he is their 5th WR I guess the point would simply be a hedge against cutting him and receiving nothing. And, given, our lack of a 1st rounder next year, you never know when an additional 5 or 20 draft value points might come in handy. It couldn't hurt to have more ammo for trading up into the1st round. IIRC, NE recently traded their late-1st rounder for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th. Barring an amazing turnaround, I think TJ's best-case scenario is being the 5th WR. I'm not sure that alone gets him a roster spot, unless he has developed into a ST stud (To be honest, maybe he already is, but I have no recollection of noticing him on STs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) TJ and Goodwin were at my gym the other day signing autographs. They were talking about how motivated they are for the season. I'd give him one more year to prove himself. As much as it pains me , I agree .Damn me! But i would like to take advantage of Farmers announcement somehow and get a pick back . Edited May 22, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I thought that Cleveland would have been a logical destination for Stevie. Pick 9, next year's 1st and Stevie for Watkins. I really thought that the Bills were going to use a player to move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I thought that Cleveland would have been a logical destination for Stevie. Pick 9, next year's 1st and Stevie for Watkins. I really thought that the Bills were going to use a player to move up. Word is that Pettine nixed the inclusion of Stevie in the big trade up for Sammie. They negotiated a 4th round pick next year instead. They knew about Gordon's probable suspension at the time, too. That's how much Pettine didn't want Stevie on the team. I'll say this, though. I certainly was surprised. I thought it was a good match, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) http://profootballta...a-big-time-one/ How about this pitch: TJ to the Browns for a conditional 7th (becomes a 6th based on playing time)? Coach has some familiarity with the player. TJ's raw, but is young, on a manageable contract and does have some decent measurables. He looks like he could be the odd man out here. Might as well get something for him if you can. If you're Doug Whaley, do you at least make the call? See above; that's probably why the Browns wouldn't do that deal. They got rid of Little because of inconsistent play and dropped balls. Not sure they would want to get a guy who's patented move is the jump body-catch. Edited May 22, 2014 by JR in Pittsburgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 TJ and Goodwin were at my gym the other day signing autographs. They were talking about how motivated they are for the season. I'd give him one more year to prove himself. there were certainly times he was open deep and the ball wasn't there. TJ strikes me as a "talent" that will take this 3rd year to determine his worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 7-11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 7-11 See also "Bag of Footballs" above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Word is that Pettine nixed the inclusion of Stevie in the big trade up for Sammie. They negotiated a 4th round pick next year instead. They knew about Gordon's probable suspension at the time, too. That's how much Pettine didn't want Stevie on the team. I'll say this, though. I certainly was surprised. I thought it was a good match, too. Interesting stuff, thanks for the insight!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 TJ for their 2015 1st rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Graham is trade bait, sure... but I think we're better off with him then some no-name Hogan or Kaufman type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 TJ for Skelton even up....Umm, where is Skelton these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I thought that Cleveland would have been a logical destination for Stevie. Pick 9, next year's 1st and Stevie for Watkins. I really thought that the Bills were going to use a player to move up. I also thought they MIGHT have been able to use a player to move up with Cleveland since Pettine knows them. I guess Cleveland and Pettine didn't want Stevie or Graham because they could have easily been tossed in the trade. Cleveland easily had the cap space for Stevie. I guess that speaks volumes of what Pettine, the Bills and Browns thought of Stevie. TJ for Skelton even up....Umm, where is Skelton these days? That never gets old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delusional Bills Optimist Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) Graham is trade bait, sure... but I think we're better off with him then some no-name Hogan or Kaufman type. Would you rather have TJ or Easley on the roster as your 5th WR? Serious question, no sarcasm whatsoever. Easley contributes on ST, but his WR contributions seem to be marginal, at best. TJ, on paper, should be the better WR, and he has scored a TD or two in regular season play, but I'm not sure what he contributes to ST. Which skillset would you value more from your 5th WR? I suppose you could keep both, as your 5th and 6th, but I would rather keep a player like Barden, just for the height and size he would bring, if nothing more. Edited May 22, 2014 by Delusional Bills Optimist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Graham is trade bait, sure... but I think we're better off with him then some no-name Hogan or Kaufman type. Bills seem high on Hogan AND Bills would be high to keep Graham. Our WRs in most likely order are... Watkins Williams Woods Goodwin Hogan Easley (STs) I think #7,#8 and #9 are Barden Elliot Graham If Barden has a good camp he will be #5 or #6. Also, not sure if Easley was replaced in the offseason with all the special teamers brought in? Anyone? Do we have a new gunner on the roster? Would you rather have TJ or Easley on the roster as your 5th WR? Serious question, no sarcasm whatsoever. Easley contributes on ST, but his WR contributions seem to be marginal, at best. TJ, on paper, should be the better WR, and he has scored a TD or two in regular season play, but I'm not sure what he contributes to ST. Which skillset would you value more from your 5th WR? I suppose you could keep both, as your 5th and 6th, but I would rather keep a player like Barden, just for the height and size he would bring, if nothing more. I strongly agree and would LOVE to keep Barden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Graham has only been in the league two years, and he's clearly a good athlete. It's not inconceivable at all for him to evolve into a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) Word is that Pettine nixed the inclusion of Stevie in the big trade up for Sammie. They negotiated a 4th round pick next year instead. They knew about Gordon's probable suspension at the time, too. That's how much Pettine didn't want Stevie on the team. I'll say this, though. I certainly was surprised. I thought it was a good match, too. I have a contact in another FO (not Bills or Browns) and this indeed the case that Stevie was part of the Bills trade options in the calls they were making. Pettine didn't want him on the team because he didn't think he would mesh with the culture he was trying to create (trying to shed the losing culture players and bring in winning culture players) - similar to what Marrone is doing. It was an attitude thing. Farmer wanted the draft pick instead. The Niners didn't have this issue. They already have a winning culture. Edited May 22, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Would you rather have TJ or Easley on the roster as your 5th WR? Serious question, no sarcasm whatsoever. Easley contributes on ST, but his WR contributions seem to be marginal, at best. TJ, on paper, should be the better WR, and he has scored a TD or two in regular season play, but I'm not sure what he contributes to ST. Which skillset would you value more from your 5th WR? I suppose you could keep both, as your 5th and 6th, but I would rather keep a player like Barden, just for the height and size he would bring, if nothing more. You can have both. I am a firm believer in ST and I do not even consider Easley a WR. Just like Tasker was not a WR, Mark Pike not a LB, and Gabe Northern not a LB...Easley isn't a WR. Sure, he can play the position, but I'd almost rather not risk injury to him by throwing him in a WR when we have such adequate depth. We will likely keep 6 WR's and I see no reason to keep 4 TE's, so maybe even 7 WR's. 1. M.Williams 2. Watkins 3. Woods 4a. Graham 4b. Goodwin the rest: Hogan, Barden, green ball of yarn. Goodwin is the first in to add a dynamic while if any of the top 3 go down Graham is the first one in. Goodwin cannot go in and play all 3 WR positions like Graham, Barden is unproven, Goodwin wouldn't last an entire game as number 1. Graham v. Barden... time to get your rose colored glasses cleaned: Barden: 4 years 29 rec 394 yards 0 TD's 29 games of 64 total Graham: 2 years 54 rec 683 yards 3 TD's 31 games of 32 What would you rather have in your first on the field back up WR - someone who's done nothing in 4 years or someone who has doubled nothing in 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 They need to see what they can get out of TJ through this years camp. There is too much raw athletic ability there to give up just yet. He needs to step up his game though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 TJ has speed and last year I thought his route running was better and he put on a few pounds of muscle - he seems like a fairly smart guy with the willingness to work so to me the question is basically his hands which were not so great and whether that is something that can be improved with hard work or if that is something you are pretty much born with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Since the Browns passed on the best WR in the draft, knowing their best WR was likely lost for the year, and did not subsequently address it, I would say they are probably desperate to sign any WR with pulse at this point. There is always next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Browns looking to add a Receiver? Water is Wet? Sh*t stinks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Didn't they just sign Miles Austin and a couple of other guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Bills seem high on Hogan AND Bills would be high to keep Graham. High is exactly the state you'd need to be in to believe that Hogan belongs in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I don't disagree that by August they might be able to pick him up for nothing, but, if they bring him in now, they would at least have camp to get him acclimated to their offense. Given that he doesn't have the traditional amount of experience at the position, I would suspect that they would rather not bring him in cold, ten days before week one. Also, given Gordon's track record and prospects of pulling his head out of his butt, he, too, might be joining Maybin before too long. I guess the point would simply be a hedge against cutting him and receiving nothing. And, given, our lack of a 1st rounder next year, you never know when an additional 5 or 20 draft value points might come in handy. It couldn't hurt to have more ammo for trading up into the1st round. IIRC, NE recently traded their late-1st rounder for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th. Barring an amazing turnaround, I think TJ's best-case scenario is being the 5th WR. I'm not sure that alone gets him a roster spot, unless he has developed into a ST stud (To be honest, maybe he already is, but I have no recollection of noticing him on STs). Graham might help us trade into the first round next year? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I thought that Cleveland would have been a logical destination for Stevie. Pick 9, next year's 1st and Stevie for Watkins. I really thought that the Bills were going to use a player to move up. me too. just made sense. Unless Pettine had an opinion that was less then good of him 7-11 Rob Moore actually mentioned him in that radio interview along with Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 The Niners didn't have this issue. They already have a winning culture. The 49's r a way more established team. SJ13 is probably going to b the 3rd or 4th option as well. Were in B-lo or Cleveland he is most likely a 1 or 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delusional Bills Optimist Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Graham might help us trade into the first round next year? Really? Sure, why not, assuming you can get a pick, even a 7th, for him. Most recent trades seem to be for consideration that is almost obsessively in line with the draft value chart, which is why you see teams switch in-round picks, or send low rounders back and forth. For example, let's assume that we finish 6-10 again and end up with the 10th pick in each of the 2nd-7th rounds. Our 2nd (480), 3rd (220), 4th (82), 5th (37), 5th from TB (let's say 35), 6th (23.4) and 7th (10.6) are worth 888 combined points. If we found a willing partner, that could get us to 19th overall. If we picked up another 7th for TJ (or anybody), the extra 12-15 points could get us up to 18th overall. An improbable scenario? Yes. Stupid? Probably. But's that's how TJ helps get us a 1st. And almost mid-first, at that. Let's not pretend that a large portion of this board isn't pissed that we don't have a 1st rounder next year. Consider this post just some salve for them. I actually hope TJ gets it together. I think the more talented WRs and RBs you can work into the lineup, the better. A fresh B. Brown or TJ stepping into the 4th quarter of hard fought game might be pretty tough for a worn out defense to stop. But, at the end of the day, I'm also a realist, and think that TJ might be the odd man out, as he is perhaps the only WR that wasn't brought in by this regime, or given kudos by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) trade Graham and a 7th for a 6th. trade that 6th plus Pears for a 5th. trade that 5th and Allan Branch for a 4th trade that 4th and EJ Manuel for a 3rd. Trade that third and Fred Jackson for a 2nd Trade that second and Sammy Watkins for a 1st. See, Graham can help us trade up to get a first. #GrahamforHOF Edited May 22, 2014 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Sure, why not, assuming you can get a pick, even a 7th, for him. Most recent trades seem to be for consideration that is almost obsessively in line with the draft value chart, which is why you see teams switch in-round picks, or send low rounders back and forth. For example, let's assume that we finish 6-10 again and end up with the 10th pick in each of the 2nd-7th rounds. Our 2nd (480), 3rd (220), 4th (82), 5th (37), 5th from TB (let's say 35), 6th (23.4) and 7th (10.6) are worth 888 combined points. If we found a willing partner, that could get us to 19th overall. If we picked up another 7th for TJ (or anybody), the extra 12-15 points could get us up to 18th overall. An improbable scenario? Yes. Stupid? Probably. But's that's how TJ helps get us a 1st. And almost mid-first, at that. Let's not pretend that a large portion of this board isn't pissed that we don't have a 1st rounder next year. Consider this post just some salve for them. I actually hope TJ gets it together. I think the more talented WRs and RBs you can work into the lineup, the better. A fresh B. Brown or TJ stepping into the 4th quarter of hard fought game might be pretty tough for a worn out defense to stop. But, at the end of the day, I'm also a realist, and think that TJ might be the odd man out, as he is perhaps the only WR that wasn't brought in by this regime, or given kudos by them. i guess I just find the whole idea of fans/pundits suggesting trades to be pretty funny. I can honestly say I have never heard anyone predict a trade(not one that has been rumored about)accurately. It's usually fans trying to trade our junk for their quality- like we can fool them into thinking that crappy player is really a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delusional Bills Optimist Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 trade Graham and a 7th for a 6th. trade that 6th plus Pears for a 5th. trade that 5th and Allan Branch for a 4th trade that 4th and EJ Manuel for a 3rd. Trade that third and Fred Jackson for a 2nd Trade that second and Sammy Watkins for a 1st. See, Graham can help us trade up to get a first. #GrahamforHOF Trade that first for Skelton. I like where this is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Trade that first for Skelton. I like where this is going. Been here a while, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 TJ was just on the John Murphy Show and man, he seems like a GREAT guy. If only character won games. Anyway, he is putting on a free camp/skills challenge for HS kids Saturday at the field house. He funds it all himself. They get a free shirt and food too. Nice when players give back. TJ Graham @SpeedBi11s May 18 Saturday May 24th 12pm @buffalobills FieldHouse Free for all HS football players More info at http://TJgrahamskillschallenge.com pic.twitter.com/K9NulZD2GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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