FWIW Bill Polian wasn't too keen on part of our draft.

[Tipster19]

I caught only the end of the interview on Sirius radio but Polian was asked about general draft strategy/selection value and twice he referred to what the Bills did. The first reference was something to the effect of Buffalo paying a VERY steep price for Watkins, especially if such a player doesn't make the difference in making the play-offs and if we don't then he REALLY thinks that we got robbed. He said the difference withe the Cornelius Bennett trade was that Bennett was the piece that really put the team together and that he (we) got VERY lucky/fortunate that we were able to get Thurman Thomas the next year in the 2nd rd, our first pick due to the compensation that was paid for Bennett.

 

The second reference was made about our 7th rd pick (OT Seantrel Henderson) when they were discussing what would make him exclude a player from being considered as a selection. Polian said almost per batim that he didn't know where that was going to get us. Ouch, I was kind of excited about that pick, hoping that we might have found a hidden diamond.

 

I'm not so elated about this draft like I was before today. I sure hope that Polian is being just a bit harsh in his evaluations but him and Gil Brandt are the 2 that I revere the most when it comes to football knowledge and insights. I didn't catch much commentary during and after our draft so any input is welcomed.

[Kipers Hair]

BP is admittedly conservative and would not have endorsed that deal. I understand he did not even have Gronkowski on their draft board due to concerns with his back - a guy like our troubled OT from the U would similarly never have made his... In the end, we swung for the fences and hopefully we get a couple of runs...

[RuntheDamnBall]

BP is admittedly conservative and would not have endorsed that deal. I understand he did not even have Gronkowski on their draft board due to concerns with his back - a guy like our troubled OT from the U would similarly never have made his... In the end, we swung for the fences and hopefully we get a couple of runs...

Cornelius Bennett?

 

Thurman had injury troubles...

[Kellyto83TD]

If not for BP the Bills would have never amounted to anything. That said, he is out of the league now for a reason.

[Kipers Hair]

 

Cornelius Bennett?

 

Thurman had injury troubles...

those comments were straight from BP's mouth earlier this AM...and even then, I didn't think it fair for him to say because of the Bennett trade. He just sounds like he is not sold on EJ, which makes the Watkins trade a waste to him. Literally did not have Gronkowski on his board while at Indy - their medical said the next back injury could end his career...

[Rubes]

I don't buy his argument about Bennett.

 

If you think about it, the trade occurred in 1987, right after the players' strike ended. The year before (1986), the Bills went 4-12. At the time of the trade, the Bills were 3-3. There was definitely a sense that the Bills were on the rise, but it's not like they were a player away or anything. They still had a lot of team needs, and Polian still mortgaged the future -- remember, that was a player in exchange for the following year's #1 and #2, and the year after that's #1. That's huge, much larger than this one. For a team that just came off a 4-12 campaign.

[Mr. WEO]

If he said it almost per batim, it means he was just kidding.

[Tipster19]

I understand he did not even have Gronkowski on their draft board due to concerns with his back -

 

It's funny that you said that because he mentioned that as well. He said Dungy and Caldwell and one other administrator wanted to pass on Gronk because they couldn't rely on Gronk and Dungy didn't want to carry an extra TE in case he went down for any period of time. Polian then stated that he asked one more time like, "Are you sure that you want to pass on him because we'll have to play against him", or something very well to that effect. I must say that BP was talking very UnPolian like and I was left with some uneasiness about what our FO was doing. I'll go on record now, with all due respect to BP, I like what we did in our draft and I'm fully on board with it. I like it not only for the player(s) that we got but also getting out from under Stevie's contract and I know that this may sound callous and is VERY unpopular but also replacing and, I think, improving immensely on this position. As much as I love Stevie and appreciate how much he liked being a Bill, he was unreliable and dropped too many crucial passes. We needed to improve at the #WR position and he wasn't the answer, no matter how much we all loved him. I also feel that if we make the play-offs, and I feel that that it's very realistic, especially with Watkins, our former 1st rd pick next year will start at #20 or later, especially if we were to win 1 play-off game then it will convert to being in the late 20's. To me that is worth the risk and compensation.

[JohnC]

I don't buy his argument about Bennett.

 

If you think about it, the trade occurred in 1987, right after the players' strike ended. The year before (1986), the Bills went 4-12. At the time of the trade, the Bills were 3-3. There was definitely a sense that the Bills were on the rise, but it's not like they were a player away or anything. They still had a lot of team needs, and Polian still mortgaged the future -- remember, that was a player in exchange for the following year's #1 and #2, and the year after that's #1. That's huge, much larger than this one. For a team that just came off a 4-12 campaign.

 

There is little mystery as to whether the Watkins trade up deal and its cost is worth it or not. It boils down to how EJ plays. If he struggles then the superlative talent that Watkins possesses will be squandered, as will the talents of Goodwin, Willians and Woods. Whaley and the coaching staff believe (hope) that Manuel will take a major step forward from his middling rookie season. The organization is taking a calculated gamble that the qb that they selected last year with their first round pick will develop into a legitimate franchise qb.

 

 

[BringBackFergy]

If he said it almost per batim, it means he was just kidding.

Nice catch...And if he was at Mass he would be mass per batim.

[boyst]

I wish I would have heard it. BP is very interesting to listen to. Sirius NFL Radio has the most knowledgeable football guys in the business. From Gil Brandt to Ross Tucker there are entire generations in between and even younger. Rich Gannon is horrible on TV but if you listen to him get in to some real football talk on Sirius you realize how f'n smart that guy is and you might be like me; you might look back at his career and see things entirely different. The guy might be HOF worthy, MIGHT. And I hate Rich Gannon the TV guy and never really liked him as a player, either. But, he played smart and it shows when he speaks. Pat Kirwan, Jim Miller, Alex Marvez, Vic Carruci, and Steve Torre really solidify a core unit of folks. The rest - are just as good.

 

Polian, however, will say many things that open your eyes to a better perspective of what the goings-on are in the league on a behind the scenes and in the office viewpoint. Some times he will be out of touch on what reality is - I forget his Tim Tebow statements, but they reflect this. It was something along the line of him being a HOF running back / H-Back. Bill Polian is a great football mind and will know twice as much as the average football fan and 1/2 of what I will ever know but much like every other NFL mind he cannot keep up. And this is not a knock against him, it is just reality. Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden, and our own Marv Levy are examples of this. If anyone should be praised for their overall knowledge and expertise on the NFL, Gil Brandt is still the best NFL mind out there - an 81 year old man his mark in the NFL started in the 1950's, over 60 years ago and his contribution to the game is still exhibited every year in every scouting report.

 

Sorry to be all over the place, I am tired as hell...but yeah, Sirius NFL Radio is amazing.

 

Nice catch...And if he was at Mass he would be mass per batim.

it was an easy catch, it really sticks.

[PIZ]

Bill Polian is out of the league for a reason. He's complaining about a 7th round pick with 1st round ability? Those are the kind of picks you make in the 7th round. If you get anything out of a 7th rounder, it is a plus.

[boyst]

Bill Polian is out of the league for a reason. He's complaining about a 7th round pick with 1st round ability? Those are the kind of picks you make in the 7th round. If you get anything out of a 7th rounder, it is a plus.

We didn't hear it in context, and in fairness it looks as if he was asked. Clearly he keeps tabs on the Bills, and that he has an opinion about what we did - well, I am thankful.

 

If he would have said nothing at all, would we have a thread "Bill Polian hates us!" "He didn't bring us up one time today on NFLN!!!! !@#$!"

[CA OC Bills Fan]

I heard the interview this morning with BP. A couple of things:

- I didn't get the impression that he was completely negative on the Watkins trade, just that we gave up a lot and that we're betting a second (or third including next year) draft on EJ. If EJ works out, it's ok.

- The quotes above about Gronkowski very accurately depict what he said about Gronk not being on his draft board and his comments in the draft room about it. It was very insightful. But, he went on to say that in the win now league as it is, these decisions are evolving. If the player will be good for a few years, that's ok whereas in the past you wanted longevity.

- He did make the comment out "the Bills 7th round pick of the kid from Miami is a head scratcher" when he was talking about taking a chance on some kids with character flaws. He said that right after saying that it's fine to have a few. But, as Piz said, a 7th rounder, so what if he flames out.

 

On a different note, a couple of comments about Gil Brandt.

- Last week he was asked about trading up for Watkins. He replied that you never trade up high in the draft for a skill player unless it's a quarterback. I was then listening to him on Sirius XM when the Bills trade was announced. He immediately said, "the Bills pick is Mathews, you can bank on it." When it was announced as Watkins, he didn't have much to say at all. Although I never heard him say it, I don't think he liked the trade / pick.

[Green Lightning]

Thurman ended up in the second round because teams were concereabout his knee injuries. Glad BP didn't flinch then.

[BillsVet]

First, there is no tarnish to Polian's career. He's out of the league because the man's 70 now and it's very much a young man's game or you happen to be hired by the Bills in 2006 or 2010. No one collected more talent both before and after the cap came into effect. No one. He's a HOF GM.

 

BP is admittedly conservative and would not have endorsed that deal. I understand he did not even have Gronkowski on their draft board due to concerns with his back - a guy like our troubled OT from the U would similarly never have made his... In the end, we swung for the fences and hopefully we get a couple of runs...

 

Gronkowski's injury history is one thing...as we've seen players are viewed differently by each team. See Kouandjio. Henderson has gotten into trouble with the law and is thus a completely separate case. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

 

I don't buy his argument about Bennett.

 

If you think about it, the trade occurred in 1987, right after the players' strike ended. The year before (1986), the Bills went 4-12. At the time of the trade, the Bills were 3-3. There was definitely a sense that the Bills were on the rise, but it's not like they were a player away or anything. They still had a lot of team needs, and Polian still mortgaged the future -- remember, that was a player in exchange for the following year's #1 and #2, and the year after that's #1. That's huge, much larger than this one. For a team that just came off a 4-12 campaign.

 

1987 was 27 years ago and the NFL was a completely different game. Comparing personnel decisions made before the cap and after is not appropriate for the discussion. I get that people here want to run down anyone who doesn't high five the Bills draft, but Polian's legacy is settled and he'll be in Canton one day. Back then, the Bills didn't have any other method (and I believe it was before even Plan B FA) to acquire players.

 

Besides, as others have noted, BP knew he had a QB, a premier DE and a lot of other outstanding players in an era which wasn't as pass happy.

[maddenboy]

If he said it almost per batim, it means he was just kidding.

gentlemen, be nice. Its only a couple days after the draft and we are all a little giddy.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/verbatim

[CardinalScotts]

Bill Polian is out of the league for a reason. He's complaining about a 7th round pick with 1st round ability? Those are the kind of picks you make in the 7th round. If you get anything out of a 7th rounder, it is a plus.

 

actually Polian was great at finding guys in later rounds he just wasnt very good with the 1st rounders

[KollegeStudnet]

Polian's view on Henderson was a legit one. He has all the potential, but has had issues in college with that said potential

[jimmy10]

Gosh, well let me hop in my Delorean and set it for 1991 so I can give a damn what Bill Polian thinks of our draft.

 

NOBODY is qualified to grade a draft until we actually see these guys play.

[RuntheDamnBall]

It's real easy to get on a high horse when you luck into HOF QBs. The Carolina job stands out as the one where Polian may have done the most impressive work.

 

Not belittling the man or his achievements, but come on.

[bills_believer]

What I have read, most people think the Bills gave up too much to get Watkins.It seems to me like Marrone is hell bent on proving that he made the right choice in drafting EJ last year.

 

Does it matter what Poian and other analysts think about our draft? I used to believe whatever spin the Bills' front office put on their drafts, trades, etc., but somewhere along this playoff drought, I stopped drinking the kool-aid and began listening more to outside analysts even when they were saying things I didn't want to hear.

 

They did give up too much for Watkins and it has been foolish not to invest in a viable back up for EJ.

[KOKBILLS]

BP is admittedly conservative and would not have endorsed that deal. I understand he did not even have Gronkowski on their draft board due to concerns with his back - a guy like our troubled OT from the U would similarly never have made his... In the end, we swung for the fences and hopefully we get a couple of runs...

 

I watched the replay of the later rounds on ESPN and he was obviously not OK with the Henderson pick either...

 

That being said...I was not in favor of giving up the 1st either...But I disagree with Polian writing it off like it can't have a similar effect to the Bennett trade...I think Polian is falling in line with most other analysts who are looking at this Bills team and assuming they are not very good...And that they can't get very good quickly if everything falls in line...I really don't see his logic as far as the Bennett trade comparison...And I'm not even saying Watkins will have a similar effect...But I am saying there is no reason why he can't have a similar effect at this point...The truth is the Bills were coming off a 4-12 season when they made the Bennett trade...This Bills team is coming off a 6-10 season...That Bills team had a very nice core set of players already in place...So does this one...But more than anything, that 1987 class, not just Biscuit, is what helped the Bills take a HUGE leap towards becoming the team they would eventually become...That 87 class was beyond impressive...It brought Biscuit, Conlan, Odomes, Mueller, Leon Seals, McKeller, and House Ballard...Even without Biscuit that was a hell of a good haul for one Draft...So yes...Getting Biscuit was huge...He's my favorite Bills player of all time...But it took a heck of a lot more to build that incredible roster...

 

So lets just say this Draft brings us a star WR in Watkins, a Pro Bowl caliber RT in Kouandjio, and a Pro Bowl caliber OG in Richardson, along with a solid Nickel DB in Cockrell, a 4th LB in Preston Brown, a solid rotation RB and eventual replacement for Freddie in Bryce Brown, and a #2 WR in Williams...That's a potential major step towards being a good team...Right? So maybe the Watkins trade does end up being the catalyst for future success because the Bills are building a very solid roster...Maybe?

 

The main question is obvious...Can EJ grow into at least a fraction of the leader on and off the field that Jimbo was?...That's really going to be the big question...Because even with the Bennett trade, like Polian admitted, the Bills needed to get that final piece (which was TT) to grow into a Championship team even after trading for Biscuit and having a roster that was becoming loaded...So what he's basically saying is they needed a little luck too...I'm sure this Bills team will need something like that to happen...Like maybe Bryce Brown turns into something really, really special for a few years...But I really don't see why this trade can't be the exact same type of boost to the Bills as the Biscuit trade was...I can also see how it can potential backfire as well...Nobody really knows...Including Polian...

[Dragonborn10]

BP is the best thing to ever happen to the Bills but he left the cupboard so bare that one injury to his team's QB and they went from SB contender to 2-14.

[Rubes]

1987 was 27 years ago and the NFL was a completely different game. Comparing personnel decisions made before the cap and after is not appropriate for the discussion. I get that people here want to run down anyone who doesn't high five the Bills draft, but Polian's legacy is settled and he'll be in Canton one day. Back then, the Bills didn't have any other method (and I believe it was before even Plan B FA) to acquire players.

 

Besides, as others have noted, BP knew he had a QB, a premier DE and a lot of other outstanding players in an era which wasn't as pass happy.

 

I don't think it's particularly fair to lump my critique in with the knee-jerk "run down anyone who doesn't high five the Bills draft" reaction, either. I have absolute respect for Polian and his body of work, and I'm definitely not one of those that believes the game has passed him by, by any means.

 

I also don't buy the argument that you can't compare personnel decisions from the late 80s with today. Teams were constructed differently, sure. But like you say, back then the draft was the #1 way of acquiring players and filling out a team, other than trades. So in that situation, draft picks -- especially high draft picks -- were extremely valuable. Nowadays, if you don't have a #1 pick, you can always try your luck acquiring a great player via free agency.

 

But to me, this just shows that trading away your #1 and #2 picks the following year, plus your #1 the year after that, was a huge gamble, moreso than the Watkins trade.

 

And yes, he did have a franchise QB. But let's not forget that, in early 1987, Bruce still had not fully lived up to his billing as a #1 overall pick. And as mentioned, this was a team that had gone 4-12 the year before. There was a lot of young talent on that team, but much of it was still unproven at that time. This was still a team very much in rebuilding mode, not a team that most believed was one impact LB away from the big dance.

[John from Riverside]

I have a lot of respect for Polian.....

 

That said....its a passing league even more then it was in Polians time.......

 

- Yes...they are banking on EJ Manuel being the QB that they need.....and not having the 1st next year is concerning from that stand point....but the fact of the matter is we probably will not be picking high enough in the 1st round anyway to even USE that 1st round pick on a QB...AND....they are not going to give up on EJ Manuel after next year nor should they unless he shows another injury riddled season

 

- What you are doing is using yoru 1st round pick on a once over 6 years or so wide reciever......you are saying "Hey EJ....we are giving you a blue chip wide out, more weapons, and improved protection...no take the next step son"

[Kelly the Dog]

Thurman ended up in the second round because teams were concereabout his knee injuries. Glad BP didn't flinch then.

Similar to Kujo actually, although not entirely the same. Thurman has a knee injury two years before the draft. He played basically two entire seasons after his injury, including his senior season when he had 250+ carries for 1600+ yards.

[KOKBILLS]

Similar to Kujo actually, although not entirely the same. Thurman has a knee injury two years before the draft. He played basically two entire seasons after his injury, including his senior season when he had 250+ carries for 1600+ yards.

 

I thought it was basically the same...Kouandjio was cleared to play after his surgery for Spring Practice in 2012...He played every game since and did not miss a practice either...That's the 2012 and 2013 seasons...Two full seasons...

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24470778/dr-james-andrews-says-no-issues-with-cyrus-kouandjios-knee

[Kelly the Dog]

I thought it was basically the same...Kouandjio was cleared to play after his surgery for Spring Practice in 2012...He played every game since and did not miss a practice either...That's the 2012 and 2013 seasons...Two full seasons...

 

http://www.cbssports...kouandjios-knee

In that respect, yes, it was a lot similar. I was referring to the fact that, I think, Kujo actually had surgery on it, and that I don't even think Thurman ever had surgery but I'm not sure. So teams were somewhat worried about them for different reasons, although it was about a knee injury two years before.

 

One article I read said Thurman failed the first Bills physical, and the team even went as far as say, if he hurts it again, we'll just do the surgery on him. They wanted him that bad, and look what happened.

[satchy]

gentlemen, be nice. Its only a couple days after the draft and we are all a little giddy.

 

http://www.merriam-w...ionary/verbatim

 

Thank you

[thewildrabbit]

I don't buy his argument about Bennett.

 

If you think about it, the trade occurred in 1987, right after the players' strike ended. The year before (1986), the Bills went 4-12. At the time of the trade, the Bills were 3-3. There was definitely a sense that the Bills were on the rise, but it's not like they were a player away or anything. They still had a lot of team needs, and Polian still mortgaged the future -- remember, that was a player in exchange for the following year's #1 and #2, and the year after that's #1. That's huge, much larger than this one. For a team that just came off a 4-12 campaign.

Not if you watched Bennett play in college at Alabama, as I loved watching him along with Derrick Thomas. I was so very disappointed on draft day when Bennett was drafted by the division rival Colts #2 overall. Man that 86 Bama defense was awesome.

 

I loved every bit of taking Bennett away from the Colts and sticking it to them. Trust me, Robert Irsay crapped his pants when he saw where Bennett ended up.

 

Anyway, that trade occurred in Oct of 87 just before the trade deadline. I remember that 87 team as they had just drafted Shane Conlan, and had Talley on the outside, same side as Bruce Smith. They really didn't have an offsetting rusher from the other side at that time. Conlan started outside, and moved inside once Biscuit got there. Once they plugged in Bennett, and he settled in the defense got a whole lot better.

 

I was at the Miami game Sun Nov 29th, 1987 and the Bills beat the Dolphins 27-0. The phins benched Marino that game after 3 INT's, and Miami didn't cross the 50 yard line all game until late in the 4th quarter after Don Strock took over. He drove them down to the Bills 20 where he promptly threw an INT in the endzone. What a great game, and you could easily see what an impact Bennett had on that team.

 

In 1988 12-4, they were #3 in points allowed, and #4 in yards allowed. Think about where Buffalo was drafting after 87.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...-for-bills.html

 

 

So lets just say this Draft brings us a star WR in Watkins, a Pro Bowl caliber RT in Kouandjio, and a Pro Bowl caliber OG in Richardson, along with a solid Nickel DB in Cockrell, a 4th LB in Preston Brown, a solid rotation RB and eventual replacement for Freddie in Bryce Brown, and a #2 WR in Williams...That's a potential major step towards being a good team...Right? So maybe the Watkins trade does end up being the catalyst for future success because the Bills are building a very solid roster...Maybe?

 

Jeez, I'd be happy with a decent solid starter that doesn't get pushed into the backfield every other play.

Edited May 13, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[bbb]

I was at the Miami game Sun Nov 29th, 1987 and the Bills beat the Dolphins 27-0. The phins benched Marino that game after 3 INT's, and Miami didn't cross the 50 yard line all game until late in the 4th quarter after Don Strock took over. He drove them down to the Bills 20 where he promptly threw an INT in the endzone. What a great game, and you could easily see what an impact Bennett had on that team.

 

I went to that game and that night went to the Oilers-Sabres game. I kept saying that I'll always be able to say that I saw the greatest QB and the greatest hockey player on the same day. After the beating the Bills put on Marino, I was then down to the greatest hockey player of all time.

 

BP is admittedly conservative and would not have endorsed that deal. I understand he did not even have Gronkowski on their draft board due to concerns with his back - a guy like our troubled OT from the U would similarly never have made his... In the end, we swung for the fences and hopefully we get a couple of runs...

 

Yeah, Gronk has shown to be incredibly durable!

[Doug Flutie Band]

if watkins blows up he's worth it

 

he he doesn't then he's not

[Thurman#1]

If not for BP the Bills would have never amounted to anything. That said, he is out of the league now for a reason.

 

 

Yeah, but the reason is that he gave control over the team to his son and his son ran it into the ground.

 

If he said it almost per batim, it means he was just kidding.

 

 

"Per batim" is a legitimate alternate form of "verbatim."

Edited May 13, 2014 by Thurman#1

[vincec]

In that respect, yes, it was a lot similar. I was referring to the fact that, I think, Kujo actually had surgery on it, and that I don't even think Thurman ever had surgery but I'm not sure. So teams were somewhat worried about them for different reasons, although it was about a knee injury two years before.

 

One article I read said Thurman failed the first Bills physical, and the team even went as far as say, if he hurts it again, we'll just do the surgery on him. They wanted him that bad, and look what happened.

Thomas never had surgery but he still had a ruptured ACL. He just elected not to have his knee reconstructed. The outcomes of that surgery back then were less predictable than they are now. He played his career without an ACL and with a brace. I would say that's more iffy than the situation with Kouandjio.

Edited May 13, 2014 by vincec

[artmalibu]

If the trade up didnt happen then who would have been selected? A OT? and how much better would he be then the guy we took in the 2nd round? Enough better to be a game changer? A legit #1 WR is a game changer, and all the draft experts believe he is. Costly yes. but whats the cost of not having a #1 WR? 6 and 10, is my answer.

[Thurman#1]

I don't buy his argument about Bennett.

 

If you think about it, the trade occurred in 1987, right after the players' strike ended. The year before (1986), the Bills went 4-12. At the time of the trade, the Bills were 3-3. There was definitely a sense that the Bills were on the rise, but it's not like they were a player away or anything. They still had a lot of team needs, and Polian still mortgaged the future -- remember, that was a player in exchange for the following year's #1 and #2, and the year after that's #1. That's huge, much larger than this one. For a team that just came off a 4-12 campaign.

 

 

Gotta disagree about that 1987 roster. If you look at the roster of that 1987 7-8 team, you can see that the team was almost there, that there were very few holes after they got Bennett.

 

Offensive starters: Kelly, Ronnie Harmon, FB Carl Byrum, WRs Reed and Burkett, TE Metzelaars, LT Wolford, LG Ritcher, C Kent Hull, RG Vogler and RT Devlin. That's impressive outside FB (and who cares, really), and RB.

 

Defensive starters: LDE Sean McNanie (the weak link), Smerlas, Bruce, Biscuit, Conlan, RILB Radecic, Talley, CBs Derrick Burroughs and Nate Odomes, and safeties Dwight Drane and Kelso.

 

They were almost there. And Kelly was in his second year and fourth or fifth as a pro, unlike EJ.

 

If the trade up didnt happen then who would have been selected? A OT? and how much better would he be then the guy we took in the 2nd round? Enough better to be a game changer?

 

 

Could've been an OT. Or Ebron. Or Odell Beckham Jr. (who was apparently undervalued by the pundits and apparently valued highly by the Bills we found in the last few days), Or Shazier or Mosley. No way to know, really.

 

If it had been Beckham, how much better is Sammy than Beckham? My guess is that Beckham will also be a game changer, though Sammy will be better.

 

Would Lewan or Martin have changed games compared to Kouandjio? It's possible. Both are apparently quite a bit more athletic than Kouandjio, so perhaps one of those guys could have saved some sacks which might have injured EJ and saved not just a game but a season.

 

Again, no real way to know.

 

 

A legit #1 WR is a game changer, and all the draft experts believe he is. Costly yes. but whats the cost of not having a #1 WR? 6 and 10, is my answer.

 

 

As you say, it's costly.

 

I'd argue 6-10 isn't so much the cost of not having a #1 WR as it was the cost of not having a #1 WR and having a rookie QB who was supposed to have a developmental year, playing behind a line with some real weaknesses in pass protection.

 

We'll find out as time passes whether it was a good move.

[maryland-bills-fan]

In that respect, yes, it was a lot similar. I was referring to the fact that, I think, Kujo actually had surgery on it, and that I don't even think Thurman ever had surgery but I'm not sure. So teams were somewhat worried about them for different reasons, although it was about a knee injury two years before.

 

One article I read said Thurman failed the first Bills physical, and the team even went as far as say, if he hurts it again, we'll just do the surgery on him. They wanted him that bad, and look what happened.

 

You know, sometimes the "experts" are guessing in an information vacumn just like us. If you have one piece of data (hurt knee), then play it up and look smart if it works out. Everyone will forget it if the knee never bothers him. But if you say that the knee will be just fine and it isn't, when then people will always attack you with that error and your career as an expert is over. CYA.

[KevinRome]

Thomas never had surgery but he still had a ruptured ACL. He just elected not to have his knee reconstructed. The outcomes of that surgery back then were less predictable than they are now. He played his career without an ACL and with a brace. I would say that's more iffy than the situation with Kouandjio.

 

I listened to Polian for the conversion that is referenced in this thread, and one of the stories that he told was about the pre-draft preparation in drafting Thurman. He said the medical evaluation trumpted everything and the decision was up to the team doctor. Polian said that Thurman's college knee surgery was videoed, and the doctor looked at it. The doctor reported to Polian that even if Thurman's knee gave out again, there was enough left of ligament that the doctor could repair it.

 

It would be nice if we could get a link to that segment on Sirius/XM, it was quite interesting.

[Chandler#81]

Great thread, Folks!

I don't buy his argument about Bennett.

 

If you think about it, the trade occurred in 1987, right after the players' strike ended. The year before (1986), the Bills went 4-12. At the time of the trade, the Bills were 3-3. There was definitely a sense that the Bills were on the rise, but it's not like they were a player away or anything. They still had a lot of team needs, and Polian still mortgaged the future -- remember, that was a player in exchange for the following year's #1 and #2, and the year after that's #1. That's huge, much larger than this one. For a team that just came off a 4-12 campaign.

Well, yes, but there were 3 teams involved using marquee RB's and a bunch of high picks. We sent Greg Bell to the Rams, who sent Eric Dickerson to the Colts and, IIRC, everyone added picks back & forth. Halloween night, '87. I'll never forget it. One aspect I think being overlooked here is the following year's #1. Back in '87, as Rubes and others have said, we were 7-8. So, while we were truly on the verge of greatness, the next years forfeited pick was still relatively low. This, combined with concerns for TT's knee, allowed us to swoop in and nab him early in the 2nd round. But IF we do begin to finally start winning more games than losing this season, we won't have our first pick until somewhere around the 50's, well past one and a half rounds of selection. It took just 7 wins back then to be able to steal Thurman early in the 2nd. If we only have 7 wins this season, heads will ROLL! The Sammy pick could be very damaging next year -especially if he's awesome and we win many games.