How Did Joe Ferguson Rate With Other NFL QB's

[Storm Front]

I know it is impossible to compare stats of QB's from the '70s against those of modern day QB's, but I was wondering if Joe Ferguson was considered a good, mediocre or poor QB during the time he played? I was too young to remember Ferguson playing, although I did have his 1985 Topps Football card with him in a Bills uniform. My memory only goes back to Jim Kelly as the Bills' QB.

[hondo in seattle]

I'll let someone else look up the stats but here's my recollection. At first, I viewed him as a good caretaker QB who was eminently qualified to hand the ball to OJ. But as Fergy's skills matured over the years, he became an above-average QB who could win a game or two with his arm.

[BringBackFergy]

Joe Ferguson was a gentleman, a tough cookie and had a very strong arm. I always enjoyed watching him although he was a slow runner. I can still recollect his shufflestep back pedal, the way he scanned the field holding the ball low, and the countless TD's to Jerry Butler, Frank Lewis...even Lou Piccone.

 

In the end, he'll be remembered as a strong QB for the Bills.

[Beerball]

Joe Ferguson was a gentleman, a tough cookie and had a very strong arm. I always enjoyed watching him although he was a slow runner. I can still recollect his shufflestep back pedal, the way he scanned the field holding the ball low, and the countless TD's to Jerry Butler, Frank Lewis...even Lou Piccone.

 

In the end, he'll be remembered as a strong QB for the Bills.

A very hard guy to not like. Guts? Desire? Second to no one in those categories.

[Rico]

He wasn't clutch at all, always folding at the worst possible times. Also had zero pocket presence and would consistently turn a 5-yard sack into a 10+ yard sack by running backwards from the pressure. His leadership skills were extremely weak, always hanging his head down after a mistake (sad sack).

 

To his credit, he did have a strong arm and was pretty tough. All-in-all though, I would have to rate him mediocre at best.

[macaroni]

My recolection of Fergy was an average to good football player who was cursed with a not so good supporting cast (except for O.J.) his reputation around the league was the guy who handed the ball of to Simpson, and he was never appreciated for his "skills set" as a QB. He had the horrible habit (as far as I was concerned) of when a drive went wrong, he would walk back to the bench with his head hanging which reminded me of Eyeore of Whinnie the Pooh fame.

 

If memory serves me (and it may not because I'm an old fart) it was Fergy that requested we change our helmets from white to red because he had trouble picking out our recievers playing in a division full of white helmeted teams.

[MarkyMannn]

always hanging his head down after a mistake (sad sack).

 

To his credit, he did have a strong arm and was pretty tough. All-in-all though, I would have to rate him mediocre at best.

 

No one hung their head as good as Joe

 

Surprisingly at the time he retired, he was like 20th in many career stat's

[eSJayDee]

I would've rated him good, but not elite. Different era back then. As others have mentioned, he was prone to hanging his head. Couldn't find anyone tougher - just watch the S.D. playoff game in '80 or '81 for reference - he basically played it one one foot (IMO it would've been a different outcome if he was the slightest bit mobile or even if he was able to step into his throws).

As for the helmet color change, IIRC (I could be mistaken), he was colorblind so although the thought behind it was to distinguish our players from other teams in the division, it likely wasn't at his request, I think the idea was Stevenson's..

[CardinalScotts]

Great arm, tough guy - run oriented offense 95% of his career - only had a few years with play makers at wide reciever, never a tight end- was a middle of the road guy somewhere between 14-22

[Lurker]

IMO, Joe was a lot like Fitz with a stronger arm. Good enough to win with a better supporting cast, but not a guy who could carry a team on his back. Which describes 80% of the NFL QBs who ever played. As a 3rd round pick (57 overall), I'd say he lived up to and even exceeded his expected value as a Bill.

Some interesting bullet points per Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Ferguson

"Ferguson placed in the top 10 in pass attempts five times, completions and passing yards four times, passing touchdowns six times, and yards per pass three times. At one time he shared, with Ron Jaworski, the NFL record for consecutive starts by a quarterback with 107, until he was replaced by Joe Dufek on September 30, 1984.

He has a 1-3 record in the NFL postseason, winning against the New York Jets in 1981. His three losses came from the Cincinnati Bengals in those same playoffs, the San Diego Chargers the year before in 1980 (a game in which he played the entire contest with a sprained ankle), and in 1974 to the Pittsburgh Steelers. He retired after the 1990 season after playing only one game with the Colts.

Ferguson's best season came in the 1975 campaign, when he tied Fran Tarkenton for the NFL lead with 25 touchdown passes and compiled a passer rating of 81.3. Ferguson also surpassed 20 touchdown passes on three other occasions (1980, 1981 & 1983).

Ferguson is one of few quarterbacks who started immediately as a rookie, and his team won four of his first six starts. He is one of only two rookie quarterbacks to accomplish this feat, being joined by the Atlanta Falcons' Matt Ryan in 2008.

[Buftex]

I suppose Fergy would rate as mediocre, but, when he had pieces around him, he was quite a bit better. The only time during his tenure in Buffalo that the Bills had a good, balanced offensive attack (ie: not OJ right, OJ left, OJ up the middle), was during the 1980-81 seasons...and their offense was pretty proliifc. As I recall, Ferguson was near the top (top 3-5) in most passing categories those years.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Buftex

[Green Lightning]

Mediocre my ass. Fergy was above average -- not elite, but damn good. He had strong and accurate arm. He would get hang-dog sometimes but by and large, a very good QB. If we end up taking one of the QB class this year and he ended up as productive as Joe, I'd be very happy.

[Buftex]

Mediocre my ass. Fergy was above average -- not elite, but damn good. He had strong and accurate arm. He would get hang-dog sometimes but by and large, a very good QB. If we end up taking one of the QB class this year and he ended up as productive as Joe, I'd be very happy.

 

Yeah, I agree...but the conscensious amongst most fans seemed to be that he was a head hanger, yadda yadda...he and Jerry Butler are likely my all-time favorite Bills. I certainly don't blame him, and I am aware, the NFL (or fans morevoer) weren't quite as stat happy as they are these days...but as an huge Fergy fan, I can't be oblivious to the fact that the team didn't have a whole lot of success during his tenure (though we would take it now), and he really only was near the top of the league in passing during those great Chuck Knox years. I have no doubt, on another team, he would have fared better.

 

Incidentally, for years, I had this great picture of Ferguson, on my wall...it was taken from the Buffalo News around 1977 I think, from a game against the Redskins.. It was a picture of Fergy screaming at his linemen, after a sack...he has his arms outstretched, holding the ball in one hand...you can see his teeth..but his helmet is nearly turned all the way to the right covering his face, jersey covered in mud... ...he got killed on some of those teams.

[firemedic]

Fergy was awesome in the mid 70's to mid 80's. Believe it or not, the Bills had the top ranked offense in 1974 (just no defense) and you can check out some of the game vids from the 1980 season.

I think he would have given Kelly a run if he had played QB on the 90's teams. The 1980 team was probably the most well-rounded team I can remember (not around for the '64-'65 squads).

He was frequently a top 5 QB during his career and a class act as well.

[machine gun kelly]

One of the toughest QB's we had including Kelly and Kemp. I wish we had him now. He had no team around him many of those years. Look what he did when he had Joe Cribbs for a RB in 1980. We won the AFC East.

[OldTimer1960]

Fergy was a good starting QB and was as tough as the day is long. I would say he was probably the 3rd best QB in franchise history behind Jim Kelly and Jack Kemp.

[dollars 2 donuts]

A whole bunch of everything that most of the guys have said above.

 

However, fate robbed him of a little bit of his glory because I honestly believe that if he didn't break his ankle against the Pats in 1980 that we beat the Charges and beat the Raiders (in Buffalo) in the AFC Championship game.

 

...I mean we lost in the last 2 minutes against the Charges by 6 points with him playing on one freaking leg!

Edited April 8, 2013 by dollars 2 donuts

[Tcali]

Ferguson was a very very good QB. How could anyone say he was mediocre??

And if you are under age...lets say 46..you really didnt see his career.He was as good as a guy like Flacco is today.

I would compare him a bit to Drew Brees with less athleticism.Pinpoint accuracy and a good strong arm and very tight spiral.

pouted like a ten yr old on the field--that was a negative. He did NOT just hand to OJ left and right like some said on here--he threw great passes to ahmad rashad,Wallace francis,Bobby Chandler,Jerry Butler,JD Hill.

He never had a championship caliber team to QB...altho Chuck Knox had them fairly close until Stew Barber and Ralph F'ed that up.

[bbb]

Fergy was awesome in the mid 70's to mid 80's. Believe it or not, the Bills had the top ranked offense in 1974 (just no defense) and you can check out some of the game vids from the 1980 season.

I think he would have given Kelly a run if he had played QB on the 90's teams. The 1980 team was probably the most well-rounded team I can remember (not around for the '64-'65 squads).

He was frequently a top 5 QB during his career and a class act as well.

 

That offense was just stacked in 1974. My favorite game growing up was the season opener that year on MNF against Madden's Raiders who had yet to lose on MNF........OJ gets hurt. Bills score late - Fergy to Rashad, making it 14-13. Somehow the Bills get the ball back (forget how) and Braxton fumbles and Tom Keating (I think) runs it in for a touchdown. Now it's 20-14 really late, and tons of people leave the stadium. But, not my father and us kids............Fergy leads them down the field again, and I can still see Ahmad Rashad's move on Willie Brown to win the game 21-20. What a game, and what a great offense that was!

[Prickly Pete]

Fergy was awesome in the mid 70's to mid 80's. Believe it or not, the Bills had the top ranked offense in 1974 (just no defense) and you can check out some of the game vids from the 1980 season.

I think he would have given Kelly a run if he had played QB on the 90's teams. The 1980 team was probably the most well-rounded team I can remember (not around for the '64-'65 squads).

He was frequently a top 5 QB during his career and a class act as well.

 

No way he would give Jim Kelly any kind of "run". Jim Kelly is a Hall of Fame QB!

I think Joe Ferguson was above average, and played very well when he finally got a supporting cast.

 

Someone earlier claimed..

"IMO, Joe was a lot like Fitz with a stronger arm. Good enough to win with a better supporting cast, but not a guy who could carry a team on his back."

Ha!! Fitz is NOT good enough to win anything but MAYBE 10 games (and a playoff loss) with any kind of supporting cast.

 

Joe Ferguson was better than Fitz, but not close to Kelly.

[ektin]

Fergy was a above average QB with a rocket arm who had the same problems today's Bills QB have. Bad personnel decisions and constant coaching turnovers. His rookie year was nothing more than handoffs to OJ. I think he only threw 150 passes his rookie year. He had JD Hill and Bobby Chandler in Saban's and Ringo's run offense. He threw more with Knox as they drafted Jerry Butler and got Frank Lewis for Paul Seymour. But top draft choices like Tom Ruud and Bob Nelson, Booker Moore, Perry Tuttle, Phil "Okie" Dokes didn't help much. He had Ahmad Rashad for one year but he wanted $100k a year and Ralph only would offer $95k so he went to Seattle. Knox left and they hired Kay Stephenson who put the Bills in a downward spiral.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Better than average QB for sure.

 

Just below Pro Bowl level IMO.

 

His strengths and weaknesses have been hashed out pretty well here.

 

I would add that Fergy and James Harris probably threw with the highest velocity of any Bills QBs.

 

Some might argue that JP Losman is in that group.

[Charles Romes]

Always blamed broken plays on teammates. Really let receivers have it when they dropped passes. Often started games really hot throwing darts all over the field but with a little adversity momentum was not sustained. I do remember many great fergy passes being dropped possibly because the receiver was afraid of getting yelled at or possibly because fast spirals can be tough to handle sometimes - did not throw a Brady "easy to catch" ball.

[macaroni]

And if you are under age...lets say 46..you really didnt see his career.He was as good as a guy like Flacco is today.

He did NOT just hand to OJ left and right like some said on here--he threw great passes to ahmad rashad,Wallace francis,Bobby Chandler,Jerry Butler,JD Hill.

He never had a championship caliber team to QB...altho Chuck Knox had them fairly close until Stew Barber and Ralph F'ed that up.

 

You may be misreading my post .... I didn't say all he did was hand off to O.J., I said that was his reputation around the league. O.J. was the "star power" at that time and he was the guy that got ALL the hype when we did well, Fergy was the QB and wrongly got ALL the blame when we did poorly ... Fergy was probably the most under rated QB in my memory.

[BobChalmers]

Above average QB - he was my hero growing up - but how can you guys all forget his real reputation on the field?? He was a an interception machine.

 

HE IS WHY THEY WENT TO THOSE GAWD-AWFUL RED HELMETS!!!!

 

Remember? They were hoping his INTproblems would improve if the Bills had different colored helmets than the other 4 AFC East teams - Colts were in the East then, and Pats and Jets helmets were also white at the time.

 

Those ridiculous (literally) red domes were the Fergie helmets.

 

It didn't work.

 

All time archetypal Fergie play: In Dallas for MNF. He falls down in the pocket after his shoe comes off. His sock is trailing a cartoonish 4 feet stretched out from his foot on the ground. He's on his knees, can't see a damned thing from down there - so what to do? Heave it up blindly, obviously!

 

It was picked, of course.

Edited April 9, 2013 by BobChalmers

[first_and_ten]

A whole bunch of everything that most of the guys have said above.

 

However, fate robbed him of a little bit of his glory because I honestly believe that if he didn't break his ankle against the Pats in 1980 that we beat the Charges and beat the Raiders (in Buffalo) in the AFC Championship game.

 

...I mean we lost in the last 2 minutes against the Charges by 6 points with him playing on one freaking leg!

 

I remember Charles Romes dropped an interception shorly before Fouts threw the winning touchdown pass. I agree, they go to the superbowl that year if Fergy was healthy or Romes catches that interception

[Lurker]

Always blamed broken plays on teammates. Really let receivers have it when they dropped passes.

Absolutely wrong. If anything, Fergy shouldered the blame for the failures of his teammates too much, rather than holding them accountable like Kelly did.

 

If Joe had a failing, he was too humble to be an NFL QB and internalized the poor results the mediocre coaching/personnel decisions saddled him with. Probably had something to do with the fact he was thrust into the starting role as a rookie and had to take command of the ship too early...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I agree with Lurker. I don't remember Fergy pointing the finger of blame at anyone but himself.

 

I could be wrong but that is my memory.

[eSJayDee]

He was a an interception machine.

 

No he wasn't. As I said b4, it was a different era of passing. You didn't go thru a season w/ only a handful of INTs, and your "possession" WRs would avg like 15 YPC.

 

His INT %age was typical for QBs at that time. In fact, for the longest time (IDK if it's still the case) Fergy held the record for LEAST INTs in a season! In '76 when he only played like 7 games due to back injury, he only had 1 INT in ~160 attempts, which for at least 25+ yrs was the record.

[Rico]

 

 

I remember Charles Romes dropped an interception shorly before Fouts threw the winning touchdown pass. I agree, they go to the superbowl that year if Fergy was healthy or Romes catches that interception

I think that was Bill Simpson.

 

A couple years ago, I watched a tape of the Bills-Jets playoff game from the week before. Bills jumped out to a big lead, then held on for dear life thanks to many Fergy bungles. Like I said above, he wasn't clutch at all. Frank Lewis though, was amazing that day.

[Charles Romes]

I think that was Bill Simpson.

 

A couple years ago, I watched a tape of the Bills-Jets playoff game from the week before. Bills jumped out to a big lead, then held on for dear life thanks to many Fergy bungles. Like I said above, he wasn't clutch at all. Frank Lewis though, was amazing that day.

 

Mixing years. The SD game in 80 they won the division and did not play the wild card game. In 81 they beat the jets but lost on the road to bengals - they were about to tie it up at the end but a piccone 4th down pickup was nullified by a bogus call.

[Phil Hansen Forever]

He wasn't clutch at all, always folding at the worst possible times. Also had zero pocket presence and would consistently turn a 5-yard sack into a 10+ yard sack by running backwards from the pressure. His leadership skills were extremely weak, always hanging his head down after a mistake (sad sack).

 

To his credit, he did have a strong arm and was pretty tough. All-in-all though, I would have to rate him mediocre at best.

I remember the sacks and the strong arm. I remember a nice guy who always took time out to meet the fans and never had a bad word about anyone. He was a leader on and off the field. He was never great in the minds of the sportscasters, but he was better than some and certainly not as good as Staubach and Bradshaw.

 

Compared the latest Bills QB's, he was the equivalent to Fitz, but had an arm like porcelain Rob. He couldn't stand in the pocket long, but could take a hit and sure did, and often. He didn't have the flair of Flutie, but was smarter than J.P. Losman.

 

I suppose he was a lot like Bledsoe in his early years. I liked the man and still do. He took the blame when things went poorly, and never took the acclaim when it went well. A real gentleman throughout his life.

[Haven Moses]

nobody wants to see their QB hang his head like a mope. I will say that at the end of his career he did seem like more of a leader, but for the first half of his career you just knew that he couldnt win the big game.

[hondo in seattle]

 

That offense was just stacked in 1974. My favorite game growing up was the season opener that year on MNF against Madden's Raiders who had yet to lose on MNF........OJ gets hurt. Bills score late - Fergy to Rashad, making it 14-13. Somehow the Bills get the ball back (forget how) and Braxton fumbles and Tom Keating (I think) runs it in for a touchdown. Now it's 20-14 really late, and tons of people leave the stadium. But, not my father and us kids............Fergy leads them down the field again, and I can still see Ahmad Rashad's move on Willie Brown to win the game 21-20. What a game, and what a great offense that was!

 

I think it was '75 when the Fergy/OJ offense was really rolling. Averaged 30 points per game that season. Compares well with the Super Bowl Bills offenses.

[firemedic]

Sorry, but with the team Kelly had, Fergy in prime would have done serious damage, not taking anything from Kelly, he is a HOFer.

Kelly was the better QB

 

prolly was '75, my bad

[thewildrabbit]

He wasn't clutch at all, always folding at the worst possible times. Also had zero pocket presence and would consistently turn a 5-yard sack into a 10+ yard sack by running backwards from the pressure. His leadership skills were extremely weak, always hanging his head down after a mistake (sad sack).

 

To his credit, he did have a strong arm and was pretty tough. All-in-all though, I would have to rate him mediocre at best.

Or a bad pass. It was tough to watch him play pre Chuck Knox as he seemed so discouraged all the time in the late 70's when I watched him. But then I suppose when you never beat your biggest rivals in the Miami Dolphins the entire decade of the 70's you have a big reason to hang your head.

 

Once ole Chucky got there in 78 it was a 180 degree change for Fergy. Loved him after Knox changed up the offense back to Fergy handing off as winning every game was no longer on his shoulders. 388 passing attempts to 588 rushing attempts in 1978

 

Chuck Knox changed the entire Buffalo Bills scouting dept with Norm Pollom, built up the O line again, fixed the defense and got all those young players to believe they could win.

 

Fergy had been with the bills since 73 and had OJ to hand off to along with the electric co the first few years, Joe never passed for more then 3000 yards at Buffalo before Knox. That happened only 2x in his career. He was basically a 50% completion QB.

Edited April 9, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[thewildrabbit]

Sorry, but with the team Kelly had, Fergy in prime would have done serious damage, not taking anything from Kelly, he is a HOFer.

Kelly was the better QB

 

prolly was '75, my bad

Not sure what you are talking about...

 

Joe Ferguson had the electric co O line, OJ to hand off to. Jim Braxton at FB. WR's Bobby Chandler & JD Hill. Paul Seymour at TE. Pretty freaking good team if you asked me. That offense was ranked #1 in the NFL in points AND yards in 1975.

 

The problem was the defense was horrible 21st in points allowed, 24 in yards allowed. It wasn't until 77 that the Bills drafted CB's Mario Clark and Charles Romes that the passing defense got a whole lot better, but then teams just ran on them. Knox changed that with Smerlas, Haslett, and Shane Nelson AKA the Bermuda triangle

[Buftex]

Always blamed broken plays on teammates. Really let receivers have it when they dropped passes. Often started games really hot throwing darts all over the field but with a little adversity momentum was not sustained. I do remember many great fergy passes being dropped possibly because the receiver was afraid of getting yelled at or possibly because fast spirals can be tough to handle sometimes - did not throw a Brady "easy to catch" ball.

 

I don't remember this at all...at all. You sure you got the right Joe Ferguson?

 

Not sure what you are talking about...

 

Joe Ferguson had the electric co O line, OJ to hand off to. Jim Braxton at FB. WR's Bobby Chandler & JD Hill. Paul Seymour at TE. Pretty freaking good team if you asked me. That offense was ranked #1 in the NFL in points AND yards in 1975.

 

The problem was the defense was horrible 21st in points allowed, 24 in yards allowed. It wasn't until 77 that the Bills drafted CB's Mario Clark and Charles Romes that the passing defense got a whole lot better, but then teams just ran on them. Knox changed that with Smerlas, Haslett, and Shane Nelson AKA the Bermuda triangle

 

True, he had Bobby Chandler and JD Hill at various times, Ahmad Rashad too...but it was a different era in the 70's, and those offenses all revolved around OJ Simpson. His rookie year, Ferguson had only 114 pass attempts, starting 14 games. Only had one int as well!

 

Very true that Knox built his teams around the defense (god they were good), but for all the "ground Chuck" legend, the offense in those years was much more open than what they had. Of course, some of that had to do with Joe Cribbs, one of the early "new breed" running backs who could catch anything thrown his way.

[Wayne Fontes]

Ferguson had a better arm than Kelly - he'd throw deep them on a rope. Loved watching Ferguson and Lewis.

[Buftex]

Fergy had been with the bills since 73 and had OJ to hand off to along with the electric co the first few years, Joe never passed for more then 3000 yards at Buffalo before Knox. That happened only 2x in his career. He was basically a 50% completion QB.

 

A 3,000 yard passing season was exceptional back then...it means different things at different times...teams, in general, really didn't start airing it out until the 80's.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Buftex