fairfaxbill Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In theory, I get why Buddy would extend Merriman. Our pass rush is still developing and we are re-signing a veteran who has potential. However, in practice, we have a long list of unrestricted free agents who are wondering what their future will be. Granted, we won't be re-signing everyone, but it definitely sends a message to guys in the locker room when Buddy re-signs someone who has yet to see the field. I think it says its better to be one of Buddy's guys instead of a Bills veteran. I wasn't a fan of the Kelsay contract, but at least it said if you work hard on the field, you will be rewarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I get what you are saying....but what would you have Nix do....NOT SIGN HIM? Take a look at the contract he took......only 2.5 million of that money is for certain. If he hit the open market there were be several teams that would take this exact same chance for so little risk. I dont care about sending messages anymore....I want to win. Merrimen if he can make it back is a multiple pro bowl multiple sack year player with a ton of experience and is not very old. Now lets go get a nasty defensive linemen to keep blockers off of Shawn and go to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In theory, I get why Buddy would extend Merriman. Our pass rush is still developing and we are re-signing a veteran who has potential. However, in practice, we have a long list of unrestricted free agents who are wondering what their future will be. Granted, we won't be re-signing everyone, but it definitely sends a message to guys in the locker room when Buddy re-signs someone who has yet to see the field. I think it says its better to be one of Buddy's guys instead of a Bills veteran. I wasn't a fan of the Kelsay contract, but at least it said if you work hard on the field, you will be rewarded. I think it sends the message that we are not going to continue losing with the same people playing here. They are going to do what they can to try and get the right people in here, and if they continue to lose in spite of the efforts, it will at least be with different people doing the losing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthtobrint Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Only $2.5 million of Merriman's contract is guaranteed next year. It's not like Buddy gave him the massive contract Whitner thinks he deserves. Also, out of our "long list of unrestricted free agents who are wondering what their future will be", only two of them might have the opportunity to get sizable contracts from other teams - Posluzny and Whitner. As for the others, they will not cost much and it will just be a matter of whether Buddy wants to keep them or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In theory, I get why Buddy would extend Merriman. Our pass rush is still developing and we are re-signing a veteran who has potential. However, in practice, we have a long list of unrestricted free agents who are wondering what their future will be. Granted, we won't be re-signing everyone, but it definitely sends a message to guys in the locker room when Buddy re-signs someone who has yet to see the field. I think it says its better to be one of Buddy's guys instead of a Bills veteran. I wasn't a fan of the Kelsay contract, but at least it said if you work hard on the field, you will be rewarded. Merriman has a pedigree the other players in the locker room don't have for the most part; even with all of his injuries the past couple seasons. Besides, what you say only bares truth if they don't resign some of the other veterans. Also you have to look at the amount of money the contract was for. Merriman got a contract with a lot of incentives. If Whitner wants to sign for 5 million he could have it tomorrow. Poz has to wait until after the season because of the 30% rule. Florence has a good chance of returning as well. The thing Merriman's signing does, along with Moats development and Batten's return is lets the Bills go DL or DB or QB with that first pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 When I first saw the topic title, I thought to myself, "another negative thread for the sake of negativity." But after reading it I think you raise a valid point. That said, I have to agree with John again… Firstly the message is that "we are trying to win" and that we will make some calculated risks towards that end. On top of that, I think that we have to give some benefit of the doubt to Gailey/Nix that they know their business…that they have taken the temperature in the room towards Merriman…and that they've weighed all factors in making this decision. I think when the Bills made this decision that they factored in the possible backlash in the locker room. I hope (and trust) that they made the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I get what you are saying....but what would you have Nix do....NOT SIGN HIM? Take a look at the contract he took......only 2.5 million of that money is for certain. If he hit the open market there were be several teams that would take this exact same chance for so little risk. I dont care about sending messages anymore....I want to win. Merrimen if he can make it back is a multiple pro bowl multiple sack year player with a ton of experience and is not very old. Now lets go get a nasty defensive linemen to keep blockers off of Shawn and go to work I agree with you...what kind of messege did it really send, we want to do whatever it takes to win? Isn't that the kind of GM you want? He doesn't get much money to work with so this was a no brainer....plus he isn't playing or anything so let the players on the field play the season out and worry about contracts later, the only one we really need to re-sign is Florence and Poz anyway and maybe Wilson over Whitner, so i think this was a good move and shows the locker room winners get rewarded you shouldn't get reward for just being a Bill. I want this team to win at all costs, and it seems Buddy does too. You go Buddy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Only $2.5 million of Merriman's contract is guaranteed next year. It's not like Buddy gave him the massive contract Whitner thinks he deserves. Also, out of our "long list of unrestricted free agents who are wondering what their future will be", only two of them might have the opportunity to get sizable contracts from other teams - Posluzny and Whitner. As for the others, they will not cost much and it will just be a matter of whether Buddy wants to keep them or not. I wish it were a little more "performance driven" contract. But there is probably nothing but upside at this point for us with the keeping of him. And although i have been amazed before i would still be surprised that the coaches involved do not feel he can at least get on the field next year. I think that if a better player can be found at any position on defense Chan will take a look. excepting our beloved Kyle. quote Now lets go get a nasty defensive linemen to keep blockers off of Shawn and go to work.end quote heck yes! Edited January 2, 2011 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I think it sends the message that we are not going to continue losing with the same people playing here. They are going to do what they can to try and get the right people in here, and if they continue to lose in spite of the efforts, it will at least be with different people doing the losing... I agree, the message is the same as it was when they claimed him off waivers: that the Bills want to win and improve the team. Remember the comments from veteran players when the claim was made: "We need more playmakers," Bills linebacker Chris Kelsay said Wednesday. "And if he can come in here and do that for us, we'll welcome him with open arms." http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5760807 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Correct logic, wrong headline. Message to locker room - Perform, you'll get paid. Happy New year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo1983 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 We have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, so we can't jump to anything. I don't like this thread at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) The message: A 3 time probowler, averaging almost 3/4 sack a game, who is still young, with a positive (per Nix) recovery prognosis is worth signing to an incentive laden contract that rewards performance and playing time also per Nix (which I presume indirectly assumes overcoming recent injuries)… or paraphrased, if you are dominant and awesome for multiple years, but then have some injury issues the Bills may still give you a chance, but there will be performance contingencies . Horrible message, just horrible… Edited January 2, 2011 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 the message...we need lb's and we just extended one that has been on the roster for a little while. this is a business and this team is taking a shot at winning so the players in the locker room can also win...if you win the paychecks get bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Please excuse my ignorance but why oh why is this a bad message. Pay for performance. is that bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In theory, I get why Buddy would extend Merriman. Our pass rush is still developing and we are re-signing a veteran who has potential. However, in practice, we have a long list of unrestricted free agents who are wondering what their future will be. Granted, we won't be re-signing everyone, but it definitely sends a message to guys in the locker room when Buddy re-signs someone who has yet to see the field. I think it says its better to be one of Buddy's guys instead of a Bills veteran. I wasn't a fan of the Kelsay contract, but at least it said if you work hard on the field, you will be rewarded. If this is Dante's agent then here is my message, go try the open market so that the Bills can resign him for half of what the current offer is now. It would be the RIGHT message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In theory, I get why Buddy would extend Merriman. Our pass rush is still developing and we are re-signing a veteran who has potential. However, in practice, we have a long list of unrestricted free agents who are wondering what their future will be. Granted, we won't be re-signing everyone, but it definitely sends a message to guys in the locker room when Buddy re-signs someone who has yet to see the field. I think it says its better to be one of Buddy's guys instead of a Bills veteran. I wasn't a fan of the Kelsay contract, but at least it said if you work hard on the field, you will be rewarded. I prefer Buddy's guys to Bills veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooper Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Buddy Nix....signs a player who has made the pro bowl many times, and he does it at a low cost. He won't overpay lil'donte, he took out the trash (marshawn, and kaptin checkdown) He hired a coach who actually has a PLAN, and yet still some of my BILLS bro's are hating on him....I know your just being "real" but let me be real, every team Nix has been with has been turned around.....These Bills will be one hell of a team in 2-3 years!!! Go BILLS!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) I think it sends the message that we are not going to continue losing with the same people playing here. They are going to do what they can to try and get the right people in here, and if they continue to lose in spite of the efforts, it will at least be with different people doing the losing... Yup...you nailed it. We need a GM who wants to win and not one who wants players to feel secure on a 4-and-11 team. Edited January 2, 2011 by Green Lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I can only speak for myself, and I know if another team had signed him for this exact contract, I would be cursing the front office. Just imagine it was the Pats that did this. We'd be homicidal right now. Count me as one of those giddy about seeing what Merriman can do next year. Perhaps it won't amount to much, but like many others have stated, it's worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I prefer Buddy's guys to Bills veterans. I like the signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Looking way too much into this. Not every move the front office makes is a referendum on how they deal with this team. I like to think that giving Merriman a small contract extension as a revival project isn't going to make guys who have been working hard feel slighted. They have been reportedly in talks with both Poz and Whitner about extensions(and gave Kelsay an extension). So its not like they took a stance of not until the end of the season and then suddenly gave Merriman his deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Looking way too much into this. Not every move the front office makes is a referendum on how they deal with this team. I like to think that giving Merriman a small contract extension as a revival project isn't going to make guys who have been working hard feel slighted. They have been reportedly in talks with both Poz and Whitner about extensions(and gave Kelsay an extension). So its not like they took a stance of not until the end of the season and then suddenly gave Merriman his deal. I don't completely agree with you, 89. The team has shown its pecking order/priority list. They approached Kelsay for an extension and got it done. They then approached Whitner and couldn't get a deal done. They then approached Merriman and got a deal done. It's been stated for the record that Poz has not yet been approached. Superficial reporting has explained this as being a consequence of the so-called 30% rule. But the 30% rule isn't the obstacle that it's made out to be. The rule is actually easy to circumvent because it applies only to base salary. It's circumvented by loading the compensation into the signing bonus. The Niners recently did this with Patrick Willis. So, in light of this timeline, it's not hard to imagine that there are hard feelings being felt by Donte Whitner and possibly also Poz. I personally don't care if there are but I'm addressing the assertion that these players wouldn't feel slighted. The truth is that Whitner and Poz could in fact feel slighted. Edited January 2, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I dont know why anyone on the board us upset with this. We talk about signing guys to contracts like this all the time and now the Bills did it. This is a business. Guys have to understand that, that is the NFL. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basskik11 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Bottom line: our defense in terrible. We need play makers-I still think Shawne has plenty of gas in the tank-he's been hurt but has a lot to prove. It's obvious we need guys in the front 7-...if we can get a guy like Shawne Merriman to make plays at the price they are paying-then this is a no brainer. The guys potential is thru the roof. He has been a star in the NFL and wants another taste of it. This is a solid move as it is a huge upgrade to our current LB corps. Let's go Bills...it's time to get righteous again! I'm sick of losing! ...and for the record...I say we let Whitner walk. We get more playmaking out of Byrd, Wilson, and Scott. I appreciate Donte for what he has done, but he was reach for us in the draft and hasn't been the game changer Levy thought he was. We can sign another LB/DT/DE/LT for what he is asking...Just my opinion! Go Bills! I like it too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In theory, I get why Buddy would extend Merriman. Our pass rush is still developing and we are re-signing a veteran who has potential. However, in practice, we have a long list of unrestricted free agents who are wondering what their future will be. Granted, we won't be re-signing everyone, but it definitely sends a message to guys in the locker room when Buddy re-signs someone who has yet to see the field. I think it says its better to be one of Buddy's guys instead of a Bills veteran. I wasn't a fan of the Kelsay contract, but at least it said if you work hard on the field, you will be rewarded. You're trying to hard to find things to not like. You can just 'not like' it without reaching so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I can only speak for myself, and I know if another team had signed him for this exact contract, I would be cursing the front office. Just imagine it was the Pats that did this. We'd be homicidal right now. Count me as one of those giddy about seeing what Merriman can do next year. Perhaps it won't amount to much, but like many others have stated, it's worth the risk. Well said ... The guy is only 26 whish is "prime" in NFL age. Assuming he gets healthy I can't imagine he would be any worse than anyone we have on the roster right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well said ... The guy is only 26 whish is "prime" in NFL age. Assuming he gets healthy I can't imagine he would be any worse than anyone we have on the roster right now. I agree 100%.....Now, draft one more very good DL,and 3 LB's....then we will be well on our way of becoming a decent D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPhan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In theory, I get why Buddy would extend Merriman. Our pass rush is still developing and we are re-signing a veteran who has potential. ...I wasn't a fan of the Kelsay contract... Yeah, either were any Bills fans who were old enough to remember watching: Earl Edwards, Big Ben Williams, Art Still, Bruce Smith, Phil Hanson, Marcellus Wiley or Aaron Schobel play Kelsay's position better then he ever will! As for your "wrong message" take, you have to be kidding right? Lest you forget, there are 32 teams in the NFL, and our beloved 2010 Bills have held down the "coveted" number 32 ranking against the run all season. Just who exactly on defense, other then Kyle Williams, are we supposed to care as to what kind of message they receive from Buddy Nix right re-signing anyone different on defense, right about now? If they are lucky enough to still be on the team after the draft, every one of them should be thinking; THANK GOD Buddy is re-signing a player of Merriman's skill and experience to HELP us out in 2011! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Whem employees (and thats what the players are...paid employees of the Bills) who work for a poorly performing company and see "new blood" that has performed well elsewhere come in, even when it has some baggage, it can and should ONLY get them excited. They should not then question their own pay, or what it might mean to their future salary and compensation. I speak from experience. Im sure others here do, too. You see that new blood walk in the door, especially when you know it has the inside ability to really improve things, and you get turned on. And know what? If the first thing a player does when a someone of Merriman's pedigree comes in is to think of themselves, selfishly....thats not the kind of player the Bills want. Edited January 2, 2011 by RkFast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 It's been stated for the record that Poz has not yet been approached. Superficial reporting has explained this as being a consequence of the so-called 30% rule. But the 30% rule isn't the obstacle that it's made out to be. The rule is actually easy to circumvent because it applies only to base salary. It's circumvented by loading the compensation into the signing bonus. The Niners recently did this with Patrick Willis. This was interesting. What I had heard is they had load the compensation as guaranteed money up front into the signing bonus. It's very understandable teams wouldn't want to do that This article points out it doesn't all have to go up front: Willis Salary It also makes a difference if they have "option bonus proration" language in their contract. Anyone know? A $15.5 million signing bonus is still a healthy chunk of change upfront. I haven't seen enough of the '9ers to have an opinion on the overall quality of Willis play, but 15 sacks in 4 years and missing only one game seems significantly different than Poz 3 sacks and missing enough games some have speculated Posluzney is Polish for "made of glass". Returning to the OP: I think the message sent by the Merriman extension is "what have you done for us lately?". That a multiple pro-bowl player and former huge impact player can be signed for so little after an injury I think highlights NFL = Not For Long and players better work hard for themselves and make a name while they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I agree with you...what kind of messege did it really send, we want to do whatever it takes to win? Isn't that the kind of GM you want? Is this really "doing whatever it takes to win"? Signing a guy who's career to this point was steroid dependent and who, for 3 years, has been either injured or recovering from injury? I prefer Buddy's guys to Bills veterans. Buddy's vets? Cornell Green? Yup...you nailed it. We need a GM who wants to win and not one who wants players to feel secure on a 4-and-11 team. Is that why Buddy resigned Kelsay to that contract? I can only speak for myself, and I know if another team had signed him for this exact contract, I would be cursing the front office. Just imagine it was the Pats that did this. We'd be homicidal right now.Count me as one of those giddy about seeing what Merriman can do next year. Perhaps it won't amount to much, but like many others have stated, it's worth the risk. Actually, if they did, the laughing here would deafening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Actually, if they did, the laughing here would deafening. You know that's not true. This board is filled with people who will criticize any move the Bills do or do not make. Seriously, there is a thread about Kyle Orton. If the Pats signed, you'd be one of the major mouthpieces criticizing the Bills about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 You know that's not true. This board is filled with people who will criticize any move the Bills do or do not make. Seriously, there is a thread about Kyle Orton. If the Pats signed, you'd be one of the major mouthpieces criticizing the Bills about it. Go easy on Mr. WEO. He is a bitter Bills fan and I can't knock him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 It a good signing, we shouldn't be worried about sending a message to a bunch of 4-10 type players. It maybe the wrong message today, but come opening day next September and Merriman come out of the tunnel at the Ralph doing his little dance and the 74,000 go ape sh#t it will be the right message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I can only speak for myself, and I know if another team had signed him for this exact contract, I would be cursing the front office. Just imagine it was the Pats that did this. We'd be homicidal right now. Count me as one of those giddy about seeing what Merriman can do next year. Perhaps it won't amount to much, but like many others have stated, it's worth the risk. Perfect post and defuses all the other negative posts completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) I don't completely agree with you, 89. The team has shown its pecking order/priority list. They approached Kelsay for an extension and got it done. They then approached Whitner and couldn't get a deal done. They then approached Merriman and got a deal done. It's been stated for the record that Poz has not yet been approached. Superficial reporting has explained this as being a consequence of the so-called 30% rule. But the 30% rule isn't the obstacle that it's made out to be. The rule is actually easy to circumvent because it applies only to base salary. It's circumvented by loading the compensation into the signing bonus. The Niners recently did this with Patrick Willis. So, in light of this timeline, it's not hard to imagine that there are hard feelings being felt by Donte Whitner and possibly also Poz. I personally don't care if there are but I'm addressing the assertion that these players wouldn't feel slighted. The truth is that Whitner and Poz could in fact feel slighted. Perhaps it's not wise to give a player who is hurt every season a contract extension that is made up of mostly guaranteed money. For Poz it would require a larger portion of signing bonus money as his rookie contract is considerably less than Willis' due to draft position. Buddy's vets? Cornell Green? Didn't think he was on the team anymore. Edited January 2, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I don't think this sends a wrong message to a locker room filled with players on the 32nd ranked defense in the league. I think it sends the perfect message. We will make changes and we MUST get better. From what I can tell this is a low risk contract that can payoff big if Merriman gets healthy and returns to form. Jerry Sullivan has his usual negative slant ... he reports it as a $5.5M contract but in order for Merriman to make that much he will have to perform at a level we have not see out of a Bills LB since we first acquired Takeo Spikes. Someone mentioned that Poz has not been approached yet and that the Bills are far apart with Whitner, so some Bills veterans "know were they stand". True. There is nothing wrong with that either. Note: Since this is the Bills we are talking about, I just hope they do not pass up an opportunity draft a top DE/OLB because of this signing. It is very possible that Merriman will not be able to come back to his old form. I view this as a luxuary signing with high reward and low risk. Pass rush is still our nunber one weakness and the Bills cannot look at this signing as adequately addressing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Perhaps it's not wise to give a player who is hurt every season a contract extension that is made up of mostly guaranteed money. For Poz it would require a larger portion of signing bonus money as his rookie contract is considerably less than Willis' due to draft position. I don't disagree with you Ghost and what you say is true. The higher a player is drafted usually means he has a higher base salary and so it's easier to increase his compensation in the form of increased base salary. But regardless of the further discussion that you and Hopeful have posted on the 30% rule, my submission remains the same: if a team wants to circumvent the rule, they can. If Poz was playing at an elite level, you can bet the Bills would be doing everything in their power to circumvent the rule and sign him. I think it's a fabrication that the rule is standing in the way of a contract extension for him. I think the actual case is that the decision makers do not view Poz as a long term answer for this team. Edited January 2, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 he isnt. And i think he is seeing that by the lack of effort in the FO to hold him. "poz" I do not think the signing of Merriman at that price is anything but a good business risk. And as posted, it sends the message we are going to win and we are going to put the players on the field that we think will accomplish that. Very exciting season and look forward to next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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