Bills Draft History - The Price For Shaheed

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Max Fischer said:

I like Shaheed, and he may have been an upgrade, but I'm not sure he was worth a 4th and 5th as a rental. It's pretty steep, especially if he isn't a proven difference-maker. 

He’s a proven difference maker 

[VW82]

44 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Here's the thing. Go look at any week of any game we have played. Check out the targets for any WR not named Shakir. It's nauseating. 

 

Early in the season Coleman had a good amount, but those have been scaled back. Now it leads to a chicken or the egg type question. Do the outside WR on this team not get targets because of the offense, or does the offense not scheme the throws to the outside due to the WRS?

 

You've constructed two false dichotomies here: 1. WR targets being result of scheme vs. talent (i.e. what about injuries, or TEs/RBs operating as WRs???); 2. (presumably) that we need more WR targets/production to win at the highest levels. I reject both premises.    

 

Further, I'd argue that that if our goal was to mortgage the future to win this year, we'd have sold out to replace Hoecht and Oliver. Those injuries are devastating to our SB chances, and yet no one is really talking about them which to me says a lot about priorities of the "moar wr talent" crowd.   

Edited 16 hours ago by VW82

[SCBills]

4th and a 5th is steep 

 

I’m probably more interested in seeing Moore/Davis play more outside over Keon than pulling the trigger on that for trade for Shaheed. 

[Cray51]

15 minutes ago, Pete said:

He’s a proven difference maker 

Is he through?  He has been a #3/4 his entire career.  This year he is getting fed targets, but I wouldn't call him a difference maker.

 

He is worse than Josh Palmer in almost every core stat.  He wouldn't be a slot guy over Shakir.  So you are upgrading from Coleman to Shaheed.  Is that really worth the investment?

 

If it was a 5th only, sure.  But I wouldn't give up a 3rd to bring him in.

[MikePJ76]

Two picks for Shaheed is an easy no.  Jax paid that for myers because they had like 12 or 13 picks or something crazy like that.

 

The best asset Shaheed would have brought to the team, and the team needs it, is his return abilites.  By having him as an active wr and the return man the team could cut codrington.  Then on gameday Shaheed just plays that role and no one else does.  That can give you an extra player somewhere else like DT or CB where the team has constant injuries.  Codrington has been inactive a lot I think for that reason alone.

 

I will say though Ray Davis looked very good returning kicks sunday and I bet he does it again this week unless Cook is inactive or something.

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

This is exactly what I have been saying during all the "go trade for Shaheed" stuff this season.  We have already seen this OC not use MVS or Harty last year in that stretch the defense role when they in fact filled similar roles to Shaheed in NO and that was what the point of them being here was supposed to be.  This year we have Samuel (4.31 forty) and Moore (4.35 forty) not have their speed used much to open up down field again.  

 

I think one of the biggest changes Brady brought to the offense was his realization that the deep ball shots are not Allens strong suit.  He wasn't wrong, but I also think he has a bit over corrected here too by taking it almost completely out.  But none the less, I think a gadget type one dimensional WR was less on their radar as that one thing isn't really what Allen excels at, they wanted a legit WR1 who can be a threat deep but also be a playmaker all over the field. 

 

Despite some of the heat some are giving Beane, I don't really think there is much to criticize Beane on here as all the buzz was that he was active on trying to get one, but it takes 2 to tango.  The only really big ticket that got traded that was at a position we really needed the help at was Quinnen, but many reports have come out that AFCE teams were told they were not interested on trading within the division.  Which is a pretty easy thing to assume and believe too, especially Bills and NE who seem set still a long time to be tough with the QB situations locked down.

 

The best thing that came out of this trade deadline was all the stuff coming out about Beane being actively calling on legit WR1 type options. Gives me hope that this offseason and draft it will be a top priority and hopefully we see them either land one in FA/Trade (no idea who is going to be available) or aggressive in getting one in the draft, including moving up to do so.

I think you summed it up well Alpha.  (You usually bring a voice of reason to the party.)  That being said it falls on Joe Brady (who I am not particularly fond of as a play caller) to make our vertical passing game go.  Be it any of our receivers (other than Keon-because he can not catch any ball while being covered down field) named Moore Samuel Kincaid Shavers Palmer or Knox, heck even Hawes, he needs to scheme up plays for Josh to hit relatively deep down the field.  We are not going to the Super Bowl if we can not improve on that part of our offense. 

[folz]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

He’s a proven difference maker 

 

Nice highlights, good player. But not sure what you mean by proven difference maker. How are you defining that?

 

Also, the video says '25 highlights, but it is at least '24 and '25 (based on the teams shown in the video). Provided, Shaheed only played 6 games in '24 due to injury.

 

But this season, as far as deep shots go, Shaheed has three (20+ receptions) for 26, 39, and 87 yards in 9 games.

 

In 8 games:

Shakir has four for 20, 26, 43, and 54 yards.

Palmer has four for 23, 32, 32, and 45 yards.

Moore has three for 28, 30, and 31 yards.

Coleman has two for 20 and 25 yards.

Kincaid has nine for 20, 20, 20, 22, 23, 23, 23, 28, and 47.

Knox and Hawes have two combined for 29 and 30 yards.

 

I'm just not sure what he would have added really. Are you calling him a difference maker because of the handful of deep shots in the video, or because he has proven himself consistently in crunch time of big games or when his QB is desperate, or whatever (two very different things). 

 

There were 5 deep shots in the video (bombs). And even if the video is just '24 and '25 (and not his whole career), that is 15 games played. So, an average of 1 deep shot every three games. If we make it to the Super Bowl, that would most likely be three playoff games. Is that one bomb in the playoffs something that he can provide that one of our other players can not? And would that one bomb be the difference in us making and/or winning a Super Bowl? I'm not so sure. 

 

I would have been in on adding receiver help if it was an obvious upgrade to what we have. That is what people are really clamoring for. A true #1 that can come up big in crunch time for Josh. I don't think Shaheed is that guy, so just not worth the price for a rental, imo.

Edited 13 hours ago by folz

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

This offense doesn't use its WRs. He's a bit of a waste here. 

What we needed was a true #1 who can win one on ones. Those aren't ready available mid-season. 

none of which were traded yesterday. 

[Big Turk]

I look at it and say would Brady have used Shaheed's skillset to make it worthwhile?  Probably not.

[Pete]

36 minutes ago, folz said:

 

Nice highlights, good player. But not sure what you mean by proven difference maker. How are you defining that?

 

Also, the video says '25 highlights, but it is at least '24 and '25 (based on the teams shown in the video). Provided, Shaheed only played 6 games in '24 due to injury.

 

But this season, as far as deep shots go, Shaheed has three (20+ receptions) for 26, 39, and 87 yards in 9 games.

 

In 8 games:

Shakir has four for 20, 26, 43, and 54 yards.

Palmer has four for 23, 32, 32, and 45 yards.

Moore has three for 28, 30, and 31 yards.

Coleman has two for 20 and 25 yards.

Kincaid has nine for 20, 20, 20, 22, 23, 23, 23, 28, and 47.

Knox and Hawes have two combined for 29 and 30 yards.

 

I'm just not sure what he would have added really. Are you calling him a difference maker because of the handful of deep shots in the video, or because he has proven himself consistently in crunch time of big games or when his QB is desperate, or whatever (two very different things). 

 

There were 5 deep shots in the video (bombs). And even if the video is just '24 and '25 (and not his whole career), that is 15 games played. So, an average of 1 deep shot every three games. If we make it to the Super Bowl, that would most likely be three playoff games. Is that one bomb in the playoffs something that he can provide that one of our other players can not? And would that one bomb be the difference in us making and/or winning a Super Bowl? I'm not so sure. 

 

I would have been in on adding receiver help if it was an obvious upgrade to what we have. That is what people are really clamoring for. A true #1 that can come up big in crunch time for Josh. I don't think Sheered is that guy, so just not worth the price for a rental, imo.

For one, Shaheed gets separation quickly for those 3rd and 5.

 

2nd- Coleman leads Bills WRs in snaps.  Shaheed would take a chunk of those snaps, and be more productive.

 

3rd- just Shaheed lining up, teams back up.  Shaheed gets respect.  No other Bills WRs get respect.

 

4-defensive TDs and return TDs are difference makers by definition.

 

5-Rasheed would improve our returners on special teams.  Coddrington could be cut, for a more useful player 

 

6-electricity 

 

[HappyDays]

I think what happened is Beane has decided Gabe Davis is going to be our field stretcher as soon as he's active. He didn't see Shaheed as so much better than Davis to be worth a 4th and 5th. Beane wanted a true X and nothing else. He tried getting Ridley but couldn't close the deal. Once that fell through there were no other options.

[Coach Tuesday]

Shaheed also probably wanted to go play in an offense he was familiar with - he's in a contract year, playing for his former OC helps him ensure he finishes strong and gets paid.  As opposed to languishing in the Moore-Samuel mid receiver rotation waiting for Brady to call 1-2 deep shots per game.  

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Shaheed isn’t good. It’s truly that simple. The price means very little because the Bills are probably smart enough to realize he’s just guy. Oh did you see how little Seattle gave up for him? Yeah…because he isn’t good.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

24 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Shaheed isn’t good. It’s truly that simple. The price means very little because the Bills are probably smart enough to realize he’s just guy. Oh did you see how little Seattle gave up for him? Yeah…because he isn’t good.

He’s definitely a bit raw still…seems a little odd for a midseason rental. Seahawks were in better shape to do that with him having history with their OC

 

i think if he had a full year learning the system he could be a difference maker but that wasn’t really the situation 

 

if he wasn’t a bad run blocker I think the bills might’ve rolled the dice on him hoping he picked some things up fast enough 

 

could end up being a good player for sure I just don’t think he’s at the wr iq level to pick up a new offense in a half season yet 

Edited 13 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[HardyBoy]

I feel like beane has chased the draft picks he traded away and it impacted the draft a lot...also, it adds a ton of uncertainty to the draft prep process...they know they are likely going to trade down to get a third back, but I have to imagine that makes all the prep prior to the draft, all the mock drafts and scenarios completely hypothetical. 

 

Yeah there's a ton of uncertainty in the draft as it is, but essentially going in not knowing where you're picking at all because your plan is to get more picks early...I think there is a plus side to this in terms of certainty if you do nothing and trade wise, and they don't have to do anything trade wise to chase picks 

[Alphadawg7]

43 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

I think you summed it up well Alpha.  (You usually bring a voice of reason to the party.)  That being said it falls on Joe Brady (who I am not particularly fond of as a play caller) to make our vertical passing game go.  Be it any of our receivers (other than Keon-because he can not catch any ball while being covered down field) named Moore Samuel Kincaid Shavers Palmer or Knox, heck even Hawes, he needs to scheme up plays for Josh to hit relatively deep down the field.  We are not going to the Super Bowl if we can not improve on that part of our offense. 

 

Also agree with all this too.  I was a big fan of Brady the first season and a half, but I have been more critical of him this season as I think he has too often not made the right adjustments or just called bizarre plays in key situations.  The offense has been better, but we still need to utilize the guys on the roster better.  I loved what I saw against KC with finally using the TE's in a more attacking manner.  But we still need to get more use out of the speed Samuel and Moore can bring, and I think the need to pick one and focus on getting them involved. 

 

Then they are completely using Keon wrong, he either Mack Hollins 2.0 blocking decoy or they are sending him too often on routes he isn't going to win enough on.  Move him around, get him going using the crossers, slants, and comebacks he has shown he can win on.  Enough back shoulder throws down the sideline while he is blanketed.

 

2 hours ago, folz said:

 

Nice highlights, good player. But not sure what you mean by proven difference maker. How are you defining that?

 

Also, the video says '25 highlights, but it is at least '24 and '25 (based on the teams shown in the video). Provided, Shaheed only played 6 games in '24 due to injury.

 

But this season, as far as deep shots go, Shaheed has three (20+ receptions) for 26, 39, and 87 yards in 9 games.

 

In 8 games:

Shakir has four for 20, 26, 43, and 54 yards.

Palmer has four for 23, 32, 32, and 45 yards.

Moore has three for 28, 30, and 31 yards.

Coleman has two for 20 and 25 yards.

Kincaid has nine for 20, 20, 20, 22, 23, 23, 23, 28, and 47.

Knox and Hawes have two combined for 29 and 30 yards.

 

I'm just not sure what he would have added really. Are you calling him a difference maker because of the handful of deep shots in the video, or because he has proven himself consistently in crunch time of big games or when his QB is desperate, or whatever (two very different things). 

 

There were 5 deep shots in the video (bombs). And even if the video is just '24 and '25 (and not his whole career), that is 15 games played. So, an average of 1 deep shot every three games. If we make it to the Super Bowl, that would most likely be three playoff games. Is that one bomb in the playoffs something that he can provide that one of our other players can not? And would that one bomb be the difference in us making and/or winning a Super Bowl? I'm not so sure. 

 

I would have been in on adding receiver help if it was an obvious upgrade to what we have. That is what people are really clamoring for. A true #1 that can come up big in crunch time for Josh. I don't think Shaheed is that guy, so just not worth the price for a rental, imo.

 

Excellent post.  This should be pinned in any thread talking about the lore of Shaheed.  Its crazy how some people have inflated what he is and has been around here, and more importantly what they think he would be here.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

I think what happened is Beane has decided Gabe Davis is going to be our field stretcher as soon as he's active. He didn't see Shaheed as so much better than Davis to be worth a 4th and 5th. Beane wanted a true X and nothing else. He tried getting Ridley but couldn't close the deal. Once that fell through there were no other options.

 

Agreed, and honestly I would prefer Gabe Davis to Shaheed who at least also brings elite blocking to a team who very much is designed to utilize that both in the quick passing game and the run game.  Plus IMO Gabe is the more accomplished WR with a better deep game and rapport with Allen and cost us nothing to add to the roster.  I dont love Gabe as a WR1 or WR2, but as a guy mixing in with this group, he still has a chance to bring value to the team if his knee stuff is behind him.

Edited 12 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[Max Fischer]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

He’s a proven difference maker 

 

Well, maybe, but I'd like to see evidence other than a Seahawk hype video.  The Bills could do the same for Keon. 

[DuckyBoys]

I'm not giving up hope on Palmer to help stretch the defense or at least clear out space for Kincaid and co underneath

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

I'm not giving up hope on Palmer to help stretch the defense or at least clear out space for Kincaid and co underneath

I’m not giving up hope he does something, anything, this year. The fans all forget…and for good reason….that he was our big WR upgrade this offseason. Let’s all hope it kicks in for him in the second half of the season. Fingers crossed 

Edited 10 hours ago by SoCal Deek