story going around-Bills run D this year is worst in the NFL since 1934 (Cincinnati Reds)

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea it is not just player driven. Don't get me wrong there are personnel issues. But the DC is over his head, things that have not been issues in the first seven years of this regime are suddenly issues with this DC. I can count on one hand in the Frazier years the number of snaps where the Bills D was not lined up properly or confused pre snap.  It has happened at least once every single game this year. 

 

And before anyone accuses me of it I am not excusing McDermott. He hired Babich as a rookie DC (a pretty sought after one but a rookie DC all the same) and he is a defensive Head Coach who establishes the basis for this scheme and when it is his reputation and possibly job on the line he has to step in and fix it. 

 

But the defense is woeful at the moment. The first half display in Atlanta was pathetic. It was not NFL worthy. That cannot happen. 

Bro. Its Burgundy time in the states. 

[DrDawkinstein]

31 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Poyer will really bring the flash 

 

Flashing his AARP card to get a discount on his turkey burger maybe

[Bookie Man]

Welp always next year.

[Slack_in_MA]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And I am not trying to avoid directly answering the question but bear with me:

 

1. I do think the schematic fundamentals of the defense are solid, but I don't think they are being executed solidly and when I say executed I do not just mean by the players, I mean by the coaches too. I think the playcalling is bad and I have seen more of the Bills not being lined up properly and confused pre-snap this year than I have in the last 5 or 6 years combined. So I don't think it is just about swapping a few players out, it is about the way the entire operation is being coached and played. 

 

2. That said, if McDermott cannot get this fixed by the end of the season then they have to make a change. You cannot be a defensive minded Head Coach on a team that is supposed to contend and have a defense that is this fundamentally broken. This isn't like some playoff failures against top teams, this is much more intrinsic to the way the Bills are playing defense. So if they can't fix it then they need to blow it up and that starts at the top. 

Joe Marino's guest (can't recall the name) said as much the other day. For a few years the Bills have actually encouraged other teams to run, however, they were able to execute that strategy. Now, they're not executing it due to do a number of factors, and it's backfiring.

Edited 11 hours ago by Slack_in_MA

[BobbyC81]

14 hours ago, Sweats said:

The word is out........we can't stop the run, our D is soft, can't get pressure on the QB, WR's hunker down in the soft spots, etc. 

 

Our D is getting progressively worse from year to year, but hey, better keep our HC Defensive guru around to fix it and we better keep wasting our resources in draft picks and cast-offs. It's been 9 years and counting, like what in the good name of **** is he waiting for?!?

 

13 seconds should have been the end of it..........that's all i have to say about that

So, do they purposely go for these castoffs because they may be more willing to play this rotational scheme?

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Didn’t the team bring in other defensive “experts” this year too?  Seems like they’re trying to install different types of defensive packages mixed in with the traditional McD Defense, and nobody knows where they actually need to be.

 

They brought Ryan Neilsen in, yea. Allegedly to help with their pressure packages.

[folz]

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Im not saying our defense is good. In fact I’ve been shredding this team… but 

 

Lamar/henry

achane

Kamara

bijan
 

then the jets/pats aren’t slouches with decent backs and mobile QBs. 
 

the problem being several of those teams don’t rank well in rushing as they are usually playing out of negative scripts and are forced to pass. 
 

instead we invited them all to run on us all game long by letting them hang. Targeting our weakest link with their strongest assets. 
 

it’s just not complimentary football to limit drives and shorten the games with this roster. We need to win 38-27 and have a bad scoring defense that can create a turnover or stop by harassing the passer one dimensionally 

 

I was kind of thinking along the same lines. No question the run defense has been horrible and needs to be fixed (I do think it should get at least somewhat better as the year rolls on), but where/when have they been bad and why.

 

The Bills actually held the Jets and Pats both below their season team rush averages and Rhamondre Stevenson had his worst showing of the year, while Breece Hall had his 2nd worst showing on the year (though Justin Fields added some yards) vs. the Bills. So, the run defense was pretty good in these games (via very general statistics).

 

Vs. Miami, the Bills did allow the Phins to top their season average, but the run defense wasn't awful. Achane had only his 4th best showing (of 7 games). 

 

Then there were the other three games:

BAL: Derrick Henry and Lamar Jackson both had their best rushing totals on the year. Buffalo gave up 238 yards, more than double Baltimore's season average (of course, Lamar has missed a couple of games now too). The next closest defenses to allow Baltimore a lot of rushing yards were K.C. who gave up 166 rush yards and the LA Rams who gave up 179 rush yards to the Ravens.

 

NO: Kamara had his second best game of the year vs. the Bills. And Rattler and Kendre Miller both had their best rushing efforts on the year (adding a combined 114 rush yards). Bills allowed the Saints to rush well over their season average for their best production on the year. 

 

ATL: Bijan also had his best game of the year vs. the Bills. He did almost all of the damage for the Falcons. They too had significantly more rushing yards vs. the Bills than their season average. Only one team has allowed more rushing yards to the Falcons than the Bills (Minnesota).

 

 

NoSaint does have an interesting point, this by no means excuses the defense (they gave up the yards, they tackled poorly, etc.), but in each of the three games that the run defense got torched, the offense kind of stalled after their first score(s). The 2nd quarter has been a dead zone for the offense this year. In their last three games, they have scored 3 points total (combined) in the 2nd quarter. Over 4 of their games (Bal, NO, All, and NE), they have scored 9 points combined in the 2nd quarter (2.25 points on average):

 

vs. Baltimore: After scoring their first TD, the Bills offense had 4 possessions with 21 plays over 28:31 minutes of game time and came away with 6 points (2 punts/2 FGs). While over the same span, Baltimore scored 27 points, taking a large lead and being able to just run the ball sitting on the lead.

 

vs. New Orleans: After two TDs on their first two drives, the Bills offense went cold. They had 4 possessions with 15 plays over 19 minutes of game time and the results were: 0 points---Interception, 2 punts, end of half. This allowed NO to stick around and continue to run the ball. 

 

vs. Atlanta: After an initial TD on their first drive, the Bills offense went 5 possessions with 19 plays, over 22 minutes of game time and came away with 0 points (4 punts and an interception). This allowed Atlanta to take the lead and continue to pound the ball.

 

So, the offense probably should hold a little blame as well. Complimentary football.

 

Also, how much of it is just that we struggle with good/big backs (playing nickel/being under-sized): Henry, Robinson, Kamara, Miller.

How much do running QBs weigh in to our issues: Lamar, Rattler, and Fields all got their yards.

 

How much is defensive personnel and execution (again, under-sized or bad tackling) part of the problem?

 

Not really coming to any conclusions or solutions here, just trying to take at a broader picture of it. What do you guys think? Could there also be a bit of attitude involved? After a 4-0 start did the Bills think they could kind of coast through the regular season? The whole team looked flat vs. NO, and they couldn't seem to match the Falcons intensity in Atlanta. And those were two of our three poor showings in run defense (and obviously, overall as a team). I don't know, but the bye week couldn't have come at a better time for either some tweaking of scheme and/or personnel and maybe an attitude/intensity adjustment.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by folz

[Sojourner]

3 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

So, do they purposely go for these castoffs because they may be more willing to play this rotational scheme?

Money plays a factor. Can’t pay the guys who hit the free agent market. 
Milton Williams, Kinlaw or Johnathon Allen would have been a nice addition. 

[FireChans]

15 hours ago, Chaos said:

for discussion purposes, lets assume "blowing it up" means a new DC with control over scheme, playing calling and personnel.   In that scenario how many current players on the Bills defense would likely be players on the defense will the new DC likely want to retain? (he might be stuck with all of them)

 

 

 

It’s pretty easy to do things differently with the same players and get different results.

 

the 2013 Bills Pettine defense had a lot of problems the 2014 Bills Schwartz defense fixed with scheme and responsibility changing. 
 

I would say that 90% of our defense was the same that next year.

 

Sometimes that’s the responsibility. Nigel Bradham had notorious tunnel vision. He was a lot like Dorian Williams tbh. He could not read and react to save his life. He struggled in 2013 and then Schwartz simplified his responsibilities and let him attack downhill and he looked MUCH better. Just like we did with Dorian 2 years ago in the Ravens game. 
 

Big Baller Beane limited our flexibility by paying everyone on defense but that doesn’t mean we need to cut everybody and start over.

13 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

People will ignore McDermott's resume with the bills and what he is done.. the top rankings he has put out 

 

And they're going to try to run him out of town and he's going to be like Andy Reid and win a super bowl with his next team 

 

FYI Sean McDermott has the best statistical defense in a super bowl with a losing team.. they absolutely with any competent quarterback play because Cam Newton was lost.. should have easily won the super bowl 

 

Sean McDermott's defense was on a different level

I’ll be very happy for McD if he has success elsewhere and learns from his first job like Reid did.

 

but the moral of the story is that Philly won 2 without Reid. And they got 1 first before Reid ever got close.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, folz said:

 

I was kind of thinking along the same lines. No question the run defense has been horrible and needs to be fixed (I do think it should get at least somewhat better as the year rolls on), but where/when have they been bad and why.

 

The Bills actually held the Jets and Pats both below their season team rush averages and Rhamondre Stevenson had his worst showing of the year, while Breece Hall had his 2nd worst showing on the year (though Justin Fields added some yards) vs. the Bills. So, the run defense was pretty good in these games (via very general statistics).

 

Vs. Miami, the Bills did allow the Phins to top their season average, but the run defense wasn't awful. Achane had only his 4th best showing (of 7 games). 

 

Then there were the other three games:

BAL: Derrick Henry and Lamar Jackson both had their best rushing totals on the year. Buffalo gave up 238 yards, more than double Baltimore's season average (of course, Lamar has missed a couple of games now too). The next closest defenses to allow Baltimore a lot of rushing yards were K.C. who gave up 166 rush yards and the LA Rams who gave up 179 rush yards to the Ravens.

 

NO: Kamara had his second best game of the year vs. the Bills. And Rattler and Kendre Miller both had their best rushing efforts on the year (adding a combined 114 rush yards). Bills allowed the Saints to rush well over their season average for their best production on the year. 

 

ATL: Bijan also had his best game of the year vs. the Bills. He did almost all of the damage for the Falcons. They too had significantly more rushing yards vs. the Bills than their season average. Only one team has allowed more rushing yards to the Falcons than the Bills (Minnesota).

 

 

NoSaint does have an interesting point, this by no means excuses the defense (they gave up the yards, they tackled poorly, etc.), but in each of the three games that the run defense got torched, the offense kind of stalled after their first score(s). The 2nd quarter has been a dead zone for the offense this year. In their last three games, they have scored 3 points total (combined) in the 2nd quarter. Over 4 of their games (Bal, NO, All, and NE), they have scored 9 points combined in the 2nd quarter (2.25 points on average):

 

vs. Baltimore: After scoring their first TD, the Bills offense had 4 possessions with 21 plays over 28:31 minutes of game time and came away with 6 points (2 punts/2 FGs). While over the same span, Baltimore scored 27 points, taking a large lead and being able to just run the ball sitting on the lead.

 

vs. New Orleans: After two TDs on their first two drives, the Bills offense went cold. They had 4 possessions with 15 plays over 19 minutes of game time and the results were: 0 points---Interception, 2 punts, end of half. This allowed NO to stick around and continue to run the ball. 

 

vs. Atlanta: After an initial TD on their first drive, the Bills offense went 5 possessions with 19 plays, over 22 minutes of game time and came away with 0 points (4 punts and an interception). This allowed Atlanta to take the lead and continue to pound the ball.

 

So, the offense probably should hold a little blame as well. Complimentary football.

 

Also, how much of it is just that we struggle with good/big backs (playing nickel/being under-sized): Henry, Robinson, Kamara, Miller.

How much do running QBs weigh in to our issues: Lamar, Rattler, and Fields all got their yards.

 

How much is defensive personnel and execution (again, under-sized or bad tackling) part of the problem?

 

Not really coming to any conclusions or solutions here, just trying to take at a broader picture of it. What do you guys think? Could there also be a bit of attitude involved? After a 4-0 start did the Bills think they could kind of coast through the regular season? The whole team looked flat vs. NO, and they couldn't seem to match the Falcons intensity in Atlanta. And those were two of our three poor showings in run defense (and obviously, overall as a team). I don't know, but the bye week couldn't have come at a better time for either some tweaking of scheme and/or personnel and maybe an attitude/intensity adjustment.

 

 

appreciate the added context to my simple gut reaction. 
 

honestly, the other (possibly) interesting piece is those couple explosive run plays from Henry and bijan. 
 

the truth is that everything after bishops missed tackle on bijan is some degree of “whatever” yardage.
 

Whether he missed that tackle 5 yards from the endzone or 500 didn’t change the quality of our defense at all - dude was gone. whether what happened after that moment was an extra 2 ypg on our average or an extra 8 ypg from that single missed tackle has some degree of being inconsequential to me. 
 

we have faced not terrible talents. Many of these teams are best designed to run.
 

We let them hang and run more than they should strategically.

 

We have allowed too many jailbreak plays. 
 

And yes, we are not good enough play in and play out
 

On the bright side, I think that we are just the normal kind of bottom 5 rush defenders, generally, and not worst since games were played in corn fields type of rush defense. I don’t feel like we are stuck in comparisons to dust bowl depression era teams but will just be around the bottom of the 2025 pack

 

and yes, the drum I’ve beat for quite some time seems to be coming home to roost:

 

complimentary football for this roster is playing with a lead. pulling out the stops in the first half of games is more important than we talk about. It reflects in a lot of places and it’s why I thought for 2 off seasons getting a receiver that forces the opposition to cover much more green space every play is the biggest priority imaginable. Back up the safeties. It protects Josh’s health, and it lets the defense play one dimensionally in the second half and not worry about anything but rushing the passer. 

[WinterSoldier17]

16 hours ago, Special K said:

it's bad when you cant stop the run better than a Baseball Team!!!😀

JJ JJ j no no no nnnñnn my

[DCofNC]

17 hours ago, Big Turk said:

It's interesting because typically the Bills aren't killed down to down as much as they get hurt with long runs that tend to inflate the numbers.

 

I'm not saying they have been great, but really it's more a few plays a game here and there that lead to huge averages versus constantly giving up big yards per carry.

The trouble is, those runs count.  Every year, we have big TDs given up by the run D.  How many times has Henry torched this team for 40+ yard TDs, it’s insane.  When a team does run well, the Bills have to sell out to stop the run and that opens everything else.  The Ravens losing to the Bills 2x in a row with complete collapse in one half or the other is just amazing to me.  Harbaugh and McD are two coaches that are living on reputation and deserve to be fired.